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8.6 Blk reloading info
- Thread starter unclemoak
- Start date
If it has space then how is the bolt tight?
And we use brass specifically for its ability to expand.
Compare the brass to a reamer or chamber print then. IF you want to find out what the problem is you will have to do something to find out what the problem is.
Dang auto correct it does not have room to expand sorry
Also I shoot a lot of dasher stuff and do a ton of reloading but I just can’t figure this deal out and it being a new caliber for hornady to make dies for makes me think the dies r just a tad off because when I started out the shoulder moved some when I kept moving the die down but I’m to the point now we’re my die is all on the shell holder with a very hard cam over
Also I shoot a lot of dasher stuff and do a ton of reloading but I just can’t figure this deal out and it being a new caliber for hornady to make dies for makes me think the dies r just a tad off because when I started out the shoulder moved some when I kept moving the die down but I’m to the point now we’re my die is all on the shell holder with a very hard cam over
I'm curious to find out what they say about 300 Blk as another powder for 8.6 Blk. I wonder if Hornady is trying out different powders as well. I think it's more about the pressures but I hope we would see other alternatives that have been officially tested in a lab.
I finally got it working after bruising my chest - expander will likely never move again. I think lack of lube may also have been a factor; 5 cases later, I got a stuck case (ripped the rim off the head). I bought a set of Hornady dies. Using the exact same method and lube I had been using with the Lee dies, it works fine! Lots of pressure obviously, but it works well.
I am using Lapua 6.5CM cases. These cases are thick! Hopefully, this will translate into more reloadings per case.
I don't completely understand the annealing process (meaning the metalurgical reasoning), so I have been hesitant to adopt it.
Annealing is absolutely necessary when aggressively expanding and sizing brass. I suggest you do some research on why annealing is so important in the case of wildcatting.
Oh ok…I use brass juice it’s a spray on. I do larger volume and it’s been probably the best I’ve found even better than lanolin spray. It smells like peppermint too.
Probably because you’re not using an AMP annealer. With flame annealers you only get a partial anneal. So I can see why you’d need baby snot consistency for a case lube. I’m running batches of 500 or more during a day so I can’t spend a lot of time rubbing down one case at a time in lube to convert. I just anneal my batch (most time consuming part), run it through a Honey Badger case trimmer to 1.690” then move over to the FL sizing die, then off to the Giraud Case trimmer where it’s final trimmed to 1.680”, chamfered, and debur in one step and brass is ready to go after walnut/cob mix tumbling. I load for resale and time is money.
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So you cut the 6.5CM case first and then expand? When I did that there were too many jagged and rough edges; I had to chamfer and deburr prior to resizing, which is not easy on the shoulder of a case.
I’m using a Honey Badger Case Trimmer which partially sized the brass and it uses a Bosch router. Yes I found that it works best. No rough edges but it’s sharp and uniform.
It’s always hard to completely get the context someone is trying to express on a forum. I didn’t take any offense but I also wanted to share another option that’s worked for me in a larger quantity production because I sell the ammo I make. So if I came off cocky I apologize.
There was quite the publicity blitz for the 8.6, mostly from Q, and while some of it was hype there is a very real difference in the way 8.6 handled getting the most possible energy on target. Now silence (good when shooting, not when waiting for info) from all companies, just as you pointed out. I'm going to ping Hornady this week and see if/when they plan on releasing their 8.6 subs and what load they use.
I’m waiting for their Sub-X bullets in .338 cal that’s the ticket! Hopefully a cheaper more available option to the Makers since it’s always radio silence over there when trying to get more.
At least dies are now readily available from Hornady, Lee, and Redding. Things are moving in the right direction.
Just got a box of 500 today. Should have some loaded up for the weekend.
I also have some for load development; they are as close to the weight of the real (read: Maker) bullets I could find. I'm gonna use A1680 and CFEBLK to find the best sub-s grouping. No way am I going to send $3 downrange each time to sight in!
I'm not sure how these will expand at sub velocities, which is important to me as I will use this gun mostly for culling. Currently, I only plan on using them for sighting in and load dev. If anyone has input on how these bullets behave at sub velocities, I would greatly appreciate it.
They won’t…they’re target loads. Best for just shooting. Get Maker 350gr Rex or Lehigh 288 fracturing if the intended use is culling…or run the lighter bullets supersonic like a 180gr Nosler Accubond or 210gr Barnes TSX. At the moment that’s all there is.
I’m sorry it was a typo…I meant 298gr from Gorilla they sell the bullets themselves.
Gorilla 8.6BLK 298gr Subsonic Fracturing Projectiles | Gorilla Ammunition
Maximum of 2 boxes per customer. Initial demand is high and we’re trying to provide access to as many customers as possible.
www.gorillaammo.com
No worries, just was trying to figure out if there was something I was missing. I did buy a couple bags from them already and the sticker shock is real. Doesn't really make load development "easy".I’m sorry it was a typo…I meant 298gr from Gorilla they sell the bullets themselves.
Gorilla 8.6BLK 298gr Subsonic Fracturing Projectiles | Gorilla Ammunition
Maximum of 2 boxes per customer. Initial demand is high and we’re trying to provide access to as many customers as possible.
If it’s something that will kill the 8.6, it’s the price of viable projectiles. That’s why I’ve been trying to keep my prices below Gorilla’s so that people have options.
Neck sizing is no longer the preferred method and was ONLY used in the benchrest crowd. I use a Sheridan case gauge to check all my brass especially after it’s loaded as brass can spring back more during the seating process. Neck sizing only causes the issues you talked about, stuck casings in gas guns, case stretching from heavy bolt lift, and higher chamber pressures.
Also with 8.6 Blackout there is no neck sizing, only full length sizing because no one makes a die that allows for it. Eventually they might make a bushing die but that still sizes the body to minimum spec. I always anneal prior to sizing so the benefits of not over-working your brass as the neck sizers all claim is mute. Always full length size and you’ll be good to go.
Yeah some people get overly OCD and it becomes the only way and they end up chasing their tails…I’ve done it myself. The only thing I can say is that even with the Sheridan gauge, if you’re installing a Remage barrel it can be tricky to properly install unless you isolate several of the components. Example, you have the barrel, barrel nut, recoil lug if it’s an unpinned Remington 700, and finally the action…that’s 4 individual parts that have to be timed to each other. I use a modular barrel vice, a wrench for the barrel nut, a recoil lug alignment fixture, and an action wrench that I isolate the action with when tightening the barrel nut. So it’s a bit of work but you can circumvent a lot of it by using a custom action that either has an integral recoil lug or pinned recoil lug…or you can have your recoil lug pinned.
Am I understanding correctly that the 270 grain seconds are good if ran below 1520fps?Looks like I need to grab some CX/GMX projectiles. I went out today to test Reloader 10x and IMR 8208 XBR with my 270gr ELD-X's. Turns out the 270s are good up to about 1550FPS. Over that the frequency of jacket separation increases. I tested 8208 XBR from 28gn to 32.1gn and had no pressure signs. The top few loads were compressed.
I gave up on the Reloader 10x at 28.5gn because all the rounds were breaking apart.
I have some gorilla 285's but the length is significantly different so I need to work up a different load.
After jacking up my Palmetto State Armory upper I replaced it with an Aero Precision build.
That looks like a Shepard scope…how are those? The build looks clean. Yeah I can’t leave them alone myself. I have this one Form1’d to 14.5” and LSA did the camo pattern on it.
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I have done subsonic for the most part but tried a few supers. 285gr ELD-M, 300gr SMK, and 350gr Maker Rex. I’m playing around with 180gr Nosler Accubonds as well…will try some Barnes TSX and maybe some lighter Maker bullets if Paul will make them.
Are you annealing? How are you annealing? With this caliber if you’re converting brass you really need to anneal.
Are you considering turning the necks after sizing? If so, I have the RCBS neck hand turner I believe you’re talking about and it’s very tight with the .338 pilot so turning one down yourself is probably a great idea after all. The picture of those factory seconds are indeed 300gr Sierra SMK’s. They shoot great in the 8.6 so you’ll be happy with those.
Yes…what barrel length are you using? I have load data for both a 12” gas gun and 16” bolt gun. If you’re shooting a 285gr ELD-M or a 300gr SMK, I’ve used primarily H110 and w296 and some a1680 as well.
For a 12” with 285gr ELD-M 14.8gr of a1680 gets you 1050 fps average.
For a 12” with 300gr SMK 15.1gr of H110 gets you 1050 fps average.
For a 16” 285gr ELD-M 14.5gr of a1680 gets you 1030 fps average.
For a 16” 300gr SMK 14.6gr of H110 gets you 1066 fps average.
I’m still working up loads.
All, following up on my email with Hornady, I sent an email to Q. Basically "WTF man?!" My email is below and I will update as soon as I get a reply.
Mr. Brittingham,
A lot of people, including myself, have bought into the 8.6 Blackout world. The science is very sound and the added terminal performance over the 300 BLK is significant. I am speaking for a large number of shooters when I ask, "What happened?"
There was a lot of support from major brands, but now they want nothing to do with it! I emailed Hornady last week, and they told me they have no plans to release ammo for 8.6 Blackout and are not offering their .338 Sub-x bullets either. As the end consumer, we kinda feel collectively left to fend for ourselves, which is disappointing considering how the cartridge was billed. Some of the main questions those of us who have a 8.6 rifle, but no real source of ammo:
Are there plans for collaboration with other major ammo manufacturers?
Will you be making 8.6 brass?
Can you provide guidance on what non-solid copper (aka: traditional) .338 bullets will hold together with the 3" twist rate? (Berger OTM, Norma ORYX, etc)
Can you provide guidance on what bullets that do hold together expand reliably at subsonic velocities?
Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Robert
Mr. Brittingham,
A lot of people, including myself, have bought into the 8.6 Blackout world. The science is very sound and the added terminal performance over the 300 BLK is significant. I am speaking for a large number of shooters when I ask, "What happened?"
There was a lot of support from major brands, but now they want nothing to do with it! I emailed Hornady last week, and they told me they have no plans to release ammo for 8.6 Blackout and are not offering their .338 Sub-x bullets either. As the end consumer, we kinda feel collectively left to fend for ourselves, which is disappointing considering how the cartridge was billed. Some of the main questions those of us who have a 8.6 rifle, but no real source of ammo:
Are there plans for collaboration with other major ammo manufacturers?
Will you be making 8.6 brass?
Can you provide guidance on what non-solid copper (aka: traditional) .338 bullets will hold together with the 3" twist rate? (Berger OTM, Norma ORYX, etc)
Can you provide guidance on what bullets that do hold together expand reliably at subsonic velocities?
Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Robert
Thanks for sharing the email you composed & sent. It is well written and hits all the points in relation to this cartridge. Keep us posted on the reply.
If Q or KB reply with anything other than "blow it out your ass" I will be genuinely shocked.
First two pieces made up super easy with no jacked up shoulders. As said before, start with Hornady 6.5 LP brass, chop saw to around 1.69 then anneal, chamfer and deburr, and straight to the sizer. These were just to set up the chop saw, AMP and sizing die. I’ll make a batch up where I’ll anneal again after final trim.
Looks really good. What is the length of the case after resizing? I have been forming first and then cutting on the chop saw. Lots of little wrinkles near the base of the neck for me.
They only grew maybe .002 after sizing. My first cut was right at 1.685 and were a touch short after trimming. I would cut them closer to 1.69
And give you a little room to trim to.
Brass is prepped and primed to do some load development tomorrow.
The Sheridan case gauge is an awesome tool when getting set up to make brass for the first time.
Mocked up a round with the COAL at 2.600 using the 185 CX
The Sheridan case gauge is an awesome tool when getting set up to make brass for the first time.
Mocked up a round with the COAL at 2.600 using the 185 CX
I searched and didn't see it anywhere, but has anyone come up with load data yet for the Gorilla 285 gr bullets? I could probably extrapolate from the Faxon/Q chart for the 300 gr bullets, but that's where their chart, to me at least, is messed up.
Glad to see you chipping away at what appears to be a bit of a problem child round.
Between the super fast twist rate and possibly needing to turn necks, I'll sit this round out for a bit. I'm sure if it takes off the internet will figure out which brands of .308 and 6.5C can be converted without neck turning, kinda like how LC was the initial go-to for 300BO to avoid thick necks, but it also seems there might be some lack of consistency across barrel manufacturers.
Best of luck to you and I look forward to reading what you figure out to be the sweet spot of brass, powder, and projectile(s).
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