What's to prevent this from happening? What would actually change? As far as I can tell, the matches would happen as planned, but the results wouldn't be cataloged in someone's Excel spreadsheet... So?
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Why we can't have nice things,
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BINGO
For the rest of us who need an international federation and governing body to be able to get accepted in to national federations and in turn be able to apply for a sport shooting licens on our rifles, this is IT.
As of now we shoot with rifles that are on hunting licens in Sweden and with the regulations that follow.
And to be fair, Sweden has it easy compared to some countries who can be charged with paramilitary training if its not an approved sport with an international federation.
This is why we started the IPRF, not to create some international series to rules them all...
The World championship hosted by such federation adds credibility to it and is also kind of fun.
In the long run, all our seats will be up for grabs thru elections within each country.
Yep, Scott I get that. I was referring to the US. It seems that the international crew needs to have the proper affiliations to facilitate the sport. Not ideal, but if that's the reality, then press on... I'm not questioning your sincerity or that of those in the IPRF.
Not to mention in a very unsophisticated and immature fashion... Bad RE: both style and substance.
Sorry to all you old farts. But speaking for myself, I like the governing body organizing matches. I like the way its broken up into regional competition that rolls into national competition. I like the PRS, AND the NRL, centerfire and rimfire. God bless the owners of these leagues for the money, time, and effort they have invested, and its beyond me why some people want to point fingers and lay blame for trying to protect what you're trying to build.
Newsflash folks......99% of us do this for fun. I dont care what the owners of these organized bodies do with their time or money. Most people don't. My knickers are fully untwisted in regards to all this ridiculous drama. If they just keep bringing us fun matches and competition, I'll drop my coin and play.
Newsflash folks......99% of us do this for fun. I dont care what the owners of these organized bodies do with their time or money. Most people don't. My knickers are fully untwisted in regards to all this ridiculous drama. If they just keep bringing us fun matches and competition, I'll drop my coin and play.
That’s helpful. Ad hominem attacks against those who created the competitions yet never tried to profit from them. Don’t think for a second that these “old farts” did not bust their butts setting up comps and creating the very sport which a few are now bastardizing for cash. Y’all would have nothing to be bitching about without the trail-blazing thankless efforts from the “old farts”.
The issue is not about change/progress/rules. That’s inevitable and growth is a beautiful thing. The issue is the attitude and behavior surrounding such change.
The issue is not about change/progress/rules. That’s inevitable and growth is a beautiful thing. The issue is the attitude and behavior surrounding such change.
Not true in the UK as quoted on your Zoom Conference. Might be the case in Ireland but its absolutely not the case in the Uk and the GB Rep should have made that clear.
Except no league is actually “bringing” matches.
MD’s and ranges are doing the matches and reporting scores. They were doing it before leagues, and if the leagues stopped existing, matches would still go on.
The vast majority of MD’s get no real support from any league. Sure, there are a handful of matches that are bolstered by league affiliation, but that is the minority.
And the leagues only provide something to about 500 shooters interested in having their scores tracked. Which is again, a minority of shooters.
Any league needs to start stepping up and actually provide a service to MD’s or shooters. Otherwise growth will continue to be small (it really is small in relation to shooting sports in general, despite what the misleading % say).
I can't speak to the needs of the international community or the "Olympic" opportunity.
I've always thought raffling the prizes off the table was a good idea. It can be kind of a time suck, but what better way to: engage new shooters with basic gear, reward quality ROs for helping, reduce the motivation to cheat, and reduce the Monday For Sale threads of Sunday winnings.
Ern
I've always thought raffling the prizes off the table was a good idea. It can be kind of a time suck, but what better way to: engage new shooters with basic gear, reward quality ROs for helping, reduce the motivation to cheat, and reduce the Monday For Sale threads of Sunday winnings.
Ern
Frank,
I'm late to the party here and honestly I don't hit the forums like I used to but, I just have to toss this out. I signed on as a Match Director of NRL22 for our small local club in the beginning, why because the 22 series fit. Now we can talk about everything between then and last August later as it isn't really relevant to my point. I signed up to shoot the NRL22 Championship at Eagle Eye. I convinced my girlfriend to tag along as an RO. She had been so a few 1 day matches hanging out. Travis and all the crew did a great job of treating the ROs great. Bushnell and Bergara stepped way up to support the ROs. My point here is that I have NEVER seen ROs threat with such respect and support on top of being spoiled with binos and tripods and discount codes at any other 2 day match EVER. Travis and crew nailed it. Needless to say they pulled off a awesome match.
I've always thought that was a better idea too, not just for the "fairness" but its a whole other stream of income. I shot a lot of 3d archery and all of those shoots had raffles for donated swag and even nice equipment. The drawing was done Sunday and posted on a board where you matched up your ticket and claimed your prize. When we hosted a shoot, the raffle was a great money maker.
Couple years ago a princess top dog threw a fit about a guy getting 72nd place and receiving a brand new AI rifle donated by Mile High. Apparently the top dog was upset because he deserved that rifle cuz he shoots better. Fuggin entitled assholes. Prize table walk according to finish could be dropped imo.
Guarantee that dude still has that rifle and is in love with it. Had it gone the other way it would have been in the PX on here before the garbage at the match had even been picked up.
I was at that particular match and witnessed some of the most selfless and generous acts from people and companies. Regina M gave her table walk to a new lady shooter, and I think another company or two basically put a whole rifle together for her.
The AI rifle deal was something that made me loyal to Mile High as well, how awesome was that? How many others probably felt the same way? That was a hero move I'd say.
How about drop prize tables and also drop entry fees? Us "old farts" have watched the cost of match entry rise and rise over the past years also. We used to shoot two day matches for $125-150 with prize tables but then again gas was a nickel we walked uphill in the snow both ways to school also 
So if they drop prize tables and then drop the price to shoot.
And I wantto clarify that I am not against the international shooters as it may have seemed. I feel for you guys and I think you should have some sort of international league so you can keep your rifles but speaking for the US itself there really isn't a need here although it wouldn't hurt as someone mentioned making rifles used in sports.
So if they drop prize tables and then drop the price to shoot. And I wantto clarify that I am not against the international shooters as it may have seemed. I feel for you guys and I think you should have some sort of international league so you can keep your rifles but speaking for the US itself there really isn't a need here although it wouldn't hurt as someone mentioned making rifles used in sports.
We need a sweeping universal change,
shadow competitors, come in off the street, shoot the match for no score on the computer, keep your own.
stage design needs a realignment it’s barricade benchrest right now, every stage, its boring
number of stages can be reduced and a look at the times. In this case I just think options are needed
match support systems, this is probably the biggest
outline a match system from local to national, create an outline that gives it a path from local shooter to national
mentor program
qualifier program, stuff like the Kraft target that is universal, throw out the skill stages, remove adaption as a skill.
open the door for every match to provide scores regardless of series
things like this
shadow competitors, come in off the street, shoot the match for no score on the computer, keep your own.
stage design needs a realignment it’s barricade benchrest right now, every stage, its boring
number of stages can be reduced and a look at the times. In this case I just think options are needed
match support systems, this is probably the biggest
outline a match system from local to national, create an outline that gives it a path from local shooter to national
mentor program
qualifier program, stuff like the Kraft target that is universal, throw out the skill stages, remove adaption as a skill.
open the door for every match to provide scores regardless of series
things like this
I hope he got his score fixed. That sucks to be shorted that many points. But mistakes do happen.Not for the first time. Last PRS match I shot was Franks in Ft. Morgan in like 2015? Drama city, NONE of it Franks fault.
They bitched because Vibbert helped set up a stage with his steel he somehow had an advantage and took the win away.
Some jack wagon from the AMU claimed during the alibi period that he got shorted like 30 points, like a whole section of the match worth.
Then nobody would let Frank talk at the awards and they descended on the prize table like vultures.
PRS = Precision Rifle Stupidity.
Bingo.
Because he's not a douchenozzle.
How about drop prize tables and also drop entry fees? Us "old farts" have watched the cost of match entry rise and rise over the past years also. We used to shoot two day matches for $125-150 with prize tables but then again gas was a nickel we walked uphill in the snow both ways to school also
And I wantto clarify that I am not against the international shooters as it may have seemed. I feel for you guys and I think you should have some sort of international league so you can keep your rifles but speaking for the US itself there really isn't a need here although it wouldn't hurt as someone mentioned making rifles used in sports.
Can you drop prize tables and get enough shooters at $125/slot to cover a 2-day match? Steel, paint, props, food, shirts, trophies, land (many rent the land they are on)... say 80 people a match, is $10k enough? My guess is many MDs and ranges wouldn’t take the risk for a guaranteed loss. I’ve never hosted a match but have considered it. The costs were a lot higher than I expected.
Well many are actually at facilities so no renting. Matches years back ran for that price. Even at $150. And yes I think there would be enough competitors as the one day matches for $70-90 fill up with 100+ people and no prize table.
It’s been about big payouts and benefits for the top few (at the cost of the mediocre majority) since silky shooting blouses made their initial appearance.
I miss the friends I made in the Pre-RS days, but I sure don’t miss what this “thing of ours“ has become.
Sure, advances have been made technologically, and many individuals and companies have profited greatly, but the cost of entry (real or perceived) has gotten out of whack.
The stages MD’s came up with 20yrs ago to challenge shooters to “solve the problem” and the spirit of the competition were such that if you had a consistent MOA-capable rifle and knew how to run it you had a great time and hell-you could even win. It was pretty cool to see the boat in the Russian video-much nicer boat than the one we dragged into a wash in the desert
.
I only hope that new shooters now are experiencing the fun and personal reward that I did back in the day, it was kinda fun converting mils in the scope to MOA in the adjustments as part of the challenge....
I’ll be out chasing critters in the desert if y’all need to find me.
I miss the friends I made in the Pre-RS days, but I sure don’t miss what this “thing of ours“ has become.
Sure, advances have been made technologically, and many individuals and companies have profited greatly, but the cost of entry (real or perceived) has gotten out of whack.
The stages MD’s came up with 20yrs ago to challenge shooters to “solve the problem” and the spirit of the competition were such that if you had a consistent MOA-capable rifle and knew how to run it you had a great time and hell-you could even win. It was pretty cool to see the boat in the Russian video-much nicer boat than the one we dragged into a wash in the desert
.I only hope that new shooters now are experiencing the fun and personal reward that I did back in the day, it was kinda fun converting mils in the scope to MOA in the adjustments as part of the challenge....
I’ll be out chasing critters in the desert if y’all need to find me.
While I wouldn't be against dropping prize tables entirely........it is a great opportunity to get new products in shooters hands while also giving a little bonus for new shooters to come out and give it a try.
Raffle was probably the wrong word. I didn't mean selling raffle tickets. I just mean randomly picking shooter numbers for the table walk. You can still give the top shooters some sort of "in your face" bragging rights prize if you want. I stopped donating certs a while ago because I was tired of seeing them for sale in the PX. Otherwise I would just hand out $100 bills and call it a day.
I totally agree on the MH donated AI probably still in that shooter's safe with plenty of scars on it. I won an FN SPR during the FN sponsored ASC match years ago.........all based on a dice roll. I will never sell that rifle and it has been loaned to MANY new shooters who have since upgraded and been hooked on LR shooting every since. I can't think of a better outcome for myself and FN.
Ern
Raffle was probably the wrong word. I didn't mean selling raffle tickets. I just mean randomly picking shooter numbers for the table walk. You can still give the top shooters some sort of "in your face" bragging rights prize if you want. I stopped donating certs a while ago because I was tired of seeing them for sale in the PX. Otherwise I would just hand out $100 bills and call it a day.
I totally agree on the MH donated AI probably still in that shooter's safe with plenty of scars on it. I won an FN SPR during the FN sponsored ASC match years ago.........all based on a dice roll. I will never sell that rifle and it has been loaned to MANY new shooters who have since upgraded and been hooked on LR shooting every since. I can't think of a better outcome for myself and FN.
Ern
The prize tables don/t have to go, just be spelled out better.
I think the classification system the regional series up here are doing is the fix, you can debate the values but creating the class system like:
A
B
C
Classes can solve the prize table issue immediately, you put the prizes on the classification table so you only pick from your table, you can put good prizes on every table, not front load it.
The classifications need to go off finish score that puts you in your proper bucket and just use a percentage based model for it. Percent of possible or winner
The other posts talk about it, and it will solve many of the process issues and the computer should do most of the work
It will never happen, but I still feel pretty strong about the Open and Limited Only then Classifications of each in the A, B, C zone, we are really too small to play with a bunch of different things, it would have longer legs keeping it simple. But this is probably too radical a change
I think the classification system the regional series up here are doing is the fix, you can debate the values but creating the class system like:
A
B
C
Classes can solve the prize table issue immediately, you put the prizes on the classification table so you only pick from your table, you can put good prizes on every table, not front load it.
The classifications need to go off finish score that puts you in your proper bucket and just use a percentage based model for it. Percent of possible or winner
The other posts talk about it, and it will solve many of the process issues and the computer should do most of the work
It will never happen, but I still feel pretty strong about the Open and Limited Only then Classifications of each in the A, B, C zone, we are really too small to play with a bunch of different things, it would have longer legs keeping it simple. But this is probably too radical a change
By the way, to folks holding the IPSC model as a viable way to grow competitions and talking about prize tables/payouts:
I’m no IPSC shooter, but it’s my understanding that when you win one of their events you get a plaque/trophy, and the sponsor donated prizes are raffled to all competitors. This model may separate much of the greed angle that has plagued the PRS model from its inception.
I’m no IPSC shooter, but it’s my understanding that when you win one of their events you get a plaque/trophy, and the sponsor donated prizes are raffled to all competitors. This model may separate much of the greed angle that has plagued the PRS model from its inception.
To your point on the prize table / raffle solution. I can add my experience from another organization that the dudes typically taking the first swings at the prize tables are more often than not the ones that need the stuff the least. It's disappointing to see the jersey guys stacking another donated AR or hand gun into the safe when there are other shooters who would probably appreciate the hell out of it.
I liked the raffle idea, but wanted to add that the number of "tickets" you get in the drum could be increased based on your finish.
First place gets 5, top 10% get 4, top 25% get 3 and everyone else gets 2 or something of the sort. Gives some positive incentive to do well, but gives everyone a chance at that top slot on the prize table. Shit, if you want to bring in some extra money, sell additional tickets and treat it as a donation. Nearly every trap and archery league I know has some sort of season ending raffle for their participants. I don't even shoot my local trap league but Im always happy to donate when they have an open raffle because I know the money is going to the club and I've got a small shot at something cool. Give the winners plaques and trophies for the bragging rights, those are cheap.
It just sounds like you want to know up front what will happen so it’s not a surprise
If every match was the same, I think the consistency helps, because that is how it reads
If every match was the same, I think the consistency helps, because that is how it reads
I know it can be done for sure. I'd personally love to see fees come down, it's going to be tough though when the better facilities are selling out at $300.
That email was about the same as any phone conversation I have had with Shannon. With him railing against other organizations because I was running a match in both leagues and not 100% just PRS. I’ve actually avoided his calls a few times because I didn’t want to listen to the same stuff for an hour again. And if you look Montana is not on the schedule in either series.
It had been bothering me for a while and so I called up several folks and we started our own series, the Devil’s Brigade Rifle Series. Just a pile of one day matches across Montana and one in ND, culminating in a 2 day event open to anyone. No prize table until the finale and divisions for skill levels.
Peter and I had roughly the same idea at the same time and we’ve spoken at length about it. He started the WPR and us the DBRS. Points will be shared between the series’s.
One of the main goals is to keep costs down. Travel cost, entry fees, and rounds expended. We are trying to get a match that is within 3 hours of anywhere in Montana. Running matches that have the dead target rule and yes, we have a fee to be a series member, but that will buy some swag, pay my wife (who I roped into being the administrator for this and she’s a little peeved at me about it) and invested in the finale to keep that entry fee down.
At the end of this first season I would like to turn the series over to a committee voted on by the shooters and that runs like the Montana Rifle and Pistol Association.
There are other ways to do things. I see both the Devil’s Brigade and the Western Rifle becoming a pile of fun. Which is the dang point of this hobby.
Edit: I forgot to mention the finale prize table will be a raffle, just like the Guardian. The proceeds from the raffle will be donated to the Green Beret Foundation. We named it after their granddaddy after all.
It had been bothering me for a while and so I called up several folks and we started our own series, the Devil’s Brigade Rifle Series. Just a pile of one day matches across Montana and one in ND, culminating in a 2 day event open to anyone. No prize table until the finale and divisions for skill levels.
Peter and I had roughly the same idea at the same time and we’ve spoken at length about it. He started the WPR and us the DBRS. Points will be shared between the series’s.
One of the main goals is to keep costs down. Travel cost, entry fees, and rounds expended. We are trying to get a match that is within 3 hours of anywhere in Montana. Running matches that have the dead target rule and yes, we have a fee to be a series member, but that will buy some swag, pay my wife (who I roped into being the administrator for this and she’s a little peeved at me about it) and invested in the finale to keep that entry fee down.
At the end of this first season I would like to turn the series over to a committee voted on by the shooters and that runs like the Montana Rifle and Pistol Association.
There are other ways to do things. I see both the Devil’s Brigade and the Western Rifle becoming a pile of fun. Which is the dang point of this hobby.
Edit: I forgot to mention the finale prize table will be a raffle, just like the Guardian. The proceeds from the raffle will be donated to the Green Beret Foundation. We named it after their granddaddy after all.
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Adding matches for the sake of adding matches has not done anyone any favors but the Series
They market off it, but it doesn’t make things better just because you have more,
There needs to be a focus on the locations to improve the level of competition as well to support the community
The competitor experience has to matter,
They market off it, but it doesn’t make things better just because you have more,
There needs to be a focus on the locations to improve the level of competition as well to support the community
The competitor experience has to matter,
See that, great stuff with the DBRS,
Notice the discussion to help the shooters, to cut costs and reinvest back into the program
It’s subtle if you are not really paying attention but look at the difference in attitude from the guys who were running matches for the big expensive series and where they want the focus to go after being burned or ignored is probably a better word
If you want to be something to a group of people, be advocate for the group and work to improve things vs being in it for yourself and instead of looking at every decision as a way to takeaway from the group. The mindset is the biggest change needed and you are seeing this play out.
I applaud the local groups building their own better, takes a lot of nerve in this small community to break away from the pack
Notice the discussion to help the shooters, to cut costs and reinvest back into the program
It’s subtle if you are not really paying attention but look at the difference in attitude from the guys who were running matches for the big expensive series and where they want the focus to go after being burned or ignored is probably a better word
If you want to be something to a group of people, be advocate for the group and work to improve things vs being in it for yourself and instead of looking at every decision as a way to takeaway from the group. The mindset is the biggest change needed and you are seeing this play out.
I applaud the local groups building their own better, takes a lot of nerve in this small community to break away from the pack
I'm not attacking anyone. I'm stating I have fun with the way it is now and have no desire to see it change back to what it used to be.
Thanks to the "old farts" for getting the ball rolling. But turning it back into a series of unconnected club matches with nothing more to aspire to doesn't appeal to me. Thats what 3 Gun is in spite of multiple efforts into making it something more. You show up, shoot a match, go home. Its just fun with your buddies and never amounts to more than that. Each effort and organization that stepped up to try to bring it under one roof was equally as bad as the one before it..
With Precision Rifle you can and have fun with your buddies at the club level, or you can try to participate in a national championship.
I certainly won't say these organizations are perfect, but for the people who just want to shoot and have fun, they are a pretty good deal. I certainly don't see the current ownership of the NRL or the PRS giving up what they have to morph into some new and improved version of themselves where everything is champagne and butterflies. Anything that replaces what we currently have has a very high potential to be equally flawed in some manner or another. What we wish for and what we get is nevrr the same.
Nobody
Most of the rest of the world doesn't enjoy our comparatively unlimited right to own and use firearms. They almost all have to ask permission and justify their request to their local or national government before being granted the limited privilege.
In almost all of those countries, national legislation provides that in order to justify the ownership of firearms for sporting use, the applicant must belong to a government-recognized sport shooting federation. Not all sport shooting federations are represented in the Olympics.
In most cases government will only recognize a national shooting sport federation if it's associated with an international federation regulating the same shooting sport.
That is why IPSC has such an international reach even though practical pistol shooting isn't and will never be an Olympic sport. That's also why IDPA (the pistol sport analog to PRS, a private for profit business) barely has any traction outside the US.
So while we may not give a fuck about an international precision rifle federation and may not need it, a lot of people around the world do.
And having USPSA being the United States affiliate of IPSC actually gives us who participate in that sport benefits that would not exist if we were some stand alone organization limited to the US. While those benefits may be minor for us, they literally mean the difference between owning a pistol at all or not for lots of other shooters around the world.
As for standardization, there's a shit load about any shooting sport that can be and should be standardized without forcing competitors into standardized courses of fire.
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That is my understanding as well, but to see significant prize tables you pretty much have to go to one of the national championships.
I'm pretty sure there are no prize tables at USPSA state and area championships. I will let you know later on in the year because after a few years I've decided to go to my state and area championships.
And I didn't even need an invite...…..
I don't really see the ROI on giving a guy who is sponsored and/or paid for every bit of gear a high dollar item that isn't going to get you anything as a manufacturer. Raffle idea seems way more helpful to the sport.
My tress pass fee for the Nightforce ELR match in Casper is $40 each so about $9000, Hoodies are $20 x 220 , Food is $15 x 220, Trophies are $275 x 9 each (they are a piece of Art though), Mugs are $5 x 250, I usually have to replace a target here and there a 50% Elk is $600, New batteries for the lights 9V and 12V Lead Acid run about $600 every year, I pay for marketing about 10% of Gross, all of the other expenses add up. So to run a match that doesn't have an existing facility is expensive.
The only problem with the raffle idea is one that Guardian matches recently came up against. In many states a raffle is considered a form of gambling so the match would have to consult with lawyers and state agencies to get the proper gaming permits. That’s not free.
I am of two minds on the prize tables and people selling their prizes. On the one hand, the winners deserve the better prize. Once it’s in their hands it’s theirs to do with as they wish. If they choose to sell it then a newer shooter can pick it up of the PX for a better price than retail. The other side of my mind says sponsors may not donate prizes if they are just getting sold.
I’d like to see MDs go outside of the industry for prizes. A gift certificate for a set of tires, gas cards, or hotel vouchers would all be welcome prizes. Or even entry fee certificates to future matches.
I like the stuff mentioned earlier about tiers. Tiers and shadow competitors will be a great way to get new people into the sport. Not sure if it’s been said to have reduced rates for shadow competitors. The trick is to get people in the door. I know it took me a while to sign up for my first match because it was intimidating. Once I got there I realized how my fears were misguided.
Allowing and encouraging spectating would be another good one. Let people know they can come watch a match and follow a squad to see what it’s about. Then there’s not so much unknown. More shooters can be brought in but it may take small steps.
I am of two minds on the prize tables and people selling their prizes. On the one hand, the winners deserve the better prize. Once it’s in their hands it’s theirs to do with as they wish. If they choose to sell it then a newer shooter can pick it up of the PX for a better price than retail. The other side of my mind says sponsors may not donate prizes if they are just getting sold.
I’d like to see MDs go outside of the industry for prizes. A gift certificate for a set of tires, gas cards, or hotel vouchers would all be welcome prizes. Or even entry fee certificates to future matches.
I like the stuff mentioned earlier about tiers. Tiers and shadow competitors will be a great way to get new people into the sport. Not sure if it’s been said to have reduced rates for shadow competitors. The trick is to get people in the door. I know it took me a while to sign up for my first match because it was intimidating. Once I got there I realized how my fears were misguided.
Allowing and encouraging spectating would be another good one. Let people know they can come watch a match and follow a squad to see what it’s about. Then there’s not so much unknown. More shooters can be brought in but it may take small steps.
Yeah, if you want to "grow the sport" I bet $250 gift cards to Hilton or Marriott, or $100 to Exxon would do a lot more than giving last years champ a scope he contractually isn't allowed to use.
Xterra (the off-road triathlons) used to give free entries to future events in the region as a prize in the amateur classes, it was really effective to get people to stay invested in the sport.
Xterra (the off-road triathlons) used to give free entries to future events in the region as a prize in the amateur classes, it was really effective to get people to stay invested in the sport.
Tyler Hughes has started up the Best of the West Series in the NV and CA that is really similar to this. Pretty awesome to have a regular series of local 1-day matches that has a points build-up, with no cost for tracking. He's even come up with a "Pro" vs "Amateur" breakdown that allows for some challenges without changing target sizes. Really awesome concept that helps provide a regular series of matches without breaking the bank for travel.
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I think part of the point is that the PRS isn’t really bringing you the matches, the match directors are. PRS doesn’t even keep score, they just store the scores in a central location. If you’re in the 99% who do this for fun, it seems to me that the PRS provides even less value to you. If competition isn’t your motivation, then why do you care it the PRS folks know how well you shot? Not intending to flame you, I am genuinely curious.
Along with what should grow it would also be helpful to understand why it should grow. Growth isn’t always beneficial. In this case, what purpose does the growth serve? Is it something beyond simply generating more match fees and custom action orders?
Its way cheaper than buying 300,000 acres of WY though
Guys this whole thing is about giving the international guys opportunities. Also I agree that more matches in the US does not equal growth.
Oh I do like the competitive aspect. In it for the fun doesn't mean I dont care about the placement or I'm not competitive. I'm not very good, but I love the competitive aspect of it. I make it to about 4 or 5 national matches a year, and went to the 2018 NRL Championship and the 2019 PRS Finale. Had a ball at both of them. Emphasis on,.... I had a ball... along with nearly everyone else there.
These events are fun. And yes. The Match Directors put them on. Im an MD myself. And I see all these grandiose ideas being tossed around here about "giving back to the sport" and "supporting the shooter", but from where I'm sitting and what I've seen, I think both our leagues do these things. Mostly I see a lot of rancor directed at Shannon and bunches of statements as to what a terrible guy he is. But all this stuff about how terrible the PRS is, I simply don't agree with. All these things the league could and should be doing, for the most part, they already do. They provide set rules and guidelines, and a ton of other support role activities too numerous to list. And quite frankly, for the last 3 years, anytime ive had an issue, Shannon or Julie has been a phone call or text away, and they got right on it and helped.
I was the MD for the Rocky Mountain Region Club Series Championship last August. Even though we were the first championship event of the season, they were waiting for me to send the Saturday afternoon match scores so they could tally up the Regional standings for me. They were on the phone with me helping me get it right.. they were literally hanging out that afternoon waiting for my call just so they could help.. They were wonderful. To me, a $40 membership for score tracking and a slough of Regional Championship trophies and some pretty useful vendor discounts is money well spent. Not to mention a t-shirt
I just don't see it fellas. I do agree with some of the things said. But not every organization is going to be everything to everyone. A lot of the things being said here as to what they should or could be, just isn't accurate. I think both leagues have done a great job with what they have.
Where did I say it wasn't? Also you can do away with hoodies, mugs and food. Most shooting have more of that stuff than they know what to do with and I know for myself I would rather pay less and not get it. I can bring a bunch of crackers and snack bars and make a day of shooting. Been doing it for years. So you just save a bunch there.
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