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William Buck Memorial Postal Matches
- Thread starter Rimfireshooter99
- Start date
Larry
Here are two targets for this month.
Thanks
Jerry
Here are two targets for this month.
Thanks
Jerry
It appears that after market stocks are now allowed in factory class but that multiple attempts with the same rifle/class are no longer permitted? Were there other changes (in addition to the new targets and new 10-shot match) that I missed?
Randy
Randy, yes to the stock replacement for factory, but you can still submit multiple attempts with the same rifle/class. The rules have been updated to reflect that. Thanks for looking these over.
Does this mean any aftermarket stock or chassis can be used with the factory barreled action?
Larry,
No problem, I used to review/write engineering specification for a living but alas, my work experience has skewed my perspective away from normal.
Randy
Oh joy! I’ve got an unused chassis and CZ 452 chomping at the bit.
Perhaps my T1X would be more competitive in a Boyds At One stock.
Larry,
Could you give clarification on how the new target will be scored. please see example and let me know if this is correct.
Thanks,
Lee
Attachments
Thanks Lee. Following the instructions on the target, best edge scoring; touch or inside the center ring is 10 pts. Touch the dot, is an "X", touch or inside the outer ring is 5 pts. If you don't touch the outer ring, then no pts. are awarded.
Same as the previous version except there are now only two rings instead of three. No change on the scoring requirements, other than the points awarded (10-5-0).
Thanks Larry, Ouch miss the ten ring and you drop 5 points. versus just one with the current target. will be interesting to see for 2024.
Lee
Spent today trying to shoot the remainder of my soon to be obsolete targets. Learned that my Tikka T1X may not need a laminated stock after all and that my lightweight 2500X is much easier to shoot with a bungee cord although I need to do more tuning or perhaps experiment with Lapua ammo or a different lot of Eley Match to get the most out of this rifle. Alas, I failed once again my quest to shoot a 200 with my 10/22. Hard to be unhappy when my Tikka T1X scored it's highest ever target.
Factory Target Match
200/14x - Martini - Tikka T1X/Fiocchi MAXAC on 12/11/23
Match-Grade Match
195/6X - Martini - Custom Ruger 10/22 with Kidd Barrel/Eley Semi-Auto Benchrest Precision on 12/11/23
Unlimited Match
200/4X - Martini- 2500X Muller 5R/Eley Match 1-61 on 12/11/23
Factory Target Match
200/14x - Martini - Tikka T1X/Fiocchi MAXAC on 12/11/23
Match-Grade Match
195/6X - Martini - Custom Ruger 10/22 with Kidd Barrel/Eley Semi-Auto Benchrest Precision on 12/11/23
Unlimited Match
200/4X - Martini- 2500X Muller 5R/Eley Match 1-61 on 12/11/23
Randy, that Tikka is on-fire! Well done! I have all your scores posted.Spent today trying to shoot the remainder of my soon to be obsolete targets. Learned that my Tikka T1X may not need a laminated stock after all and that my lightweight 2500X is much easier to shoot with a bungee cord although I need to do more tuning or perhaps experiment with Lapua ammo or a different lot of Eley Match to get the most out of this rifle. Alas, I failed once again my quest to shoot a 200 with my 10/22. Hard to be unhappy when my Tikka T1X scored it's highest ever target.
Factory Target Match
200/14x - Martini - Tikka T1X/Fiocchi MAXAC on 12/11/23
Match-Grade Match
195/6X - Martini - Custom Ruger 10/22 with Kidd Barrel/Eley Semi-Auto Benchrest Precision on 12/11/23
Unlimited Match
200/4X - Martini- 2500X Muller 5R/Eley Match 1-61 on 12/11/23
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In 2023 so far there were three 200's posted in Factory Rifle, two by CZ457's and one Tikka 1X.
In the last half of 2022 there were two 200's posted, one Ishmash (an incredible 200/18X) and a CZ457.
My records indicate that I shot a 200 in 2021 with my CZ457 but I don't know if there were others. So I've shot one 200 each year of the past three in factory rifle with two different 22's.
Regardless, the factory rifle challenge is to be the first to shoot a 200 on the new target in 2024.
Randy
In the last half of 2022 there were two 200's posted, one Ishmash (an incredible 200/18X) and a CZ457.
My records indicate that I shot a 200 in 2021 with my CZ457 but I don't know if there were others. So I've shot one 200 each year of the past three in factory rifle with two different 22's.
Regardless, the factory rifle challenge is to be the first to shoot a 200 on the new target in 2024.
Randy
Well, the new target only eliminated the large bulls and the outer ring, but your shot placement would have been a 200 on the new target too!
Everyone likes a challenge and after the new year, let's see who"s first with 200 on Factory Rifle, and also the new Unlimited target!
Come get some gentlemen!
Larry
My fearless prediction is that I will shoot my little Tikka more regularly in Factory Target in 2024, health and weather permitting. It's earned a place in my rotation.
One thing I noticed during shooting it yesterday is that the more distinct crosshairs/dot on the T36 mounted on the Tikka is much easier to see against the black "X" bull compared to the lighter crosshair/dot on the Mueller 40X's that I have mounted on my CZ457, Win. 69A, and BSA Martini. Of course it was a bright sunny day in N. Texas yesterday compared to the cloudy, overcast days recently. I'm hopefully that the smaller "X" dot will make a finer hold easier on the new target with my Mueller scopes.
On another subject I would encourage everyone to drag out their peep sight rifles and shoot the iron sight match. It's fun even for a 70 year old guy with bad eyesight.
Randy
One thing I noticed during shooting it yesterday is that the more distinct crosshairs/dot on the T36 mounted on the Tikka is much easier to see against the black "X" bull compared to the lighter crosshair/dot on the Mueller 40X's that I have mounted on my CZ457, Win. 69A, and BSA Martini. Of course it was a bright sunny day in N. Texas yesterday compared to the cloudy, overcast days recently. I'm hopefully that the smaller "X" dot will make a finer hold easier on the new target with my Mueller scopes.
On another subject I would encourage everyone to drag out their peep sight rifles and shoot the iron sight match. It's fun even for a 70 year old guy with bad eyesight.
Randy
Keith, I'm not really sure. Mr. Buck held a 50 yard postal match that I joined late one season, and shot with him a few months. Then, we heard he had passed away, so another shooter and I took over to maintain his legacy. We have added some matches since his time, and have seen quite a few shooters come and go. We'll continue with the William Buck Memorial Postal Matches until I can't do it anymore.
Larry
Larry,
Thanks for getting back with me. Regardless of which William Buck it is, I applaud you for taking the reins and continuing onward.
Wishing You & Yours a Merry Christmas.
Keith
This looks like a lot of fun, and I hope to participate probably starting in January.
I do have a question. I have a Winchester model 75 made in 1941, and it has a scope mounted on it instead of iron sights. Otherwise it is as it left the factory. I have looked at the ARA website, and see that the 75 is not an approved model. What is it that excludes it?
Looking at the rules for this competition, I can use it in the anything goes matches.
Would it be allowed in the match grade or unlimited classes?
Thank you for any advice. I included a pic of the rifle.
I do have a question. I have a Winchester model 75 made in 1941, and it has a scope mounted on it instead of iron sights. Otherwise it is as it left the factory. I have looked at the ARA website, and see that the 75 is not an approved model. What is it that excludes it?
Looking at the rules for this competition, I can use it in the anything goes matches.
Would it be allowed in the match grade or unlimited classes?
Thank you for any advice. I included a pic of the rifle.
Josh, that sure is a beautiful rifle! I believe ARA rules did not include any of the older "Match-Grade" rifles as they did not think it would be fair to include those in today's factory rifle class. You can certainly shoot it in the Match Grade and Unlimited matches we have here, as well as the new 10-shot match which starts in January, and the Mini-Palma, if you like to shoot at 100 yards.
Join in on the fun, when you can!
Happy Holidays!
Larry
Thank you, sir!
Yes, the rifle is in excellent condition. A coworker was selling it a few years ago, and I couldn't pass it up. It's actually the first 22lr I've ever owned. I had always just shot my stepdads Marlin model 60, and that had been years ago.
Now to find a good shooting ammo for it. I've just played around with some cheap stuff, but I want to try some better ammo to see what it's capable of.
I look forward to joining in on the fun soon!
Happy Holidays to you as well!
Yes, the rifle is in excellent condition. A coworker was selling it a few years ago, and I couldn't pass it up. It's actually the first 22lr I've ever owned. I had always just shot my stepdads Marlin model 60, and that had been years ago.
Now to find a good shooting ammo for it. I've just played around with some cheap stuff, but I want to try some better ammo to see what it's capable of.
I look forward to joining in on the fun soon!
Happy Holidays to you as well!
What a great looking classical rifle. I'm always wanted a M75 or M52 to go with the 69A's I've owned over the years. Look forward to seeing good scores with it. Randy
Great shooting Larry.
There goes my "this target is too hard" alibi for not shooting a 200. Very impressive.
Did you end up with a Sightron 10-50 on this rifle?
Randy
Actually, I went with a Sightron 45x ED glass, target dot, fixed power. A fine scope to look through, in my opinion. I have a NF 15-55 on my match rifle, and have been thinking about selling it, and getting another Sightron 45x.
Larry
Sightron 45X ED must be awful nice to beat out the NF15-55. I have the NF 15-55 on my 2500X (Shilen). My 40X has a Weaver XR46 which I bought on closeout after they were discontinued. Also own a NF12-42 as well as a Leupold 45X. I was considering buying another competition scope to use up my Cabela's points but it looks as it they stopped carrying Sightron nor do carry any of the models usually used for benchrest. My factory target rifles have either a Mueller 40X or a T36
Of the scopes I've used I very much prefer the NF15-55 but it's cost prohibitive to purchase another one right at the moment.
Randy
Are these printing correctly? I can't seem to adjust them at all printing from my phone.
I just want to make sure they are the correct size before I go shoot.
I just want to make sure they are the correct size before I go shoot.
Jump on in........look forward to having you shoot with us!!!
Hey Mr. Larry
Been kind of busy but had to get one more entry in before the end of the year. I had a little distraction on this target. He wondered around in the middle of the target for about 5 minutes while I shot the first two rows finally moving to the side where I quickly dispatched him.
Very good shooting on the targets you posted above!!!
Been kind of busy but had to get one more entry in before the end of the year. I had a little distraction on this target. He wondered around in the middle of the target for about 5 minutes while I shot the first two rows finally moving to the side where I quickly dispatched him.
Very good shooting on the targets you posted above!!!
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Hahaha! I love it when flies take the hit! Good shooting on the target and the fly! I have your score posted.
Larry
Here is my submission for December. I'm not sure if I'll have time to shoot another target, but I'll submit later.
The temperature was about 52 degrees and calm winds. I bought a borescope and learned what a carbon ring looks like, cleaned mine up and it shot better.
Thanks for doing this Larry.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and yours.
The temperature was about 52 degrees and calm winds. I bought a borescope and learned what a carbon ring looks like, cleaned mine up and it shot better.
Thanks for doing this Larry.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and yours.
Attachments
JBell 6x5 Match
50 yards - Group Ave.
0.428 - Martini - CZ457/SK+ on 12/20/23
For the past three years or so I have shot the same lot of SK Standard Plus (152 50/1 287/2) in my CZ457 MTR shooting a couple or three 200's during that time frame although I have recently noticed accuracy wasn't as good as it was a year ago. I also shot this lot for a number of months in my 40X where it shot fairly well. Alas, all good things must come to an end as I'm down to just a few boxes. So I conducted what we would have called a screening test in my engineering test lab days 35 years ago. Unfortunately, rain is coming to North Texas and the winds arrived ahead of the front although the temperature was pleasant in the low 50's.
Regardless, I fouled the barrel with 10 shots of SK+ and then proceeded to use a different lot of SK+ to shoot each bull on the JBell 6x5 Challenge target. I then shot a second Jbell target with the same lots on the same bulls and averaged the group size with results as follows:
As often happens with a test of few data points, an unexpected result occurs i.e. my preferred lot came in second worse of the six lots tested. Obviously, additional testing is needed, preferably on a calm day, but I'll probably shoot one of the four best lots in January on the new factory rifle target if I get a good day (rare in January) to shoot. I think I have two more lots to test as well.
I'm open to any advice for selecting the best lot as it's rare for me to do lot testing ahead of shooting targets.
50 yards - Group Ave.
0.428 - Martini - CZ457/SK+ on 12/20/23
For the past three years or so I have shot the same lot of SK Standard Plus (152 50/1 287/2) in my CZ457 MTR shooting a couple or three 200's during that time frame although I have recently noticed accuracy wasn't as good as it was a year ago. I also shot this lot for a number of months in my 40X where it shot fairly well. Alas, all good things must come to an end as I'm down to just a few boxes. So I conducted what we would have called a screening test in my engineering test lab days 35 years ago. Unfortunately, rain is coming to North Texas and the winds arrived ahead of the front although the temperature was pleasant in the low 50's.
Regardless, I fouled the barrel with 10 shots of SK+ and then proceeded to use a different lot of SK+ to shoot each bull on the JBell 6x5 Challenge target. I then shot a second Jbell target with the same lots on the same bulls and averaged the group size with results as follows:
| Lot # | Lot Avg. |
| 287 | 0.552 |
| 11454 | 0.417 |
| 17455 | 0.439 |
| O2456 | 0.357 |
| O7455 | 0.571 |
| O3753 | 0.444 |
As often happens with a test of few data points, an unexpected result occurs i.e. my preferred lot came in second worse of the six lots tested. Obviously, additional testing is needed, preferably on a calm day, but I'll probably shoot one of the four best lots in January on the new factory rifle target if I get a good day (rare in January) to shoot. I think I have two more lots to test as well.
I'm open to any advice for selecting the best lot as it's rare for me to do lot testing ahead of shooting targets.
Randy, some observations based on your targets. I see the winds were pushing from left to right, as many of the bulls have rounds that hit to the right of the dot. With that being said:JBell 6x5 Match
50 yards - Group Ave.
0.428 - Martini - CZ457/SK+ on 12/20/23
For the past three years or so I have shot the same lot of SK Standard Plus (152 50/1 287/2) in my CZ457 MTR shooting a couple or three 200's during that time frame although I have recently noticed accuracy wasn't as good as it was a year ago. I also shot this lot for a number of months in my 40X where it shot fairly well. Alas, all good things must come to an end as I'm down to just a few boxes. So I conducted what we would have called a screening test in my engineering test lab days 35 years ago. Unfortunately, rain is coming to North Texas and the winds arrived ahead of the front although the temperature was pleasant in the low 50's.
Regardless, I fouled the barrel with 10 shots of SK+ and then proceeded to use a different lot of SK+ to shoot each bull on the JBell 6x5 Challenge target. I then shot a second Jbell target with the same lots on the same bulls and averaged the group size with results as follows:
Lot # Lot Avg. 287 11454 17455 O2456 O7455 O3753
As often happens with a test of few data points, an unexpected result occurs i.e. my preferred lot came in second worse of the six lots tested. Obviously, additional testing is needed, preferably on a calm day, but I'll probably shoot one of the four best lots in January on the new factory rifle target if I get a good day (rare in January) to shoot. I think I have two more lots to test as well.
I'm open to any advice for selecting the best lot as it's rare for me to do lot testing ahead of shooting targets.
- lot 02456 grouped nicely in the center ring. I recommend you shoot this one again on a calmer day.
- lot 17455 grouped nicely on the first target, and the second was impacted by winds from left to right, making it string more horizontally. I recommend you shoot this one again on a calmer day.
- lot 03753 has a similar story as 17455 above.
- lot 11454 grouped well on the top target, then got a little vertical on the second target, but it shows potential. I recommend you shoot this one again on a calmer day.
- lot 07455 seems to be consistently a bit wider than the other lots noted above.
- lots 152 seems to be consistently more variable on both targets.
Bottom line, the top 4 lots seem to show potential for good groups. My 2 cents for what it's worth...
Larry
It's normal to get strange winds on my range due to the buildings and trees. Yesterday, the winds were predominately from the south south east but switching to the south south west. I shot from the south to the north so the wind were mostly pushing from left to right except when they were pushing from right to left. While shooting the 5th bull on the first target, a 20 MPH gust blew through causing my double vane wind flag to tip and I carried it back into the shop fearing it would fall and break (again). I was reminded of the time that Jerry Stiller told me it was a waste of time to test ammo or tuning when the wind was blowing but I don't have access to an indoor range nor to we get a lot of good days to shoot this time of year. So I'm basically trying to shoot in between the heavy gusts of wind which I consider to be as near to neutral condition as I was going to see that day.
Rarely do I shoot 22 groups but I have a lot of experience judging the accuracy of my PD rifles with five shot groups at 200 yards. I like groups that are mostly round shaped. 02456 had the smallest diameter and both groups were fairly round.
My thought was to conduct additional testing on a calm day. I thought I would test the best four lots along with another lot that didn't make it into this round of testing on a better day. I'm on the fence about 07455. The first shot on this bull on target two went low nearly an inch beneath the group without any explanation which makes me worry about the consistency of this lot of ammo.
The purpose of screening testing is to eliminate lots from further testing with this rifle. I'll likely stop shooting my control lot for score in the new year but I wanted to get a baseline established before we changed factory rifle targets. It's supposed to rainy here (it's sprinkling now) through Sunday, windy on Monday and then potentially calmer Tuesday and Wednesday mornings. We'll see.
Randy
Rarely do I shoot 22 groups but I have a lot of experience judging the accuracy of my PD rifles with five shot groups at 200 yards. I like groups that are mostly round shaped. 02456 had the smallest diameter and both groups were fairly round.
My thought was to conduct additional testing on a calm day. I thought I would test the best four lots along with another lot that didn't make it into this round of testing on a better day. I'm on the fence about 07455. The first shot on this bull on target two went low nearly an inch beneath the group without any explanation which makes me worry about the consistency of this lot of ammo.
The purpose of screening testing is to eliminate lots from further testing with this rifle. I'll likely stop shooting my control lot for score in the new year but I wanted to get a baseline established before we changed factory rifle targets. It's supposed to rainy here (it's sprinkling now) through Sunday, windy on Monday and then potentially calmer Tuesday and Wednesday mornings. We'll see.
Randy
Good luck. Let's hope for a calm day for you, so you can wrap up your testing. Merry Christmas!
