What did you do in the reloading room today?
- Thread starter Kisssofdeath
- Start date
I have used most of the brands available for 223 brass. There are a couple that didn't work well for my routine, odly most people would consider them high quality.
The most consistent rounds I have produced came from brass that I wouldn't buy (factory loaded) to blast pumpkins with. Go figure.
The most consistent rounds I have produced came from brass that I wouldn't buy (factory loaded) to blast pumpkins with. Go figure.
I have used most brands, I like LC and Fed , but found that the Lapua rim is smoother entering the shell holder the best. My groups are just as good with LC but as I said its just a choice.
LC brass fired through a quality barrel will produce excellent groups.
Sometimes 5 shots in 1/4". But 1/2 moa is not unusual.
No weight sorting, just buy a lot of one thousand, load and shoot,...get the free primers too.
I use the same busing die on both Lapua and LC.
LC has a little less volume, so drop the charge a bit on max loads.
Even the 50BMG is capable of 1/2 MOA with LC brass and 620 gr APITs for 5 shots. With a bullet that's over 1/2" wide...
Sometimes 5 shots in 1/4". But 1/2 moa is not unusual.
No weight sorting, just buy a lot of one thousand, load and shoot,...get the free primers too.
I use the same busing die on both Lapua and LC.
LC has a little less volume, so drop the charge a bit on max loads.
Even the 50BMG is capable of 1/2 MOA with LC brass and 620 gr APITs for 5 shots. With a bullet that's over 1/2" wide...
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Highly doubtful Lapua is sending ANY brass into Ukraine ,for WHAT purpose ??. Iron Block Countries use Steel cases ,NOBODY is reloading war fodder . War is War and it simply has to go BANG and hit it's intended target .
Red Army Brown Bear
Every ex-Warsaw Pact country, ex-Soviet Republics, China, Vietnam, Egypt, Iraq, Burma, India, and many others produce 7.62x39mm ammo (though the quality varies from country to country). Even Finland produces the ammo for its AK series of weapons in case of war with Russia. Highly unlikely Finland is supplying anyone let alone Ukraine .
Germany, Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, and Czechoslovakia, as well as non-Warsaw nations such as China and Yugoslavia, also produce tens of millions of rounds for military use. Nations in Asia, Africa, and Latin America receive a large share of it for the various proxy wars !.
MY Guess would be Taiwan South Korea would be cranking out 5.56X45mm for the M4 ,FN Scar and Bren Rifles .
The Bren is another short-stroke gas-piston gun similar to the SCAR, so much so it’s often joked that the Bren is the Czech SCAR. The Czech Republic donated the weapons to Ukraine and they’ve been popular with the Foreign Legion. The Bren is a modern, modular rifle that’s accessory-ready, fairly light, and quite reliable. The gun comes in either 5.56 or 7.62, but we’ve only seen a 5.56 variation in use in Ukraine.
Another unsurprising sight is the PKM belt-fed machine gun. This medium machine gun fires the 7.62x54R and has been seen in the hands of American volunteers fighting in Ukraine. This belt-fed support weapon is one of the better medium machine guns out there. It operates on the same principle as the Kalashnikov and is perfectly suited for the Ukrainian winter. It’s also light for its design and quite effective.
Red Army Brown Bear
Every ex-Warsaw Pact country, ex-Soviet Republics, China, Vietnam, Egypt, Iraq, Burma, India, and many others produce 7.62x39mm ammo (though the quality varies from country to country). Even Finland produces the ammo for its AK series of weapons in case of war with Russia. Highly unlikely Finland is supplying anyone let alone Ukraine .
Germany, Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, and Czechoslovakia, as well as non-Warsaw nations such as China and Yugoslavia, also produce tens of millions of rounds for military use. Nations in Asia, Africa, and Latin America receive a large share of it for the various proxy wars !.
Numerous AK variants
Unsurprisingly there are a ton of AK-types in Ukraine, including the Russian-made AKM and AK 74 series alongside the RPK light machine gun. These rifles either fire the 7.62×39 or the 5.45×39 and can be either fixed- and or folding-stock types. Countries like Serbia have donated their AK variants to Ukraine, and we’ve even seen Chinese Type 56 rifles used by the Ukrainian forces. It’s somewhat difficult to tell which AKs have gone to the Ukraine Foreign Legion, but they most certainly have been seen wielding them.MY Guess would be Taiwan South Korea would be cranking out 5.56X45mm for the M4 ,FN Scar and Bren Rifles .
The Bren is another short-stroke gas-piston gun similar to the SCAR, so much so it’s often joked that the Bren is the Czech SCAR. The Czech Republic donated the weapons to Ukraine and they’ve been popular with the Foreign Legion. The Bren is a modern, modular rifle that’s accessory-ready, fairly light, and quite reliable. The gun comes in either 5.56 or 7.62, but we’ve only seen a 5.56 variation in use in Ukraine.
Another unsurprising sight is the PKM belt-fed machine gun. This medium machine gun fires the 7.62x54R and has been seen in the hands of American volunteers fighting in Ukraine. This belt-fed support weapon is one of the better medium machine guns out there. It operates on the same principle as the Kalashnikov and is perfectly suited for the Ukrainian winter. It’s also light for its design and quite effective.
M249 SAW/ FN Minime
The Belgian FN Minime became the American M249 SAW. The two weapons are largely the same and with both Belgium and the United States donating weapons to Ukraine, it’s tough to say which is which by looking at photos. This 5.56 caliber, belt-fed, light machine gun provides a squad with a designated support weapon and is much easier to use in urban areas and tight quarters than a medium machine gun. These guns offer portability for a machine gun with a reliable open-bolt design.M240/FN MAG machine guns
Like the M249 and Minime, the FN MAG and M240 are largely the same gun but with different designations. The M240 is my favorite medium machine gun. It’s insanely reliable and quite accurate and capable. It’s admittedly heavy but easy to use and quite effective. This 7.62 NATO machine gun offers a general-purpose machine gun for infantry and vehicle use and is at home in both defense and offense. It’s tough to find a more reliable machine gun out there.CZ Scorpion's are also popular
Had and interesting time today in my reloading room after receiving my order of 100 6.8x51 Hybrid cases.
First thing, I took measurements to see what I'm dealing with as I prepare to size them into a .308 case. Other than having to expand the neck, it was interesting to see the OD difference just below the shoulder-body junction was at .458 as opposed to a .308 at ~ .452". Down at the web, the OD I measured .4675". . . slightly less that some virgin .308 cases of .468". Case headspace what pretty much the same as .308 case, at least until they were sized where I had to adjust my .308 FL sizing die down to get where I needed to be. Neck wall thickness was at .015 + a little more for some of them.
Most of the cases had evidence of being annealed, but some did not. And those that did were pretty clean inside where the others still had a little bit powder in them with some clinging to the inside case wall.
Here's what that powder looks like:
Since these cases come already primed, I removed the primes, measured the depth of the primers pockets as well at the height of these primers. Primer pockets were .128 deep and these primers were ~.1235 tall. Primers in the cases were seated very consistently at .004 below flush.
to be continued. . .
First thing, I took measurements to see what I'm dealing with as I prepare to size them into a .308 case. Other than having to expand the neck, it was interesting to see the OD difference just below the shoulder-body junction was at .458 as opposed to a .308 at ~ .452". Down at the web, the OD I measured .4675". . . slightly less that some virgin .308 cases of .468". Case headspace what pretty much the same as .308 case, at least until they were sized where I had to adjust my .308 FL sizing die down to get where I needed to be. Neck wall thickness was at .015 + a little more for some of them.
Most of the cases had evidence of being annealed, but some did not. And those that did were pretty clean inside where the others still had a little bit powder in them with some clinging to the inside case wall.
Here's what that powder looks like:
Since these cases come already primed, I removed the primes, measured the depth of the primers pockets as well at the height of these primers. Primer pockets were .128 deep and these primers were ~.1235 tall. Primers in the cases were seated very consistently at .004 below flush.
to be continued. . .
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Since I want to fire form some cases that I can measure their case volume, I’ve annealed, sized, prepped and loaded up 10 cases that I’ll also measure velocity to get some idea for velocity with a load of IMR-4064 that I’ve used before. Primers that were removed were reseated to the same depth as before (.004 blow flush).
The rest of the cases were put through my annealing process as well (flame annealing to a red glow) then expanded the necks with a .305” expander mandrel. Once all the cases are fire formed, I’ll then turn the necks to .014” thick.
To make sure all the powder is out of the cases and take care of the oxidation layer after annealing, I wet tumbled them with SS pins (25 min).
Took the clean cases and FL sized them all, dry tumbled to remove lube and trimmed to length. Here the finished product:
BTW: While sizing the cases, there was one case of the batch that had a funny sound when removing it from the sizing die. That sound and the way it felt alerted me that something wasn't right. I measured the case OAL and it was way long, like .032" longer that is should be. Measuring its headspace had the same issue. Apparently the steel head fitting to the brass has pulled out as there was much more space between the steel head and the brass body on the outside surface. So, it's not a case I'm going to try to use in any way.
The rest of the cases were put through my annealing process as well (flame annealing to a red glow) then expanded the necks with a .305” expander mandrel. Once all the cases are fire formed, I’ll then turn the necks to .014” thick.
To make sure all the powder is out of the cases and take care of the oxidation layer after annealing, I wet tumbled them with SS pins (25 min).
Took the clean cases and FL sized them all, dry tumbled to remove lube and trimmed to length. Here the finished product:
BTW: While sizing the cases, there was one case of the batch that had a funny sound when removing it from the sizing die. That sound and the way it felt alerted me that something wasn't right. I measured the case OAL and it was way long, like .032" longer that is should be. Measuring its headspace had the same issue. Apparently the steel head fitting to the brass has pulled out as there was much more space between the steel head and the brass body on the outside surface. So, it's not a case I'm going to try to use in any way.
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Ordered a set of inexpensive scale check weights last week.
Received them today.
Friends don't let Friends buy cheap Measuring tools.
Received them today.
Friends don't let Friends buy cheap Measuring tools.
The funny sound is ya did not have enough lube on the case, it was harder to pull out of the die...
You got lucky this time.
So make sure you lube it enough.
Or you'll be "sorry."
Because you'll likely scrap your die.
As the whole case head pulls off.
Conventional case pullers will not work, cause there is no case head, only a case body stuck in your die.
For the average reloader USE cheap Lee brand FL sizing dies, and have an extra on hand. ...just throw it away when ya get a stuck case with no case head on it.
Casue you'll need a quality lathe or milling machine to extract the case from the die, without die damage.
Been there... it happens ...ya don't lube the case enough or just run it back through the die cause ya just sized it ... stuck...SO re- lube it every time.
You got lucky this time.
So make sure you lube it enough.
Or you'll be "sorry."
Because you'll likely scrap your die.
As the whole case head pulls off.
Conventional case pullers will not work, cause there is no case head, only a case body stuck in your die.
For the average reloader USE cheap Lee brand FL sizing dies, and have an extra on hand. ...just throw it away when ya get a stuck case with no case head on it.
Casue you'll need a quality lathe or milling machine to extract the case from the die, without die damage.
Been there... it happens ...ya don't lube the case enough or just run it back through the die cause ya just sized it ... stuck...SO re- lube it every time.
I finished cleaning, de-capping and re-sizing the 5 gallon bucket of .45 acp brass I recently got from a shooting buddy.
I now have 5500 rounds of clean, decapped, re-sized and ready to load .45 acp brass.
Now, if I ever find a 9mm Hi Power, I'll clean, decap and resize the 5 gallon bucket of 9mm brass I now have.
I now have 5500 rounds of clean, decapped, re-sized and ready to load .45 acp brass.
Now, if I ever find a 9mm Hi Power, I'll clean, decap and resize the 5 gallon bucket of 9mm brass I now have.
I may have ruined about 200 pieces of Alpha 6gt brass and 100 lapua 6.5c brass by wet tumbling with ss pin media.
Have cleaned brass that way for several years. Never had an issue. Well now all my brass has a wicked lip on the mouth after I seat the bullet.
Have tried using my giraud to clean them up but it's still appearing after a few pieces I've tested with.
Have cleaned brass that way for several years. Never had an issue. Well now all my brass has a wicked lip on the mouth after I seat the bullet.
Have tried using my giraud to clean them up but it's still appearing after a few pieces I've tested with.
Yeah, I thought maybe that particular case didn't have enough lube. Though the effort to remove the case out of the die didn't seem particularly hard. I was using a lot of lube (Imperial Sizing Die Wax) and cases were extracting plenty easy and in a couple instances, I got that dreaded "too much lube" dimple on the side of the case well below the shoulder (not severe, but there none the less)
. You're words of warning are definably important for those going down this road with these hybrid cases.
How long did you wet tumble them?
Unusually, my Giraud cleans up all the peening I might get whenever I wet tumble with SS pins. Though it's rare that I wet tumble with SS pins. Whenever I wet tumble, I don't use any media at all. I only happened to use SS pins when there's dirt or mud stuck inside the cases (or granules of powder stuck on the inside like I found above).
I wouldn't say your cases are ruined as I would think you could run them through your sizing die bumping down the necks a hair then run them through your Giraud again???
Here's why ...I lubed a case, sized it...then put it right back in the die to bump the shoulder back a couple thousandths , thinking it was lubed enough on the first sizing...shouldn't be a problem...it was.Yeah, I thought maybe that particular case didn't have enough lube. Though the effort to remove the case out of the die didn't seem particularly hard. I was using a lot of lube (Imperial Sizing Die Wax) and cases were extracting plenty easy and in a couple instances, I got that dreaded "too much lube" dimple on the side of the case well below the shoulder (not severe, but there none the less)
You're words of warning are definably important for those going down this road with these hybrid cases.
This is what you have left.
I did some measurements and came up with this solution.
it has to be perfectly centered in the lathe or milling machine. Cause you have almost no metal left to work with.
True up the cases jagged hole with boring bar so you have no burrs or jagged brass to push your tap off center.
Use a 7/16" X 20 tap, with a tapping guide to hold dead center.
I made the pulling cap to center over the die and a 7/16" X 20 bolt to pull the brass out of the die.
It looks like the picture case removed from die with SS head pulled off.
Thats why I suggested doing this with a cheap Lee FL die so you can just discard it if you have a stuck hybrid case, or ruin the die when your tap moves off center slightly.
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"Wicked lip" on the brass. Use a 22° VLD case mouth deburring tool.
Or an Exacto knife to trim out the interior burr by hand.
Or ...Next use convention trimmer like Wilson with a sharp cutter and trim down the case COAL, then deburr inside and out with hand tools first before putting them through the power trimmer. Eliminating variables.
Check your inside neck deburring with a Qtip, should be smooth no pulling off of cotton fibers... it's good to go... as long as the necks are the correct dia for the bullet.
Played around with my fl die until I started getting some cam over. Readjusted the blade on my giruard a little. Loaded two dummies and seems ok. No lip on the edge. Stripped my bolt down to just the extractor and it closes really nice on those dummy rounds.
Now that you're getting a little cam over, how much more neck bump are you getting than before?
Get the SAC comparator tool. Expensive but are easy to use and you can use their inserts on their funnel. It's like a 2 in 1 tool. I check headspacing on every time I start a resizing session.
Modular Headspace Comparator – Kit
This kit comes complete with 4 inserts of your choice, one long body, one short body and the stand. Please make sure you select 4 headspace or bullet inserts. Save $55.00 compared to purchasing individually! *** Solid Bullet Inserts are for bullets similar to Cutting Edge Solids Lathe turned...
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While the tumbling of your Alpha brass didn't ruin them, though you very well could if you're bumping those shoulders too far where the brass may not last very long.
Highly recommend you get a headspace comparator, maybe like the one Hornady produces. You really don't want to shorten the life of that nice brass!
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SAC is ridiculously expensive... your dime, so who cares.
I use a cheaper more accurate method.
A drop indicator on a surface plate, with a Wilson cartridge gauge.
Just drop in your fired case and measre this has the go gauge in place of the cartridge...(checking its accuracy which is commonly slightly off)....adjust the die down to set back the shoulder say .002" check in your chamber, then run a bunch checking periodically.
The indicator tells ya exactly where your at and how much variation your getting quickly, so you know it might be time to anneal.
Surface plate with a drop indicator set up at cheap tool supply houses ...so all ya gotta buy is a case gauge for every caliber or make one with your finish reamer.
Your case heads are slighty out of square and not flat, so thats why your reading varies slightly on the same case as you move it around....say .0005"
Is it .001" or .0015" on the reading?
Here's why....even the new Lapua brass has a high spot.
Buy expensive hand tools that are not really that accurate, giving you the false impression that the dollars you spent, bought you accuracy...a false impression, and it happens all the time.
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Cleaned a bunch of 300 WM and 6.5 Grendel from my range trip this morning. Just dumped the first lot out of the tumbler...shiny!
Loaded up some ammo for load development and zeroing tomorrow morning.
New 223 bolt gun with .183 free bore.
Left to right: 73gr Berger BT target for break in, 85.5 Berger Hybrid and 90gr Berger VLD.
Modified a sled to point the long pointy rounds into the chamber without crashing into the feed ramp or the face of the barrel.
Fantasy 10 round 223 AI magazine….
Edited to add zeroing
New 223 bolt gun with .183 free bore.
Left to right: 73gr Berger BT target for break in, 85.5 Berger Hybrid and 90gr Berger VLD.
Modified a sled to point the long pointy rounds into the chamber without crashing into the feed ramp or the face of the barrel.
Fantasy 10 round 223 AI magazine….
Edited to add zeroing
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Love the 85.5s, have yet to try the 90 VLDs but the 90 SMKs have done well for me so far. Rocky Mountain Reloading had them cheap awhile back.
1000 12ga shotgun shells were reloaded for trapshooting. then rearranged the shelves for storing ammunition.
Filled my 223 container with 298 rounds with the 75gr ELD-M and CFE. The two groups were my final tests before I started batch reloading.
It's the Harbor Freight Apache 2800. I made a custom insert from some HDPE from Amazon. Clamped two half inch pieces together and drilled the holes in it. It went a lost faster than you would think. I would say about a 30 minute project.
All the inserts I found only hold 100 rounds, I just wanted a case that large to hold more 223 rounds than that, so I ended up at 298 rounds. If someone will 3d print one I'd be all in. The benefit of HDPE is you can write on it with a sharpie to note what rounds are where and then wipe it off when you are done.
Doing another 100 round batch of 308. Ran out of case lube so sized and deprimed as much as I could lube. Then I measured all the brass and kept everything that was under 2.015" because I didn't have a trimmer handy. Was short by about 60-70 cases so started digging through some stuff and found a really nice manual bench trimmer. Got lucky. However, now I need to debur. Wasn't lucky enough to find a deburring tool.
Should I just load the bullets in spite of the brass not being deburred?
Or has anyone concocted an improvised deburring tool?
Should I just load the bullets in spite of the brass not being deburred?
Or has anyone concocted an improvised deburring tool?
No ...deburr the cases.
The interior burr will cause hard seating and peel off some bullet's jacket. Depending on how big the exterior burr is, like a large burr from a dull cutter, it could impede bullet release from the case, and cause pressure spikes and more inconsistent velocities...so deburr.
I turned new Starline 6.5 grendel into 338 ARC brass.
I had a box of 500 new grendel brass so I made about 125 pcs of 338 ARC for about half price of what I paid for 338 ARC brass.
My power trimmer, cutting the grendel brass to size in one second.
Deburr, lube, and size. I'll neck turn in lathe later, but it probably isn't needed
They ain't 6.5 grendel no more.
I had a box of 500 new grendel brass so I made about 125 pcs of 338 ARC for about half price of what I paid for 338 ARC brass.
My power trimmer, cutting the grendel brass to size in one second.
Deburr, lube, and size. I'll neck turn in lathe later, but it probably isn't needed
They ain't 6.5 grendel no more.
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Got out this pound of H4895 to load some 223 heavies up.
Edited to add: $20.49 price tag.
Edited to add: $20.49 price tag.
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ABSOLUTELY!!!! But I really only know the AMP with ampmate. I dump a few hundred in my feeder, and start it. I don't mess with it again until I'm taking my freshly and perfectly annealed brass away. I couldn't imagine going back to gas fired though there's some good torch set ups out there as you mention, its not close to the amp+mate.
I'm loosing my mind. Cleaned up my brass that I caused the mouths to become wicked/peend using my giraud. Also switched to walnut vibratory cleaning. Lot less cleanup I will say.
But....
I noticed several cases have it again. I've already trimmed these cases below spec to clean them up. What now? I have no idea how this is occurring.
But....
I noticed several cases have it again. I've already trimmed these cases below spec to clean them up. What now? I have no idea how this is occurring.
Peening, even from wet tumbling, isn't the result of the media being used. It's the cases themselves banging against each other. The amount of brass to media ratio and the amount of time being tumbled that's a play. Overload the tumbler with brass and that brass is going to bang around against each other a lot. Reduce the amount of brass you're tumbling at one and try to reduce the amount of time tumbling to a minimum to get the results you want.
How long are you tumbling them? I wet tumble with no pins (or any other media) for no more than 20 -30 minutes.
Doesn’t polish the inside but gets them cleaner than I need them to be.
I don't wet tumble very often, mainly when the brass has a lot of dirt or mud on or in them and will use SS media to get the inside cleaned out. When I do wet tumble, I also only go no more than 30 minutes, using very hot water along with Dawn and Lemi Shine. If they're not so dirty, 30 minutes with no media works well to clean the outside and I like that it'll leave some of the powder's carbon deposit on the inside of the necks that works some like a neck lube for seating bullets. There very very little peening when wet tumbling for such a short time without any media.
Got 5 pounds of H4350 from Cabelas for $38.37/lb after mil discount, gift card hacks and active junky rebate.
Loaded about 70 6.5CM rounds into alpha brass and 140gr ELDs.
Annealed about 200 cases in my EP annealer.
Loaded about 70 6.5CM rounds into alpha brass and 140gr ELDs.
Annealed about 200 cases in my EP annealer.
