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WTF barrel worms?
- Thread starter Sako man
- Start date
You don’t store your rifles in the safe with suppressors mounted, are you?
That looks a lot like a friend’s rifles - all had to be rebarreled. He cleaned his rifles after range sessions or hunting, attached the suppressors again and put the rifles away in his safe. I think condensation, powder residue and other nasties would flow down the barrel and mix with solvent residue to produce something that appears to eat through everything.
Or it’s just like super bad range karma.
That looks a lot like a friend’s rifles - all had to be rebarreled. He cleaned his rifles after range sessions or hunting, attached the suppressors again and put the rifles away in his safe. I think condensation, powder residue and other nasties would flow down the barrel and mix with solvent residue to produce something that appears to eat through everything.
Or it’s just like super bad range karma.
I have seen this a few times and only in carbon barrels. Not that it couldn’t happen in SS barrels, I’ve just never seen it, yet. My thoughts are the powder fouling in the barrel attracts moisture and causes this.
I have a hunting gun like this and a practice barrel. I have no issues with accuracy due to it. I did run some Tubb throat maintenance rounds down the practice barrel when I first discovered it just to smooth any raised edges out if there were any.
I have a hunting gun like this and a practice barrel. I have no issues with accuracy due to it. I did run some Tubb throat maintenance rounds down the practice barrel when I first discovered it just to smooth any raised edges out if there were any.
They're a zirconium- gadolinium metallic bore weevil... You can bel'ee dat!
If you don't already have one, a Goldenrod dehumidifier works very well. The temp inside the safe will be a few degrees warmer than the outside keeping the humidity lower than the surrounding air.
What, exactly, are you using as products in your rifle(s)? Walk us through a cleaning, don't leave out any details. Walk us through the lubrication process you use. How are you storing them? What's the humidity where you store them (you can buy cheap temperature/humidity sensors that can be left inside and will spit out high/low/average over 24 hours; if in a safe, make sure to put it inside the safe with the rifles)? Something isn't right, and you've already identified it has to be a part of your process since it's impacting multiple barrels. Unfortunately, without any detail, we'd just be shooting into the dark trying to guess what's happened here.
Comprehensive Corrosion Test: 46 Products Compared | Day At The Range
By: DIY_guy We all want to use goods quality products on our guns, bows, fishing gear, knives, autos, hunting and lake front gear and like you I?m not a fan of letting things get rust on them nor am I a fan of items wearing out prematurely. To protect my investment in gear, I began
dayattherange.com
My humble observation. It's not pitting. Pitting makes pitts Duh! It's not corrosion. Corrosion does not form the linear (threading) progression in the images. Cracks however do show linear progression and not necessarily in a straight line.
If this was from something you are cleaning it with, or not cleaning it at all, for sure it would be all over the place. These patterns are localized and seem to be coming from inside the steel out to the surface. If this was from the top down it would show OVER the copper, not UNDER it.
There are studies around about steel going from ductile to brittle. Starts on the inside and comes from stress under heat. Eventually it turns to fractures. Your steel problem has not broken the surface, but something seems to be bubbling up from the inside.
Either this or it's a virus
Chlorine comes from smokeless powder in the form of Chlorate ClO−3, which is a +5 degraded form of the Chlorine atom.....
I've seen something similar happen to one of my metal rulers that had a clearcoat on top, but it wasn't stainless. Moisture found it's way under the clear coat and started making similar pattern. I wonder if there was some substance coating the barrel during storage, then moisture got under and it started to corrode.
Here is a photo that is similar to what I had happen.
Here is a photo that is similar to what I had happen.
Well.... I usually pour salt water down the barrel to cool it off after shooting each round. But that's probably not doing anything bad....
Jokes aside. I am usually throwing a few patches of M-Pro-7 on some jag patches to de carbonize the barrel, this usually happens same day as shooting, I will usually chase it with a dry cotton patch. Some range days I come home and just throw the rifles in the safe uncleaned and not touch them again for weeks or months. So I can see some residue being left in the barrel. The safe is in a cold garage so could have some moisture. I do not use copper solvent or any harsh products, when I have scrubbed the barrels it was with a nylon brush or cotton patch, that's it. So bottom line no hard chemicals, many times left uncleaned, cold and sometimes damp garage.
That is crazy and very similar. Defiantly metallic bore weevil's.... defiantly!I've seen something similar happen to one of my metal rulers that had a clearcoat on top, but it wasn't stainless. Moisture found it's way under the clear coat and started making similar pattern. I wonder if there was some substance coating the barrel during storage, then moisture got under and it started to corrode.
Here is a photo that is similar to what I had happen.
I've seen something similar happen to one of my metal rulers that had a clearcoat on top, but it wasn't stainless. Moisture found it's way under the clear coat and started making similar pattern. I wonder if there was some substance coating the barrel during storage, then moisture got under and it started to corrode.
Here is a photo that is similar to what I had happen.
My humble observation. It's not pitting. Pitting makes pitts Duh! It's not corrosion. Corrosion does not form the linear (threading) progression in the images. Cracks however do show linear progression and not necessarily in a straight line.
If this was from something you are cleaning it with, or not cleaning it at all, for sure it would be all over the place. These patterns are localized and seem to be coming from inside the steel out to the surface. If this was from the top down it would show OVER the copper, not UNDER it.
There are studies around about steel going from ductile to brittle. Starts on the inside and comes from stress under heat. Eventually it turns to fractures. Your steel problem has not broken the surface, but something seems to be bubbling up from the inside.
Either this or it's a virus
like I said upthread - look into filiform corrosion, it does exactly that.
except that smokeless is based on nitrocellulose (and if double based add some nitroglycerin) - not chlorates.
priming compounds are ususlly things like lead azide or lead styphnate - no chlorine there either.
Jokes aside. I am usually throwing a few patches of M-Pro-7 on some jag patches to de carbonize the barrel, this usually happens same day as shooting, I will usually chase it with a dry cotton patch. Some range days I come home and just throw the rifles in the safe uncleaned and not touch them again for weeks or months. So I can see some residue being left in the barrel. The safe is in a cold garage so could have some moisture. I do not use copper solvent or any harsh products, when I have scrubbed the barrels it was with a nylon brush or cotton patch, that's it. So bottom line no hard chemicals, many times left uncleaned, cold and sometimes damp garage.
SM:
For what it is worth, here is my barrel cleaning/care protocol that I have used over many years, with good results (and from hard lessons learned). I am NOT suggesting that this is on the only way, but as we know in life, there is often more than one way to do most things correctly.
Prior to shooting:
1. Visually inspect the rifle, bolt face/lugs, muzzle device, scope/mounting system. Check tightness of any stock adjustments for length of pull, cheek piece knobs/etc.)
2. Swab out the bore with a dry, tightly fitting cotton patch to remove any lint, previously applied CLP (CLP/Break Free is my bias, due to years of use in the Army, comfort level of its protection of barrels, and excellent cold bore shot accuracy (There are no sighters in the President's Hundred match). I prefer the "parker hale" type jag and a wrapped cotton patch to increase the surface area for this task, as the "punch through" type has much less surface area contact.
3. Swab out the chamber with a Dewey coated pistol rod with two (2) 30-caliber cotton patches to remove any residue/lubricant.
4. Visually look down the barrel checking for any abnormalities (ok, so I'm a little ocd...)
5. Grease the locking lugs, cocking piece/firing pin contact areas with TW25B. Operate the bolt a few times to ensure distribution of the TW25B and confirm proper operation of the trigger. (RULE ONE: treat every firearm as if it were loaded)
During shooting:
1. Keep ammunition clean, dry, dust/sand free. My ammunition goes directly into magazines (internal or detachable), and never placed on the shooting table/surface where it can pick up dirt/sand/grass/etc.
After shooting:
1. I do my best to clean my barrels as soon as I get home from the range. "Later" often does not happen...
2. I remove the magazine, bolt, cover the scope lenses (either with caps, or with a clean towel, using rubber bands in a "figure 8"to hold it tightly and out of the way of the receiver/ejection port. Don't want to get solvent "spray" on expensive glass!
3. I have fitted bore guides for all of my rifles. This provides a better fit to the inner diameter of the receiver, seal in the chamber, and with enough length to prevent solvents from dripping down into the trigger mechanism, bedding area. I also put a small towel beneath the back end of the bore guide to protect the stock or my floor from dripping solvents.
4. I only used plastic coated, one piece cleaning rods at this time. Bore Tech seems to run more smoothly than Dewey over the years, YMMV... Won't get into the steel vs. coated arguments at this time. Keep the rod aligned with barrel during the stroking process. There are no extra points for "stroke speed" if you get what I mean when watching others.
5. I will punch through two wet patches with the punch through type jag and a loosely fitting patch straight through the muzzle into my waste bucket. This will remove the loose carbon fouling and wet the bore surface. I am very happy with Shooter's Choice (SC) bore solvent, and usually the gallon size will last a long time. I am aware of the many choices out there (too many, but hey, this is America!).
6. I will then use a bronze brush to clean out the barrel with Shooter's Choice. I will push it through the muzzle, apply the solvent over my garbage/bucket, and then stroke it back and forth 10 times, then reapply the SC and repeat. I am NOT so ocd that I remove the brush at the muzzle after every single pass. Got a life too... Some folks prefer nylon brushes for this step, but I just don't feel that I get enough "cleaning power" to clean out the carbon and initial copper fouling with them. NOTE: NEVER use a stainless steel bore brush. They WILL scratch the bore. I have confirmed this with my Hawkeye borescope. I will let my barrel "soak" for 2-5 minutes in SC while I clean the bolt, magazine, pistols, etc.
7. I will punch through a patch with SC to assess the level of work remaining. Black/grey residue is powder fouling. Blue residue is copper fouling. If I did not shoot too much and the patch is reasonably clean, I will then stop at this point. If there still is a lot of either black/blue, I will repeat the bronze brush/SC 10-20 strokes, verify with SC patch until I'm satisfied to the level. I no longer clean a barrel until "perfectly clean" as it unnecessary. Takes too much time, wastes too much resources, and with modern barrel steels, really is not needed.
7a. IF my barrel has been shot a lot, nor had a "deep cleaning" in some time, or is "new" to me, I will then ADD the use of copper solvent and nylon bore brush (the solvent does the work here by chemical reaction). I am currently very happy with Bore Tech Eliminator (BTE). Back in the day, Sweets 762 was the bomb, but damn, was it hard on the nostrils! Be advised that BTE is "basic" in pH and will degrade your skin. I will typically use a latex/nitrile glove when using this in quantity. 10/20 strokes, let it sit for 2-5 minutes, then punch through with a patch slightly wet with BTE until ALL the blue is gone. Once the patch is devoid of any blue, go to step 8. CAUTION: DO NOT LEAVE BTE (or any other copper solvent) in your barrel "overnight." I have found etching/scoring from past use.
7b. IF the barrel is not copper free by this point, or is an "old/pitted" gun, then I will use JB bore paste (BLUE label, NOT the Red label) with a "3/4" cut patch wrapped over an old/loose bronze brush" for the deepest of cleaning. I will stroke back and forth (stop the forward/backward stroke "half" the length of the brush otherwise the wrapped patch will unravel), for 10 times (at which time the patch will be very black). After 10 strokes, I will punch through a SC-patch, dry patch, then bore scope. I will repeat this process until all carbon and copper fouling is gone. Of course, a borescope is needed for this level of scrutiny, but hey, we do love our gadgets! I collect older military rifles, and 7b is often needed to get to the bare steel.
8. I will then punch through 2 patches with Gunscrubber to clean out the SC solvent (or JB bore paste) from the barrel. I will remove the bore guide, dry off any solvent, dry out the chamber as above for prior to shooting, and replace the bore guide.
9. At this point, I will then "coat" the bore with a wrapped patch with "9 dots" of CLP (patch saturation without dripping) with slow, even strokes several times and then out the muzzle. I will use that CLP-soaked patch for wiping down my bolt, etc.
10. I will coat the exposed steel surfaces of my firearms with a shaving brush with CLP (squeeze the brush tightly, apply some CLP to the center of the brush hairs) and presto, you will be able to get into all of the nooks and crannies of your investment. Wipe off the excess CLP with your handy oil-soaked/preservative rag.
Storage
1. I typically store all of my rifles muzzle down so that any fluids run into a medicine bottle top or rubber coaster, rather than into the bedding area.
2. I have a Golden Rod in my safe. I also have humidity/temperature gauges in the safe for peace of mind.
3. I have a Mitsubishi ductless system in my garage to maintain humidity to around the 50% level. This protects my vehicles, tools, and reloading equipment from the salt air/humidity here in Florida.
I hope that this helps.
longebow
SM:
For what it is worth, here is my barrel cleaning/care protocol that I have used over many years, with good results (and from hard lessons learned). I am NOT suggesting that this is on the only way, but as we know in life, there is often more than one way to do most things correctly.
Prior to shooting:
1. Visually inspect the rifle, bolt face/lugs, muzzle device, scope/mounting system. Check tightness of any stock adjustments for length of pull, cheek piece knobs/etc.)
2. Swab out the bore with a dry, tightly fitting cotton patch to remove any lint, previously applied CLP (CLP/Break Free is my bias, due to years of use in the Army, comfort level of its protection of barrels, and excellent cold bore shot accuracy (There are no sighters in the President's Hundred match). I prefer the "parker hale" type jag and a wrapped cotton patch to increase the surface area for this task, as the "punch through" type has much less surface area contact.
3. Swab out the chamber with a Dewey coated pistol rod with two (2) 30-caliber cotton patches to remove any residue/lubricant.
4. Visually look down the barrel checking for any abnormalities (ok, so I'm a little ocd...)
5. Grease the locking lugs, cocking piece/firing pin contact areas with TW25B. Operate the bolt a few times to ensure distribution of the TW25B and confirm proper operation of the trigger. (RULE ONE: treat every firearm as if it were loaded)
During shooting:
1. Keep ammunition clean, dry, dust/sand free. My ammunition goes directly into magazines (internal or detachable), and never placed on the shooting table/surface where it can pick up dirt/sand/grass/etc.
After shooting:
1. I do my best to clean my barrels as soon as I get home from the range. "Later" often does not happen...
2. I remove the magazine, bolt, cover the scope lenses (either with caps, or with a clean towel, using rubber bands in a "figure 8"to hold it tightly and out of the way of the receiver/ejection port. Don't want to get solvent "spray" on expensive glass!
3. I have fitted bore guides for all of my rifles. This provides a better fit to the inner diameter of the receiver, seal in the chamber, and with enough length to prevent solvents from dripping down into the trigger mechanism, bedding area. I also put a small towel beneath the back end of the bore guide to protect the stock or my floor from dripping solvents.
4. I only used plastic coated, one piece cleaning rods at this time. Bore Tech seems to run more smoothly than Dewey over the years, YMMV... Won't get into the steel vs. coated arguments at this time. Keep the rod aligned with barrel during the stroking process. There are no extra points for "stroke speed" if you get what I mean when watching others.
5. I will punch through two wet patches with the punch through type jag and a loosely fitting patch straight through the muzzle into my waste bucket. This will remove the loose carbon fouling and wet the bore surface. I am very happy with Shooter's Choice (SC) bore solvent, and usually the gallon size will last a long time. I am aware of the many choices out there (too many, but hey, this is America!).
6. I will then use a bronze brush to clean out the barrel with Shooter's Choice. I will push it through the muzzle, apply the solvent over my garbage/bucket, and then stroke it back and forth 10 times, then reapply the SC and repeat. I am NOT so ocd that I remove the brush at the muzzle after every single pass. Got a life too... Some folks prefer nylon brushes for this step, but I just don't feel that I get enough "cleaning power" to clean out the carbon and initial copper fouling with them. NOTE: NEVER use a stainless steel bore brush. They WILL scratch the bore. I have confirmed this with my Hawkeye borescope. I will let my barrel "soak" for 2-5 minutes in SC while I clean the bolt, magazine, pistols, etc.
7. I will punch through a patch with SC to assess the level of work remaining. Black/grey residue is powder fouling. Blue residue is copper fouling. If I did not shoot too much and the patch is reasonably clean, I will then stop at this point. If there still is a lot of either black/blue, I will repeat the bronze brush/SC 10-20 strokes, verify with SC patch until I'm satisfied to the level. I no longer clean a barrel until "perfectly clean" as it unnecessary. Takes too much time, wastes too much resources, and with modern barrel steels, really is not needed.
7a. IF my barrel has been shot a lot, nor had a "deep cleaning" in some time, or is "new" to me, I will then ADD the use of copper solvent and nylon bore brush (the solvent does the work here by chemical reaction). I am currently very happy with Bore Tech Eliminator (BTE). Back in the day, Sweets 762 was the bomb, but damn, was it hard on the nostrils! Be advised that BTE is "basic" in pH and will degrade your skin. I will typically use a latex/nitrile glove when using this in quantity. 10/20 strokes, let it sit for 2-5 minutes, then punch through with a patch slightly wet with BTE until ALL the blue is gone. Once the patch is devoid of any blue, go to step 8. CAUTION: DO NOT LEAVE BTE (or any other copper solvent) in your barrel "overnight." I have found etching/scoring from past use.
7b. IF the barrel is not copper free by this point, or is an "old/pitted" gun, then I will use JB bore paste (BLUE label, NOT the Red label) with a "3/4" cut patch wrapped over an old/loose bronze brush" for the deepest of cleaning. I will stroke back and forth (stop the forward/backward stroke "half" the length of the brush otherwise the wrapped patch will unravel), for 10 times (at which time the patch will be very black). After 10 strokes, I will punch through a SC-patch, dry patch, then bore scope. I will repeat this process until all carbon and copper fouling is gone. Of course, a borescope is needed for this level of scrutiny, but hey, we do love our gadgets! I collect older military rifles, and 7b is often needed to get to the bare steel.
8. I will then punch through 2 patches with Gunscrubber to clean out the SC solvent (or JB bore paste) from the barrel. I will remove the bore guide, dry off any solvent, dry out the chamber as above for prior to shooting, and replace the bore guide.
9. At this point, I will then "coat" the bore with a wrapped patch with "9 dots" of CLP (patch saturation without dripping) with slow, even strokes several times and then out the muzzle. I will use that CLP-soaked patch for wiping down my bolt, etc.
10. I will coat the exposed steel surfaces of my firearms with a shaving brush with CLP (squeeze the brush tightly, apply some CLP to the center of the brush hairs) and presto, you will be able to get into all of the nooks and crannies of your investment. Wipe off the excess CLP with your handy oil-soaked/preservative rag.
Storage
1. I typically store all of my rifles muzzle down so that any fluids run into a medicine bottle top or rubber coaster, rather than into the bedding area.
2. I have a Golden Rod in my safe. I also have humidity/temperature gauges in the safe for peace of mind.
3. I have a Mitsubishi ductless system in my garage to maintain humidity to around the 50% level. This protects my vehicles, tools, and reloading equipment from the salt air/humidity here in Florida.
I hope that this helps.
longebow
Wait you don’t use a dehumidifier or golden rod in the safe or anything ?
Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover ... with a final patch of CLP for lubrication when storing. That combination is awesome (IMHO).
So talking to my buddy who works on a button barrel line he's says worms, yes that's what they call them, are caused when there is a tiny nick on the button that create hairs of metal that get pressed into the bore. Since the barrels are oiled between every step there would be a layer in-between the bore and the worms so they can separate later on. He says they can be hard to catch since it's more likely to happen at the end of the buttons life so it might only happen on a few blanks. We also pontificated that the mechanical bond between the worms and the bore is rather random which is why sometimes you see them right away and other times they aren't being seen till after shooting/cleaning/heat cycle and they come free. Would also explain why it looks like corrosion since there might be some happening between the worms and the bore.
Here is what I do...take it for what it's worth...which, you didn't pay for it.
First, I use bore guides and coated rods unless I am HAVING to clean in the field and then I use the Otis stuff. I use the Otis stuff on my Garand and others that are not easy to get a rod from breech to muzzle.
Second, I never use copper or brass brushes, just the nylon and I like the aluminum with the nylon.
Third, ALWAYS breech to muzzle.
Fourth, a patch, brush or whatever gets removed before returning to the breech. BREECH TO MUZZLE ALWAYS.
Fifth....did I mention breech to muzzle?
Think of it this way, with a new barrel...there are machine marks that need polished out. You are polishing those out with copper jacketed high speed polishing media.
First patch is a wet patch wrapped jag of Hoppes #9 for the carbon and powder fouling. I follow that with patches wrapped on a brush of Naptha (zippo lighter fluid is mostly Naptha, I'm a FUDD and old habits die hard) that I get at Home Depot. I patch it until the patches come out pretty clean. Then I run another patch of Hoppes #9. This time, I let it soak for 10 minutes (set a timer), then I do the Naptha patches again until fairly clean. Follow this with ANOTHER Hoppes patch and more Naptha. I do this until the first Naptha patch comes out pretty clean.
Now, here is the copper part. I use Butch's Bore Shine. You gotta be careful with most copper removers, read the directions. I run a jagged patch of Butch's, followed immediately with another jagged patch of Butch's. I set a timer for 12 minutes (read your directions). When the bell dings, I start with the patches on a brush with Naptha. Your first Naptha patch is your "reader"...look for green, blue or some similar that indicates that you have some copper fouling. Continue the Naptha until the patches are fairly clean. Then, again with a jagged patch of Butch's followed immediately with another. Set the timer. Etc. Repeat until that first Naptha patch is quite clean when it comes out of the bore.
I could give a shit if this uses 1000 patches or if it takes me all day.
Once I am convinced that I have removed all the powder residue with Hoppe's and all the copper with Butch's, I run more patches of Naptha just to be sure I have removed all the cleaning agents (especially the copper remover, read your directions). I follow that with a dry patch or 2 and, depending on how long I figure that bore will be stored, I follow with a jagged patch of oil. If I intend to shoot right away, I use a light machine oil, I like Kroil and Ballistol. If I know it will be stored for more than a week, I use the WD-40 long term storage stuff, but when I run out of that can, I am going to switch to the Hornady One-Shot due to results gathered from a couple of studies on corrosion prevention. Here is one: https://dayattherange.com/?page_id=3667
Before I go shoot, in either case, I run a wet patch of Kroil or Ballistol and follow that with a few dry patches.
I almost always clean after every session, usually about 200 rounds. I don't debate about not cleaning until you "have" to and all that crap. It's just not open for debate with me.
If I am hunting, I will not clean daily but might run a patch of naptha followed by an oil patch if I've been in some fine dust or rain but usually just wait until I'm back home.
I think you might have nailed it. The next question is - what's the coating? I have used M-Pro7o gun cleaner in the past and remember reading that it "conditions" the barrel by leaving a coating that reduces fouling or something to that effect.
If you look at that corrosion study, and others, you can realize that the coating trapping the water (or other corrosive factor) can very well be the stuff that is supposed to prevent the corrosion in the first place. Most of the oils we use for corrosion prevention are pretty much useless.
I feel like I just read Tolstoy....ha!Jokes aside. I am usually throwing a few patches of M-Pro-7 on some jag patches to de carbonize the barrel, this usually happens same day as shooting, I will usually chase it with a dry cotton patch. Some range days I come home and just throw the rifles in the safe uncleaned and not touch them again for weeks or months. So I can see some residue being left in the barrel. The safe is in a cold garage so could have some moisture. I do not use copper solvent or any harsh products, when I have scrubbed the barrels it was with a nylon brush or cotton patch, that's it. So bottom line no hard chemicals, many times left uncleaned, cold and sometimes damp garage.
SM:
For what it is worth, here is my barrel cleaning/care protocol that I have used over many years, with good results (and from hard lessons learned). I am NOT suggesting that this is on the only way, but as we know in life, there is often more than one way to do most things correctly.
Prior to shooting:
1. Visually inspect the rifle, bolt face/lugs, muzzle device, scope/mounting system. Check tightness of any stock adjustments for length of pull, cheek piece knobs/etc.)
2. Swab out the bore with a dry, tightly fitting cotton patch to remove any lint, previously applied CLP (CLP/Break Free is my bias, due to years of use in the Army, comfort level of its protection of barrels, and excellent cold bore shot accuracy (There are no sighters in the President's Hundred match). I prefer the "parker hale" type jag and a wrapped cotton patch to increase the surface area for this task, as the "punch through" type has much less surface area contact.
3. Swab out the chamber with a Dewey coated pistol rod with two (2) 30-caliber cotton patches to remove any residue/lubricant.
4. Visually look down the barrel checking for any abnormalities (ok, so I'm a little ocd...)
5. Grease the locking lugs, cocking piece/firing pin contact areas with TW25B. Operate the bolt a few times to ensure distribution of the TW25B and confirm proper operation of the trigger. (RULE ONE: treat every firearm as if it were loaded)
During shooting:
1. Keep ammunition clean, dry, dust/sand free. My ammunition goes directly into magazines (internal or detachable), and never placed on the shooting table/surface where it can pick up dirt/sand/grass/etc.
After shooting:
1. I do my best to clean my barrels as soon as I get home from the range. "Later" often does not happen...
2. I remove the magazine, bolt, cover the scope lenses (either with caps, or with a clean towel, using rubber bands in a "figure 8"to hold it tightly and out of the way of the receiver/ejection port. Don't want to get solvent "spray" on expensive glass!
3. I have fitted bore guides for all of my rifles. This provides a better fit to the inner diameter of the receiver, seal in the chamber, and with enough length to prevent solvents from dripping down into the trigger mechanism, bedding area. I also put a small towel beneath the back end of the bore guide to protect the stock or my floor from dripping solvents.
4. I only used plastic coated, one piece cleaning rods at this time. Bore Tech seems to run more smoothly than Dewey over the years, YMMV... Won't get into the steel vs. coated arguments at this time. Keep the rod aligned with barrel during the stroking process. There are no extra points for "stroke speed" if you get what I mean when watching others.
5. I will punch through two wet patches with the punch through type jag and a loosely fitting patch straight through the muzzle into my waste bucket. This will remove the loose carbon fouling and wet the bore surface. I am very happy with Shooter's Choice (SC) bore solvent, and usually the gallon size will last a long time. I am aware of the many choices out there (too many, but hey, this is America!).
6. I will then use a bronze brush to clean out the barrel with Shooter's Choice. I will push it through the muzzle, apply the solvent over my garbage/bucket, and then stroke it back and forth 10 times, then reapply the SC and repeat. I am NOT so ocd that I remove the brush at the muzzle after every single pass. Got a life too... Some folks prefer nylon brushes for this step, but I just don't feel that I get enough "cleaning power" to clean out the carbon and initial copper fouling with them. NOTE: NEVER use a stainless steel bore brush. They WILL scratch the bore. I have confirmed this with my Hawkeye borescope. I will let my barrel "soak" for 2-5 minutes in SC while I clean the bolt, magazine, pistols, etc.
7. I will punch through a patch with SC to assess the level of work remaining. Black/grey residue is powder fouling. Blue residue is copper fouling. If I did not shoot too much and the patch is reasonably clean, I will then stop at this point. If there still is a lot of either black/blue, I will repeat the bronze brush/SC 10-20 strokes, verify with SC patch until I'm satisfied to the level. I no longer clean a barrel until "perfectly clean" as it unnecessary. Takes too much time, wastes too much resources, and with modern barrel steels, really is not needed.
7a. IF my barrel has been shot a lot, nor had a "deep cleaning" in some time, or is "new" to me, I will then ADD the use of copper solvent and nylon bore brush (the solvent does the work here by chemical reaction). I am currently very happy with Bore Tech Eliminator (BTE). Back in the day, Sweets 762 was the bomb, but damn, was it hard on the nostrils! Be advised that BTE is "basic" in pH and will degrade your skin. I will typically use a latex/nitrile glove when using this in quantity. 10/20 strokes, let it sit for 2-5 minutes, then punch through with a patch slightly wet with BTE until ALL the blue is gone. Once the patch is devoid of any blue, go to step 8. CAUTION: DO NOT LEAVE BTE (or any other copper solvent) in your barrel "overnight." I have found etching/scoring from past use.
7b. IF the barrel is not copper free by this point, or is an "old/pitted" gun, then I will use JB bore paste (BLUE label, NOT the Red label) with a "3/4" cut patch wrapped over an old/loose bronze brush" for the deepest of cleaning. I will stroke back and forth (stop the forward/backward stroke "half" the length of the brush otherwise the wrapped patch will unravel), for 10 times (at which time the patch will be very black). After 10 strokes, I will punch through a SC-patch, dry patch, then bore scope. I will repeat this process until all carbon and copper fouling is gone. Of course, a borescope is needed for this level of scrutiny, but hey, we do love our gadgets! I collect older military rifles, and 7b is often needed to get to the bare steel.
8. I will then punch through 2 patches with Gunscrubber to clean out the SC solvent (or JB bore paste) from the barrel. I will remove the bore guide, dry off any solvent, dry out the chamber as above for prior to shooting, and replace the bore guide.
9. At this point, I will then "coat" the bore with a wrapped patch with "9 dots" of CLP (patch saturation without dripping) with slow, even strokes several times and then out the muzzle. I will use that CLP-soaked patch for wiping down my bolt, etc.
10. I will coat the exposed steel surfaces of my firearms with a shaving brush with CLP (squeeze the brush tightly, apply some CLP to the center of the brush hairs) and presto, you will be able to get into all of the nooks and crannies of your investment. Wipe off the excess CLP with your handy oil-soaked/preservative rag.
Storage
1. I typically store all of my rifles muzzle down so that any fluids run into a medicine bottle top or rubber coaster, rather than into the bedding area.
2. I have a Golden Rod in my safe. I also have humidity/temperature gauges in the safe for peace of mind.
3. I have a Mitsubishi ductless system in my garage to maintain humidity to around the 50% level. This protects my vehicles, tools, and reloading equipment from the salt air/humidity here in Florida.
I hope that this helps.
longebow
Definitely some things here for me to learn from.
You and I are on the same page! I'm old school as well and pretty much do what you do. I read the corrosion blog article a ways back and did go with WD specialist. Then I saw another article somewhere, same sorts of test, and bought a bottle of G96 Synthetic CLP. I like it for the cleaning properties. If I'm going to store a gun for a long time I use Specialist. For ones I shoot every month I use G96. I have Kroll as well. Stuff lasts forever - a little drop goes a long ways!
For cleaning I have been using Butch's exclusively inside the barrels and Carbon Remover by Boretech for everything else, or if I only put a few rounds on a barrel. Butch's was recommended by Lilja barrels. I never looked back. Don't use naphtha - mineral spirits instead - but have to be careful because some spirits are diluted with water. I use the odorless kind with some of the volatiles removed.
And I wax my guns for storage everything external, including metal. I use the stuff museums use. This:
Renaissance Wax Polish
Whatr level of cleaning is required to prevent this? Is pulling a bore snake with clp enough? Or should someone do the full carbon/copper remover or Kroil, etc. with brushes, patches, etc.?
I guess what I am trying to understand in this case is, is the corrosion beginning from the bore (atmosphere) down onto the barrel steel, or is is starting underneath deposits on the steel that need to be physically/chemically removed to stop it?
I'm thinking a dehumidifier rod might be a good investment.
Dehumidifiers are a must. In a garage it might well be that you need an electrical rod.
My stuff is inside the house but I still felt that because of the tightly closed environment and other stuff inside that holds humidity I needed to dehumidify anyway. But I didn't want another electrical fire hazard.
So, I got the one below from Amazon. I've had it for 6~7 years and it still works perfectly. No power. I recharge it as needed by looking at the beads - usually about every 3 months. Recharging can take up to 12 hours (usually 8 hours) so plan accordingly!
In all those years all my firearms and other stuff in there have been perfectly kept. Zero traces of humidity problems. I also bought a cigar humidor hygrometer (mechanical not digital) and stuck it with Velcro inside the safe. The specs for the unit are probably overkill for a safe (500 cubic feet) but it lasts for months! And it's $20 bucks.
Eva-dry E-500 Renewable Mini Dehumidifier
Frank I have one of your barrels (wish I shot well enough to justify it but it sure is nice) sometimes I'm going 2-4 months without shooting it what is your SOP for cleaning it to take care of it.
This thread has me scared I’m deworming all my barrels
Be afraid, be very afraid! Yeah man, I got that shit in two of my barrels. Realized it's from moisture in the barrel from how I stored them. All my stuffs going in the closet now, wife will love that I'm sure. Buddy tuned me into KG2, which did a nice job of shining things up, followed up with some CLP protectant.
We used to take a steel trash can fill it with scalding hot water and scrub our M-60's and dry them in the hot sun.
Never flunked a CG inspection in 4 years.
Never flunked a CG inspection in 4 years.
Picked up a few of these. Seems like a good idea.
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I’ll have to contact a couple of powder makers and ask the question.
I do have pictures and samples of bullets from ammo that was only loaded for two months and a growth or corrosion had started on the bullet where powder was touching the bullet. I sent samples to a gov’t test facility as they have a powder expert there. They said they’ve never seen anything like it before but couldn’t pin down what was causing it. The guy that owned the powder (good friend and customer) thru out over $2k worth of powder. The powder maker replaced only 4# of the powder. I was told it has a shelf life now.
I also have powder that was never opened at the shop…it was opened, used one time and then went to use it again a couple of months later…and all the powder was bad. Had a odor that smelled like cholorine or ammonia and a red dust cloud came out of the container when it was opened.
Makes you wonder what is all going on at times?
Do something….
I clean as soon as I normally can.
I also leave a light coat of Hoppe’s #9 solvent in the bore. To me it protects as good as any oil and will also keep cleaning. Prior to shooting it I run a light patch of Hoppe’s down the bore and then a few dry patches out and then shoot it.
I haven’t had any issues with pitting using Hoppe’s.
In years past I’ve used CLP. I don’t use it for cleaning the bore and mostly for lubricating parts etc…but have run a patch down the bore prior to putting the gun away also.
Email me at work at [email protected]
I can send you an attachment instead of writing a small book here.
Later, Frank
I just talked to a buddy of mine. The last time he shot his 338 Lapua was 3 years ago. He just did a quick clean and put away and hasn‘t touched it since then. He found one spot 4” in front of the chamber but it’s light/not deep. So it doesn’t have that real black color to it. He took the gun out and shot it and it still shot like a million bucks. We made that barrel for him around 10 years ago.
In his case and he agrees…that just in front of the breech end of the barrel that it won‘t effect accuracy vs a bunch of spots or more areas at the muzzle end of the barrel.
He did acknowledge that he didn’t do a good cleaning job prior to putting it away.
So I think that is the underlying thing we see. Maintenance and preparation prior to storage.
In his case and he agrees…that just in front of the breech end of the barrel that it won‘t effect accuracy vs a bunch of spots or more areas at the muzzle end of the barrel.
He did acknowledge that he didn’t do a good cleaning job prior to putting it away.
So I think that is the underlying thing we see. Maintenance and preparation prior to storage.
If possible can I get a copy of this too? I just sent an email request - thanks.
I cant help but think "the bartlein book of barrel care" might be a bestseller..... your work email might be about to get inundated
Actually thought about a book. This topic and others always keep coming up. The problem or issue I should say is dealing with all the variables…that is the hard part.I cant help but think "the bartlein book of barrel care" might be a bestseller..... your work email might be about to get inundated
Work email hasn’t seen any let up at all! Work, email, phones have all been busy. Starting earlier last year it just all got busier and don’t see any let up at all! It’s just crazy!
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