Fieldcraft What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

[glock24]

My buddies and I set out to expand our shooting capabilities this Labor Day weekend. Instead of practicing at our square range, we drove up to a nearby National forest and scouted a good place for some long distance shooting.

We were lucky enough to find some rolling hills that allowed for a considerable distance. We set up the steel at the furthest point from our shooting position and then we practiced ranging it with our scopes before engaging it. (we ended up with about a 600 meter shot)

We soon discovered however that the prone position that worked so well at the range was basically useless in these conditions because the vegetation was too tall. We were forced to stack our bipods on top our ruck sacks as well as stomp down some of the tall stuff in order to get off a shot.

This experience obviously begs the question about what professionals would do in this situation. Are there preferred methods for handling this? If prone is not allowed, what is the best second choice? Sitting and using a sling? Sitting with a tripod?

Any comments would be appreciated. I'm just trying to make the most of that trip by learning about what I might try the next time.

Thanks

 

[JonLSU]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

Bring a weedeater.

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

What position were you using when you ranged the distance?

 

[glock24]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What position were you using when you ranged the distance? </div></div>

We were in an uncomfortable prone position (too high) with our fully extended bipods atop our rucks. That is the way we were forced to shoot that afternoon. We couldn't load our bipods and had to constantly adjust our cant angle.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

In that situation your best bet for stability is going to be to use a tripod or a set of shooting sticks in the sitting position. When shooting in environments such as that, where the prone is just not feasible, the next best solution is the one that will keep you as low to the ground as possible and provide the most support for the rifle. I would only go to a sling supported position if I really had to and I was sure there were no other means of support available. It's in these situations that products like the Precision Rifle Solutions tripod and commercial shooting sticks really shine.

 

[brando.john]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

The only thing thats going to make a shot like this easier is to practice obvously... everyone is different and excel at different positions so you will have to figure out what position works the best for you and your abilities...

I wouldnt expect a gadget to make this that much easier

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

get a levellok

www.levellok.com

fully extended i came do 500yd steel shots on 12' steel....here it is NOT extended

 

[brando.john]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

awesome Red Rider

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brando.john</div><div class="ubbcode-body">awesome Red Rider</div></div>


yes i know thank you......it holds minute of squirrel

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

I shoot long in the woods pretty much exclusively. That means clearing a spot for the target (usually digging a flat spot in the side of the hill below the road line) and clearing a shooting position. Generally you will never see me or my target in the woods. So I am always digging.

Things that are always with me and I find useful

- Pick Mattock
- Axe
- Shovel
- Couple of big tarps
- 550 cord

The pick mattock is by far the most handy and will make short work of just about any landscape alteration that needs to happen.

Good luck

 

[Kogapsp]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

I am pretty impressed that you can hit a 12'(foot) steel target at 500 yards with a Red rider.

I use a set of light weight cross sticks. They tend to work the best of me. As for a more stable rest I would go with a tri-pod of longer shots.

 

[Outsydlooknin75]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

Why dont you shoot partner assisted, put your partner on all fours and shoot off his back? Or shoot off his shoulder to give the added height and stability.

 

[Hutch]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

Sitting, kneeling, partner supported, off a tree limb, off one of those tree climbing thingies that bow hunters use, around the head like Hendrix. The options are without limit! Get creative and don't get locked into shooting prone.

 

[TCA4570]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

Ain't none of us pros.
Just working together.
Squad supports team.
How far can you go?

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Koganinja</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am pretty impressed that you can hit a 12'(foot) steel target at 500 yards with a Red rider.

I use a set of light weight cross sticks. They tend to work the best of me. As for a more stable rest I would go with a tri-pod of longer shots.</div></div>


....i'll sign your logbook with a 4' pen if you want....

 

[pj68]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

guys,
I saw a trick using rope as a makeshift sling for shooting. Its wrapped around post/ tree. Make a loop in the rope. The rifle is slipped thru the loop. Very stable for shooting standing shot.

SOTA

 

[Phylodog]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

I use a tripod:

 

[Victory]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

You make the most stable platform to take the shot... there are no square ranges in the real world brother. Tripods are great if you have one or have time to make one. Quit thinking range and think real world.

I'm sure you would surprise yourself with the different ways you could make a stable platform if your buddies lives were in limbo and they depended on you to provide over-watch.

Cheers

 

[LS6TT]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

when all else fails your spotter makes a good rifle rest

 

[brando.john]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

The european always works and really pisses off your buddy

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

In the Corps we were taught how to deliver effective fire in a practical manner, without the help of additional hardware.

There were three positions taught, Offhand, Sitting, and Prone. Lowest is steadiest, and a Marine will always seek the lowest position that provides adequate vision of the target. We were also taught the practical differences between cover and concealment. Available support was not part of the training, but most of us dealt with it as a personal exploration. We learned quickly that rifles will rebound off a hard support.

Greg

 

[TCA4570]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

Quick question.
Do you always shoot prone while hunting?
Most stable way is always best, but might not be prone.
Prone out of the back of pick-up works great.
No truck?
If you were on 4-wheelers, a modified creedmore works too.
Feet on front fenders and gun between knees.

I pass up more shots on deer because of terrain and dragging, than a good sight picture using a pistol.
Only thought is recovery, the rest was automatic.

Sorry to stray.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

SO you mean real world situations don't have cement and pads and shooting matts?

I guess you Adapt, overcome, improvise.

First thing you do is remove the bipod...you should never need it anyway unless you are in a tower or the desert

*Redman and I were shooting from a knoll at 800 yards a couple years ago and I was getting ready to try my hand at an offhand 800 yard shot but the mule deer downrange wanted no part in that.

I've seen inuit indians shoot offhand at 600 yards, highpower shooters - so kneeling or sitting should work even BETTER...

I used a brush pile before I found this gem, 800 yard shots right off the log.

 

[PIGtooth]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

i witnessed a certain gysgt at 1st mar div sniper school score a first round hit with a students gun from the standing at the grand. he is also my personal hero.

 

[sinister]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

Yup. Steve Sultzer in the US Army Marksmanship Unit International Firearms Shop was screwing around with a newly rebuilt 7.62mm M24. He took a scoped off-hand shot at 1,100 yards (1,000 Meters) and hit an E-type silhouette first round. He put the rifle back in the case and started packing up the truck.

Everyone was going crazy, whooping and hollering. He knew to shut up and quit while he was ahead.

 

[Strickland]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

Me and Juan Valdez were out playing at Tiger Valley one day on the 1k range. We had a steel silhouette set up at 1k. After playing with prone, old Juan decides to give it a go in the sitting position.

Boom.....ding....

I sat there and said damnit...I guess I'll have to give it a whirl...

Boom....ding...

We both decided it was best not to attempt another shot ...

 

[Shibumi]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

Proper training addresses these types of issues.

 

[lroseen]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

On this link theres a pic of me in a position I really like.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1176841&page=1

In a sitting position I use my eberlestock pack and place it upright facing away frome me. I place the bipods in the scabbard and with my none fireing hand pull on the handle located at the top of the ruck applying rearward pressure. This is very steady and works great when on the face of a hill where prone is uncomfortable or impossible. You can sit in this position for a very long time. If a sitting position is possible I prefer this over a tripod due to the ability to pull the rifle into your shoulder with the tripod. Not sure where I got the idea of this one but I'm sure somewhere along the line I saw someone else doing something similar if not the same. The big thing is to practice all sorts of different positions so that you can find the one that works for your given situation.

 

[Guest]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any comments would be appreciated. I'm just trying to make the most of that trip by learning about what I might try the next time.</div></div>

Learning fieldcraft is alot harder than learning to shoot, but shooting gets the rave reviews. You can find fluff in everything,... but shooting in the field, is where the rubber meets the road.

 

[JRose]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use a tripod:

</div></div>

Where's that range?!?!?!?

 

[grunt soldier]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

lol i know that range it looks to be down town indianapolis to me. maybe off the top of the jail or city county building

 

[Poundcake]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

I agree the others, bipods really are useless in a lot of real world apps unless you are shooting off a low roof or parapet, and even then you notice how much they jump and move your scope after each shot. A good pack,( I used an alice pack) with foam wrapped around the top of the metal frame works great. But I say my #1 most useful tool in the field is a good sturdy tripod, no 60$ walmart specials, get a heavy duty one that has long legs that can extend out 90 degrees from the base, cut the middle extension tube off flush where the legs connect and you have a tripod that can be used in the prone all the way to the standing. Cut a piece of pvc pipe in half length wise, pad it, glue it to the head and you are ready to rock a roll. I have seen them built with a clamp to hold the rifle on, or undo the rear sling swivel and wrap the sling tightly around the rifle and tripod.....
Other then that, I have used the tops of refrigerators, walls, trucks, bunkers, barrels, you get the point. Just make sure you throw a glove, or sand sock under the forearm when resting your rifle directly on a hard surface. You can also look up instead of down, and hang your sling from a low branch or pipe like a hammock and suspend your rifle from that, not too great but it beats unsupported any day.

 

[PoisonMiller]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: grunt soldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">lol i know that range it looks to be down town indianapolis to me. maybe off the top of the jail or city county building</div></div>

In relation to the capital building and the Hilton the wall is pointing at...

... he was looking down on the Circle from ontop of what appears to be a restaurant.

Google Earth is creepy awesome sometimes...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: What happens when prone shooting doesn't work?

Shooting from a motor vehicle is illegal in NY, and that includes quads.

NYSDEC Regs:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Manner of Taking
It is illegal to take or hunt wildlife:

•while in or on a motor vehicle (except by the holder of a Non Ambulatory Hunter Permit).
•with the aid of a vehicle's lights.
•on or from any public road.
•with any firearm equipped with a silencer.
•with any firearm which continues to fire as long as the trigger is held back (an automatic firearm).
•with a spear.
•with a bow equipped with any mechanical device which is attached to the bow (other than the bowstring) for drawing, holding or releasing the bowstring, except for a hunter with a disability who is in possession of a Modified Archer Permit (compound bows are legal).
•with a spear gun or crossbow except for a hunter with a disability who is in possession of a Modified Crossbow Permit.
•with an arrow with an explosive head or shaft.
•with any device designed or intended to deliver drugs to an animal.
•with any semi-automatic firearm with a capacity to hold more than 6 rounds, EXCEPT the following semi-automatic firearms:

1. firearms using .22 or .17 caliber rimfire ammunition, or
2. firearms altered to reduce their capacity to no more than 6 shells at one time in the magazine and chamber combined, or
3. autoloading pistols with a barrel length of less than eight inches. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Rifle-is a firearm with a barrel length of at least 16 inches with rifling in the barrel that uses metallic cartridges.

Shotgun-is a firearm with a barrel length of at least 18 inches that uses shells that are nonmetallic except for the base.
</div></div>