What AR15 cartridge is a worthwhile step up from 5.56?

[Camelfilter]

I have to go featureless (a weird abomination of half baked and fucked up work arounds) or run a fixed mag (compmag) that makes the gun unreliable and painfull to shoot and pisses off the RSO's since they have to be extra careful to make sure the gun is safe when calling a cold, safe range.

I had hopes that the Bruen decision would provide relief but the 9th Circus is ignoring it in the hopes that the Honorable Justice Clarence Thomas dies and that with a new Democratic SC justice they can go back to ignoring the Second Amendment.

Working distances would be halitosis range to 300ish yards where I am.

Ahh. Bummer.

300? Stick with what you already have that works well, given your constraints. Put savings towards shoring up stores both locations, as you would bunker up either location (your families/your folks). In about any event.

Anything else would simply be just interesting / because you can / because you want to. Which is totally fine!

 

[Camelfilter]

Thinking about your specific situation a little bit more.

Would a semiautomatic shotgun(s) be of benefit in the event you all were bunkered up in either home? Looks like you can "still" own extended tube shotguns.

In combination with your current AR platform. ie Current platform for helping with neighborhood watch (assume that's where you viewed 300yd nominal ranging ie not specifically from within home).

With shotgun (s) as a stopgap/repulse "hoard" from home/already on property/within 100yds?

 

[91Eunozs]

I disproved this already back from 2009-2012 with my 16” Grendel. It seemed like people were being reasonable and accurate when making those statements back then, and a lot of dudes simply read it and repeated it without ever checking. I never wanted a 16” Grendel, but that’s what I ended up with after trying to check out from Midway with a 20”, then an 18”. 16 and 24 were all that were left, so I put a 16” in the cart and checked out. Glad I did now, because it exposed a lot of the BS about Grendel not being capable or comparable from the same barrel lengths.

It would be fun to do a side-by-side with short barrels, since I’ve been shooting the 12” Grendel now for 7 years straight. I don’t see a perceptible difference between my 17.6”-18” Grendels, though I can show the minutiae on paper.

I’m not seeing any ballistic advantages to the 6.8 from 12” barrels. The 6.8 bullets bleed momentum really fast due to how they are shaped.

Both of them have the same basic case capacity and when you shoot the same bullet weights, they are within 20-40fps of each other, which is lost rapidly by the 6.8 out of the muzzle and surpassed by the more aerodynamic 6.5mms.

It just is what it is. The one bullet that makes the 6.8 SPC II behave more like a Grendel is the Berger 130gr Classic Hunter with .490 G1 BC, but you aren’t kicking it out fast. Hornady 6.8 bolt gun data with 130gr bullets loaded longer than AR-15 lengths at 2.355” COL is only doing 2300fps from a 16” barrel.

If you’re truly looking at a bug out from LA kind of scenario, I’d just build another 5.56…. Two is one, and one is none mentality. Start working on training, and other needs before running down the “other caliber” rabbit holes.

Edit: Or build your second lower up as a complete rifle in 5.56 so you have a spare, and then as funds allow, build different uppers in various calibers to suit your fancy.

— break, break —

Re: Intermediate calibers: 6.5 Grendel’s a great round…very popular with the pig hunters in my neck of the woods for a good reason: It just flat works.

That said, the 6.8 (in SPC-2 chambering) seems even more popular with the shooting professionals I know…folks who eradicate sounders of feral hogs for cattle ranchers, run helicopter tours, etc. Have had many, many conversations with them on the efficacy of various rounds, and the consensus is that the 6.8 works better…but honestly no real difference.

Pretty small sample size though, and localized to South Central Texas where the conditions may differ than your AO and needs.

6.5 G is an awesome round, but 6.8 works better if you get it past factory 6.8 loads and into 6.8 SPC-2 chamber pressures — assuming your barrel was made to do so of course. All 3 of mine are built to SPC-2 spec.

If 6.5G is more available in your AO, I’d go that route in a heartbeat. I was agonizing over the choice between 6.5 and 6.8 myself several years ago, and wound up going 6.8 purely because a colleague wanted to build one and we could get a discount by buying more barrels together…and he had a line on a deal from a guy getting out of the game, so we scored a pretty huge initial load of 6.8 ammo and once-fired brass.

The new kid on the block is 6 Maxx, with similar ballistics depending on bullet choice, and it uses the standard 5.56 bolt (300 Legend parent case). Seems great so far, but there are tradeoffs depending on bullet choice vs. case capacity. Not a lot of data on the 6 Maxx out there so far, but it seems like it works pretty damn well, albeit not as flexible as the 6.5/6.8 offerings currently on the market. If you roll your own, this could be the best answer yet for small frame AR intermediate cartridges

—

If you truly feel you must get an intermediate cartridge (and you’ll get no arguments from me on that approach, LoL, I love ‘em), I’d prioritize a round that takes the same bolt for parts commonality. My picks (in this order) would be:

1) 300BLK - Primarily use subsonic rounds; suppressed with a nice 30-cal can for HD and signature reduction. 300BLK is very popular (availability), uses the same bolt, and shines in the short range environment; it’s basically a perfect round inside 50 yards or so.

2) 6mm Maxx - Also uses a common bolt, and much better ballistics than 5.56 at longer distances; I’d probably build this one as a DMR type rifle with an 18” barrel.

3) Any of the other popular small frame intermediate rounds (6.5 G, 6.8 SPC, 6 ARC, 7.62x39, etc.) that take a different bolt face, and usually require caliber-specific magazines as well; I’d get whatever’s most available/popular in your AO.

 

[Franko]

Thinking about your specific situation a little bit more.

Would a semiautomatic shotgun(s) be of benefit in the event you all were bunkered up in either home? Looks like you can "still" own extended tube shotguns.

In combination with your current AR platform. ie Current platform for helping with neighborhood watch (assume that's where you viewed 300yd nominal ranging ie not specifically from within home).

With shotgun (s) as a stopgap/repulse "hoard" from home/already on property/within 100yds?

I thought about it but decided against it due to a few reasons:

1. Pistol grip and adjustable butt stock make a shotgun an illegal "assault weapon"; so compromised ergonomics
2. Recoil; in a pinch my mom could handle an AR15. No way is she running a 12 gauge.
3. Range; out parents front door (and that is where I will be bugging in) are two long straight streets so shotgun value is very limited. Neighbor on the backside is an ex-Marine who is good people and will make sure nobody jumps the back wall.

The AR15 seems like the perfect option.

 

[Camelfilter]

I thought about it but decided against it due to a few reasons:

1. Pistol grip and adjustable butt stock make a shotgun an illegal "assault weapon"; so compromised ergonomics
2. Recoil; in a pinch my mom could handle an AR15. No way is she running a 12 gauge.
3. Range; out parents front door (and that is where I will be bugging in) are two long straight streets so shotgun value is very limited. Neighbor on the backside is an ex-Marine who is good people and will make sure nobody jumps the back wall.

The AR15 seems like the perfect option.

No to pistol grip. Just a "normal" semiautomatic shotgun, 18" barrel, extended tube. Should be legal. NY reload to your AR...

Yah, not for your folks.

 

[Franko]

If you’re truly looking at a bug out from LA kind of scenario, I’d just build another 5.56…. Two is one, and one is none mentality. Start working on training, and other needs before running down the “other caliber” rabbit holes.

— break, break —

Re: Intermediate calibers: 6.5 Grendel’s a great round…very popular with the pig hunters in my neck of the woods for a good reason: It just flat works.

That said, the 6.8 (in SPC-2 chambering) seems even more popular with the shooting professionals I know…folks who eradicate sounders of feral hogs for cattle ranchers, run helicopter tours, etc. Have had many, many conversations with them on the efficacy of various rounds, and the consensus is that the 6.8 works better…but honestly no real difference.

Pretty small sample size though, and localized to South Central Texas where the conditions may differ than your AO and needs.

6.5 G is an awesome round, but 6.8 works better if you get it past factory 6.8 loads and into 6.8 SPC-2 chamber pressures — assuming your barrel was made to do so of course. All 3 of mine are built to SPC-2 spec.

If 6.5G is more available in your AO, I’d go that route in a heartbeat. I was agonizing over the choice between 6.5 and 6.8 myself several years ago, and wound up going 6.8 purely because a colleague wanted to build one and we could get a discount by buying more barrels together…and he had a line on a deal from a guy getting out of the game, so we scored a pretty huge initial load of 6.8 ammo and once-fired brass.

The new kid on the block is 6 Maxx, with similar ballistics depending on bullet choice, and it uses the standard 5.56 bolt (300 Legend parent case). Seems great so far, but there are tradeoffs depending on bullet choice vs. case capacity. Not a lot of data on the 6 Maxx out there so far, but it seems like it works pretty damn well, albeit not as flexible as the 6.5/6.8 offerings currently on the market. If you roll your own, this could be the best answer yet for small frame AR intermediate cartridges

—

If you truly feel you must get an intermediate cartridge (and you’ll get no arguments from me on that approach, LoL, I love ‘em), I’d consider a round that takes the same bolt for parts commonality. My picks (in this order):

1) 300BLK - Primarily use subsonic rounds; suppressed with a nice 30-cal can for HD and signature reduction. 300BLK is very popular (availability), and shines in the short range environment; it’s basically a perfect round inside 50 yards or so.

2) 6mm Maxx - Also uses a common bolt, and much better ballistics than 5.56 at longer distances; I’d probably build this one as a DMR type rifle with an 18” barrel.

3) Any of the other popular intermediate rounds (6.5 G, 6.8 SPC, 7.62x39, etc.) that take a different bolt face, and usually require caliber-specific magazines as well; I’d get whatever’s most available/popular in your AO.

I hear what you are saying completely. I now habitually buy spare parts whenever I order other things.

I was looking at intermediate cartridges just for a little extra punch. Availability isn't really an issue as I already make high precision ammo for bolt guns so building up a stockpile of 6.5G or 6.8SPC would be easy as buying components and putting in some work.

 

[Camelfilter]

Quite the quandary. SKS maybe?

Which could you reload faster? Your current AR setup, or an SKS off of stripper clips with practice?

 

[Franko]

Quite the quandary. SKS maybe?

Which could you reload faster? Your current AR setup, or an SKS off of stripper clips with practice?

Going with the AR15 because if the civil unrest scenario occurs the locked mag is coming out and I'll be living like the rest of you do everyday.

P.S. protect your freedoms from all those carpetbagging CA refugees because if you don't you'll be losing your gun rights as they all vote to turn your state into the hellhole they just fled...

 

[Camelfilter]

Going with the AR15 because if the civil unrest scenario occurs the locked mag is coming out and I'll be living like the rest of you do everyday.

P.S. protect your freedoms from all those carpetbagging CA refugees because if you don't you'll be losing your gun rights as they all vote to turn your state into the hellhole they just fled...

Ahh, now that makes a heck of a lot of sense! Gotcha!

-Hopefully you have made trips to free states for a few normal magazines. Don't need many, just enough. Not recommending you break any laws, nor asking if you did...

Copy on carpetbagger douchebags. We're in Oregon, they've been here a while.

 

[Downtown]

Here's a consideration. I don't know if the OP trains, competes or attends classes, but the cost of any round besides 5.56 makes those things expensive! Of course, one could take 5.56 to class and still keep a 6 something handy for burglars.

 

[Franko]

Here's a consideration. I don't know if the OP trains, competes or attends classes, but the cost of any round besides 5.56 makes those things expensive! Of course, one could take 5.56 to class and still keep a 6 something handy for burglars.

I currently practice with handguns and bolt actions. An AR15 specific course is going to happen but either an EMT or Stop the Bleed class will happen first once I get some breathing room.

 

[308pirate]

What other cartridges that fit in an AR15 provide enough of an increase in performance (increased range, dealing with wind drift better, terminal performance, etc.) over 5.56 that make them a worthy upgrade from 5.56? I know there are the duds like the .224 Valk and .22 Nosler and there are also newcomers like the 6 and 22 ARC as well as the 6.5 Grendel that has been quietly chugging along; but do any of them bring enough of an increase in performance to the table to be worth owning? Or is it just the case that if you want a meaningful performance upgrade step up to an AR10 in .308/6.5?

Thanks for reading and looking forward to your responses.

P.S. this question may have been triggered by reading about what you all are doing with your 6ARC and 6.5G rifles and having a spare lower just lying around...

Are you already shooting 75+ grain bullets with BCs in the low to mid 400s?

 

[diggler1833]

If you’re truly looking at a bug out from LA kind of scenario, I’d just build another 5.56…. Two is one, and one is none mentality. Start working on training, and other needs before running down the “other caliber” rabbit holes.

Edit: Or build your second lower up as a complete rifle in 5.56 so you have a spare, and then as funds allow, build different uppers in various calibers to suit your fancy.

— break, break —

Re: Intermediate calibers: 6.5 Grendel’s a great round…very popular with the pig hunters in my neck of the woods for a good reason: It just flat works.

That said, the 6.8 (in SPC-2 chambering) seems even more popular with the shooting professionals I know…folks who eradicate sounders of feral hogs for cattle ranchers, run helicopter tours, etc. Have had many, many conversations with them on the efficacy of various rounds, and the consensus is that the 6.8 works better…but honestly no real difference.

Pretty small sample size though, and localized to South Central Texas where the conditions may differ than your AO and needs.

6.5 G is an awesome round, but 6.8 works better if you get it past factory 6.8 loads and into 6.8 SPC-2 chamber pressures — assuming your barrel was made to do so of course. All 3 of mine are built to SPC-2 spec.

If 6.5G is more available in your AO, I’d go that route in a heartbeat. I was agonizing over the choice between 6.5 and 6.8 myself several years ago, and wound up going 6.8 purely because a colleague wanted to build one and we could get a discount by buying more barrels together…and he had a line on a deal from a guy getting out of the game, so we scored a pretty huge initial load of 6.8 ammo and once-fired brass.

The new kid on the block is 6 Maxx, with similar ballistics depending on bullet choice, and it uses the standard 5.56 bolt (300 Legend parent case). Seems great so far, but there are tradeoffs depending on bullet choice vs. case capacity. Not a lot of data on the 6 Maxx out there so far, but it seems like it works pretty damn well, albeit not as flexible as the 6.5/6.8 offerings currently on the market. If you roll your own, this could be the best answer yet for small frame AR intermediate cartridges

—

If you truly feel you must get an intermediate cartridge (and you’ll get no arguments from me on that approach, LoL, I love ‘em), I’d prioritize a round that takes the same bolt for parts commonality. My picks (in this order) would be:

1) 300BLK - Primarily use subsonic rounds; suppressed with a nice 30-cal can for HD and signature reduction. 300BLK is very popular (availability), uses the same bolt, and shines in the short range environment; it’s basically a perfect round inside 50 yards or so.

2) 6mm Maxx - Also uses a common bolt, and much better ballistics than 5.56 at longer distances; I’d probably build this one as a DMR type rifle with an 18” barrel.

3) Any of the other popular small frame intermediate rounds (6.5 G, 6.8 SPC, 6 ARC, 7.62x39, etc.) that take a different bolt face, and usually require caliber-specific magazines as well; I’d get whatever’s most available/popular in your AO.

Not aimed at you, just a caveat off of the meat in the middle of your post.

At one point in my 6.5G vs 6.8 internal 'which is better' test, I actually went through the previous 50 hog kills from each (I own and use both quite a bit), and wasted the time to count all of the hits it took to make pigs (both stationary and running) dead.

I think that the results were so close that there were like only 4 hits total between the two cartridges to get to the 50 kills...quite literally so insignificant that my impact locations probably caused more of a difference between the two than choice of cartridge. My final opinion is that either is great, and you aren't lacking when compared to the other (for hunting/defense).

I also found that bullet selection made a pretty decent impact on either decision. Stay away from the cheap stuff and your lethality goes up.

Then I took hours of data and wrapped it up in a shitty video where I made it look like I counted on my fingers and toes. F - my life.

* To make matters worse, I compared all of my shitty softpoint .308 kills to both the Grendel and 6.8...and found that the .308 with a 30 cent bullet stops/kills better than either of the others with 80 cent bullets. So I can kills pigs cheaper with the .308 too. Obviously the trade off is weight and recoil.

I definitely expect that the SPC and Grendel will continue to lose favor over the next decade. At least the Grendel bullets share commonality with some popular stuff. That's another reason why I'd stick with a 5.56 and heavy bullets, or jump into .308 (maybe 6.5 Creed) if I felt underpowered... either that or buy everything you think you'll need for life pretty soon.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

300 BO will do it too, but I have an irrational hatred of rebated rims.

Say what now?

 

[Franko]

Are you already shooting 75+ grain bullets with BCs in the low to mid 400s?

77gr TMK at them moment and might add some gold dots to the mix once the components become available.

 

[JS8588]

Say what now?

My gun-tism has an aversion to rebated rimmed cartridges. I'll go on a full-on autistic screed about how much I despise 300 BO, but I don’t want to derail OPs thread (and intellectually I understand it's a perfectly fine cartridge, I just have a visceral distaste for it.)

 

[phantasm]

I went full retard and m building a 6ARC for 600 yds and out.

 

[Franko]

I went full retard and m building a 6ARC for 600 yds and out.

That why I like this place we are all enablers when it comes to guns. Hope it works well for you. Feel free to share any gotchas that you have run into so I save money by learning from others rather than screwing it up myself first.

 

[reelserious]

I also have a 224 valkarie I built looking to shoot 90 grain bullets. It only shot 1 moa which was unacceptable to me but later i found out it shot 75 grain bullets at 3000 fps great. Like 1/4 moa great and i shoot it all the time out to 1000 yards. However even at 3000 fps the bullet doesn't do that much as far as energy transfer It is not impressive at all at 700-1000 hitting gongs Accurate but too light of a bullet so i stick to my 6.8 and call it a day

 

[Jsp556]

Say what now?

Not sure if he’s trolling but yeah. Lol

 

[flogxal]

I do not have a large frame yet. I am in the process of building one and want to see how the other half lives. I will admit that I am having second thoughts after reading about the 6 ARC and 6.5 Grendel here. One of the big reasons for the AR10 was that I am magazine limited in CA and thought more horsepower might be the way.

Most any decent shooter of live creatures I've encountered has suggested placement trumps horsepower, while at the same time, the more you shrink the horsepower the more precise the placement has to be.

Follow-up shots get more difficult the more energy the rifle has in its system.

These are the reasons why big-frame gas guns haven't ever appealed to me, other than as curiosity. Luckily people like LRRPF52 have gone down that road and can tell us their experiences.

I don't know diddly about CA laws and your rifle-related restrictions, but I don't think they would change my ideas said above.

 

[308pirate]

77gr TMK at them moment and might add some gold dots to the mix once the components become available.

Any rifle considered for use during serious unrest needs to be chambered in a commonly available military cartridge.

 

[ironpony52]

So. Now that I have read this thread and have a complete AR15 lower ready to go, what 6.5G upper would be a good economical one??
I do not need a high end tack driver, a sub 100 yard nice and accurate.

 

[Camelfilter]

Any rifle considered for use during serious unrest needs to be chambered in a commonly available military cartridge.

Normally I would agree, however OP has a particular set of circumstances. Bunkering in with elderly parents.

As such, I assume he won't be larping about when the balloon goes up..

 

[308pirate]

Normally I would agree, however OP has a particular set of circumstances. Bunkering in with elderly parents.

As such, I assume he won't be larping about when the balloon goes up..

Smart people will be bunkering up all over.

 

[Camelfilter]

Smart people will be bunkering up all over.

OP has to bunker up in LA. Because, family. Elder family.

Folks with ability to leave LA & no obligation to stay, will leave. Or try...

 

[Norther]

300 BO will do it too, but I have an irrational hatred of rebated rims.

Not disagreeing with your opinion, except 300 BLK doesn’t have a rebated rim.

 

[TheOE800]

All this talk, I’m gonna end up listing my 20” 6ARC in the PX.

 

[MO Fugga]

Haven't seen this mentioned?

 

[phantasm]

Haven't seen this mentioned?View attachment 8434566View attachment 8434567

Destination fucked.

 

[JS8588]

Not disagreeing with your opinion, except 300 BLK doesn’t have a rebated rim.

Well, then...

 

[hlee]

300 BO will do it too, but I have an irrational hatred of rebated rims.

Very irrational, as the 300BO is rimless, not rebated…

 

[Ex E6]

Caliber chasing is a viscous game . Get this get that 30-100 fps quicker 20 grains heavier bullets fits the bolt face need another bolt just another barrel W/Bolt , it's on and on never ending . Snake oil sales which oil is best ?. The stuff which is in your vehicle ( provided you've changed it recently and it's on the dipstick mark ) .

MRAD will do it all ,yet they're costly in more ways than one . So Men break out your wallets as it's time too step up with a .338 LM and reach out and touch something 2 miles away .

As for myself " IF " one gun did it all ,I'd have stopped back in 64 with MY 10/22 Ruger . Fish and Game said CENTER FIRE for Game species ,so I popped for a Commercial Mauser 7mm Rem Mag. Never looking back and $100's of K's poorer for it and ditto with reloading .
Yet you CAN'T take it with you ,can you SO NO REGRETS ,step right up pays your monies and takes your chances

 

[AngryKoala]

Any rifle considered for use during serious unrest needs to be chambered in a commonly available military cartridge.

45 colt and a time machine.

 

[W54/XM-388]

In my opinion trying to improve on the AR15 gets to be an exercise in limited gains for all the work.

In my opinion in the AR15 platform the 2 best options as far as bang for the buck and effort go if you want to move away from standard 5.56 are:

.300 BLK in SuperSonic loadings
.223 in the heavier longer bullets depending on what barrel you have

After that in my opinion you really are better served with just going with the AR10 platform and using that.
There is for example the Ruger SFAR which is close in size and weight to an AR15 but gets you .308 and 6.5cm Once you can start getting better aftermarket barrels for it, and maybe better aftermarket gasblocks, I think it might take off a fair bit.

 

[supercorndogs]

I revisted my grendel while i was waiting for a 6 arc barrel. I ended up buying a 16" 6 arc barrel also while I was waiting. It would be my go to for long hike or bicycle ride hunts now. If my grendel was also 16" instead of 18" it probably wouldn't make any diffrence to me.

There is also the 6x45. Stick a 6mm bullet in a 223 case.

 

[308pirate]

I am always amused by people looking for a hardware solution to a software problem.

Buy ammo and train.

 

[XP1K]

Op, realistically speaking, how far do you think your farthest shot would be in this scenario ?

 

[Franko]

Op, realistically speaking, how far do you think your farthest shot would be in this scenario ?

From parent's front porch 300 yards of wide open street.

 

[MO Fugga]

Destination fucked.

Garmin said 2500. Still grinning.!

 

[XP1K]

From parent's front porch 300 yards of wide open street.

If that's as far as you're going, I say stick with 5.56. Spend that extra gun on ammo or food, or the training you mentioned earlier in the thread. Or, by the time you outfit the new rifle with an optic, mags, ammo, money spent to practice with the new setup, you could be into a fairly decent thermal. Night time capabilities in that situation will be priceless.

I've got a couple of older thermals. A flir pts233 and al old 75mm armasight Zeus. I've got about 4k wrapped up in the two of them. I'd get rid of the 233 but I won't get anything for it, so it'll probably end up on a 22 for night time chicken coop defense. The Zeus can do 2-300 yards in the dark in decent conditions.

You can get into a pretty good thermal now (a lot better than what I have) for around $3,500. Heck, there's a used halo lr in the px for $4,200 right now.

 

[MO Fugga]

I am always amused by people looking for a hardware solution to a software problem.

Buy ammo and train.

For some big bore enthusiasts, a 10 round limit may be in play.

 

[Franko]

For some big bore enthusiasts, a 10 round limit may be in play.

It is. If it wasn't I would have 2 AR15's, lots of 30 round mags and a shitload of green tips or homebrewed brown tips and I'd call it a day.

 

[MO Fugga]

It is. If it wasn't I would have 2 AR15's, lots of 30 round mags and a shitload of green tips or homebrewed brown tips and I'd call it a day.

Well, I prefer .458 over the others in its class for bullet selection alone. Fuck SAAMI and her sister. 100gr aluminum hollowpoints to 500gr solids, it's versatile. Not to mention, normal use brass rarely needs to be trimmed. Even full length resizing every time!

 

[MO Fugga]

Missouri Bullet 405s are a nice plinking load at about 1500. 16" RRA. You can stuff 14 of them in a 40 rnd PMAG.

 

[MO Fugga]

Diversity.... A minuteman needs at least 60 rounds, right?

Lehigh 300 HP, 140 ARX, 350 TTSX, 300 Ballistic Silvertip, and 2 of my 405s

 

[MO Fugga]

@Franko, get a Tromix, or a Rock River.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

My gun-tism has an aversion to rebated rimmed cartridges. I'll go on a full-on autistic screed about how much I despise 300 BO, but I don’t want to derail OPs thread (and intellectually I understand it's a perfectly fine cartridge, I just have a visceral distaste for it.)

I hate to break it to you, but 300BO is just a 5.56 case with the shoulder lopped off. No rebated rim.

 

[91Eunozs]

Not aimed at you, just a caveat off of the meat in the middle of your post.

At one point in my 6.5G vs 6.8 internal 'which is better' test, I actually went through the previous 50 hog kills from each (I own and use both quite a bit), and wasted the time to count all of the hits it took to make pigs (both stationary and running) dead.

I think that the results were so close that there were like only 4 hits total between the two cartridges to get to the 50 kills...quite literally so insignificant that my impact locations probably caused more of a difference between the two than choice of cartridge. My final opinion is that either is great, and you aren't lacking when compared to the other (for hunting/defense).

I also found that bullet selection made a pretty decent impact on either decision. Stay away from the cheap stuff and your lethality goes up.

Then I took hours of data and wrapped it up in a shitty video where I made it look like I counted on my fingers and toes. F - my life.

* To make matters worse, I compared all of my shitty softpoint .308 kills to both the Grendel and 6.8...and found that the .308 with a 30 cent bullet stops/kills better than either of the others with 80 cent bullets. So I can kills pigs cheaper with the .308 too. Obviously the trade off is weight and recoil.

I definitely expect that the SPC and Grendel will continue to lose favor over the next decade. At least the Grendel bullets share commonality with some popular stuff. That's another reason why I'd stick with a 5.56 and heavy bullets, or jump into .308 (maybe 6.5 Creed) if I felt underpowered... either that or buy everything you think you'll need for life pretty soon.

Yeah, they’re both damn fine pig rounds for sure.

I break out my 16” AR10 chambered in .308 every now and again, but almost always use it just for daylight hunts…I have my 6.8s (well, two of ‘em any) set up with IR lasers and red dots to use with NVGs, and even with the lightweight Holosun laser vs. the MAWL, the AR10 is just too heavy (and too long) to easily maneuver. Too much like work! LoL

The .308 is almost always a one shot kill, even on the biggest hogs, but I can get faster follow ups on running sounders with the 6.8s; simply softer shooting/less recoil, and the two I primarily use for night hunts have 12.5” and 14.5” barrels (always paired with one of our four SBR’d lowers).

 

[Jsp556]

Night vision and body armor might happen further down the road but my time and cash is limited (esp with respect to night vision; man that stuff is expensive). Your advice is appreciated.

Shit hitting the fan doesn’t stop at sun down. If I had to pick between 3 rifles (5.56, 6.5G, 6.5 Creedmoor) with day optics or 2 5.56 guns, one with a day optic and one with a thermal, I’m picking the latter.

A basic thermal weapon sight is cheaper than a decent 6.5Creed build with a good optic. Even the $1100 AGM 256 units will identify a human with a rifle out to 200 +\- yards. That’s cheaper than an XTR3 plus mount and covers you through the night.