Why AI?

[morganlamprecht]

Sure AI has a great history of reliability, but there are customs that see 10k + rounds/year from competitors as well. Aside from Jacob what’s the next highest known round count on an AI? Cause it sure isn’t a military unit putting 10k+ rounds/year on their AI’s.

Mine was between 15-20k rounds easily when I quit shooting it in matches

I know of another AW in south tx that was probably in the 30-40k range

My 2 impacts both had like 5k and 8-10k on them when I pretty much quit shooting matches and the only failures/hangups with them was triggers…1 BnA and 1 TT diamond iirc

The majority of all those rounds where under match conditions also, not on casual range under ideal conditions

 

[Covertnoob5]

Mine was between 15-20k rounds easily when I quit shooting it in matches

I know of another AW in south tx that was probably in the 30-40k range

My 2 impacts both had like 5k and 8-10k on them when I pretty much quit shooting matches and the only failures/hangups with them was triggers…1 BnA and 1 TT diamond iirc

The majority of all those rounds where under match conditions also, not on casual range under ideal conditions

Right. My point is it’s competitive shooters putting 10k+ rounds down range per year. Not military etc. So if guys are putting that many rounds down range a year thru a custom action it should speak to the fact that they’re just as reliable as an AI. If top guys truly thought an AI would give them an advantage they’d be shooting that. I understand sponsorship as much as anyone, but top guys won’t risk being at a disadvantage for anything. Maybe a mid pack sponsored shooter or some other guy. Would Morgun King shoot an AI if they gave him a free rifle vs a free lone peak? No. Would morgun shoot an impact over a lone peak? At that point I think it comes down to relationships, preference etc. Cause LP and impact are so close it wouldn’t make a difference. Point being he and others aren’t shooting AI’s because they don’t provide some sort of advantage over a custom anymore.

And to anyone that says top guys don’t shoot AI’s cause they don’t give away free rifles, you’re right they don’t except prize table circumstances. But that’s a bullshit logic. Tangent doesn’t sponsor and shooters and yet they were the #2 most popular scope among the top shooters. Those guys had to buy their scopes. They do so because obviously they feel shooting a Tangent gives them the advantage they want/require to compete.
I like shooting my AI, but I’m not gonna fool myself into thinking it gives me an advantage over my CDG or something else.

 

[stanley_white]

I forgot that the last week of July is “Primary Purpose Military Rifle vs Primary Purpose Competition Rifle Context Arguments” on The Hide.

I shall add it to my calendar for next year so I do not forget.

-Stan

 

[morganlamprecht]

my AT woulda given me an advantage the 2x my triggers went down lol

But that wasn’t my point, I was just giving known round counts

I think any of the top shooters now could put an AI on the podium if they shot one…I did it with an AI and customs, they could too. But it’s just a preference

 

[Covertnoob5]

my AT woulda given me an advantage the 2x my triggers went down lol

But that wasn’t my point, I was just giving known round counts

I think any of the top shooters now could put an AI on the podium if they shot one…I did it with an AI and customs, they could too. But it’s just a preference

Until you’re the guy that has an AI trigger go down (happened to me at a 2 day match in AZ). It’s all the same, a Diamond can go down and so can an AI trigger. Sure a top guy probably could make an AI work if they really wanted too but the fact that no one does should speak volumes.
The Oklahoma guys felt the Tangent gives them enough of an advantage that they designed their own reticle and bought a shit ton of them to get it done. That’s making something work because you believe in it.

 

[Huskydriver]

Until you’re the guy that has an AI trigger go down (happened to me at a 2 day match in AZ). It’s all the same, a Diamond can go down and so can an AI trigger. Sure a top guy probably could make an AI work if they really wanted too but the fact that no one does should speak volumes.
The Oklahoma guys felt the Tangent gives them enough of an advantage that they designed their own reticle and bought a shit ton of them to get it done. That’s making something work because you believe in it.

Comp trigger or og?

 

[taliv]

Other than wx, and blowing dust/sand in some areas, are PRS matches really a standard for hardship for rifles anymore?
IMHO in the early years of PRS and especially before, I think they got knocked around pretty good. But barricade benchrest?

My rifles and scopes would come back with scars when I shot at RO back when you had to do things like sling it and crawl through concrete pipes. Or banging the gun around a little on grind it out type stages, or climbing obstacles. I remember laying in 6” of water in a MO match in pouring rain. And getting banged up pretty good sliding down rocks in NM. And gumbo in everything in TX at Elpers place. But when game changers and tripods came along, and the matches turned into low movement, high round count, homogenized cof to efficiently move 200+ shooters instead of 80…it seems less than the crucible it once was.

ETA I didn’t mean to come off so uphill in the snow both ways…. I just don’t think x,000 rounds in matches is “hard use” or an indicator of durability anymore.

 

[M_R_Woodard]

They make great deer rifles.

 

[Covertnoob5]

Comp trigger or og?

Comp

 

[Covertnoob5]

Other than wx, and blowing dust/sand in some areas, are PRS matches really a standard for hardship for rifles anymore?
IMHO in the early years of PRS and especially before, I think they got knocked around pretty good. But barricade benchrest?

My rifles and scopes would come back with scars when I shot at RO back when you had to do things like sling it and crawl through concrete pipes. Or banging the gun around a little on grind it out type stages, or climbing obstacles. I remember laying in 6” of water in a MO match in pouring rain. And getting banged up pretty good sliding down rocks in NM. And gumbo in everything in TX at Elpers place. But when game changers and tripods came along, and the matches turned into low movement, high round count, homogenized cof to efficiently move 200+ shooters instead of 80…it seems less than the crucible it once was.

ETA I didn’t mean to come off so uphill in the snow both ways…. I just don’t think x,000 rounds in matches is “hard use” or an indicator of durability anymore.

I think your example speaks more to the durability of the weapon system and by that I mean scope, mount, etc. Crawling through pipes won’t really tell me how durable a firing pin or spring or trigger is vs if I bang said rifle in the pipe the scope might lose zero or suppressor might be affected. Might also test what’s stronger or more resistant to abrasions an aluminum chassis or a composite stock like a manners, etc. If I bang the barrel it might tell me if the quick change system on my AI is at sturdy as a barrel torqued to 100ft/lbs with regards to a zero shift.
Putting 10k rounds through a rifle without replacing or breaking a firing pin, spring, ejector, etc. Is durability being shown in its own right.

 

[TheBigCountry]

Has @Hecouldgoalltheway bought a rifle yet?

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Has @Hecouldgoalltheway bought a rifle yet?

I was looking at them today on europtic. Honestly, the factory chamberings and barrel length configurations available leave a bit to be desired. I realize the barrel availability is one of the things that make them so cool, but paying $5k+ for a 20" 308 or a 26" 6.5cm excites me like a general hospital marathon.

 

[Nik H]

But new components and actions have come a long ways. For the type of shooting 99% of us here do, a well built custom will be every bit as reliable as an AI.

Reliable means different things to different people.

I'd love to see any custom build survive the testing that AIs are put through. People forget about that fact. Your AI will work the same way in any weather or environment.

When a custom builder can prove their product is as robust using data collected over large sample populations, I will agree. It will never happen for many reasons.

I shoot AIs because they are consistently accurate regardless of the environment.

 

[Nik H]

The argument for the AI reliability is that it stems back many years to the early AW’s. The AI unlike many custom actions and triggers has a very long track record of success to back it.

It’s not until comp trigger and the ATX that it really become a conversation. At that point it entered the conversations in prs which the original designed AI was never technically for in the first place.

When these custom actions and triggers have seen as many rounds as some AI’s out there then they can stake claims to long term reliability

MRADS don’t have the track record close to AI either

MRADS suck elephant dick

 

[Nik H]

The Oklahoma guys felt the Tangent gives them enough of an advantage that they designed their own reticle and bought a shit ton of them to get it done. That’s making something work because you believe in it.

JTAC is awesome

 

[ColbyLang]

They make great deer rifles.
View attachment 8467152

I use my AE MkIII frequently in the stand lol

 

[TheBigCountry]

I was looking at them today on europtic. Honestly, the factory chamberings and barrel length configurations available leave a bit to be desired. I realize the barrel availability is one of the things that make them so cool, but paying $5k+ for a 20" 308 or a 26" 6.5cm excites me like a general hospital marathon.

Used is your friend

 

[TheOE800]

MRADS suck elephant dick

That’s just like your opinion, man.

 

[Huskydriver]

Comp

Well that's no surprise that trigger is garbage lol

 

[Huskydriver]

MRADS suck elephant dick

Gunna get @rustyinbend in a tizzy

 

[TheBigCountry]

Well that's no surprise that trigger is garbage lol

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Hey guys, help me out here please.

What's the post '14 deal?
Why am I to avoid pre-2014 rifles? What else do I avoid? What's do you get for almost double the money between the two models they make? (I realize they make more than 2, but you know what I mean).

 

[diggler1833]

Hey guys, help me out here please.

What's the post '14 deal?
Why am I to avoid pre-2014 rifles? What else do I avoid? What's do you get for almost double the money between the two models they make? (I realize they make more than 2, but you know what I mean).

QC barrels.

 

[kthomas]

Reliable means different things to different people.

I'd love to see any custom build survive the testing that AIs are put through. People forget about that fact. Your AI will work the same way in any weather or environment.

When a custom builder can prove their product is as robust using data collected over large sample populations, I will agree. It will never happen for many reasons.

I shoot AIs because they are consistently accurate regardless of the environment.

I don't disagree with this.

AIs are built to withstand extreme environments with little extra care. There are many little nuances to AI design that makes them great military rifles. Kind of like KAC.

I certainly wouldn't fault someone for buying an AI, for these reasons or others.

At the end of the day, buy what you want. If you want an AI because of its military pedigree, you don't have to justify that to anyone. They are great rifles.

 

[Huskydriver]

Hey guys, help me out here please.

What's the post '14 deal?
Why am I to avoid pre-2014 rifles? What else do I avoid? What's do you get for almost double the money between the two models they make? (I realize they make more than 2, but you know what I mean).

Lfp vs sfp, handguard is different.... No QC barrels

 

[LeftyJason]

I forgot that the last week of July is “Primary Purpose Military Rifle vs Primary Purpose Competition Rifle Context Arguments” on The Hide.

I shall add it to my calendar for next year so I do not forget.

-Stan

Sounds like someone needs to put together a SH Argument Calendar. It can join MIL vs MOA February.

 

[hafejd30]

Hey guys, help me out here please.

What's the post '14 deal?
Why am I to avoid pre-2014 rifles? What else do I avoid? What's do you get for almost double the money between the two models they make? (I realize they make more than 2, but you know what I mean).

As mentioned the 2014+ models are QC barrel. The 2015 models introduced the small firing pin. Which is preferred for 6.5/6 mm cartridges.

I wouldn’t buy a AI new. I don’t think they’re worth the $6500 or $10,000 + price tag in todays market

But used market they’re decent.

 

[DKN83]

Hey guys, help me out here please.

What's the post '14 deal?
Why am I to avoid pre-2014 rifles? What else do I avoid? What's do you get for almost double the money between the two models they make? (I realize they make more than 2, but you know what I mean).

Firearms - 2014 AI AT

This sucks, but this needs a new home. 2014 AI AT folder, thumbhole conversion installed, 308 with a 20” threaded Bartlein (unsure of round count but it’s a hammer with FGMM) Has an AO thumb rest installed, as well as the Sawtooth Arca Rail. Rifle has been rattlecan painted by yours truly...

www.snipershide.com

One hell of a deal. If i would live in the united states this would be mine already....

 

[Nik H]

That’s just like your opinion, man.

Moose dick…is that better?

 

[TheBigCountry]

Firearms - 2014 AI AT

This sucks, but this needs a new home. 2014 AI AT folder, thumbhole conversion installed, 308 with a 20” threaded Bartlein (unsure of round count but it’s a hammer with FGMM) Has an AO thumb rest installed, as well as the Sawtooth Arca Rail. Rifle has been rattlecan painted by yours truly...

www.snipershide.com

One hell of a deal. If i would live in the united states this would be mine already....

Yeah that’s my rifle and it needs a home. Divorce sucks.

 

[HKSniper11B]

Hey guys, help me out here please.

What's the post '14 deal?
Why am I to avoid pre-2014 rifles? What else do I avoid? What's do you get for almost double the money between the two models they make? (I realize they make more than 2, but you know what I mean).

They're all fine. But, they changed the barrel profile post 2014 from a "lighter" (mind you, it is still quite a heavy contour) 1:12 twist 4R barrel made by Lothar Walther, and switched to a 1:10 twist 5R barrel with an even heavier contour made by Bartlein/Wintac. Mind you, this is for .308.

The newer barrels perform incredibly well and are more agreeable to modern ballistics and modern rounds. You can always get a new barrel, so I suggest getting what you want and what is within your budget, then getting a barrel you want down the road. Else, just buy with the barrel you want in the first place, and send it. Honestly, you can't go wrong and there's no rifle that is "flawed" that needs to be avoided... except the AW50. I won't go near that thing after reading how it was designed.

 

[Criver600]

Hey guys, help me out here please.

What's the post '14 deal?
Why am I to avoid pre-2014 rifles? What else do I avoid? What's do you get for almost double the money between the two models they make? (I realize they make more than 2, but you know what I mean).

Post 2014.......The large firing pin worked fine for most factory ammunition. Handholds typically are "over-pressure" cratered and pierced primers (which damage bolt faces) forced the move to a smaller diameter firing pin.

Why AI?

 

[tomirwin]

Yes. So it's not his stuff getting damaged and he's not paying for the repairs.

To probably have their rifles damaged after being chucked off a roof. There are a lot of things on a rifle that could get damaged without it ceasing to function. And those more minor damages are not desirable to people with $10,000 rifles.

I agree. This is why putting out challenges that you know no one is going to take (because people who spend their own $10,000 on their rifle don't want to intentionally damage them) qualifies as cheap talk. It's like if people were arguing over which rifles were more precise and he said "Pay for your own airfare to come prove it on my home range". Again, I think AIs are probably more reliable as a system just by virtue of the trigger being a limiting factor for Remington clones. But his challenge is stupid and nonsensical.

I just read the post stating that I made a challenge to drop an AI off a two story building.
I would like to make it clear that I never made such a challenge or anything like that.
If there is a post I made which remotely relates to that claim then show it.
Tom Irwin

 

[NateVA]

I just read the post stating that I made a challenge to drop an AI off a two story building.
I would like to make it clear that I never made such a challenge or anything like that.
If there is a post I made which remotely relates to that claim then show it.
Tom Irwin

That's a relief to hear since it was a puzzling concept to begin with. Another person made that claim earlier in this thread so I (and others) were just responding to him. His post is the one below. Environmental stuff makes perfect sense, less so with two story drops.

A few years ago on here there was a thread and guys were talking about how tough their various custom rifles were and reliable. Tom Irwin from AINA offered to test anyone's rifle against an Ax or At in 2 story drops and enviromental tests, pretty sure that thread just went quiet, lmao.

 

[CageFighter]

View attachment 8208143

View attachment 8208144

nice! -what length barrel is that??

 

[6brshooter]

Comp trigger or og?

100 doll hairs say it was a mis-adjusted comp trigger

 

[Covertnoob5]

100 doll hairs say it was a mis-adjusted comp trigger

Out of the box comp trigger. Never touched it.

 

[6brshooter]

I just read the post stating that I made a challenge to drop an AI off a two story building.
I would like to make it clear that I never made such a challenge or anything like that.
If there is a post I made which remotely relates to that claim then show it.
Tom Irwin

I could of swore it was you, but I must be wrong. It's been 4-6yrs ago(maybe longer ago, time flies) I do remember it was a big AI proponent from the old hide days. It was a mic drop moment. I mis-spoke and my apologies to Tom and everyone one else.

 

[Huskydriver]

100 doll hairs say it was a mis-adjusted comp trigger

I had 2 fail from the bag...0 adjustment

 

[6brshooter]

I had 2 fail from the box....0 adjustment

Ouch. I had one for an AT, it was way too light for what I wanted so went back to factory AT and tweaked it a bit.

 

[HKSniper11B]

I had 2 fail from the bag...0 adjustment

Funny enough the AI Competition Trigger is one of the few rare parts left today that AI does not make themselves, but it is subcontracted from another company that specializes in competition triggers: XTSP Rugged Precision. So all said -- and with consideration of the ASR competition with their trigger failing -- I sincerely and genuinely hope that some day, AI puts out their own competition trigger, made in house, for all their rifle models from the AW onward.

 

[Huskydriver]

Ouch. I had one for an AT, it was way too light for what I wanted so went back to factory AT and tweaked it a bit.

My og adjusted triggers are perfect and have yet to let me down

 

[Huskydriver]

Funny enough the AI Competition Trigger is one of the few rare parts left today that AI does not make themselves, but it is subcontracted from another company that specializes in competition triggers. I'll edit this post when I find the name from my records.

Bro... We all know who it is acting like you are teaching us stuff lol

Xtreme shooting

 

[HKSniper11B]

Bro... We all know who it is acting like you are teaching us stuff lol

Xtreme shooting

Since the part isn't made by AI... its relevant to the discussion about what parts fail. Then again... probably better for the AI photo thread discussing this. That said, OP wouldn't know this and its important to say out loud for anyone else who 1) doesn't know 2) doesn't know about their history of failures and 3) anyone who comes across this thread in the future wanting to know about this.

Try not to take it personally @Huskydriver

 

[TheOE800]

Since the part isn't made by AI... its relevant to the discussion about what parts fail.

Bit of devil’s advocate…What does it matter if it’s not AI-produced? It’s packaged in the final product AI sells and it’s failed.

 

[kthomas]

Bit of devil’s advocate…What does it matter if it’s not AI-produced? It’s packaged in the final product AI sells and it’s failed.

And let's not forget - AI produced parts fail as well.

I've seen AI's go down in matches about as much as any other rifle.

 

[Huskydriver]

Since the part isn't made by AI... its relevant to the discussion about what parts fail. Then again... probably better for the AI photo thread discussing this. That said, OP wouldn't know this and its important to say out loud for anyone else who 1) doesn't know 2) doesn't know about their history of failures and 3) anyone who comes across this thread in the future wanting to know about this.

Try not to take it personally @Huskydriver

I'm not its been discussed here in multiple threads ad nauseum... Including the ai reps for years.. ..

Trying to get you to save your energy....Your acting like you telling people something new. We know....

 

[HKSniper11B]

And let's not forget - AI produced parts fail as well.

I've seen AI's go down in matches about as much as any other rifle.

What parts have you seen fail, specifically? How did they fail?

 

[Huskydriver]

And let's not forget - AI produced parts fail as well.

I've seen AI's go down in matches about as much as any other rifle.

Ah shit here we go again lol... Well apparently according to @HKSniper11B .... The Irish have ais have never had to replace a part in 35 years so no they don't fail @kthomas

 

[kthomas]

What parts have you seen fail, specifically? How did they fail?

Issues with firing assemblies and other such issues.

AIs can fail, just like anything else made by humans.