Zealot Rifle Chassis by KMW

[Terry Cross]

What are you using? Cerakote?

Trying hard not to.

I have a kick ass anodizer that can hold very tight coating tolerances on hardcoat.

All of the pockets, holes and corners on the Zealot are a PITA to prep and CeraKote. Can certainly be done and I already do CeraKote in house but do not want that operational bottleneck added. If we can nail the anodizing hardcoat and get reasonable colors match, I want to go that way.

.

 

[Geno C.]

If Terry Cross is busy and can't accommodate (I'm sure he'll be pretty busy just trying to fill orders, rather then doing 1 off custom jobs), consider sending the chassis off to Branden at Custom Gun Coatings.

He does excellent work, will certainly do that KMW chassis justice. He's done some wild and unique paint jobs for me that have turned out fantastic.

The hole clearances are not really
Meant for anything other than anodizing from what Terry and I discussed.

 

[Geno C.]

I would love to.
The thought of that makes me moist.
However.....

There would be major changes needed to scale things up and I would also pretty much need to cater to one action brand/style/model as well as choose one standard magazine supplier that would work with said action.

..... may or may not need to modify existing or make new fixtures....

The market for such a creature would be pretty small and definitely out of my normal lane.

SO... yes I would love to but all the stars would have to align. Zero chance within the next 24 months because the other iterations have to come first.

Thanks for asking.

T.

Whom ever xlr used seems to make a very solid cheytac sized mag. I have a few of them if you ever get to the point that you need some measurements

 

[Terry Cross]

Nothing retarded or anything, just something fun. Since your clearances are not made to cooperate with a raw finish, something out of the ordinary would make for a cool piece for matches

I will be getting samples of other colors run on scrap 6061-T6 and 7075-T6 pieces to get a feel for them prior to the Competition model arriving. IF they are favorable and IF I can keep delivery running on the L.E. model in BLK/OD/FDE, I will certainly try to bring some through in your non-traditional colors.

LOTS of work to do before that decision can be made but I appreciate you even thinking about it.

T.

 

[kthomas]

The hole clearances are not really
Meant for anything other than anodizing from what Terry and I discussed.

I can't imagine that the only solution to your problem is anodizing.

Which holes are you speaking of? And why do they have to be painted? What if the chassis was anodized black, and the paint scheme was coordinated around that?

 

[Terry Cross]

The hole clearances are not really
Meant for anything other than anodizing from what Terry and I discussed.

The parts prep before anodizing involves a light abrasive blast to allow for a Matte finish to whatever color is ran. Even after anodizing, this should leave a pretty good surface structure for CeraKote to perform well on.

My goal is to make it just like the current MUNSter NV mounts, SENTINEL and LongSword DBMs, Mk1 and Mk2 DBMs, etc in that a 3rd party could chemically clean/degrease the existing anodized surface BUT NOT BLAST AWAY THE HARDCOAT and then apply whatever CeraKote colors they want. May have to mask/plug the hinge pin and Z-latch pivot pin holes but doable.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

Whom ever xlr used seems to make a very solid cheytac sized mag. I have a few of them if you ever get to the point that you need some measurements

If I get to that point, I would hope I could acquire dim prints from the magazine producer instead of measuring samples and guessing like all of us have to do with Accuracy International.

We shall see.

.

 

[SFree]

Mr. Cross,
Not to derail the thread, but have you cross checked the Terminus Zeus action with your Sentinal stock? It’s a difficult decision to make…

 

[Milf Dots]

This chassis looks amazing and has grabbed my attention! @Terry Cross Can it be made to work with a flat bottom action like the Kelbly Black Bear Tactical? @Ian A. Kelbly I know it's a long shot...

 

[Big Timber]

Mr. Cross,
Not to derail the thread, but have you cross checked the Terminus Zeus action with your Sentinal stock? It’s a difficult decision to make…

See post #135

 

[Precision Underground]

That stock looks really nice. IMO the stock can make or break a chassis.

 

[Gil P.]

Speaking of the stock, how wide is the cheek piece?

You hit a home run with the position and height on the Sentinel. I think a lot of stocks have the cheek piece too far to the rear or are to wide and push your face away from the center of the optic.

 

[Milf Dots]

Man that's a sweet looking chassis!

 

[SFree]

See post #135

Thank you, sir, but my query was about the Terminus/Sentinel and not the Zeus…

 

[Dr. Strangelove_207]

I know this is perhaps a longer shot than the Winchester Model 70 request but would anyone else like to see this inlet for a Sig Sauer SSG 3000 / Sauer 200 STR?

 

[fj40jay]

I know this is perhaps a longer shot than the Winchester Model 70 request but would anyone else like to see this inlet for a Sig Sauer SSG 3000 / Sauer 200 STR?

yes.

 

[Jackomason]

Question about the arca. How long is it and would it be remotely close to lining up with an aftermarket arca if it were to be added to the handguard? I know they are all different but if it's close it'll at least look clean.

Edit: any idea when a price is going to be announced?

 

[srt-4_uk]

Question about the arca. How long is it and would it be remotely close to lining up with an aftermarket arca if it were to be added to the handguard? I know they are all different but if it's close it'll at least look clean.

That going to depend entirely on the aftermarket arca rail you use.

 

[thelaststraw]

Well....this just about made up my mind. When I found out you (Terry Cross) were local to me I have had an eye on the Sentinel. That is a pretty sweet looking chassis. TBH I didn't even know who you were and it took a while before I realized (I'm very green to precision rifles and such). I'll have to get in touch at some point and check one out at some point.

 

[lash]

The main body is 23+ pounds of 7075-T6 going into the machine and 2.5 pounds coming out.
One piece for sure! LOL.

That is A LOT of chips!!

This chassis does for me what the sentinel does and that is a sexy stock. I like it a lot.

 

[Bradu]

Good looking chassis, i might have to get one for the barreled action sitting in the safe.

 

[Gil P.]

@Terry Cross

Are you going to keep the same forend for the competition model? Would you consider making a wider on the comp model similar in width to the Sentinel?

Since the bottom half of the forend is integral to the chassis I don't think it should have an integral area rail for the reasons you stated. If the rail gets damaged you're kind of screwed.

 

[Terry Cross]

This chassis looks amazing and has grabbed my attention! @Terry Cross Can it be made to work with a flat bottom action like the Kelbly Black Bear Tactical? I know it's a long shot...

Can it be made to work? . . . . I'm sorry to say I have no clue.
I have no dimensions for the KBBT and have never had one in the shop. Peeking at their web page, I would say there could be issues with the width of the receiver footprint among other things.

On the surface, I would say that there would be far too much CAD and programming necessary to make it a reasonable business decision. This is certainly not a knock at the Kelbly but rather the fact that there would be very, very few Black Bear users in this market and even fewer of those that would be looking for a chassis like the Zealot. If I ran 25 chassis for the KBBT, I would likely have 15 or more of them left 5 years later since that dedicated chassis could not work with any other action out there.

Wish I had more favorable news for you but that will likely be accurate for the time being.
Thank you for asking anyway.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

That stock looks really nice. IMO the stock can make or break a chassis.

Thank you for the complement.
Per one of my earlier posts, this chassis literally was born off of a sheet of features and attributes I wanted to stuff into a user friendly stock. However it was just going to look however everything could fall into place. I did try to soften the blow with plenty of blends and merged angles but that was limited to preserve strength and not crowd features.

Stocks are kinda like girlfriends, pickup trucks and puppy dogs . . . . . everybody will have different preferences that are hard to sway.

Interesting quote from Chuck Yeager and Scott Crossfield regarding their first looks at any new fighter jet that was rolled out for them to test during the 60s. They said they could look at a new fighter jet and almost nail if it was going to be hot shit or not. The best planes just looked right.

So far, lots of positive feedback fortunately.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

Mr. Cross,
Not to derail the thread, but have you cross checked the Terminus Zeus action with your Sentinal stock? It’s a difficult decision to make…

I am pretty sure there are a dozen or so SENTINEL stocks with the IMB feature hauling a Zeus around with no issues.

.

 

[SFree]

I am pretty sure there are a dozen or so SENTINEL stocks with the IMB feature hauling a Zeus around with no issues.

.

Kinda figured… ️

 

[Terry Cross]

Once the Zealot-L.E. starts shipping, the default grip will be the MagPul MOE grip as shown in the already posted images of this chassis.

While I like this grip for general use, I acknowledge that many will want to substitute a different grip that offers a more vertical orientation, etc.

One of the ones that I was able to access and check was the excellent TLCGrip that Mr. Troy Lawton designed.
The TLCGrip fit perfectly onto the Zealot chassis with no issues. It mounted up tight with zero play and no gaps. Everything felt very nice when my hands are in shooting position. This is an "ambi" grip with identical sides so no bias toward LH or RH. Very nice overmold surface design is non-slip and friendly to the touch.

Here are some quick phone camera images I was able to get during lunch.

These grips are compatible with most other chassis besides the Zealot and most gas guns out there.
Link to the TLCGrips web page is : https://tlcgrips.com/

I will try to get images and info of other grips as time and access permits.

Terry.

./

 

[J-Ham]

Damn Terry, that old timey Surgeon lookin' used & abused, haha! And no, the serial number was not lost on me.

 

[ForgeValley]

Damn Terry, that old timey Surgeon lookin' used & abused, haha! And no the serial number was not lost on me.

Ohh, it looks like it has one, it's just reaaaallly low?

That chassis tho. Fantastic work Terry!

 

[J-Ham]

Ohh, it looks like it has one, it's just reaaaallly low?

Added a comma so maybe my post makes more sense...

 

[ForgeValley]

ok got it, thought you were saying 'no serial number'!

 

[Milf Dots]

Terry, I love the cheekpiece hardware, it looks beefy and secure- like it won't move under heavy use... Is that Loggerhead based?

Many cheekpieces on stocks and chassis only have one vertical support, and/or friction only for locking in the adjustment, and they just look cheesy.

 

[bas402]

Once the Zealot-L.E. starts shipping, the default grip will be the MagPul MOE grip as shown in the already posted images of this chassis.

While I like this grip for general use, I acknowledge that many will want to substitute a different grip that offers a more vertical orientation, etc.

One of the ones that I was able to access and check was the excellent TLCGrip that Mr. Troy Lawton designed.
The TLCGrip fit perfectly onto the Zealot chassis with no issues. It mounted up tight with zero play and no gaps. Everything felt very nice when my hands are in shooting position. This is an "ambi" grip with identical sides so no bias toward LH or RH. Very nice overmold surface design is non-slip and friendly to the touch.

Here are some quick phone camera images I was able to get during lunch.

View attachment 7742516
View attachment 7742517

View attachment 7742518

These grips are compatible with most other chassis besides the Zealot and most gas guns out there.
Link to the TLCGrips web page is : https://tlcgrips.com/

I will try to get images and info of other grips as time and access permits.

Terry.

./

Give you a $1 for that action!!!

 

[Terry Cross]

Speaking of the stock, how wide is the cheek piece?

You hit a home run with the position and height on the Sentinel. I think a lot of stocks have the cheek piece too far to the rear or are to wide and push your face away from the center of the optic.

Thank you.

My personal opinion is that almost all glass, CF and composite stocks out there have cheek pieces that are far too large and have too much mass.
The Gen II mold of the SENTINEL reflects my thinking on this in that the CP is much smaller and shaped to help get most eyes into the scope's exit pupil without requiring a lot of head roll-over.

I kept the cheek piece of the Zealot as narrow as possible and still function the way I needed (back of bolt shroud passing under the front of CP on the magnum version as well as nesting down low over the top of the buttstock frame when all the way down.

After 3D printing a number of cross section shapes for the CP, I kept circling back to something close to the Gen II SENTINEL CP. Most face and cheek structures seem to be reasonably comfortable against this profile.

If your stock's cheek piece is too wide, it will always force your head laterally away from the exit pupil regardless of the height setting. This in turn forces excessive head rollover (when we would like to have that as close to zero as possible).

So my thinking is that the user can always add more width with the usual grunt materials but it is usually damned hard to make the width less than delivered.

Here is a cross section with your widths at different locations working.

.

 

[Terry Cross]

Damn Terry, that old timey Surgeon lookin' used & abused, haha! And no, the serial number was not lost on me.

Yes sir, that particular action has won numerous national and international comps including quite a few SH Cups. It has killed a lot of shit, been used in demos, been loaned to agencies after shootings, been used as a loaner in classes and been flown all over. It has a LOT of history starting with my friends that designed and manufactured it then finally ending up where it is now, pulling bitch duty on projects.

I need to do a final clean up on it, put a pretty CeraKote finish on the receiver and bolt handle and retire it. Will probably marry it back up to my original Gen I SENTINEL where it did most of its original carnage.

./

 

[gnochi]

Thank you.

My personal opinion is that almost all glass, CF and composite stocks out there have cheek pieces that are far too large and have too much mass.
The Gen II mold of the SENTINEL reflects my thinking on this in that the CP is much smaller and shaped to help get most eyes into the scope's exit pupil without requiring a lot of head roll-over.

I kept the cheek piece of the Zealot as narrow as possible and still function the way I needed (back of bolt shroud passing under the front of CP on the magnum version as well as nesting down low over the top of the buttstock frame when all the way down.

After 3D printing a number of cross section shapes for the CP, I kept circling back to something close to the Gen II SENTINEL CP. Most face and cheek structures seem to be reasonably comfortable against this profile.

If your stock's cheek piece is too wide, it will always force your head laterally away from the exit pupil regardless of the height setting. This in turn forces excessive head rollover (when we would like to have that as close to zero as possible).

So my thinking is that the user can always add more width with the usual grunt materials but it is usually damned hard to make the width less than delivered.

Here is a cross section with your widths at different locations working.

View attachment 7742791


.

I have pretty high cheekbones and typically resultant issues getting everything to fit without slamming the scope into the barrel… if you need a mechanical engineer to shake this chassis down I volunteer as tribute!

 

[Terry Cross]

Question about the arca. How long is it and would it be remotely close to lining up with an aftermarket arca if it were to be added to the handguard? I know they are all different but if it's close it'll at least look clean.

Edit: any idea when a price is going to be announced?

AFTERMARKET ARCA:
The location of the short integral ARCA section proximate to the front of the mag well cannot be raised any higher due to keeping structural integrity around the recoil lug suite.

The bottom of the existing forend is as close to the bore axis as I could get it and extends as far as I dared back toward the receiver with the same engineering limitation stated above.

So the only way I could get an aftermarket ARCA rail to "co-witness" with the short integral section would be to drop the forend bottom further away from the bore axis and I was not going to do that. This is one of those conscious decisions I made where I chose a preferred reaction of the gun during recoil over a "clean" look in this one area.

I may have some other methods of attack come into play with the ARCA execution on the Competition version.

There is quite lot of this chassis that is far more "clean" than most. I will be counting on the tradeoffs being acceptable.


PRICING:
The various iterations of the Zealot were not designed nor intended to compete against the Bravo, Envy, MagPul, X-ray price range.

It is made to hold its own against the Cadex, Acc Intl. and other premium chassis recently introduced. It brings things to the table that I thought were still missing or poorly executed in the market, but that is just my personal opinion.

Hopefully getting my final $ numbers from the anodizer tomorrow. They have been deciding best way to prep, rack and run.
I may be able to get pricing announced in the next week.
7075-T6 prices are literally going up every F'ing week due to shortages of magnesium, silicon and copper components of the alloy. I'm trying to hold fast to the material choices I made for this project.

We shall see.

Thank you for your interest.

./

 

[_Windrider_]

AFTERMARKET ARCA:
The location of the short integral ARCA section proximate to the front of the mag well cannot be raised any higher due to keeping structural integrity around the recoil lug suite.

The bottom of the existing forend is as close to the bore axis as I could get it and extends as far as I dared back toward the receiver with the same engineering limitation stated above.

So the only way I could get an aftermarket ARCA rail to "co-witness" with the short integral section would be to drop the forend bottom further away from the bore axis and I was not going to do that. This is one of those conscious decisions I made where I chose a preferred reaction of the gun during recoil over a "clean" look in this one area.

I may have some other methods of attack come into play with the ARCA execution on the Competition version.

There is quite lot of this chassis that is far more "clean" than most. I will be counting on the tradeoffs being acceptable.


PRICING:
The various iterations of the Zealot were not designed nor intended to compete against the Bravo, Envy, MagPul, X-ray price range.

It is made to hold its own against the Cadex, Acc Intl. and other premium chassis recently introduced. It brings things to the table that I thought were still missing or poorly executed in the market, but that is just my personal opinion.

Hopefully getting my final $ numbers from the anodizer tomorrow. They have been deciding best way to prep, rack and run.
I may be able to get pricing announced in the next week.
7075-T6 prices are literally going up every F'ing week due to shortages of magnesium, silicon and copper components of the alloy. I'm trying to hold fast to the material choices I made for this project.

We shall see.

Thank you for your interest.

./

between China buying the worlds mineral rights and joe biden this shit is only getting worse

 

[Milf Dots]

between China buying the worlds mineral rights and joe biden this shit is only getting worse

I agree in full.
Yet we still have Americans who don't understand the huge negative effect of buying full on commie electro optics like holoson and lights like olite. It blows my mind.

 

[Terry Cross]

I have pretty high cheekbones and typically resultant issues getting everything to fit without slamming the scope into the barrel… if you need a mechanical engineer to shake this chassis down I volunteer as tribute!

I can tell you that this chassis places the rifle very low in the stock line.

Using rings/mounts that work on your M40/M24/McM-A5, etc will likely place your face too high above the exit pupil even with the Zealot cheek piece all the way down. (on most faces)

The result is the necessity of higher scope rings than you might use on your hunting rifles or some legacy sniper rifles.

Standard approach toward scope mounting will be along the same lines as users of the A.I. and Cadex stocks but for slightly different reasons.
Judging by the number of high mounted scopes already being used on huge numbers of rifles out there today, I do not think the migration to higher scope mounts will be an issue.

This style mounting also puts the scope within a more preferable alignment envelope for clip-on NV/Thermal.

./

 

[gnochi]

I can tell you that this chassis places the rifle very low in the stock line.

Using rings/mounts that work on your M40/M24/McM-A5, etc will likely place your face too high above the exit pupil even with the Zealot cheek piece all the way down. (on most faces)

The result is the necessity of higher scope rings than you might use on your hunting rifles or some legacy sniper rifles.

Standard approach toward scope mounting will be along the same lines as users of the A.I. and Cadex stocks but for slightly different reasons.
Judging by the number of high mounted scopes already being used on huge numbers of rifles out there today, I do not think the migration to higher scope mounts will be an issue.

This style mounting also puts the scope within a more preferable alignment envelope for clip-on NV/Thermal.

./

The issue I typically have with high scope rings is that the adjustable cheek doesn’t go high enough to be comfortable or solid. Everything you said sounds *amazing* to me - if you’re designing for high rings / typical person, normal rings / me might work.

 

[Gil P.]

Thank you.

My personal opinion is that almost all glass, CF and composite stocks out there have cheek pieces that are far too large and have too much mass.
The Gen II mold of the SENTINEL reflects my thinking on this in that the CP is much smaller and shaped to help get most eyes into the scope's exit pupil without requiring a lot of head roll-over.

I kept the cheek piece of the Zealot as narrow as possible and still function the way I needed (back of bolt shroud passing under the front of CP on the magnum version as well as nesting down low over the top of the buttstock frame when all the way down.

After 3D printing a number of cross section shapes for the CP, I kept circling back to something close to the Gen II SENTINEL CP. Most face and cheek structures seem to be reasonably comfortable against this profile.

If your stock's cheek piece is too wide, it will always force your head laterally away from the exit pupil regardless of the height setting. This in turn forces excessive head rollover (when we would like to have that as close to zero as possible).

So my thinking is that the user can always add more width with the usual grunt materials but it is usually damned hard to make the width less than delivered.

Here is a cross section with your widths at different locations working.

View attachment 7742791


.

Very true. I have an AXSR chassis with a cheek piece that is way too wide. I have to roll my head over an uncomfortable amount even with the cp adjusted all the way to the right. I'm going to ask around to see if it's possible to have a slimmer one made.

I need to correct my previous post. I meant to say most stock mfgs place the cp too close to the bolt and not far enough rearward. This leaves your face somewhat hanging off the back of the cp without much support.. The Sentinels cp is better because it is placed farther rearward and you can remove the bolt without removing the cp.


Which of your two stocks would you recommend to a competitor who wants a balanced rifle and is not looking to add a lot of weights?

I'm thinking of getting another Sentinel with a heavy fill or waiting for the competition version of the Zealot. I know the Sentinel will balance well with heavy barrel, but I think you mentioned earlier that the LE Zealot is very front heavy. The comp version would solve that problem with weights in the butt.

Are you planning on putting an integral arca rail in the comp Zealot? I personally think it's a bad idea because the bottom half of the rail is a solid piece with the rest of the chassis and can't be removed and replaced when the rail is damaged. I don't want to get screwed if it does get damaged and have to buy an aftermarket arca rail regardless.

Have you asked competitors what they think about an integral arca in your chassis configuration? I'd prefer mounting an aftermarket arca on the m lok. I don't see how it could hurt the performance, other than mounting accessories *slightly* farther from the barrel.

 

[Jackomason]

Well I'll be watching closely to see if an origin will fit. The bolt handle is swept but I'm not sure if there are a lot of real world problems found with it. I may just have to pony up and be the guinea pig.

 

[Short-bus]

Yeah but his lead times are forever right now

My lead times are dropping like Biden's approval ratings. I'm catching up fast because it's hunting season.

Branden

 

[Duc]

Way to go "Let's go Branden"!!

 

[Kane0519]

That’s a sharp looking chassis & I love the thought & detail Terry put into it.

 

[Terry Cross]

Terry, I love the cheekpiece hardware, it looks beefy and secure- like it won't move under heavy use... Is that Loggerhead based?

Many cheekpieces on stocks and chassis only have one vertical support, and/or friction only for locking in the adjustment, and they just look cheesy.

Thank you.

The cheekpiece as well as the length of pull adjustments are not LoggerHead based. Not even close.
Both use a totally new Z-LatchTM that I designed about 10yrs ago but was never able to find time and funds to execute it into the chassis project until now.

The system is totally tool-less.
There are zero knobs or throw levers hanging out.
There are no threads in the Z-Latch systems, so we don't have to worry about them eating themselves or jamming up when grit and sand enter.
There are no additional set-screws needed to keep rattle out or to keep the adjustments from slipping.
There are no protrusions on the latches that could accidently release or move when moving with the rifle or when in shooting positions.
The user can actually adjust Cheek Rest height and/or LOP while in shooting position without getting out of the scope.
The Z-Latch on the LOP columns can handle 3 x the shear load of a 16# pound rifle dropping 4.5 feet butt plate first (with recoil pad removed) on concrete.

As far as I know, there are no latch/lock systems out there like this.
It was a total gamble to see if the idea would stand on its own in the real world. So far, I am super pleased, especially with things working so well right out of the gate with Ver. 1.0.

There were many new ideas on this chassis that could fail to function once built so to see them succeed has been a proud parent moment.

T.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

Well I'll be watching closely to see if an origin will fit. The bolt handle is swept but I'm not sure if there are a lot of real world problems found with it. I may just have to pony up and be the guinea pig.

I have not specifically tried an Origin in this chassis.
The Zealot bolt handle cut is made to work with highly swept bolt handles as well as straight 90 degree iterations out there.

The balance of the Origin is straight cheesecake and I do not see any potential issues.

.

 

[Jackomason]

OK, last question. I think....

With the low center of gravity. Does the zealot behave like the new AI AT-X? I've only held the AT-X, but the people who have used them all seem to share the same sentiment. If this is all CG related then I'd like to hear more about how the Zealot handles.

I'm really hoping to be on the pre-order list for this one. I've been saving for a chassis for a while and just couldn't decide what I wanted. This seems like the perfect blend between the AT-X and an MDT ESS.

 

[J-Ham]

Even though I hate it (the AT-X I mean), I think part of the reason you hear about that noticeably different recoil impulse has to do with the design of the buttstock & how it transfers that energy low on your shoulder (along with the low bore axis obviously).