Rifle Scopes Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

[BigBrother]

Hey guys. I was wondering if one of the USO guys could chime in here as to what happened with this latest bid to replace the Unertls. Not looking for anything inflammatory or classified, just a basic rundown, as I'm really surprised it went to a foreign contractor. I know it's not unheard of, but I'm just surprised and would love to get the rundown on their criteria, how it played out, etc. Thanks!

EDIT - there seems to be some confusion over which bid I'm talking about. I just mean the SSDS one, that's it.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

I had not heard, but WHO was the winner?

 

[BigBrother]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

Why S&B, of course.

 

[Turk]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

Evidently they failed the waterproof testing; that has since been resolved!

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

Roger that, just wanted to know for sure...Too busy with Army stuff! :-D

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

I heard that USO did get the SOCOM contract to provide scopes for the Special Operations community. I also understand that they are producing scopes for the Canadian Army. Any validity to those?

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

This sounds like deja vu all over again! Are you talking about the USMC SSDS contract of a few years ago, or a very recent award? If a recent contract, then you should be asking why both Premiere and USO did not get the award.

 

[BigBrother]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

Sorry, by recent I meant the SSDS. No, nothing new AFAIK.

 

[Turk]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This sounds like deja vu all over again! Are you talking about the USMC SSDS contract of a few years ago, or a very recent award? If a recent contract, then you should be asking why both Premiere and USO did not get the award. </div></div>
Perhaps it wasn't awarded yet!

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

Sigh...

 

[chad3]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

We'll have to see what the next generation comes to bring...
We have a few options from what I have seen.

 

[sickeness]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I heard that USO did get the SOCOM contract to provide scopes for the Special Operations community. I also understand that they are producing scopes for the Canadian Army. Any validity to those? </div></div>

USO was rejected for the SOCOM bid because of unspecified problems with reliability and using the wrong reticles. USO was also rejected by the Canadian military which is why they were selling off the Canadian contract scopes at a discount price last year. I have no idea as to why the SSDS was rejected.

 

[hcsd54]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

Interesting! Has there been an apparent change in USO quality, or are politics involved?

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

Probably more politics than anything. Every scope maker has had at least one or two failures due to a slip in quality. It also prolly came down to features. I dont know what exactly the are looking for, if you look at the Unertls they were fixed power, 1 inch main tube, standard mildots (oval), and the only really custom feature was the BDC elevation turret. The PMII has a lot more in regards to features. All are premium scopes that I would need to re-mortgage my house to afford.

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

because s&b probably gave them a better offer price wise. we all know that uso can stand up to any test the military can throw at it. its like the body armor dragon skin, it wont be put to use because of the price

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: s.i.t.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">because s&b probably gave them a better offer price wise. we all know that uso can stand up to any test the military can throw at it. its like the body armor dragon skin, it wont be put to use because of the price </div></div>

^This. It's not always about which item is best, it's about what item meets the minimum requirements and is the cheapest. Eh, we could do a lot worse than adopting S&B scopes. Hell, I'd love to have one. Whether it boils down to politics or price per unit, at least the military isn't going with bargain basement glass for its servicemembers.

 

[7mmRM]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

The S&B is a superior scope all the way around. Sure the USMC got them at discounted price, which is GREAT!!!! You would too if you ordered a several thousand of them. At any rate good for USMC, they got the better scope at a discounted price, and it was a good for us the tax payers!! Win/win/win!!!

 

[Lindy]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

Agreed.

At the time of that award, FFP scopes with mildot reticles, good glass, and mil/mil adjustments were thin on the ground.

Now they are less so, with both Premier and Nightforce entries into that market.

More choice is good. That means the military - and the rest of us - have a pick from good scopes which are essentially functionally identical, i.e., you could transition a shooter from one to another in a single day.

That's a good thing.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

S&B SSDS's had to be mae by Premier because we couldn't award that contract to a foreign manufacturer, no?

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S&B SSDS's had to be mae by Premier because we couldn't award that contract to a foreign manufacturer, no? </div></div>

Hope that;s true support our own !!!1

 

[MtGoat]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

It is called the Berry Act I believe. As you can see there are ways to circumvent the act. Some companies have purchased others just for their govt contract (Michaels of Oregon) then blew the company apart and took manufacturing to a US protectorate for manufacturing rather than leave it in tact. Blackhawk purchased the old MOO plant in Meridian Idaho and is manufacturing domestically now (maybe the Berry Act does have some advantages

).

Premier, US Optics, Leupold, NightForce all have scopes that qualify as US produced (several are totally US manufactured...but some foreign parts....like glass)

Pat

 

[kombayotch]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I heard that USO did get the SOCOM contract to provide scopes for the Special Operations community. I also understand that they are producing scopes for the Canadian Army. Any validity to those? </div></div>

Nope, they also went with S&B, which is why there are all of those USO "Canadian" scopes floating around...

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

What scope did SOCOM go with?

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

i believe NF or S&B

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

What was up with the picture of the two Marines with the XM-3 set up on what looked like an oil rig? The XM-3 had a NF on it.

Just testing?

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

nope the xm3 is issued with a NF on it.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I heard that USO did get the SOCOM contract to provide scopes for the Special Operations community. I also understand that they are producing scopes for the Canadian Army. Any validity to those? </div></div>

I also heard that Night Force did as well.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What scope did SOCOM go with? </div></div>

Night Force from what I was told

 

[Psywar1-0]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

There is more to winning a Govt contract than just building the better mousetrap.

You could build the best 300WM suppressor known to man, but if you do it in a pole barn out back of your house in a residential zoned area, with only you and your cousin as employee's, and only produce 3 a week working in the evenings, your not going to get that contract.

 

[Pinco Palla]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Evidently they failed the waterproof testing; that has since been resolved! </div></div>

Funny reply indeed ( no flame intended )

, when we talk about USO there is always something that needed to be fixed .

One time I was in love with USO stuff , infact I bought 4 or 5 of their scopes , then I had serious issues with all of them , but that's a very old story indeed ..... however the answer to the main question of this thread is quite simple :

Because other manufacturer's products ( Schmidt & Bender ) were quite better .

PP out

 

[NOMISS]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

+1 7mmRM There are four points that the military will always look at when procuring anything...
1) Requirement
2) Performance
3) Politic's
4) Price
I am sure the US snipers on the ground had their say on the Schmidt and Bender PM2's while cross training with UK and German snipers both in Iraq/Afghanistan and international competition.
Schmidt and Bender have been around a long time and although USO make excellent scopes maybe they havn't as much experience in making scopes as S+B, and because they are a smaller company their cost per unit is higher, i have never owned a USO but i understand that they are a completely outstanding piece of equipment, i do however own a Schmidt and Bender PM2 and it has the highest resolution and quality both mechanical and durability of a telescope i have ever owned, the optics are simply what i would expect nothing less of from a company like Schmidt and Bender, and if it is an out-sourced scope - at least the troops have a completely A1 piece of equipment to help 'send' the message.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

From my understanding, the water test failure in the USO went directly to an individual in the shop using the wrong part on the assembly area that leaked. This was immedietely fixed and the scope ran through sea water at speed.
You can have your foreign stuff. Me, I care not what kind of issues USO has/had. Their customer service is the best, and their optics systems are the toughest I have used. So what if I have loyalty to one scope company. No sweat on me! I just have less scopes than everyone else

 

[96C]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pinco Palla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought 4 or 5 of their scopes , then I had serious issues with all of them</div></div>

Too much money you have... Time to share it is?

 

[Lindy]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...directly to an individual in the shop using the wrong part on the assembly area that leaked.</div></div>

I think that if one were going to send units out to be subjected to tests on which a lot of money was riding, it would be a good idea to ensure beforehand that the units being sent would pass the tests. But, hey, that's just me...

 

[JRose]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

These threads amuse me...

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These threads amuse me... </div></div>

couldnt agree with you more. Everyone has their opinion on what the DOD should have done and know every thing about the DOD contract procurements

 

[shane45]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

Man I run short on memmory these days but IIRC because Canada went S&B, for some reason(NATO???) the USMC could ride that contract as well which entered into the decision making process....

 

[BigBrother]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man I run short on memmory these days but IIRC because Canada went S&B for some reason(NATO???) the USMC could ride that contract as well which entered into the decision making process.... </div></div>

That's really interesting. Do you know if they both now sport the same exact optic?

 

[Turk]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...directly to an individual in the shop using the wrong part on the assembly area that leaked.</div></div>

I think that if one were going to send units out to be subjected to tests on which a lot of money was riding, it would be a good idea to ensure beforehand that the units being sent would pass the tests. But, hey, that's just me...


</div></div>
I think the space shuttle probably had some extensive testing regarding "O" rings, but we all know how that worked out! Sometimes stuff just happens!

 

[Brain]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These threads amuse me... </div></div>

And me as well...

If anyone has ever been involved with DOD RFQ, contracts, awards, award dispute, lawsuits filed contesting awards for cause, contract resolution, modification, etc... They would know nothing is ever as it publicly seems.

To pit one product against another on the basis of DOD contract award is pointless at best.

 

[BigBrother]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

Well, this is why I was hoping someone from USO would chime in with at least some very high-level explanation. Notice I never called the thread "OMG USO sux they lost the DOD contract"

Basically, as they're US based, I would like to know what factors went into the decision. The post right above about Canada already going with S&B so having an easier contract to ride is very interesting- that's the sort of info I was looking for, rather than a dead horse beating, who's-the-best-scope thread

 

[Pinco Palla]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 96C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pinco Palla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought 4 or 5 of their scopes , then I had serious issues with all of them</div></div>

Too much money you have... Time to share it is?

</div></div>

..... you know what ?
You never have too much money for buying new toys , is not it ?

Stay safe,
PP out

 

[Emilio]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

Good answer.

 

[pklin1297]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBrother</div><div class="ubbcode-body">rather than a dead horse beating, who's-the-best-scope thread

</div></div>

Even though this may not be your intention, these threads often get turned into exactly the kind of thread you are trying to avoid...

 

[idahojay]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

I do not know why USO lost out on the contract, be it politics or maybe they just wanted some thing different.

I do know this however!

I am 48 years old and have spent my whole life in the manufacturing industry. Starting out by growing up in my Fathers plant. It REALLY pisses me off that our government will spend our tax dollars on overseas equipment for our troops. As long as the foriegn company sets up a satilite office here in the states there in. They wisk our tax dollars overseas to there land. So keep working real hard boys because foriegn lands need your money,,,oh ya, keep drinking butwipper beer too.
The manufacturing industry in this country has been in a death spirel for many years now and it will get much worse.

Jay Seaquist

 

[300WSM]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

+1000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These threads amuse me... </div></div>

 

[Buldog]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

Cash for Clunkers?

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 96C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pinco Palla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought 4 or 5 of their scopes , then I had serious issues with all of them</div></div>

Too much money you have... Time to share it is?

</div></div>

If you think 4 or 5 USO's is an indicator, have you seen PP's gunsafe???


DOD contracts don't go to the best product, its a whole myriad of politics, logistics and who can throw in the most crap (ask SigSauer)......

 

[7mmRM]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
DOD contracts don't go to the best product, its a whole myriad of politics, logistics and who can throw in the most crap (ask SigSauer)...... </div></div>

While I generally agree with what you are saying, I do think that in this particular instance they got the best product. Especially for what was available at the time the contract was awarded.

 

[Tuna921]

Re: Why did USO not get the USMC contract?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
DOD contracts don't go to the best product, its a whole myriad of politics, logistics and who can throw in the most crap (ask SigSauer)...... </div></div>

While I generally agree with what you are saying, I do think that in this particular instance they got the best product. Especially for what was available at the time the contract was awarded. </div></div>

+1