Rifle Scopes What constitues a tier one scope vs tier two and etc?

[Dthomas3523]

Woah! Minox ZP5 Tier 2?
Have to disagree with ya there.

Feel free to list the features that would put it in the same class as tooless turrets, locking turrets, set and forget parallax......

It has good glass, that’s it. It doesn’t have the features the three I listed have and that has to be taken into account as well.

Also, minox is giving them away at 50%.

Tier 2 is still pretty damn good. But anytime a group of optics pulls ahead noticeably and has more features.......that’s a different tier.

 

[Jonnyb0381]

Feel free to list the features that would put it in the same class as tooless turrets, locking turrets, set and forget parallax......

It has good glass, that’s it. It doesn’t have the features the three I listed have and that has to be taken into account as well.

Also, minox is giving them away at 50%.

Fov , awesome parralax, no CA, fantastic reticle.

Not all have the same opinion but most who have handled one would have it in the tier one.

Just because there is a special on an optic doesnt drop it down a tier.
They are just getting thier brand out there.

 

[b6graham]

percentage of people who bought them at 50% off is 10x more than people who bought them at normal price

there's a reason for that

and a reason i know several who went from minox to 7-35 atacr

 

[canezach]

I defer to Ilya on the matter of the Minox: "Minox is absolutely an alpha class optic. If you can get it for 50% off, do it."

At the end of the day, what I consider "Alpha" or "Tier 1" may not match someone else's list.

Edit: I may have to break down and order a TT just to see one for myself

 

[Dthomas3523]

Fov , awesome parralax, no CA, fantastic reticle.

Not all have the same opinion but most who have handled one would have it in the tier one.

Just because there is a special on an optic doesnt drop it down a tier.
They are just getting thier brand out there.

Tier 1 glass.

Not a tier one optic. You can’t just look at glass.

I’ve owned a few and have owned the others in the list. Pretty much all of them except Athlon and cheaper vortex.

You can be a fanboy of the glass all you want, as it’s nice glass. But the top tier optics give you much more features and reliability. Minox also had a fair amount of returns earlier this year. Which is why they were all over the PX.

Also, you don’t take your $3300 optic and sell it 50% off to “get your name out there.”

Financially, you have to be ok with a HUGE devaluation in your product. You don’t get to sell them for $1700 for 6months and then get to magically go back to 2800-3200

 

[Dthomas3523]

Here’s a test for anyone who wants to put minox in the class with theta and zco.

I’m going to lay them all on the table, and price them all at $3600. You can get a zco for $3600, a gen2xr for 38/4k and a gen3xr for about $4300. So let’s just price them both at $3600 for example’s sake.

So, the price is $3600 for either:

Minox
Zco
Theta

Depending on the rifle, I’d pick either zco or theta. Wouldn’t even look at the minox.

You aren’t picking it for resale value. To keep and use forever.

How many of you would pick up the minox? It’s the same class and just as good right?

 

[b6graham]

Minox is selling for a little more than a razor gen 2...but it includes a RIFLE.

How long did it takes the razor gen 2 to drop to 2k retail? Same msrp starting point as the ZP5

 

[dustingaunder]

The ZP5 has great glass. The MR4 reticle is also very nice. Looking through the scope is heavenly. Touching it or looking at it is not. Besides the glass and reticle, the Kahles K525 is a better scope in pretty much everything else. I also like the locking diopter on the Minox. Kahles has better eyebox, better turrets, better mag ring, better fit/finish/feel, shorter, lighter. I’m going to sell one of them and I can’t decide which one.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Hell, if they were free. But the catch is, you have to keep it and you can’t own any of the others (otherwise everyone takes the henny because they priced them so high. You take the henny and buy one of the others later).

Henny
Zco
Theta
Minox

3 of the 4 would have takers. I’d be shocked if anyone picked up the minox.

 

[_Windrider_]

Hell, if they were free. But the catch is, you have to keep it and you can’t own any of the others (otherwise everyone takes the henny because they priced them so high. You take the henny and buy one of the others later).

Henny
Zco
Theta
Minox

3 of the 4 would have takers. I’d be shocked if anyone picked up the minox.

Quigley Ford all day and twice on Sunday.

 

[b6graham]

Quigley Ford all day and twice on Sunday.

we do not include quigley ford or huskemaw because they are simply too awesome to compare to lowly ZCO NF and TT

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Tier rating is based on number of confirmed kills. Most people think it based on price, glass, reticle zero stops, turrets and so forth. That is all bullshit. ☠ ??

 

[Wyzrd]

Tier rating is based on number of confirmed kills. Most people think it based on price, glass, reticle zero stops, turrets and so forth. That is all bullshit. ☠ ??

Confirmed kills while attached to a rifle, or when used to bludgeon someone with? ??

 

[Driftr76]

If a tier 1 scope is in MOA, does that make it a tier 1.047? Damn I suck.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I too have a red heeler. She has spent the last 18 months whipping a German Shepherd pup into a heeler. Sort of like an American joining the French Forgeign Legion and convincing him he is French. Needless, to say, the red heeler is exhausted by the end of the end of the day but we are seeing progress here. Red heeler to the vet = 3. German Shepherd to the vet = 2.

 

[Driftr76]

My heeler's just under a year old. He's got as much energy as my 3 year old son, and he's deaf. He drives my wife and our other 2 senior dogs nuts. I of course think he's awesome .

 

[canezach]

Confirmed kills while attached to a rifle, or when used to bludgeon someone with? ??

In that case, there's only one scope that could do that and it's the Vortex Gen II Razor. Plus, if you happen to dent it whilst bludgeoning some poor sap, Vortex will replace it!

 

[GySgt Smith JE]

I just picked up a atacr 7X35 and now it makes me feel like I should have spent a little more and looked into the Minox,ZCO, or TT

 

[Jonnyb0381]

I just picked up a atacr 7X35 and now it makes me feel like I should have spent a little more and looked into the Minox,ZCO, or TT

The 7-35 ATACR is still an awesome optic. Im sure you will enjoy it!

 

[Covertnoob5]

I just picked up a atacr 7X35 and now it makes me feel like I should have spent a little more and looked into the Minox,ZCO, or TT

I’d take a 7-35 over a minox personally, and don’t ever feel bad about a 7-35 in general. Great scopes with a lot of features. And if you like the reticle you got more than the others, honestly at this price point that’s one of the most important things.

 

[GySgt Smith JE]

I’d take a 7-35 over a minox personally, and don’t ever feel bad about a 7-35 in general. Great scopes with a lot of features. And if you like the reticle you got more than the others, honestly at this price point that’s one of the most important things.

Thanks for the words of reassurance. I’m very happy with the ATACR and really like the MIL-XT reticle. This is my first “Tier 1 or 2”, (depending on who you ask) scope purchase. So after spending that kind of money I just have been looking through forums making sure I made the correct choice.

 

[Covertnoob5]

Thanks for the words of reassurance. I’m very happy with the ATACR and really like the MIL-XT reticle. This is my first “Tier 1 or 2”, (depending on who you ask) scope purchase. So after spending that kind of money I just have been looking through forums making sure I made the correct choice.

No doubt. I also really like the mil-xt after looking through a couple friends 735s. I’ve got a 527ZCO currently, had several Tangents, and I’ve still got a 735 milxt due to arrive to me Tuesday.

 

[CRT2]

Robust - sturdy, capable of performing without failure under a wide range of conditions. Cost, reticle, and etc. are less important.

 

[canezach]

Thanks for the words of reassurance. I’m very happy with the ATACR and really like the MIL-XT reticle. This is my first “Tier 1 or 2”, (depending on who you ask) scope purchase. So after spending that kind of money I just have been looking through forums making sure I made the correct choice.

At this point, there really is no "correct choice". You'll see some people will bash any scope, whether it's Minox, Nightforce, Steiner, whatever. If YOU are happy with it, that's all that matters! In the three years I've owned it, my Minox has been to countless matches, range trips, etc, and it has NEVER failed me. It has incredible glass, tracks perfectly, and the MR4 is arguably one of the best reticles available. But I'm STILL looking at picking up a NF 7-35!

 

[TangoSierra916]

I’ve seen a few people put ZCO in tier 1 and heard many good reviews from users on here. I know they have great names behind the company but doesn’t long term durability and track record have to play into a tier 1 optic, or is that not important?

The ZCO specs seem impressive and I’m not discounting the optic by any means just curious since this thread was here.

 

[Rookie]

Still hoping someone will bring me up to speed on USOptics. Did they fall from grace? Change ownership? Move overseas?

 

[Covertnoob5]

Still hoping someone will bring me up to speed on USOptics. Did they fall from grace? Change ownership? Move overseas?

Haven’t changed their design in years. Sub par glass for the price. Just not advancing with the times really.

 

[Jonnyb0381]

Hell, if they were free. But the catch is, you have to keep it and you can’t own any of the others (otherwise everyone takes the henny because they priced them so high. You take the henny and buy one of the others later).

Henny
Zco
Theta
Minox

3 of the 4 would have takers. I’d be shocked if anyone picked up the minox.

I agree that the Minox is at the bottom of the class but it also should be as the cost is signifantly less than ZCO and Tangent. Hensoldt should technically not even be in the convo since its in a whole different galaxy as far as price is concerned.

 

[MysizeisMAGNUM]

The only thing funnier than this thread is the number of guys who think Minox is Tier 1!

LMFAO that scope is lucky to be a Tier 2...

I mean I hope you like that MP4 reticle because you're not going to want to touch those turrets.

 

[Jonnyb0381]

The only thing funnier about this thread is the number of guys who think Minox is Tier 1!

LMFAO that scope is lucky to be a Tier 2...

And you probably think a Khales is much better right? Based on your experience what is the reason why they wouldnt be and do you own a Minox ZP5 ?

 

[MysizeisMAGNUM]

And you probably think a Khales is much better right? Based on your experience what is the reason why they wouldnt be and do you own a Minox ZP5 ?

If someone asked me to describe the turrets I'd compare it to mashed potatoes...

 

[Jonnyb0381]

If someone asked me to describe the turrets I'd compare it to mashed potatoes...

Sounds like an old model to me. I can see how somebody would be drawn away from a particular brand that had that issue. I hear the old turrets some appeared to have issues.

 

[Longrangequad]

I am not a fan of posters who fuckoff in tech sections.

I’d say T1 is

Hensoldt
Tangent Theta
Schmidt and Bender
Kahles
Steiner
Nightforce

Obviously there are differences between them, and not all models will qualify.

I don’t think there is a metric, but I’d consider T1 to be a scope meant to be the best that a high quality company can produce. Tracking, glass, performance record of the company, and quality service are all factored in.

Anything below that (T2, etc) means that significant compromises were made in order to compete at a certain price point, I.E. Nightforce SHV, Steiner T5xi, Vortex PST Gen II. I personally would put the AMG at T1 and the Razor as almost there, due to the weight.

Some of it will be a judgement call, and whether the person is a “lumper” or a “splitter.”

EDIT: did it seriously take post #18 to get an actual fucking opinion? This is the issue with a fast growing forum, signal-to-noise ratio. Police yourselves, nasties.

Thanks for the informative post. Just out of curiosity would you put Swarovski or Zeiss as a T-1? I understand Zeiss has had some issues in the past but I saw one at the gun store the other day and look through it. Obviously, that is not ideal conditions and it wasn't the top-of-the-line product i.e. Victory V-8.

 

[acudaowner]

I just liked the deer eating pop corn glif .

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

What constitues a tier one scope vs tier two and etc?

Ones Perception?

 

[ManUtdManiac]

Minutes of Feels. or MOF.

A Minute of Feels is the unit of measure by which the owner of a product feels that they are at once snipery, badass, greater in capability than anything empirically measurable in their life would suggest and are able to come onto firearms and shooting websites and espouse opinions and suggestions on topics they would have otherwise kept silent on.

The ultimate Minute of Feels is the mythical product Spin D. Application of Spin D on rifle, ammo and shooter bestows upon the shooter a temporary MOF of 100, allowing the shooter to see - actually see - the earth's rotation and the potential bullet trace over the desired distance to the intended target. It's not uncommon to hear awesome theme music while under the influence of Spin D and MOF 100.

Price of Optic has a direct and positive relationship with MOF. If the glass is Schott glass then immediately add 20 MOFs to optic. If the optic however has ring marks or dings from having been actually used, then paradoxically subtract nearly all MOFs unless the previous owner was a genuine sniper in which case, you advance to 90 MOF. Anything owned by Lowlight, Chris Kyle, Marky Mark or Sean Connery has maximum and lifetime MOFs.

I hope this helps.

All copyrights to Minutes of Feels are bestowed upon the author of this post who has 100 MOFs (Tangent Theta optic that has the spirit of Carlos Hathcock and that lethal mofo from Finland who basically defeated the Russians singlehandedly while sustaining a shot to the face...).

 

[deersniper]

No doubt. I also really like the mil-xt after looking through a couple friends 735s. I’ve got a 527ZCO currently, had several Tangents, and I’ve still got a 735 milxt due to arrive to me Tuesday.

How are you liking the ZCO v the NF?

 

[Punkur67]

You want a top tier scope go with Tasco.

YES! I made it in the teir 1 group!

 

[Powder_Burns]

Minutes of Feels. or MOF.

A Minute of Feels is the unit of measure by which the owner of a product feels that they are at once snipery, badass, greater in capability than anything empirically measurable in their life would suggest and are able to come onto firearms and shooting websites and espouse opinions and suggestions on topics they would have otherwise kept silent on.

The ultimate Minute of Feels is the mythical product Spin D. Application of Spin D on rifle, ammo and shooter bestows upon the shooter a temporary MOF of 100, allowing the shooter to see - actually see - the earth's rotation and the potential bullet trace over the desired distance to the intended target. It's not uncommon to hear awesome theme music while under the influence of Spin D and MOF 100.

Price of Optic has a direct and positive relationship with MOF. If the glass is Schott glass then immediately add 20 MOFs to optic. If the optic however has ring marks or dings from having been actually used, then paradoxically subtract nearly all MOFs unless the previous owner was a genuine sniper in which case, you advance to 90 MOF. Anything owned by Lowlight, Chris Kyle, Marky Mark or Sean Connery has maximum and lifetime MOFs.

I hope this helps.

All copyrights to Minutes of Feels are bestowed upon the author of this post who has 100 MOFs (Tangent Theta optic that has the spirit of Carlos Hathcock and that lethal mofo from Finland who basically defeated the Russians singlehandedly while sustaining a shot to the face...).

I’ll see your Spin D and raise you a can of Slap-Off!

 

[Esoteric Junkie]

The answer is definitely a subjective one, however I think most will agree that precise and repeatable tracking, repeatable return to zero, high resolution, color fidelity, durability, weight, the companies reputation and warranty are just some of the talking points when considering a Tier 1 optic. Teaser nugget.................Zeiss, the makers of Hensoldt, are coming out with Victory FFP mil and moa scopes.
EJ

 

[Powder_Burns]

The answer is definitely a subjective one, however I think most will agree that precise and repeatable tracking, repeatable return to zero, high resolution, color, durability, weight, the companies reputation and warranty are just some of the talking points when considering a Tier 1 optic. Teaser nugget.................Zeiss, the makers of Hensoldt, are coming out with a Victory FFP mil and moa scopes.
EJ

But will it have another fudd-plex reticle?

 

[beetroot]

But will it have another fudd-plex reticle?

Zeiss currently offer non fudd reticles in the V4/V6 but no Mil or FFP options.

Will be very interested to see what Zeiss comes out with, Leupold should have already done this with the Vx5/Vx6 line.

 

[ManUtdManiac]

I’ll see your Spin D and raise you a can of Slap-Off!

well goddam! I award you 98 MOF...

 

[Slab74]

In that case, there's only one scope that could do that and it's the Vortex Gen II Razor. Plus, if you happen to dent it whilst bludgeoning some poor sap, Vortex will replace it!

NF beast, you could break down a brick wall with it and beat the people behind it. No need to send it back.

 

[Guthwine]

I see the ZP5 definitely in the Tier 1 category because of the excellent glass quality, and reliable mechanics which are kind of the main features of a scope.

All other features are optional and depend on your needs. (tooless zero, locking turrets, etc). These features do not imho contribute to a Tier 1 optic, they are nice to have, if you value them.

But I am definitely also a fanboy.

 

[Slab74]

Tier 1: must sell at least one major body part to buy, unless you are in the top 1%.
Tier 2: hide the bill from your wife, but will not cost you half if your shit. If we go by confirmed kills, the Bushnell 3200 is my tier 1. 75% of my kills came behind one of those. Too bad they don’t make them anymore. It was the best value in hunting scopes for years. It never held me back and was rock solid.