5.56 AR Only Loads
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I actually just loaded a ladder of 69’s in LC brass to test tomorrow with Tac, 24-25 grains at .02 increments- no compression. Sierra manual has max below that bit out of a 20” barrel - I’m guessing 24.6-25 will find the sweet spot out of a 16” - hopefully at least
That Ramshot TAC is a ball powder, and doesn't take up nearly as much room grain for grain of weight as Varget?
Hopefully it's an AT4, not an earlier version. The Lee PPM doesn't like ball powder of any flavor. DAMHIKT
My white oak barrel is the same way. Anything over 24.2 with 73-77gr it looks like a shotgun blast even though the brass isn’t smearing with LC. Luckily 24.0 is when I get 2700-2720 with 16 inch barrel. With the 73gr 24.2 gets me 2750. I’m using CCI 450’s with tac in LC brass and a 2.250 seating depth
No idea if I get a bug up my ass I'll chrono them most of the time I'm shooting steel and bowling pins out in the desert anyways
I just want to get this rifle shooting at least one good load so far the only other OK one was 3/4-1MOA
These were FC brass weight is about 93gr the bullets are 69gr RMRs 2.250" I bought a ton of when they were 10cents each
Also they shake fine, not compressed, brass looks fine
So plenty of room for a fine ball powder to flow up around the boat tail as the bullet goes into the case, rather than squish/compress like with a stick powder
Not sure what you think you're seeing from those pics. All I said is that he had *room*, and probably not compressed. And I still say that, looking at the pics you posted. Whether that charge is a good idea based on the *burn rate* is a different matter. Personally, I'd say 24.5 of TAC behind a 77 is a little too spicy for me - but then I did most of my learning with the S77MK behind a 20" AR Service Rifle barrel. Some of the loads that bolt-gunners use today would have blown the primers clean out of the cases in an AR back then.
My original point was that there likely still room in the case, whether the load was too hot or not was not something I ever addressed. The two are not necessarily linked. The old .260 Rem was a good example - you could load those to where the primer would come clean out of the pocket, and still have *grains* of volume left.
And as for what the pics show... I 'see' that the base of the boat tail would indeed extend down to below the powder fill line. And I can 'visualize' that said boat tail would displace some of that powder off to the sides, along the slope of the shoulder.
For further evidence, he (BCP, not me) says:
And as for what the pics show... I 'see' that the base of the boat tail would indeed extend down to below the powder fill line. And I can 'visualize' that said boat tail would displace some of that powder off to the sides, along the slope of the shoulder.
For further evidence, he (BCP, not me) says:
Yeah they go to 24.8 with a winchester case, I'm not really sure what this other guy is going on about tbh
So I chased my tail on the 69g smk and your targets are looking like my first attempts.
You didn't mention your coal or cbto on that load. If you run them at mag lenght you are probably in the lands .
My ar's don't like that.
I think using a set of heavy bags on a bench, getting a good squared up position and adjusting your point of aim at rest will improve your shooting over results with a sled.
There is not a lot of recol and the sled is a pita to drag around.
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When I started picking up components for reloading and before I got more experienced, I bought a ton of both 69 SMKs and 77 SMKs, thinking that I would load three loads for each of my gas guns based on distance (55,69 and 77), I also thought that 69's would be an easy load like the 77's...............
My experience though has been that the 69 SMK is a harder tip to load then the 77 for whatever reason, some of my gas guns just wont shoot it well no matter what I have tried, some will shoot it moderately well but no where near what I expected or want.
I have never tried the 69 RMR bullet or any other 69's to be honest, I am trying to shoot the ones I have left and I will never buy more, will stick with the 77 SMK.
Try 24.5- 25.0 Gr. N540 VV powder ,with either 69 Gr. or 77 Gr. pills and see what results You obtain .
I use NATO cases LC Norma and Lapua , you should get very favorable groups ,at least MOA or something is amiss , that barrel is severely fouled or not capable ?. I was using one of my 5.56X45 , a unencumbered PSA 20" ,so Not one of My Aero Precision platforms which I prefer . Powder evaluation to see what everybody likes .
The 6.5CM target shows differences of powder choices a little better . I generally shoot off a Bag or sand bags and use a dime to cover a group of shots . IF the dime covers #5 or more I'm happy .
Paper plate was done 29 years ago off the ground at a Sheriff's Dept. exhibition shoot ,where I demonstrated the proficiency of handloading out of a bone stock XM15 A2 20" Bushmaster . Winchester bulk 55 gr. bullets 25.5 BlC-2 powder . Vertical string Winchester white box crap . Got #15 under the dime at 200 Yd. using a Nikon Monarch 3 ,3X12X42 scope . Still have that setup and is one of the most accurate 5.56X45mm units I've ever owned . Go figure chrome lined bore no less
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Out with the 16" Ballistic Advantage stainless SPR
62gr Hornady FMJ w/ cannelure
Tac
Fed brass
CCI 41s
Shot with a 4x lpvo 2 moa center dot so happy with the bullet so far at 101y.
62gr Hornady FMJ w/ cannelure
Tac
Fed brass
CCI 41s
Shot with a 4x lpvo 2 moa center dot so happy with the bullet so far at 101y.
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Try 24.5gr TAC with the lighter bullets 55-62 someone suggested it to me and it shot well out of all my rifles with 55vmax and 62gr cannelure bullets (COAL = wherever cannelure was)
Lorenzo, those velocities are fast for a 16" barrel. Nay have to give TAC a try with Hornady 62g El VTs.
Brass looked good, primers were just barely starting to flatten at the top end. Based on the feel of the primer pockets of the Fed brass I am using, I could see 3-4 firings on it at least.
I have indeed which is why I am not settling on the higher ones. I just wanted to get a feel for the powder and find where the pressure starts.
Another trip out with the 16" ballistic advantage stainless SPR barrel, 1/8 midlength gas.
Gusty L-R 8 - 15 mph
4x optic with 2 moa center dot
101y 53 degrees F
Orange dots are 3"
Gonna play with seating depth on the 62 fmj on a calmer day, seems to shoot about the same no matter the powder charge. Could be the 4x optic with 2 moa dot too. Not the best for precision.
Gusty L-R 8 - 15 mph
4x optic with 2 moa center dot
101y 53 degrees F
Orange dots are 3"
Gonna play with seating depth on the 62 fmj on a calmer day, seems to shoot about the same no matter the powder charge. Could be the 4x optic with 2 moa dot too. Not the best for precision.
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Dot's suck for precision shot placement ,IMO . I've never liked them as they obscure the aim point . I prefer MilRad and nearer this type of reticle . It's far superior for grouping shots, rather than dots .
Agreed, this particular rifle has just had a cheap 1x4 on it as a place holder for awhile, I can actually get it done decently on steel but it's time for an upgrade to a 1x6 or 1x8 with a better reticle.
Brother do your self a super huge favor , Grab a 3-15X44 Vortex Venom FFP at a ridiculous cost . Sport Optics on sale with additional 13% off a $650.00 scope for a tad over $400.00 bucks . I normally pop either older Nikon's or New Meopta scopes on MY rigs .
Being mid 70's now eyes aren't what they once were ,so I need all the help I can muster . Thankfully I've still got an iron rock steady grip but eyeballs are shady . Didn't wear any specs other than shades all my life , until I was like early to mid 60's .
So NOT complaining just facing reality . Next year I'll have to wear glasses to get MY DL ,first time ever
How often and to what extent is everyone cleaning out carbon rings in their AR's barrel/throat? I found doing too much can cause short stroking/under pressure issues on min and max 5.56 loads (failure to eject, failure to lock back) causing me to re-tune the gun via tweaking buffer weights (from H2 down to all steel weights). I'd rather whack the ring down after each use and have it tuned to run under any pressure vs only running on spicy loads/built up carbon ring etc..
I won't clean carbon rings or BCG until perhaps 500 rounds have run down range . I spray mine let it set while dissembling BGC ,when I spray dissembled BCG ,I then take a nylon brush ream the chamber . After semi wiping it out I'll run bore solvent in it and down the bore. Followed by #2 wet patches and two dry . Respray all moving parts with Sprayon LU708 for lube, then Good to go for as long as needed .
After you’re done with the above cleaning routine do you notice a drop in pressure/velocity during the first few rounds fired and have to foul the barrel up a bit before you see your speeds pick back up?
After a complete cleaning , I always run a fouling shot when starting next shooting session . So can't say positively one way or another ,as I never measure foulers . Those may be premium Re-loads or surplus crap ,whatever I have r left over . When I start modified ladders I don't notice any significant pressure drops AKA Fps loss .
I stopped doing bench rest type shooting years ago and as a result personally have more fun . Off hand , Prone or Sand bagging it .
Having the Great fortune of hunting in Africa back in the 70's ,I learned something ; There's NO benches or sand bags .
Now days I'll load particular powders with various bullet types and weights , then run modified ladders with LR or Oehler . When I'm satisfied with groupings ( generally 3 groups of # 5 shots ,#16 shots including 1 fouler aimed off intended POA ) I then further modify OAL and when good . I write those recipes down in MY shooting book . Certain loads 300 yd. others 600 yd. and I don't go past 800 yd. anymore with 5.56X45mm and over 77 gr. . IMO that's about maximum effective range and weight of the cartridge .
I'll step up to one of My larger calibers ,such as 6.5CM ,7.62X51, 7 Rem Mag or real long range .338 Lapua Magnum . Simply depends upon type of shooting I'm doing . I still enjoy shooting a few of My M1 Garands but limit their range 600 Yd. or less with MY eyeballs and peep sights it's a stretch
After getting my short stroking issue sorted out I went to the range today to test some accuracy loads with 77gr Berger OTM’s with N140, LC 5.56 brass (mix yrs), and fed 205 primers @2.260”
Upper: 14.5” super duty mid length
Temp: 40 deg F
I need to further explore 23.1 to 24.1 but looking good!
Upper: 14.5” super duty mid length
Temp: 40 deg F
I need to further explore 23.1 to 24.1 but looking good!
Ive been trying to find some n140 at one of my 3 possible local shops but no luck so far. One has alot of VV powders but no 140.
Ive used N530 for about 5 years and finally got down to the last pound. Works well with 62gr bullets. Its very clean burning and produces screaming velocities and is accurate. I picked up a pound of N540 to try with heavier bullets but still want to try N140 with some berger 77s to shoot in my Mk12.
Ive used N530 for about 5 years and finally got down to the last pound. Works well with 62gr bullets. Its very clean burning and produces screaming velocities and is accurate. I picked up a pound of N540 to try with heavier bullets but still want to try N140 with some berger 77s to shoot in my Mk12.
If you have some other things to get like primers etc and can mitigate the cost of the hazmat fee here’s a good list of online stores you can grab some N140 from:
VV N140 ($45/pound)
Right now Midsouth has a coupon code for free hazmat on orders $150+
If you look upstream I had excellent results with N140 and 77 bergers at mag length. Velocity was a little weak but I was going for accuracy. If I can get .7 moa and mean radius below .25 moa out of a factory gas gun/upper Im a very happy camper
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Try Bruno shooter Supply in AZ. Lester generally has the most consistent lower pricing around . Buy enough free shipping .
https://www.brunoshooters.com/shop/...type:12308;pa_brands:12337;product_cat:10468/
So I finally got to try out my "final" ladder tests on the 69g Sierra bullets.
50 yard test due to conditions and range needing moved due to floods messing it up. I do most preliminary testing at 50 to save driving time untill I get things worked out. Our family range is an hour and ten minutes at 75 mph, the short range is 10 minutes at 30 mph.
20 inch upper sorted range brass.
Shanked that low one but not by much on the 23.3 load of tac.
Left the 23.4 load on there to show the vertical stringing with 0.1g more powder.
A little horizontal stringing on the 23.6g tac but they touch so I think it will " tune " out ok.
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Yes, this is the second attempt with the 69g projectiles in general.
First time I was in the lands.
Data from a couple reliable sources got me there.
Found my lands and started over.
I may be still a little closer than I prefer but I had read that the 69's like a small jump. At about 0.006 but that gives only one direction to go. Lol
If I'm lucky I can get those groups a little rounder but at least I won't be wasting gas and travel on something like my last attempts.
That 50 yard range saves me so much money.
First time I was in the lands.
Data from a couple reliable sources got me there.
Found my lands and started over.
I may be still a little closer than I prefer but I had read that the 69's like a small jump. At about 0.006 but that gives only one direction to go. Lol
If I'm lucky I can get those groups a little rounder but at least I won't be wasting gas and travel on something like my last attempts.
That 50 yard range saves me so much money.
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Every gun is different some like less jump others prefer more space . As a general rule for MYSELF ,I start at 0.020" and never move closer than 0.008" with a gas gun . Especially in upper max load areas , as BAD things can happen if one jumps into the lands .
With bolt guns different animal and have popped em as close as 0.002" . Headspace aka shoulder bump 0.004" MINIMUM in a gas gun and again 0.002" in a bolt weapon ( unless hunting then it's 0.004" ) . MY reasoning is pretty simple , I've got #8 fingers #2 thumbs #2 eyeballs and #2 ears all original equipment and I sincerely hope to check up with same
I've witnessed up close and personal aside from VN ,two deaths relating to firearms reloading errors and it's never pretty !. Especially when a fellow shooter dies from the operators faulty load . It's not always the shooter in the real world ,which pays the ultimate price .
These photos are Not directed at anyone of you ,it's simply a reminder we all need to be really careful reloading .
This pistol I do know what actually happened and it wasn't an overload but rather an underload of wrong powder .
Also known as a flash over detonation and exploded ripping the cylinder top half off ,as well as exposing powder within ripped cases which burned . The far right case's bullet was on the shooting bench ,the case's bullet closest ,obviously never ignited
I personally have NO idea as to what went wrong with this rifle but serves as a reminder too us all be real careful .
My mistake was not questioning / verifying manufacturers data. A couple of the major players we all use.
I was using a 68g bullet and it could be loaded to 2.25 in my "standard" wylde chambers.
Didn't like them and changed to the 69g and the loads showed mag length coal on the bullet site and powder # 1 site.
I figured them to be gtg with that data. Nope the distance for the ogive in relation to the tip of the bullet moved forward 0.040 thousands. Not far enough in to notice while slingshoting a carrier into battery.
I only load 5 shots per 0.3g increments and as a general rule don't have to stop and unload on days I shoot at a membership range during " grampa hours" no stupid around at those times mostly.
So the loads didn't work out and showed minor overpresure signs?
Hell I changed to powder #2.
Powder #2 from the same company had data using a shorter oal ? I dug out my tools and measured lands to ogive and sure enough there was a discrepancy.
Sadly the mfg fluffed me off when I contacted them and also went further than that so F them.
I was using a 68g bullet and it could be loaded to 2.25 in my "standard" wylde chambers.
Didn't like them and changed to the 69g and the loads showed mag length coal on the bullet site and powder # 1 site.
I figured them to be gtg with that data. Nope the distance for the ogive in relation to the tip of the bullet moved forward 0.040 thousands. Not far enough in to notice while slingshoting a carrier into battery.
I only load 5 shots per 0.3g increments and as a general rule don't have to stop and unload on days I shoot at a membership range during " grampa hours" no stupid around at those times mostly.
So the loads didn't work out and showed minor overpresure signs?
Hell I changed to powder #2.
Powder #2 from the same company had data using a shorter oal ? I dug out my tools and measured lands to ogive and sure enough there was a discrepancy.
Sadly the mfg fluffed me off when I contacted them and also went further than that so F them.
