Took out a random load that I had loaded up a while ago for some shooting.
This is what I had:
- Berger 230 hybrids @ ~0.015" off the lands
- 85.6 grains Retumbo
- CCI 250 Magnum primers
- Norma brass
Over 5 shots this load had an ES of 10 fps and an SD of 4.5. Average muzzle velocity of 2961 fps. This load is close to pressure, and doesn't like to be shot in temps over 100°. Worked okay in 95° today though.
I also did velocity testing with some flatline 198 projectiles and retumbo, but couldn't get the bullet going fast enough with Retumbo. With 87.1 grains, the projectile is only going 3065 fps. No pressure signs, but I don't think Retumbo is going to get me to where I want to be with it. My goal is to get it going 3200+ fps (29" barrel). I need to start looking at different powders to get me there.
This is what I had:
- Berger 230 hybrids @ ~0.015" off the lands
- 85.6 grains Retumbo
- CCI 250 Magnum primers
- Norma brass
Over 5 shots this load had an ES of 10 fps and an SD of 4.5. Average muzzle velocity of 2961 fps. This load is close to pressure, and doesn't like to be shot in temps over 100°. Worked okay in 95° today though.
I also did velocity testing with some flatline 198 projectiles and retumbo, but couldn't get the bullet going fast enough with Retumbo. With 87.1 grains, the projectile is only going 3065 fps. No pressure signs, but I don't think Retumbo is going to get me to where I want to be with it. My goal is to get it going 3200+ fps (29" barrel). I need to start looking at different powders to get me there.
RL26 is your friend with flatlines and 300 Norma. 84 grains loaded to 3.765 OAL jumping a mile ~3150 from 28”. I made it up over 85 but it didn’t shoot as well. Love their ballistics but hate trying to spot them.
Retumbo is not even a decent choice with the Flatlines. N570 is really good according to Warner but about impossible to find. N570 has a 100% fill, only 2 FPS slower than RL26, and keeps max pressure low.
RL26 will get you a little more velocity but only a 90% fill so that may give you some problems.
RL25 might be the ideal choice as it is a 98% fill and only loses a couple FPS compared to RL26 and is a lot easier to find than N570.
Check out these charts from the Warner website for a 300 NM with 198gr Flatlines and a 28" barrel.
RL26 will get you a little more velocity but only a 90% fill so that may give you some problems.
RL25 might be the ideal choice as it is a 98% fill and only loses a couple FPS compared to RL26 and is a lot easier to find than N570.
Check out these charts from the Warner website for a 300 NM with 198gr Flatlines and a 28" barrel.
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Thanks guys! I might just wait until some N570 comes along to test with. Got plenty of 230 Bergers to shoot up until then.
Don't hold your breath on the N570. Everyone is out and Powder Valley hasn't had a shipment in over a year.
I tracked down some N570 but if I had it to do over again RL25 would be the choice for me.
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To all the guys running RL33, RL26 or any other RL powders. My questions is... Are you seeing carbon rings developing quickly or stability issues? A buddy is running RL33 in a 28 Nosler with great velocity and accuracy, but getting bad carbon rings forming in the barrel. Another friend was running RL26 in a 260 AI, same thing, great velocity and accuracy... but found it to be super unstable. Very bad pressure spikes over 80 degrees. Just like to see what others are seeing with RL powders. Very interested in using it in my 300 Norma if its stable and not super dirty. Thanks for any input
I shoot RL33 in my 300NM. I clean every 40-60 rds. No problems at all over several hundred rounds.
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What about temp stability? I've heard both, that it is and that it isn't stable? I'm just used to H1000 and Retumbo and don't want to change unless RL33 is as stable...
From a guy I been shooting with, he says it's not very temp stable and he says he has to clean about every 30 rounds in his nosler to prevent a carbon ring building up. I have no experience with it though but having to clean that often is a no go for me.
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Agreed, cleaning that often is a deal breaker for sure. I know Retumbo and H1000 don't have the velocity of RL33, but I think that trade off is worth the stability of Retumbo or H1000
It's not super temp stable but it is fairly predictable. On average, I have found that it changes .75 fps with every change in degree. If you can find a good accuracy and velocity load with H1000 or Retumbo I'd certainly stick with one of those two powders.
Are you having to clean to keep up accuracy and avoid a carbon ring? I just bought 3# of 33 to work up but I am def not into cleaning every 30 rounds!
As you know, these magnums are burning a metric ton of powder with every shot. RE33 isn't the cleanest powder to begin with (most double base powders are dirtier, N570 being terribly dirty) so to stay on the safe side I clean my rifles more often. I'd rather do preventative cleaning more often than spend half a day scrubbing out a carbon ring. That's just my opinion though.
If you don't like cleaning - and I don't blame you - I'd stick with H1000, Retumbo or something similar. Everything is a trade-off: single base = lower velocity but cleaner. Double base = higher velocity but dirtier.
I got you. What made you decide on 30 rounds? Have you pushed past that and seen accuracy fall or a ring start to form? I clean my 6.5 about every 200 rounds. I know I will have to clean the Norma more than that but man, if it is 30 with 33 I'll prob only use it when I need the extra velocity at longer ranges.
I try to clean every 40-60 rds and I never noticed a drop off in accuracy. No matter how close to cleaning the rifles were, I've shot several 1" 3-shot groups at 400y (as far as I can get out when the crops are in). My wife - who rarely shoots - put one of those groups together!
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I don't clean until I see accuracy fall off. Which is to be determined, new barrel and I have about 350 rounds through the pipe... Still shoots .3 groups at 100 and shot a 4.5 in horizontal by 1.25 vertical group at 825 yesterday... Wind was 5-15 mph, 85.7 grs Retumbo, magnetospeed 2982 average
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Well mine is together and ready to roll. Should have some time to warm it up this week.
Doing load work up this evening with the new 300NM Moon built me. Bought 100 pcs of Peterson brass to test it out. All I can say is... DANG. This is the answer I've been waiting for! Consistent, high quality, and super tough. I wore my hand out priming them!
Here is a 5-shot group shot at 100y. 83gr of N570 pushing a 230 hybrid at a mild 2915fps. COAL: 3.600.
10.20.18 UPDATE: My barrel has sped up since this post and the same 83gr load is now producing 2970fps in virgin Peterson brass.
Here is a 5-shot group shot at 100y. 83gr of N570 pushing a 230 hybrid at a mild 2915fps. COAL: 3.600.
10.20.18 UPDATE: My barrel has sped up since this post and the same 83gr load is now producing 2970fps in virgin Peterson brass.
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Finally shot my 300 Norma barrel yesterday. Was running 198 flatlines, Peterson brass, RL 33, Federal match mag primers. Only worked up to 90 grains, but was seeing 3000 FPS and it was 60 degrees yesterday. I’ve got 230 grain SMKs. I’m going to run those next. Going to stick with rl 33 for now. I run rl 22 in my 280 ackley and love it. Allianz powders seem to work really well. Lack of temp stability does suck a bit, but I can manage it.
I picked up 100x Peterson brass as well and those primer pockets are super tight. Brings a new meaning to virgin brass...
My 300 norma is on a mausingfield action, 30 inch bartlein heavy varmint barrel. Lri did the work and I sent the the cip length magazine and some peterson brass, and they had the 230 bergers on hand. They set the free bore to take advantage of the cip length. Any way this thing has 150 rounds through it now and I was running reloader 33. It shot every different load really well, this thing is literally a one hole gun. I found 93 grains of reloader 33 after about 100 rounds is giving me one hole 5 shot group, sd of 5 and 3112 average mv. The problem is with the re 33, after about 30 rounds it won't chamber the rounds. Clean it and it will, but damn that is some dirty powder. Ime going to turn the necks down, they are 16 thou on the peterson brass. So I put together some loads with retumbo, found a Excellent load at 86 grains, 15 though off lands, giving me 3042 mv, with sd of 4.5. All data collected with labradar. Shot 50 rounds through gun with retumbo, no problems with chambering rounds, cleaned it just to see and it is day and night from re 33. Ime sticking with retumbo. Its a shame re 33 is so dirty because it shoots so good. On a different note is anyone else turning the necks on peterson brass and if so what are you taking them down to? Thanks
Thanks. LRI did a great job fitting the barrel, it shoots lights out, could not be happier. It's a mausingfield action, 30 inch bartlein heavy varmint 9 twist 5r. I don't know the exact neck or freebore, but I will find out soon and post it here. Bix'n andy tacsport pro 2 stage trigger, area 419 sidewinder muzzle brake, mpa ba chassis with some extra weight added, spuhr mount, vortex razor hd gen 2, 30 moa on the rail, and a atlas 5h bipod. Have only got to shoot it to 800 yards, waiting for the soy beans to get cut so I can stretch it out. 800 is a joke with this gun, hoping to get to a mile right after deer season. I highly recommend LRI, I have several guns built by them, and they all shoot well under 1/4 inch, provided I do my part. They have fast turn around time, which is important to me because Ime not the most patient person.
Just got these from RYAN PIERCE 300nm improved 33° deviant DLC coated...
With 100 lapua brass..also got 100 ABM 230s lapua.
28" bartlein 9.25-8.50 gain twist
With piercision 5 port self time brake......
At the moment no ETA yet...looks like berger and ABM ammos got all the contracts and only them has access to used those lapua brass for their OWN ammos
Interesting. .300NM Lapua brass is available in Canada, and it's fairly cheap up there.
At europe and canada they're there..but ABM and berger both produced in the state( i think)
finally got mine shooting but seems slow for 210gr
27" hawk Hill 9t 210 JLK lbt peterson brass. Showing no pressure still. bolt lift is same as unfired, standard primers not flattened
95gr of rl33 3023
82gr of h1000 2915
85gr retumbo 2995
built this for a long range hunting gun primarily is the reason i was hoping for more speed. But proving dope yesterday i shot a 5 shot 6" group at 1090. good for the first 70rds down the pipe. Ill try to get a pic uploaded
27" hawk Hill 9t 210 JLK lbt peterson brass. Showing no pressure still. bolt lift is same as unfired, standard primers not flattened
95gr of rl33 3023
82gr of h1000 2915
85gr retumbo 2995
built this for a long range hunting gun primarily is the reason i was hoping for more speed. But proving dope yesterday i shot a 5 shot 6" group at 1090. good for the first 70rds down the pipe. Ill try to get a pic uploaded
In my experience, I've found Hawkhill barrels to be a bit slower than other brands. I have a new Hawkhill barrel sitting in my closet for my .300NM once my Benchmark, be interesting to see how those compare.
Your rifle barrel may still speed up. 70 rounds is not much. Expect the barrel to speed up a bit at the 100-150 round mark.
Finally got to take the .300 NM out to the range for the first load development session.
Barrel is a 28" Bartlein 5R with 1:8" twist, chambered by Short Action Customs. I didn't shoot groups on paper as my powder charges were varied and I only had 2 shots for most charges. Plus I was using a friend's LabRadar and couldn't get a decent position to shoot from while also getting the LabRadar to read, and the LR missed several shots over the day.
Load specs:
198 gr Warner Flatlines
Peterson Brass
Federal 215 Match primers
COAL touching lands 3.818"
Ogive length touching lands 2.802"
VV N570 88.2 gr to 92.2 gr (max is 92.1 gr according to the QuickLoad data on Warner's site at 100% fill, but doesn't quite max pressure out)
Velocities:
88.2 gr
XXXX FPS (did not read)
XXXX FPS (did not read)
3106 FPS
3100 FPS
3099 FPS
Average 3102 FPS
88.8 gr
3141 FPS
3139 FPS
Average 3140 FPS (+38 FPS)
89.4 gr
3179 FPS
3148 FPS
Average 3164 FPS (+24 FPS)
90.0 gr
3200 FPS
3187 FPS
Average 3194 FPS (+30 FPS)
90.4 gr
3221 FPS
3222 FPS
Average 3222 FPS (+28 FPS)
90.8 gr
3211 FPS
3234 FPS
Average 3222 (+0 FPS)
One flattened primer
91.2 gr
3261 FPS
XXXX FPS (did not read)
Average 3261 FPS (+39 FPS)
One flattened primer
Bolt lift was still light at this point but I didn't want to shoot the other charges I had due to the primers giving out. There was no cratering but 2 primers really flattened out (see center and 3 o'clock primers in the photo) and I didn't want one to pierce. Does anyone know if Federal 215 Ms are soft? Any suggestions for tougher primers?
One of the ejectors (DTA bolt has two) has a sharp spot on it and kept scraping the brass so I will polish it and keep an eye out for any other issues. Due to this, all the brass to include the lowest charges all look like they have ejector swipe, but there is no mark where the ejector was during firing, so no brass is flowing into the ejector hole(s) in the boltface.
The next step will be to refine and reassess powder charges between about 89.4 and 90.6 grs. The barrel should speed up a little as it breaks in and I will post when I have more results.
From left to right the picture of bullets is a .300 NM with 198 gr Flatline, a 7 WSM with 180 gr Berger VLD, and .308 Win with 175 gr SMK.
Barrel is a 28" Bartlein 5R with 1:8" twist, chambered by Short Action Customs. I didn't shoot groups on paper as my powder charges were varied and I only had 2 shots for most charges. Plus I was using a friend's LabRadar and couldn't get a decent position to shoot from while also getting the LabRadar to read, and the LR missed several shots over the day.
Load specs:
198 gr Warner Flatlines
Peterson Brass
Federal 215 Match primers
COAL touching lands 3.818"
Ogive length touching lands 2.802"
VV N570 88.2 gr to 92.2 gr (max is 92.1 gr according to the QuickLoad data on Warner's site at 100% fill, but doesn't quite max pressure out)
Velocities:
88.2 gr
XXXX FPS (did not read)
XXXX FPS (did not read)
3106 FPS
3100 FPS
3099 FPS
Average 3102 FPS
88.8 gr
3141 FPS
3139 FPS
Average 3140 FPS (+38 FPS)
89.4 gr
3179 FPS
3148 FPS
Average 3164 FPS (+24 FPS)
90.0 gr
3200 FPS
3187 FPS
Average 3194 FPS (+30 FPS)
90.4 gr
3221 FPS
3222 FPS
Average 3222 FPS (+28 FPS)
90.8 gr
3211 FPS
3234 FPS
Average 3222 (+0 FPS)
One flattened primer
91.2 gr
3261 FPS
XXXX FPS (did not read)
Average 3261 FPS (+39 FPS)
One flattened primer
Bolt lift was still light at this point but I didn't want to shoot the other charges I had due to the primers giving out. There was no cratering but 2 primers really flattened out (see center and 3 o'clock primers in the photo) and I didn't want one to pierce. Does anyone know if Federal 215 Ms are soft? Any suggestions for tougher primers?
One of the ejectors (DTA bolt has two) has a sharp spot on it and kept scraping the brass so I will polish it and keep an eye out for any other issues. Due to this, all the brass to include the lowest charges all look like they have ejector swipe, but there is no mark where the ejector was during firing, so no brass is flowing into the ejector hole(s) in the boltface.
The next step will be to refine and reassess powder charges between about 89.4 and 90.6 grs. The barrel should speed up a little as it breaks in and I will post when I have more results.
From left to right the picture of bullets is a .300 NM with 198 gr Flatline, a 7 WSM with 180 gr Berger VLD, and .308 Win with 175 gr SMK.
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The 230 SMKs are my back-up plan if the Flatlines won't group for me, although that may require re-chambering my barrel. Next Load Dev trip I will check for powder nodes on a paper target and that will give me a good idea if the accuracy is there or not.
Proving dope at 1090. First shot was .1 low. Raised it and 5 shots @ 6”
I have read through this thread and I didn't notice any loads using IMR 8133. Has anyone tried this powder in the norma mag? The burn rate is about the same as n570 and it is supposed to be temp stable and clean burning.
It should be a good match for bullets in the 215 to 230 range.
It should be a good match for bullets in the 215 to 230 range.
Would a SMK be longer or shorter than a hybrid target if both were set at the same ogive length? Anyone?
230smk and 215hyb put about the same amount bullet body in neck touching land..the 230hyb is about 15-25thousand more
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