Would you get into 6.5 Grendel in 2024?

#451
hlee said:
Elanders will gum with dust in the follower, causing it to get stuck in the mag, if you get them away from a clean room environment. I’ve got a pile of them. They’re pretty, but they almost universally suck. I have a couple of 10 rounders that are fine for range day. But, I’ve had too many Elander malfs to trust them if I need them to work.
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Interesting. 90% of the time I use E Landers in this config and have zero problems, 100% suppressed and usually dirty. I do clean them from time to time but more from my experience with other calibers.

I have C Products, Dura, E Lander and maybe another brand somewhere and I've not really had a situation where a gun displayed a preference - they worked or they didn't, regardless of the mag.

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#452
I have 1 10rd Elander that works. Every ASC and Duramag I’ve bought has worked in all of my Grendels and 6ARC before it was converted back to Grendel.
 
#453
KitShickers said:
I dont know why, but my 18" lilja hates Elanders. I currently have several for sell here. Bullets nose dive enough to break the ballistic tips off of hornady black. Fortunately Duramag is gtg for me.
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Your internal dimensions might be too constrained with them.

Elanders definitely don’t allow much in the room of COL. I like what Geissele did with the laser weld on the back of the ARC mags, so COL is the longest I’ve seen so far.
 
#459
LRRPF52 said:
Your internal dimensions might be too constrained with them.

Elanders definitely don’t allow much in the room of COL. I like what Geissele did with the laser weld on the back of the ARC mags, so COL is the longest I’ve seen so far.
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Anyone else tried this 5/16 round mag from Brenton. Will go to 2.3 OAL, though I might have a concern about recoil induced bullet pushback. More, after some testing. Insert limits you to 5 rounds, they say 16-I’d prefer to hold it to 15, with limiter removed.IMG_0431.jpegIMG_0433.jpeg
 
#462
Hodgdon’s just added 33 new loads on their site for 6.5 Grendel, including the new Hornady 100gr ELD-VT and the 105gr CEB Maximus from Cutting Edge.

100gr ELD-VT is doing 2804-2900fps with 9 of the loads (24” barrel).
 
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#464
KitShickers said:
When can we expect an update on your "project"?
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There are multiple technology paths being developed parallel to the internal ballistics, so it’s a lot more than just slinging projectiles at 3050fps from an 8.5” PDW.

Think about all the issues with Laser Aiming Modules, battery boxes and cables all over the gun, with what was once lightweight and handy turned into a front-heavy brick. I hate all of that, but the capabilities justify the penalties for those that need them.

I know we can do so much better than what we have though, but it is extremely hard to do, and every path has many real hurdles that need to be overcome with sound design, testing, and refinement.

It requires a totally new business model for organizational structure in the firearms industry, because we’re now fully invested in the electro-optics, signature reduction, power management, processing, and materials science industries, only everyone has been approaching it from one segment of the market without total vision for the subcontractors. That’s the real problem with modern firearms right now.
 
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#465
pangris said:
Interesting. 90% of the time I use E Landers in this config and have zero problems, 100% suppressed and usually dirty. I do clean them from time to time but more from my experience with other calibers.

I have C Products, Dura, E Lander and maybe another brand somewhere and I've not really had a situation where a gun displayed a preference - they worked or they didn't, regardless of the mag.
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I’ve been using C-Products Duramags that are for 7.62x39 to supplement my Elanders. The 20-round mags work great.
The 30 and 28 rounders not as good - unless only 20-rounds in the mag.

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#467
I’ve never used any of those exaggerated curve mags meant for 7.62x39 case taper. Grendel mag guide grooves are much more shallow than 5.56 mags. His cartridges were getting stuck at the mouth on the inside edge of the front wall of the mag, which doesn’t happen when the mag is inside the weapon because the meplat is already riding up the feed ramps.

The magazines have to be studied as part of the receiver set, barrel extension, and feed cone in the breech. Guys playing with cartridges in un-inserted magazines will start to draw false conclusions about the feeding process.

I just don’t have these issues with old CPD, Elanders, Amend2 polymer, and later ASC mags.

I use a lot of later production ASC 25rd mags in the 12” Grendel as my go-to.

If I’m constrained to bench clearance, I use the 15-17rd mags.

I also de-edge, blend, and polish my feed ramps on all ARs if the extensions haven’t been given a generous tumble-polish.
 
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#468
LRRPF52 said:
I’ve never used any of those exaggerated curve mags meant for 7.62x39 case taper. Grendel mag guide grooves are much more shallow than 5.56 mags. His cartridges were getting stuck at the mouth on the inside edge of the front wall of the mag, which doesn’t happen when the mag is inside the weapon because the meplat is already riding up the feed ramps.

The magazines have to be studied as part of the receiver set, barrel extension, and feed cone in the breech. Guys playing with cartridges in un-inserted magazines will start to draw false conclusions about the feeding process.

I just don’t have these issues with old CPD, Elanders, Amend2 polymer, and later ASC mags.

I use a lot of later production ASC 25rd mags in the 12” Grendel as my go-to.

If I’m constrained to bench clearance, I use the 15-17rd mags.

I also de-edge, blend, and polish my feed ramps on all ARs if the extensions haven’t been given a generous tumble-polish.
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Interesting. I cant get past 3-4rds before feeding issues with Elanders or ASC in my 18" Lilja/Mega billet upper. Duramag feeds without issue.
 
#470
Anyone have experience with the new Geissele 6 ARC mags? They are pricey but not too far out of line with what I am used to paying for good AICS and AW mags, and I don't mind spending a little extra if they are worth it.
 
#478
I have both(Grendel and ARC) the Grendel 22in and 18in running 107 tmks is pretty easy to 800 yards. The Grendel is very easy to handload for and much more consistent than the 5.56 SD and ES wise. The problem is wind kills the grendel shifting winds really kills the grendel bullets. The 6 arc is much more consistent in the long ranges because of the BC. If the wind is dead or steady its a toss up. If you dont handload you should probably just stay with the 5.56 you wont get the benefits. The prs style gas gun matches are really being dominanted by the 6 arc and 6.5 grendel. The 5.56 doesnt hit the plate like either of the two. Is a 6.5 cm or 308 better probably but the small frame ars just run better.
 
#479
Grendels did the thing again this weekend. 20" and 12.5" recovered 4 pigs and 3 yotes in 3 nights, and another 3 pigs that made it deep enough into the woods we didn't recover the bodies but the birds and smell proved confirmation on another 3.

So, 7 down, approx 50 million to go...

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#480
Anyone here running a 10.5" Grendel. I already have and love my 12.5" Grendel, but am wondering if I can go even smaller and lighter...
I'm considering ordering a Sigma Six to make a handy general purpose truck gun. Are they finicky with their carbine gas length and short dwell time?
If I go this rout, I'd be getting a Magnus to suppress it.
 
#481
Bakwa said:
Anyone here running a 10.5" Grendel. I already have and love my 12.5" Grendel, but am wondering if I can go even smaller and lighter...
I'm considering ordering a Sigma Six to make a handy general purpose truck gun. Are they finicky with their carbine gas length and short dwell time?
If I go this rout, I'd be getting a Magnus to suppress it.
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I have a 11” carbine gas barrel that is reliable. No function issues, but it is very finicky with loads- and shoots Hornady Black at about 3 moa. And the 1 hand load that shot well is SLOW! I moved to a 12.5” mid length that hammers. No, I don’t think my issues with the shorter barrel are gas length related. I wouldn’t be too concerned with going short.
 
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#483
I'm not here to say to avoid the 10.5" Grendel as I have no direct experience - and I believe our esteemed in house Grendel expert, LRRPF52, may go shorter - but until he releases the secret squirrel ammo he's working on, I see it like this - 2200 FPS is where you get meaningful hydrostatic shock. I'm getting 2450 fps out of 100 gr Hornady ELD-VT. It is working REALLY well out to 200 yards. Accuracy is sub MOA. I'm not messing with that formula for a couple inches and a couple ounces.

​

 
#484
Grendel bolts sheering lugs is a concern. I would want the longest gas system possible with least dwell within reason. In my mind that is a 12.5" Mid. 10.5" 556 bolts are already known to break at the cam pin because of the short gas system, the Grendel will move the failure point to the lugs.
 
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#485
Bakwa said:
Anyone here running a 10.5" Grendel. I already have and love my 12.5" Grendel, but am wondering if I can go even smaller and lighter...
I'm considering ordering a Sigma Six to make a handy general purpose truck gun. Are they finicky with their carbine gas length and short dwell time?
If I go this rout, I'd be getting a Magnus to suppress it.
Click to expand...
I have a 10.5” CLGS 6.5 Grendel Criterion pipe from Precision Firearms but I haven’t focused on it yet. I’m kind of skipping to 8.5” Criterion from PF.

12” CLGS has run liked a scalded ape across 2x builds with the same barrel/bolt/Bootleg carriers, one with TBAC Ultra 7, the other TBAC Ultra 5. Built them both in 2017, one for a friend, the other for me. He got the 2A Balios Lite receiver set.

But AA started making 10.5” Grendel complete carbines and uppers back in the 2000s-early 2010s. Bill said he used a 10.5” Grendel on select-fire/Full Auto to test mag feeding before they put their stamp of approval on mags from different batches if I recall him correctly.
 
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#486
Cascade Hemi said:
Grendel bolts sheering lugs is a concern. I would want the longest gas system possible with least dwell within reason. In my mind that is a 12.5" Mid. 10.5" 556 bolts are already known to break at the cam pin because of the short gas system, the Grendel will move the failure point to the lugs.
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I feel like I’ve been trying to break Grendel bolt lugs for 15 years now. What am I doing wrong guys!!!!

Started with 16” MLGS, then 17.6” MLGS (-.625”), 18” MLGS, 16” MLGS again, 24” RLGS, 12” CLGS suppressed. I’ve been really hammering that 12” Grendel. My spent brass deflectors look like they’ve been through hell.

Surely I will break the 8.5”! It has pistol-length gas!

Not including the Underwood Ammo, there are now 131 SKUs for factory ammo if we include the new Hornady 90gr CX.

100gr ELD-VT is doing 2690fps avg from 18” barrels, even though the box says 2730fps from 24". Feels like shooting 6mm AR to me when I shoot it through the 17.6” Grendel out to 1000yds. Super-flat, minimal wind, fast ToF.
 
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#487
LRRPF52 said:
I feel like I’ve been trying to break Grendel bolt lugs for 15 years now. What am I doing wrong guys!!!!

Started with 16” MLGS, then 17.6” MLGS (-.625”), 18” MLGS, 16” MLGS again, 24” RLGS, 12” CLGS suppressed. I’ve been really hammering that 12” Grendel. My spent brass deflectors look like they’ve been through hell.

Surely I will break the 8.5”! It has pistol-length gas!

Not including the Underwood Ammo, there are now 131 SKUs for factory ammo if we include the new Hornady 90gr CX.

100gr ELD-VT is doing 2690fps avg from 18” barrels, even though the box says 2730fps from 24". Feels like shooting 6mm AR to me when I shoot it through the 17.6” Grendel out to 1000yds. Super-flat, minimal wind, fast ToF.
Click to expand...

If you had to pick 107smk or 107tmk? I think the tmk holds better for close distance deer hunting no?
 
#488
LRRPF52 said:
I feel like I’ve been trying to break Grendel bolt lugs for 15 years now. What am I doing wrong guys!!!!

Started with 16” MLGS, then 17.6” MLGS (-.625”), 18” MLGS, 16” MLGS again, 24” RLGS, 12” CLGS suppressed. I’ve been really hammering that 12” Grendel. My spent brass deflectors look like they’ve been through hell.

Surely I will break the 8.5”! It has pistol-length gas!

Not including the Underwood Ammo, there are now 131 SKUs for factory ammo if we include the new Hornady 90gr CX.

100gr ELD-VT is doing 2690fps avg from 18” barrels, even though the box says 2730fps from 24". Feels like shooting 6mm AR to me when I shoot it through the 17.6” Grendel out to 1000yds. Super-flat, minimal wind, fast ToF.
Click to expand...
No idea, maybe just do whatever the people with broken bolts do? The under cut lug on my AA bolt broke off.
 
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#496
pangris said:
Tomorrow night, there is a 72% chance pigs or yotes will fall to 100 gr ELD-VT...
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I plan to shoot a doe with a 100gr ELD-VT and see how it does. These shoot really well in my ARP and Rainier Match barrels. I plan to move one of my thermals from a 5.56 over to a Grendel this year for coyotes after deer season ends.
 
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#498
TonyTheTiger said:
Don't forget to keep in mind just how small the market for this stuff is relative to the rest of the firearms world.
In your average gun shop how many customers and employees are "AR people"? Since that's really who this stuff is for. Then remember that probably 50% of AR owners don't shoot them, 30% shoot watermelons and tannerite on holiday weekends. How many of the remaining percentage follow this stuff and have an interest in long range shooting?
Obviously those people are out there, and a bunch of them are members here, but in the grand scheme of things it's hard to imagine this stuff will ever be 30-06 and 9x19 mainstream.
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Hornady is a marketing machine. In the last few years I’ve seen more and more niche ar ammo for sale in stores. Even the ACE hardware stores here are stocking 6.8spc, 22&6ARC, 22 Valkyrie, and 6.5 Grendel.

Hunters here in Georgia have really embraced the AR as a hunting rifle and want something that hits harder than 5.56 but don’t want the size and weight penalty of stepping up to a large frame. I see the ARCs, Grendel, and to some degree 6.8spc gaining wider acceptance and growing in popularity.

This year alone there have been 8 guys I work with buy or build a Grendel or 6ARC to use as a year round deer and varmint gun.
 
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#499
stello1001 said:
Is blitzking rapid expanding and fragmenting or more controlled?

I'm trying to think of a light-ish bullet for small south texas deer.

I'll be honest, that's one bullet I really don't know much of.
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From Sierra’s description, it sounds like a varmint bullet, but the lighter varmint bullets in Grendel demonstrate controlled expansion in medium game because they aren’t hitting as fast, unless you spit them out from a 22”-28” barrel at 2900-3220fps.

I know 90gr TNT is one of the preferred loads for hog hunting for guys that have used it for years. Everyone told them it would blow up and not penetrate, so they tried it and saw DRT after DRT with fast ToF, flat trajectory, so they kept using it.

I shot the 90gr TNT through a brake disc recently and it fragmented a lot, but also perforated the disc. That was from my 12” Grendel.

If you want a premium bullet that goes really fast, you can try the Hammer Hunter HT 80gr. Those do:

3150fps from a 24” barrel
3060fps from 20"
3010fps from 18"
2950fps from 16"
2890fps from 14.5"
2810fps from 12.5"
2700fps from 10.5"

90gr TNT Federal box ammo does 2700fps from my 12” suppressed.
 
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#500
Jsp556 said:
Hornady is a marketing machine. In the last few years I’ve seen more and more niche ar ammo for sale in stores. Even the ACE hardware stores here are stocking 6.8spc, 22&6ARC, 22 Valkyrie, and 6.5 Grendel.

Hunters here in Georgia have really embraced the AR as a hunting rifle and want something that hits harder than 5.56 but don’t want the size and weight penalty of stepping up to a large frame. I see the ARCs, Grendel, and to some degree 6.8spc gaining wider acceptance and growing in popularity.

This year alone there have been 8 guys I work with buy or build a Grendel or 6ARC to use as a year round deer and varmint gun.
Click to expand...
From the hunting perspective, it’s kinda like someone took the popularity of the Rem 700 action and performance of .30-30 and .243 Winchester, put it all in a semi-automatic blender, and created a new market that is dramatically-different than grandpa’s M16 from Vietnam.
 
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