Zeiss LRP S3 Glass SHOWDOWN vs MK5, Razor G2, Kahles, ZCO

[FuhQ]

I would counter that I only post pictures that DO represent what the eye sees, and let others form their opinions. Of course a photo isn't capturing mirage, etc but the last few percent of any hobby costs substantially extra.

There is no "way better" than the S3, Kahles, etc. There is only slightly better, and at certain aspects, you're already in the big leagues when spending 2k+

All these folks on this forum butthurt about Kahles these days...I just don't get it. In your pics the K525i is hanging in there at 20x better than all the rest, even around the edges. Granted, at the other magnifications, the ZCO was the best, but the K525i and S3 wasn't that far off. The MK5 on the other-hand...Well...The pictures spoke for themselves. I wouldn't waste my money on a Leupy.

 

[4O6shootist]

All these folks on this forum butthurt about Kahles these days...I just don't get it. In your pics the K525i is hanging in there at 20x better than all the rest, even around the edges. Granted, at the other magnifications, the ZCO was the best, but the K525i and S3 wasn't that far off. The MK5 on the other-hand...Well...The pictures spoke for themselves. I wouldn't waste my money on a Leupy.

Kahles should come out with a 7-35 dlr with LSW and some upgraded high end glass. That's a Kahles I'd try. I just haven't found any difference in the few gen3 K624i I have and a k525i to make me feel like I need to swap em. I love everything about kahles scopes, but their glass is so so. At least all the k624, k525i, and k318 I been around. They just don't have anything that I see that's causes that "ooo damn that's nice" feeling.

 

[Matt ironwood]

Obviously the S3 is all the buzz. I was sent one to run through its paces, and think this thing is a really nice value with an absolutely absurd amount of elevation. They advertise 46mils or something, mine was well over 50 and tracked very well across the entire range. The glass is competitive with others as well.

Here are some comparison shots. Before the photo snobs pick everything apart, these were locked settings with a newer iphone, and track well with my (and another observer's) personal observations. The biggest gripe about these photos is that the S3 has a red coating on the glass that you don't see at all when actually using the optic, but a camera grabs it. So, as impossible as it may be, pretend that the red reflection doesn't exist.

Eyebox on the S3 is not as friendly as the S5, it is more touchy and "on/off" rather than being able to shift with a black border on one side, etc. It isn't crazy tight by any means, but the S5 is a kickass scope IMO and bats with the ZCO. Some may not like the huge turrets, but that's a conversation for another day.

Turrets feel fine, not super audible, not super mushy, not insanely crisp. I like how the windage knob is offset a bit for better viewing behind the scope. Reticle is satisfactory for my uses, weight feels reasonable, overall build is stout feeling.

Without further conversation, the unedited photos incoming. It's going to take multiple comments for all these, give me a few minutes before any responses so things can go right in order!



View attachment 7951988View attachment 7951989View attachment 7951990

Excellent review. I wonder if u can get the red out of pics via editing photos? Anyways.

I could be wrong, but I remember going down the rabbit hole of optics right before I bought my first Schmidt bender zenith.

And I remember to this day, certain company’s, added a red tint in their coatings, as subconsciously our eyes find it most appealing.

There’s a small chance my memory is incorrect. But I doubt it. I wonder if someone still knowledgeable could concur on this.

 

[FuhQ]

Kahles should come out with a 7-35 dlr with LSW and some upgraded high end glass. That's a Kahles I'd try. I just haven't found any difference in the few gen3 K624i I have and a k525i to make me feel like I need to swap em. I love everything about kahles scopes, but their glass is so so. At least all the k624, k525i, and k318 I been around. They just don't have anything that I see that's causes that "ooo damn that's nice" feeling.

Well, when you compare $3k to a $5,500 scope, then I'd sure hope the $5,500 scope had better glass. If not, you're getting fucked-over just to buy a name brand.

My 2 Gen3 K624i's and K318i, and Helia KX all have phenomenal glass.

 

[4O6shootist]

Well, when you compare $3k to a $5,500 scope, then I'd sure hope the $5,500 scope had better glass. If not, you're getting fucked-over just to buy a name brand.

My 2 Gen3 K624i's and K318i, and Helia KX all have phenomenal glass.

My zco was $3700, a dlr 525i is same price range, I personally feel Kahles is priced a bit high for what they are. But that's me. I have a friend who had 4 k525i, now he has replaced most with zco, and he feels he's made a move up in quality, he's been a Kahles fan for a LONG time.

 

[banks2020]

Just for you 406....

Zero Compromise Optic 4-20x50 and 5-27x56 - Optics Trade Blog

Introduction of Zero Compromise Optic Zero Compromise Optic had a booth at Shot Show for the second time already, and they introduced 2 very impressive rifle scopes last year (2018). Until now, these rifle scopes have not been available, but this year they announced that the production has...

www.optics-trade.eu

Jeff from zco been in optics industry for a very long time.

Has he been making glass a very long time?

 

[4O6shootist]

Just for you 406....

Zero Compromise Optic 4-20x50 and 5-27x56 - Optics Trade Blog

Introduction of Zero Compromise Optic Zero Compromise Optic had a booth at Shot Show for the second time already, and they introduced 2 very impressive rifle scopes last year (2018). Until now, these rifle scopes have not been available, but this year they announced that the production has...

www.optics-trade.eu

Has he been making glass a very long time?

Is schott zeiss? Negative........schott makes many grades of glass, used by many optics manufacturers.

Jeff Huber came from Nightforce, other guys on the team are from Kahles/Swaro, I'm sure others came from other quality companies as he did the best he could to assemble a star cast.

 

[banks2020]

Zeiss is selling its Schott glass to other companies for their top shelf optics. This speaks volumes about their products in my opinion. Although I dont think that Zeiss is selling a higher quality glass to another scope manufacturer. or maybe they do...

 

[banks2020]

Is schott zeiss? Negative........schott makes many grades of glass, used by many optics manufacturers.

Jeff Huber came from Nightforce, other guys on the team are from Kahles/Swaro, I'm sure others came from other quality companies as he did the best he could to assemble a star cast.

Actually Schott IS owned by Ziess....

 

[FuhQ]

My zco was $3700, a dlr 525i is same price range, I personally feel Kahles is priced a bit high for what they are. But that's me. I have a friend who had 4 k525i, now he has replaced most with zco, and he feels he's made a move up in quality, he's been a Kahles fan for a LONG time.

He can feel however he wants. That’s part of having opinions…We don’t all have to agree. But some folks get pissy as hell when you disagree with them…Lots of folks on here, especially.

I’ve been shooting Kahles for over 15 years. Never once had any issues. Can’t say the same about many other big name brand optics I’ve personally owned, or ones I used to sell at the gun store.

 

[banks2020]

He can feel however he wants. That’s part of having opinions…We don’t all have to agree. But some folks get pissy as hell when you disagree with them…Lots of folks on here, especially.

I’ve been shooting Kahles for over 15 years. Never once had any issues. Can’t say the same about many other big name brand optics I’ve personally owned, or ones I used to sell at the gun store.

True, I just wanted to understand where the glass was coming from that was getting so many props... its clearly bad ass! As far as anyone getting their nipple twisted about finding where the almight ZCO was getting their glass.....i couldnt gaf less

 

[4O6shootist]

Zeiss is selling its Schott glass to other companies for their top shelf optics. This speaks volumes about their products in my opinion. Although I dont think that Zeiss is selling a higher quality glass to another scope manufacturer. or maybe they do...

Zeiss and Schott are under the same foundation(2 seperate companies still), kinda like swaro/kahles. Still swaro doesn't share their glass with Kahles. Why would Schott sell their (arguably)best glass to a competitor? Maybe Zeiss has no say who Schott makes business deals with. I don't know how this works, but I don't see why company A would sell their glass to comperator B who makes a commonly perceived better product. Now that the S5/S3 tactical lines are out, they'd have even more reason to take that away from the competition. Idk what we are debating, the S3 is a good scope, the k525i is a good scope. Some think they're as good as a ZCO. I do not, and will never feel that way. But we all can form and hold our own opinions on our findings. Don't base your findings upon someone's pictures or words tho, get the scopes out yourself and check em, all of our eyes are different.

 

[FuhQ]

Zeiss and Schott are under the same foundation(2 seperate companies still), kinda like swaro/kahles. Still swaro doesn't share their glass with Kahles. Why would Schott sell their (arguably)best glass to a competitor? Maybe Zeiss has no say who Schott makes business deals with. I don't know how this works, but I don't see why company A would sell their glass to comperator B who makes a commonly perceived better product. Now that the S5/S3 tactical lines are out, they'd have even more reason to take that away from the competition. Idk what we are debating, the S3 is a good scope, the k525i is a good scope. Some think they're as good as a ZCO. I do not, and will never feel that way. But we all can form and hold our own opinions on our findings. Don't base your findings upon someone's pictures or words tho, get the scopes out yourself and check em, all of our eyes are different.

That part says everything… “commonly perceived”. That doesn’t mean that it actually is better glass…Just better than most other options on the market. I’m not taking away from ZCO, they’re great scopes, I’m just saying the top-end of Zeiss is right up there, too. Have you ever looked through a Diavari or V6 or V8? The glass is absolutely stellar. And I would put clarity right up there with ZCO & TT.

I have considered a ZCO or TT as my next big optic purchase.

And yes, all of our eyes are different, and some folks might have vision so poor that they can’t distinguish an Arken from a ZCO when looking through them. In that instance, it wouldn’t matter if you stuck a Hensoldt in front of them, they still couldn’t tell you one was better than the other.

And I also think this is where half of these people comparing Arkens (and other budget scopes) to top-tier scopes might be missing the mark. While they are good scopes in their price range, they are nowhere near the same thing optically. And I think the other half of those folks might not have ever looked through a true alpha-tier optic before, so they honestly don’t know.

 

[banks2020]

He can feel however he wants. That’s part of having opinions…We don’t all have to agree. But some folks get pissy as hell when you disagree with them…Lots of folks on here, especially.

I’ve been shooting Kahles for over 15 years. Never once had any issues. Can’t say the same about many other big name brand optics I’ve personally owned, or ones I used to sell at the

That part says everything… “commonly perceived”. That doesn’t mean that it actually is better glass…Just better than most other options on the market. I’m not taking away from ZCO, they’re great scopes, I’m just saying the top-end of Zeiss is right up there, too. Have you ever looked through a Diavari or V6 or V8? The glass is absolutely stellar. And I would put clarity right up there with ZCO & TT.

I have considered a ZCO or TT as my next big optic purchase.

And yes, all of our eyes are different, and some folks might have vision so poor that they can’t distinguish an Arken from a ZCO when looking through them. In that instance, it wouldn’t matter if you stuck a Hensoldt in front of them, they still couldn’t tell you one was better than the other.

And I also think this is where half of these people comparing Arkens (and other budget scopes) to top-tier scopes might be missing the mark. While they are good scopes in their price range, they are nowhere near the same thing optically. And I think the other half of those folks might not have ever looked through a true alpha-tier optic before, so they honestly don’t know.

I agree.

That part says everything… “commonly perceived”. That doesn’t mean that it actually is better glass…Just better than most other options on the market. I’m not taking away from ZCO, they’re great scopes, I’m just saying the top-end of Zeiss is right up there, too. Have you ever looked through a Diavari or V6 or V8? The glass is absolutely stellar. And I would put clarity right up there with ZCO & TT.

I have considered a ZCO or TT as my next big optic purchase.

And yes, all of our eyes are different, and some folks might have vision so poor that they can’t distinguish an Arken from a ZCO when looking through them. In that instance, it wouldn’t matter if you stuck a Hensoldt in front of them, they still couldn’t tell you one was better than the other.

And I also think this is where half of these people comparing Arkens (and other budget scopes) to top-tier scopes might be missing the mark. While they are good scopes in their price range, they are nowhere near the same thing optically. And I think the other half of those folks might not have ever looked through a true alpha-tier optic before, so they honestly don’t know.

 

[stanley_white]

And yes, all of our eyes are different, and some folks might have vision so poor that they can’t distinguish an Arken from a ZCO when looking through them.

I feel seen.

Pun intended.

-Stan

 

[the_PJ]

Hello together,

I don't live far from Oberkochen, where Zeiss is located. This does not make me an expert, but here is my understanding:

The Zeiss foundation owns both Zeiss and Schott. They also hold the stock majority on Schott Pharma and Zeiss Meditec. However the links between the companys are not too closely tied together. Each and everyone is responsible for their P&L. With the east/west issue in Germany the history gets madly complicated as production sites and R&D were split into newly formed corporations and people working together were forced to cease contact. Company Jenoptic (Zeiss Jena) is the former east Germany Zeiss - they do radar controls etc.

The way a project at Zeiss works is that everything is researched and priced and then Schott is granted a final call if they want to do it (if they were not automatically selected). But this is why e.g. the Zeiss S3 is not produced in Germany and has Japanese Glass (mayble LOW bit I don't know) whereas the S5 is German made with German Schott Glas.
In the same liking Schott has the freedom to sell Glass to everyone now of course Russia is excluded). Arguably the best Glass is coming from them, e.g. James Webb Telescope. So I could imagine (!) that Kahles/Swarovski, former Docter Scopes, IOR (I know you hate these but I like my 4-28), S&B's, Steiner, Minox and whatnot are internally equipped with Schott Glas.

Please keep in mind, that
1) the lense coating changes the view completely and many companies who don't produce their own Glass do do their own coatings
2) there are many lenses within a scope and it can be, that a couple are with Glass from CompanyA and a couple are with Glass from CompanyB.

As Zeiss decided to move away from the defense sector Hensoldt took over the "military" line of scopes (manufacturer education by Zeiss but sold under different label...).

So many topics are intertwined and I hope everything above stated is correct.

Greetings from Germany

 

[the_PJ]

As Zeiss/Schott are foundations they give the earned money to projects of good cause.
So feel free to buy their products .

I neither work for Zeiss (got rejected lol) nor am I affiliated with them in any other way.