Rifle Scopes 10x riflescope poll...

Will you buy such a scope?

  • Yes

    Votes: 81 39.9%
  • No

    Votes: 122 60.1%

  • Total voters
    203
Every time SWFA has a good sale I think again about buying a fixed 10x like I had years ago, then I remind myself why I actually don't want one when I go out w/ the clip-on NV and find myself dialing magnification back for better FOV. SWFA fixed power optics are excellent, especially for the money, but no way would I shuck out $1k for something along those lines.

If SWFA were to overhaul their fixed 10x+ power scopes with an EBR-7C type reticle and locking turrets w/ an elevation zero stop while keeping the same adjustment range, build/glass quality, and price point, then they'd have a winner. That would be asking a lot, though.
 
) Will you buy it. No, but I would buy a 12x to15x
2) If Yes, what objective diameter would you want? 50 or 56
3) Will you buy it if it is made in China? NO
4) Will you buy it if it is made in the Phillipines? Maybe
5) Will you buy it if it is made in Japan? YES
6) Will you buy it if it is made in the US? YES
7) Will you buy it if it is made in Europe? YES
8) Are you considering US Optic BFX10? NO
8a) If No, Would you consider it if they had JPVCR reticle available? NO

Most important to me in order are:
Tracking/reliability
Easy to get behind(not difficult to look thru for extended time)
Reticle thickness
Decent glass, most From Japan or Germany is fine with me
10 mil turrets
Eyepiece doesn’t turn with power ring(if we were talking variable)

All my current glass is 4-16 or 3-15, Hensoldt and Steiner, they are reliable and easy to get behind. I do own a SWFA 10xHD that is on my Savage 22 magnum.

$800 or less
 
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1) Will you buy it.
Yes
2) If Yes, what objective diameter would you want?
56mm
3) Will you buy it if it is made in China?
Yes
4) Will you buy it if it is made in the Phillipines?
Yes
5) Will you buy it if it is made in Japan?
Yes
6) Will you buy it if it is made in the US?
Yes
7) Will you buy it if it is made in Europe?
Yes
8) Are you considering US Optic BFX10?
No
8a) If No, Would you consider it if they had JPVCR reticle available?
No, not interested in USO
 
I didn’t read through the entire thread, so forgive me if I’m repeating someone else’s ideas. I doubt what I want is possible in the price range we’re discussing, but I do like the idea of a modern fixed power scope. I’d just like to see one with a detachable eyepiece that would determine the final magnification and house the reticle, and include an integrated electronic level, visible in the field of view, for those that want it. Accessory eyepieces would be available with the magnification and reticle of your choice, similar to a high quality spotter. This would also lend itself to an integrated BT display that could superimpose ballistic data from a linked source. (Kestrel, phone app, etc.)

I would be fine with any of the listed countries of origin other than China.
I am not considering any US Optic products at this time.
At least a 30mm tube
At least a 50mm obj.
Illumination located in ocular housing with push button controls (similar to Eotech holographic sight)
Low profile, locking turrets with tactile rev indicator
Side parallax turret
Locking diopter adjustment
Great glass

If such an optic could be built to high standards of quality and durability, I might be alone, but I would buy it.
 
I didn’t read through the entire thread, so forgive me if I’m repeating someone else’s ideas. I doubt what I want is possible in the price range we’re discussing, but I do like the idea of a modern fixed power scope. I’d just like to see one with a detachable eyepiece that would determine the final magnification and house the reticle, and include an integrated electronic level, visible in the field of view, for those that want it. Accessory eyepieces would be available with the magnification and reticle of your choice, similar to a high quality spotter. This would also lend itself to an integrated BT display that could superimpose ballistic data from a linked source. (Kestrel, phone app, etc.)

I would be fine with any of the listed countries of origin other than China.
I am not considering any US Optic products at this time.
At least a 30mm tube
At least a 50mm obj.
Illumination located in ocular housing with push button controls (similar to Eotech holographic sight)
Low profile, locking turrets with tactile rev indicator
Side parallax turret
Locking diopter adjustment
Great glass

If such an optic could be built to high standards of quality and durability, I might be alone, but I would buy it.
You would more than likely be alone. I would wager most people don’t want integrated anything on their scope or any hud display either. I sure don’t. I want a scope not a computer. But hey it’s your dream. ?
 
I haven’t bought any swfa scopes for a few years, but the last few I had, the glass was pretty poor, almost Walmart special grade. The turrets seemed to work, but were so mushy that It was hard to tell that there were any clicks at all. Also it would be nice to have low profile turrets similar the Bushnell LRHS.
 
What would you improve compares to the options out there now, like SWFA Classic scopes?

ILya
The main thing wrong with the SWFA IMO is the turrets.

10 mil toolless reset, with heavy tactile clicks would be huge improvement.

Improvements in glass and reticle would be well worth a reasonable price increase over current models....$600 or there abouts wouldn't be too heinous IMO.
 
The main thing wrong with the SWFA IMO is the turrets.

10 mil toolless reset, with heavy tactile clicks would be huge improvement.
I have never twisted a turret that made me shoot any better or worse. The SWFA turrets aren't bad at all. They just come with plenty of grease. Run them up and down about three times and you get nice audible detent which in my opinion of course makes no difference anyway.
 
I have never twisted a turret that made me shoot any better or worse. The SWFA turrets aren't bad at all. They just come with plenty of grease. Run them up and down about three times and you get nice audible detent which in my opinion of course makes no difference anyway.
My issue with them is they are 5 mil and too easy to turn as is. Also, the system of securing the turret caps with small screws to a brass ring inside is straight out of 1980.

From the bench or firing line they work just fine. From the stand point of a scope suited to dragging through the woods...not so much.
 
What would you improve compares to the options out there now, like SWFA Classic scopes?

ILya

This thread seems to be running up against conflicting tensions of cost vs. features vs. what is available today.
  • What you originally described is a want for modern/premium features on a fixed 10x listing for $1000.
  • Whether SWFA is the final manufacturer of proposed scope, it draws the natural comparison.
  • A very nice fixed 10x is out there (missing some of your features) in the SWFA HD, listing for $800.
  • If SWFA were to manufacture an HD 10x + your feature set, one might reasonably conclude that would cost $1000. This seems like the scope you were (at least originally) looking for.
  • A lot of people on this thread are balking at $1000, but might go for ~$500-600, which might reasonably be in the ballpark of the Classic + features.
I will say that from a business standpoint, it would seem odd to add premium features to the base model (Classic), but not to the premium model (HD). Yet reaching beyond $800 for a fixed 10x may be stretching beyond that perceived "value" sweet spot that people look for when choosing a fixed 10x.

Tracking/durability/build quality at a value price are SWFA's biggest sell points. Sacrificing those in order to keep cost down and add those features would also be a fail, and would likely damage the reputation of the company.

This is a difficult nut to crack.

That said, a smart, simplified tree, purpose-designed for 10x would likely sell.

Perhaps they might be more inclined to keep build quality as is, and swap out limited features that would not increase the overall price, yet still "modernize" the scope. What about a build like this:
  • Redesigned reticle (same price, I think)
  • Capped windage (decrease price)
  • Zero stop (small increase price)
Theoretically, a build like that might maintain current price (of either Classic or HD), and now people have some more options. Maybe +$50 is still close enough to that "value" sweet spot.

Nik
 
I have never twisted a turret that made me shoot any better or worse. The SWFA turrets aren't bad at all. They just come with plenty of grease. Run them up and down about three times and you get nice audible detent which in my opinion of course makes no difference anyway.

This thread is about what we want in a 10x scope, not what we should be content with.
 
There are a plethora of quite good variable scopes in the thousand dollar arena. A fixed scope of similar quality should be substantially less. When you consider what you can get with the XTR II and PST and SIII scopes, a quality fixed option 10x or 12x should be no more than 600. I think the swfa HD 10x is overpriced, especially when you consider the 3-9 is priced similarly.
 
My original question about $1k price point was somewhat arbitrary, but I really wanted to see what kind of interest can there be for a fixed power scope in the current market and see where it might have a place.

My interest is in convincing some manufacturer to make a scope that is suitable for precision shooting, but is lighter and more compact than what we have without sacrificing usability and depth of field.

A few things came out of that.

First there was an interesting and positive response to Lowlight's suggestion of a 14x scope.

Then, there is a fairly strong preference for a 50mm objective. Historically, there were several decent 10x50 scopes, but they were always shortchanged by some boneheaded design decision. I am a little concerned that at least one or two people associated larger objective lens with wider FOV, which is plain wrong. If anything, it is harder to get wider FOV with a larger objective (although easier with a fixed power scope).

When most current fixed power scopes were designed, 40-42mm was the norm, but today 50mm is very standard.

There were several other interesting things in the answers that are educational.

In terms of actual products, it looks like $600 or so is the practical limit of what people want to pay for a decent fixed power scope. A good number of people answered "Yes" to my original $1k question, but that usually goes down once the time comes to open up your wallet.

If I were a scope manufacturer, I would not invest into designing a new fixed power scope, which is why, I think, the conversation quickly turned to what an updated SWFA Classic should look like. I hope they have seen this thread and taken notes. Fixed power scope market is not very big, but if they play their cards right, the can have it all to themselves for quite a while.

There was a little bit of a discussion on switch power scopes and that is an idea I would like to explore when I have a chance. I think many modern scopes with large erector ratios are excellent, but they are complicated and I have some serious suspicions about their viability at lower price ranges, so I would really like to see some development with affordable fixed power and low erector ratio scopes.

Another interesting idea that I would not mind seeing more of is March's Eyepiece Zoom (EP). They make a target shooting scope that is effective a fixed power scope, except there is some limited zoom done with the eyepiece. You do not have a ton of zoom: about 1.5x or so, but the optical quality they are getting out of that thing is really stunning. The current model is the 40-60x52, so it is not something that will pop up on this forum very much. However, it weighs around 24 ounces, I think, even with that long objective system. I bet that if there was a market, March could make a 10-15x52 version of this scope that would knock everyone's socks off in terms of image quality.

However, March products, while very good are not cheap, so it would probably not come in under $2k. I bet they could do something like this in the 18 ounce range. For me it would be very interesting, but I doubt it will have mass appeal.

ILya
 
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Another interesting idea that I would not mind seeing more of is March's Eyepiece Zoom (EP). They make a target shooting scope that is effective a fixed power scope, except there is some limited zoom done with the eyepiece. You do not have a ton of zoom: about 1.5x or so, but the optical quality they are getting out of that thing is really stunning.

This is and idea I have talked with you about before, though not accomplished in this way.

I would rarely, if ever, go below about 6x anyway. It has been stated that 14x is a great sweet spot, so why not 7x-14x, or something similar?
 
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This is and idea I have talked with you about before, though not accomplished in this way.

I would rarely, if ever, go below about 6x anyway. It has been stated that 14x is a great sweet spot, so why not 7x-14x, or something similar?

I do not see why this would not work, but I would have a very hard time convincing any manufacturer to do it. The EP Zoom platform already exists, so it would be comparatively simpler to convince March to do that.

Personally, I would really like a well optimized switchpower 7x/14x scope

ILya
 
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I do not see why this would not work, but I would have a very hard time convincing any manufacturer to do it. The EP Zoom platform already exists, so it would be comparatively simpler to convince March to do that.

Personally, I would really like a well optimized switchpower 7x/14x scope

ILya
Wouldn't even need to be a "switch" power, just a small zoom ratio in FFP.

But as you said, it wouldn't sell at all so it's a non-starter.
 
I may be the minority, but the idea of a 7/14 or such mag switch doesn’t appeal to me.

Would much prefer a 10x50mm and a 2.5-10x32 FFP. Both mil/mil, simple mil (non-tree) reticle designed for both, sub 20oz/sub 17oz respectively, 10mil elevation, parallax adjustment, capped windage, maybe illumination.
 
I wish someone would make an updated version of the old Bausch @ Lomb 10X tactical scope. It even had 144 minutes of travel and was very high quality.

Additionally an updated version of the Leupold MK4 16X I think would sell well.
 
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I wish someone would make an updated version of the old Bausch @ Lomb 10X tactical scope. It even had 144 minutes of travel and was very high quality.

Additionally an updated version of the Leupold MK4 16X I think would sell well.

SWFA 10x42HD is essentially a reincarnation of the B&L 10x with mrad turrets and more modern reticle

ILya
 
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A nice, light 6x32 1” tube with mil quad type reticle has been number one on my wish list for years.
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