Harris doesn't suck! c'mon.....old sure, older tech yes, but still functional
I like the GG&G but Harris is rock solid and you know exactly what you get. that has value
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Why is larue never compared?
- Thread starter sheepdog697
- Start date
I like the GG&G but Harris is rock solid and you know exactly what you get. that has value
The only thing relevant about Larue today is his "Fuck you, Bill" $100ish MBT triggers...because fuck paying 3x that for "Super Duper" that's only marginally better
And Harris still has a corner cut out for springy-boy DMR gamer bipods that can be deployed in a fraction of a second and be put back as fast by dragging the gun back while the feet are still in contact with the ground (or whatever). Waiting on someone to take care of that so we can be free of the perishable sheetmetal tubing bipods once and for all.
And Harris still has a corner cut out for springy-boy DMR gamer bipods that can be deployed in a fraction of a second and be put back as fast by dragging the gun back while the feet are still in contact with the ground (or whatever). Waiting on someone to take care of that so we can be free of the perishable sheetmetal tubing bipods once and for all.
I recommend using the CA AST trigger. It's a schmidt tool but Monte said they are done to his specs and it's incredibly smooth, quick take up, no creep, very crisp snap. I started using these when LaRue raised his trigger to over 100 as I agree, the Gs are too much. only 1 is worth it and that is when it's 150 on sale. I really think laws of diminishing return apply here
I used that trigger and a CA set for a build for one of my officers. It was an OK trigger, but lately much of the CA stuff has not impressed me for various reasons (even though I will grant one of the finest AR barrels I've ever had was a CA mk12 SPR barrel)
Mostly outta square and causing an inconsistent recoil pulse.
If you look at the angle of the legs, they often create skewed angle, which under recoil, make you shoot weird. Many adapt to it, which we all did, but if you catch it quick you can demonstrate a better result faster with a better bipod.
Also many can’t tighten the Harris correctly so it moves left or right under recoil, on top of easily being pushed right by the cheek, causing a cant in the scope which is then exaggerated by pulling the rifle to the right with the bolt, mean an observable curve in their groups and shots at distance that many called SD.
So it’s easy to see if you sit 2ft from a shooter day in and out watching them behind various bipods. Sure they work to a point, but you need to be much more careful with them vs the alternative
If you look at the angle of the legs, they often create skewed angle, which under recoil, make you shoot weird. Many adapt to it, which we all did, but if you catch it quick you can demonstrate a better result faster with a better bipod.
Also many can’t tighten the Harris correctly so it moves left or right under recoil, on top of easily being pushed right by the cheek, causing a cant in the scope which is then exaggerated by pulling the rifle to the right with the bolt, mean an observable curve in their groups and shots at distance that many called SD.
So it’s easy to see if you sit 2ft from a shooter day in and out watching them behind various bipods. Sure they work to a point, but you need to be much more careful with them vs the alternative
I ran Harris back in the day like we all did but now that I have a bunch of Atlas bipods I would not go back for any reason.
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,697
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I prefer my accu-tac over the atlas lately. The Harris I keep around for rifles with no rails. I also keep a set of GG&G around for the scar16.
One day I’ll branch out and try a few other brands.
I own two LMT lowers and four uppers. One 18” 6 ARC, one 16” DI, one 16” piston, one 12.5” piston. Both lowers and all the uppers have functioned flawlessly. All the rifle combinations shoot better than 2 MOA. The D Wilson 6 ARC barrel is giving me sub 1 moa. My only gripe with them is product availability.
How old is everything you just mentioned? Seemed like everyone is saying lately their QC and CS has been bad.
I slept in a days inn once............so what lol JK, been waiting to use that line
it's not even debatable that since the move to Iowa, QC is 'PSA spec' as is the new term. I personally have sent back 4 things in less than a year with 2 being ebolts. I mean, they don't even make a lot of them and I had to send two out of spec back. Do we need to even discuss the upper and lower alignment patterns, upper receivers off cut with crooked barrel placement, gas tube holes off center, sights that are literally falling apart on rifles etc etc? Until they sort it out, stay away is my advice or buy from someone who is selling and you know it's fine.
glad you haven't had any issues though
for the record, I say this a huge LMT fan that has stepped away
curious what you didn't like about it and what I may be missing? reviews are pretty good on it
The trigger itself was fine, but at the time in a pound-for-pound "Vs." of the $95ish triggers, I thought the MBT was a better trigger pull in line with my preferences. That said, I feel MBT triggers need to be aggressively dehorned on the edges of the trigger face.
I'm just a little soured on a few other things CA. The trigger/pin holes were a few thou too big and there was play there. Had some gas sealing issues with the fit of the gas block to barrel and gas tube to gas block fit on the last few CA barrels and i've not been thrilled that their barrel extensions slide right into and have play in thermo-fit required uppers.
I know you're high on 'em and that's cool. That's just been my take on em as of the last few years.
no it's all good, no one is perfect and they pump out crap from time to time. I'm no brand loyalist, I only go with what works, is reliable, accurate, etc. but yes, they have shit the bed at times too.
Monte and Corrie are good people and have bent over backward for me in the past. I think that's why the little things like a few thou here and minor fit there hits hard with me....you ran the ball 99 yards and fumbled at the goal line.
Ain't nobody perfect and I've got "Bro...really, WTF is this shit?" specimens from pretty much any big name with a fanboy following.
This is really disappointingI slept in a days inn once............so what lol JK, been waiting to use that line
it's not even debatable that since the move to Iowa, QC is 'PSA spec' as is the new term. I personally have sent back 4 things in less than a year with 2 being ebolts. I mean, they don't even make a lot of them and I had to send two out of spec back. Do we need to even discuss the upper and lower alignment patterns, upper receivers off cut with crooked barrel placement, gas tube holes off center, sights that are literally falling apart on rifles etc etc? Until they sort it out, stay away is my advice or buy from someone who is selling and you know it's fine.
glad you haven't had any issues though
for the record, I say this a huge LMT fan that has stepped away
Accutac I hear is great too but I’m not buying one as long as they all look like a goth kid’s drawing of a bipod
Glad to see this. I know the guy that makes them for GG&G. His company puts out a good product.
Thank you for your meaningful insight.
Many Years ago I swore off bipod's , since I always shot better off of bags.
The bipod I used was a Harris. ( Since it was a respected well made brand at the time. ) I couldn't get the consistency I wanted out of it... ever.
And I tried awfully hard to make that Harris work... but the bags made it far easier to get better results
Now I suspect I understand why.
I will have to give a newer bipod a try.
As for the Centurion AST ... I have seen Dvorak TriggerScan system results of it, it is a smoother trigger then other Schmid versions that manufacturers sell.
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I hear LaWhu is putting out a new autographed shooting bag modeled after a hurt pu**y- it's gonna be called the Snatch Scratch. Obviously only available filled with sand.
great bipods that can take an incredible amount of abuse and they don't move unnecessarily.
I love my ASTs, even swapped out all other triggers for them except 1 SSE
I've been specc'ing up a CA build and been looking at the triggers. I'm not thrilled with the SSA (nothing wrong with it, just not "my thing"). How would you say the 2-stage compares to the SSA? Also trying to decide between an ALG ACT and the CA single stage...
I'm hoping with the rise of these "Quantified" and DMR style matches gaining popularity that someone will make one better that deploys/stows the same way.
I like the ALG ACT in single stages so no complaints there
I find the AST to be superior to the SSA with the reset and shoe.
If the publicly available info is accurate, this has likely been the case for years. The data I’ve found shows Geissele overtook them in government contracts since 2015. LaRue appears to be non-existent in that market currently. That may be why he is currently sharing links to sniper comps on his X page from a decade ago when he was still relevant.
Non LW LaRue barrels are a crap shoot. Some are ok, but most are mediocre at best. They certainly aren’t the premium barrels he makes them out to be. I’d be happy buying the large frame upper/rail combo, but there’s no way I’d pay for a new build from them. Paying a premium for “meh” results is foolish.
The above images are from Trigger Depots testing of various OEM triggers.
Trigger Depot makes lighter springs for AR15 triggers as well, resulting in lighter pull weights , but with similar pull profiles.
While the testing was only a sample of one EA, it did help me understand what I am feeling.
Trigger Depot makes lighter springs for AR15 triggers as well, resulting in lighter pull weights , but with similar pull profiles.
While the testing was only a sample of one EA, it did help me understand what I am feeling.
FWIW.. ( and I realize your dislike of PSA, so not stirring the pot )
PSA sells a Diamond like Coated version of the Schmid 2-Stage with a even lower claimed pull weight. I got one for $90.
The springs appear to be the same as all the other Schmids.
I have never seen any place else selling a Schmid DLC 2-Stage.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/sabre-claw-two-stage-trigger-black-dlc-coated.html
Sadly, I couldn't get the DLC version scanned.
As far as the Trigger scan of the "typical" Schmid 2-Stage, I sent Trigger Depot the PSA version, IE the least expensive Schmid 2-Stage NiB I could find. Note the grittiness of the pull.
And the second pull... is the Schmid/Gun Nuts - TF 2-Stage - Phosphate
The trigger scans testing by Trigger depot also did quite a few Single stage triggers as well.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Robotic-Testing-AR15-Triggers-Updated-5-1-2023/12-779525/
For the OP... sorry for side drifting the thread.
I do think LaRue can, at moments be their own worst enemy.
I have a couple of their 2015 5.56 barrels, quite a few MBT-2S triggers ( I hate that the edges of the trigger are not USGI shaped ), various uppers, and scope mounts.
All of those parts, I bought when LaRue prices were reasonable, and I consider them a bargain for the quality I got.
But the current prices , seem kind of high.
FWIW, I respect that Mark can operate his business as he see's fit, but the price increase's have sent me looking at other options.
The numerous LT204 LaRue C.A.N. QD SPR Mount 2285323, bought in early 2018...has since more than doubled in price. There have been "improvements" but... Geez.
I do think LaRue can, at moments be their own worst enemy.
I have a couple of their 2015 5.56 barrels, quite a few MBT-2S triggers ( I hate that the edges of the trigger are not USGI shaped ), various uppers, and scope mounts.
All of those parts, I bought when LaRue prices were reasonable, and I consider them a bargain for the quality I got.
But the current prices , seem kind of high.
FWIW, I respect that Mark can operate his business as he see's fit, but the price increase's have sent me looking at other options.
The numerous LT204 LaRue C.A.N. QD SPR Mount 2285323, bought in early 2018...has since more than doubled in price. There have been "improvements" but... Geez.
The Larue OBRs and predatARs were market leaders until about 2011. Frank is right, their early claim to fame to accuracy and reliability at a time when neither were common place in the sr25/ar10 world. If you weren't around back in 2008, you don't understand how few options there were.
DPMS, RRA and Armalite were the big players, the market was literally a fraction of what is today. Building an AR10 wasn't a great option back then either, you didn't have many options for receivers/rails/bcgs or barrels, and when you did find stuff, you weren't sure if it was compatible.
JP was $3k+ (and that was a lot) and SR25s were 5k and Larue rifles were $2600-3300.
But Larues were highly accurate due to their use of Lothar Walther barrels and they were considered to be 100% reliable due to their use by US special forces.
Laurie had all the modern features you could want (RRA, Arma and DPMS didn't) and all the accuracy and reliability and mil pedigree.
JP checked some boxes. KAC checked other boxes. RRA, DPMS and Arma didn't check any, but they were generally affordable (1k to 1.5k). Laurie checked all the boxes at an acceptable price.
Mark Larue got a big head and figured barrel making was easy, so he spent years chasing his tail trying to make accurate barrels. Customers got so mad waiting for rifles they paid for (not knowing the LW barrels wouldn't be used at time of purchase), Larue agreed to send out rifles with "field" barrels until he could make sufficiently precise barrels. This took years. He ruined a lot of goodwill with the community at a time when his competitors were quickly catching up.
Now... Larues are fine... but there isn't really a reason to seek them out, unless you always wanted one and just want to scratch the itch.
If you want accuracy, you can buy or build just about anything and put a custom barrel from any number of smiths.
I think KAC is over priced, if we are just going by performance. The seekins is a good value. You can have any smith spin you up a barrel for any AR10, so it's not like you need to buy a gap 10 just to get true match barrel.
I've had really good luck with LMT (even post COVID - as recent as last fall), so that's my choice. D Wilson can convert any barrel for MWS usage so that addresses many issues people have with LMT. But again, there are so many good choices today it's difficult to argue any one sr25/AR10 is objectively the best. But back in the day... Larue made a pretty strong argument that it was them.
DPMS, RRA and Armalite were the big players, the market was literally a fraction of what is today. Building an AR10 wasn't a great option back then either, you didn't have many options for receivers/rails/bcgs or barrels, and when you did find stuff, you weren't sure if it was compatible.
JP was $3k+ (and that was a lot) and SR25s were 5k and Larue rifles were $2600-3300.
But Larues were highly accurate due to their use of Lothar Walther barrels and they were considered to be 100% reliable due to their use by US special forces.
Laurie had all the modern features you could want (RRA, Arma and DPMS didn't) and all the accuracy and reliability and mil pedigree.
JP checked some boxes. KAC checked other boxes. RRA, DPMS and Arma didn't check any, but they were generally affordable (1k to 1.5k). Laurie checked all the boxes at an acceptable price.
Mark Larue got a big head and figured barrel making was easy, so he spent years chasing his tail trying to make accurate barrels. Customers got so mad waiting for rifles they paid for (not knowing the LW barrels wouldn't be used at time of purchase), Larue agreed to send out rifles with "field" barrels until he could make sufficiently precise barrels. This took years. He ruined a lot of goodwill with the community at a time when his competitors were quickly catching up.
Now... Larues are fine... but there isn't really a reason to seek them out, unless you always wanted one and just want to scratch the itch.
If you want accuracy, you can buy or build just about anything and put a custom barrel from any number of smiths.
I think KAC is over priced, if we are just going by performance. The seekins is a good value. You can have any smith spin you up a barrel for any AR10, so it's not like you need to buy a gap 10 just to get true match barrel.
I've had really good luck with LMT (even post COVID - as recent as last fall), so that's my choice. D Wilson can convert any barrel for MWS usage so that addresses many issues people have with LMT. But again, there are so many good choices today it's difficult to argue any one sr25/AR10 is objectively the best. But back in the day... Larue made a pretty strong argument that it was them.
Mark is a dick, case closed
thanks and I'd give it a try, honestly! I love the AST and graph looks real good but I'll keep my out/look for the PSA one. if you see a link let me know. willing to try and thanks
I'm not a smart man and I'm not mad at nor a fan of Larue per say but ....... that might be the worst sling in the history of carrying anything ever
File under "get what you paid for" and "cry once"
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