8.6 Blk reloading info

Remember those Nerf Footballs of years gone by? Get the perfect spin and they whistled all the way to to their destination.

Q is trying to make their bullet sing.

Jokes aside, it’s rotational energy. If you can add another 100 ftlb of energy, why not?

Also, they prob wanted to push the envelope. Again, why not?
Well, there are obvious reasons why not. Like all the bullets you can’t use because of that twist rate.

And you’re not adding a significant amount of of energy with it. Certainly not 100 ft-lb. Maybe 10.

IMO they (Q) did it because it was different and got attention; they’re trying to build hype around the cartridge. Any perceived benefit seems to be outweighed by the cons.
 
Certainly, I don’t think many are looking to this as a primary round… in my eyes, it’s a “niche” round with some unique features (and yes, I am sure Hype was a big (perhaps even biggest) motivational factor).

I’m sure there are very few real reasons why we need a round that bridges the gap between 300 BLK and 450 SOCOM, but for me, it was because:
A. I already load 338L, so it’s not adding another projectile that I need to stock.
B. Because I like 300 BLK, but do desire more energy
3. That rotational energy certainly has some merit in the anecdotes that I’ve seen. I could be mistaken on the increase in ft-lb, but I thought I recalled some posted figures in the arena of +100. I’ll try to dig it up tonight.
IV. Sometimes “New” and “Different” are just fun.
 
@dnchrist & @Yondering,

It’s the darn decapping/expansion rod and retainment mechanism. No matter how hard I try to secure the darn thing (I’ve literally started stripping the nut at this point…) it ends up shifting.

First time using LEE dies and won’t plan to use them again. Never an issue with other MFG with the threaded retainment method.

For now I’m decapping/expanding using a 338 Lapua die then sizing, trimming, turning, and resizing followed by a last plunge with the 338L.
The Lee dies work, but that expander shaft collet nut needs to be super tight. If it was actually tight, you would be snatching the rims off the case instead pulling the shaft through the nut. My Lee die has the rod extending .085 above the nut which was tightened via a crescent wrench. You can spend your coin anyway you wish; but instead buying new dies I would purchase a K&M 6mm>30 and .338 expanders and the press adapter, less than $40 for those items. Further forming the 8.6 case from a well lubed( imperial die wax is my choice) 338 CM case is a piece cake.
 
Hornady mandrel works perfectly for me while using the 338 tin/steel expander from sinclairs. The KM one I have is too tight (.010 I think). I think you need to get the top range from .3-.5 neck tension from km. I don't even use the pilot for my km cutter now. I only use the KM to barely touch the shoulder should the round not easily chamber once I have already loaded it. Which works probably 9/10 times from not chambering or chambering tightly to chambering normally.
I had K&M grind me a custom turning pilot that was conducive to my existing 338 expander. It was either try +.002/.003 larger expanders or try the custom pilot. I would have preferred the expander method, but the turning pilot was cheaper and works like champ.
 
Thanks for the tips on the collet nut, guys. Midway got some Hornady dies in stock so I ordered those and a new LEE collet nut. I’ll be sure to give them both a whirl and let whichever one is less desirable collect dust.
FYI the Hornady system is very similar; it has very shallow “threads” in it but it’ll still slip if it’s not really locked down.
 
Certainly, I don’t think many are looking to this as a primary round… in my eyes, it’s a “niche” round with some unique features (and yes, I am sure Hype was a big (perhaps even biggest) motivational factor).

I’m sure there are very few real reasons why we need a round that bridges the gap between 300 BLK and 450 SOCOM, but for me, it was because:
A. I already load 338L, so it’s not adding another projectile that I need to stock.
B. Because I like 300 BLK, but do desire more energy
3. That rotational energy certainly has some merit in the anecdotes that I’ve seen. I could be mistaken on the increase in ft-lb, but I thought I recalled some posted figures in the arena of +100. I’ll try to dig it up tonight.
IV. Sometimes “New” and “Different” are just fun.

Seems like "dramatically faster twist rate" was done for hype vice a tangible benefit and is the big detractor (for me) at this point.

Seems like a lot of 338 loaders are having to stock a different bullet anyway though, since that twist rate requires bonded bullets that most other rounds don’t need.

This is what's holding me back. I'm not stocking a bullet for 8.6BO that's more expensive than the ones I use in my 338LM to get to a mile. If anything, my 338BO would be getting cheaper factory seconds as it's not going crazy distances.

Guess I'll stand-by and see if someone starts doing barrels in slower twist rates, since blowing apart a cup and core bullet in my Titan-Ti or Hybrid46 doesn't seem like a fun time.
 
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Seems like "dramatically faster twist rate" was done for hype vice a tangible benefit and is the big detractor (for me) at this point.



This is what's holding me back. I'm not stocking a bullet for 8.6BO that's more expensive than the ones I use in my 338LM to get to a mile. If anything, my 338BO would be getting cheaper factory seconds as it's not going crazy distances.

Guess I'll stand-by and see if someone starts doing barrels in slower twist rates, since blowing apart a cup and core bullet in my Titan-Ti or Hybrid46 doesn't seem like a fun time.
Agreed, if someone starts doing this round in something more reasonable twist barrels like 1/7 etc it’ll make this a much more realistic and user friendly round.

IMO just talking about it will at least get people thinking and aware of that need, and then some barrel maker will step up and do it.
 
I've been using Federal 6.5 Creedmoor small primer brass. When I first annealed and sized to 8.6 in one step in Lee dies, I had 2 cases with split necks out of 100. Those 98 have now been reloaded and fired 5 times with no more annealing and no more split necks. They fit in the chamber nicely using Lee dies and NO TURNING!

I ordered the Hornady Custom Grade New Dimension Bullet Seater Die. Hopefully that will do a better job of seating the long projectiles without leaving marks or indentations.

I just got the RCBS 3-way trimmer attachment for the Trim Pro, which I updated with a with a power drill. The Lee expander apparently doesn't expand enough, because the 3-way trimmer die stuck going into the case and caused the whole case to spin and jump out of the holder. I disassembled the trimmer die and chucked the head in a power drill and sized the guide down and polished it so that it no longer grabs the inside of the case. Works very well now, and saves a LOT of work!

Has anyone come up with a working recipe for sub-sonic with Sierra 300 gr projectiles using TAC or CFE223?

In case you need to turn some: I’ve been using the trim pro on mine. Had to make a couple mods and adjustments to make it efficient.

1. The drill conversion pieces (machine screw and ball-head Allen key) don’t hold up to the demands of this level of trimming. After wearing out the inside of the machine screw, I ordered some Rx car u-joints off Amazon and converted it over. One side fits the machine screw well, the other fits a 1/4” socket adapter well. Now the thing rips!

2. For using the trim pro for any reaming/turning needs, the case has to be well centered for uniformity. To center, I chuck up the casing then bring the pilot to the casemouth. Once it is touching, I release the tensioner (by holding down the handle on the trim pro) and spin the pilot into case mouth, Allowing the case to spin in the universal jaws. It mostly self-aligns, then when I observe the sweet spot, I apply tension in the holder by removing pressure on the handle.

This whole process takes about 2 seconds to perform, and yields me neck thickness +/- .001, while taking less than half the time to run through without properly aligning (those results were +/- .004, which I did not find acceptable.)
 
I'm still mainly reading and absorbing info.

I reload for my 6.5 bolt gun, .223 wylde already and about to start for my Aero M5 6.5CM has gun.

One reason I built my AR10 was for the potential to build an 8.6 Blk upper one day.

I use the Little Crow Gunworks trimmer for 6.5 and 5.56 brass.

I'm no expert, but just mentioning this product because it may be something some of you haven't seen and would tickle your fancy.
 
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I'm still mainly reading and absorbing info.

I reload for my 6.5 bolt gun, .223 wylde already and about to start for my Aero M5 6.5CM has gun.

One reason I built my AR10 was for the potential to build an 8.6 Blk upper one day.

I use the Little Crow Gunworks trimmer for 6.5 and 5.56 brass.

I'm no expert, but just mentioning this product because it may be something some of you haven't seen and would tickle your fancy.
I almost picked up the .338L version for exactly this reason, but never pulled the trigger. Might be the perfect way to trim down the sized brass but wasn’t sure how length is set and didn’t research well enough to understand. Does it reference off of the shoulder for trim length?
 
I'm gonna say it's more likely he double charged that one, or at least severely overcharged it. Everyone insists they didn't after something like this, but mistakes happen.

For that reason, I prefer to use subsonic loads that fill the case, or at least can't be double charged, whenever possible. But it's not always possible.
Ya, it's possible I double charged it. I've since added an extra check before seeing bullets to hopefully prevent that.

Anyhow, Take into account that I put a cleaning rod down the barrel and whacked the crap out of it with a 5 lb sledge and the gunsmith also put a oak dowel down the barrel and whacked on it for a while. I'm not sure the photo of the brass is the best indicator of the load.
I was being dumb and single loading with a bolt slam, since I did not yet have the ability to trim the necks. Thought I could get away with it for 20 rounds.

Walk of shame...
 
@dnchrist & @Yondering,

It’s the darn decapping/expansion rod and retainment mechanism. No matter how hard I try to secure the darn thing (I’ve literally started stripping the nut at this point…) it ends up shifting.

First time using LEE dies and won’t plan to use them again. Never an issue with other MFG with the threaded retainment method.

For now I’m decapping/expanding using a 338 Lapua die then sizing, trimming, turning, and resizing followed by a last plunge with the 338L.
I had to trim the decapping pinnoff mine as it was larger than my flash hole and ruined a bunch of brass
 
I had to trim the decapping pinnoff mine as it was larger than my flash hole and ruined a bunch of brass
I also had a problem with mine, it was getting hung up in the flash hole and getting galled (surprising as I would have expected the brass to give way first) so I ended up having to file it down. Removing all together is probably wisest! Hopefully RCBS will come out with a die set soon… all these other budget oriented ones are leaving a lot to be desired!
 
I've been using Federal 6.5 Creedmoor small primer brass. When I first annealed and sized to 8.6 in one step in Lee dies, I had 2 cases with split necks out of 100. Those 98 have now been reloaded and fired 5 times with no more annealing and no more split necks. They fit in the chamber nicely using Lee dies and NO TURNING!

I ordered the Hornady Custom Grade New Dimension Bullet Seater Die. Hopefully that will do a better job of seating the long projectiles without leaving marks or indentations.

I just got the RCBS 3-way trimmer attachment for the Trim Pro, which I updated with a with a power drill. The Lee expander apparently doesn't expand enough, because the 3-way trimmer die stuck going into the case and caused the whole case to spin and jump out of the holder. I disassembled the trimmer die and chucked the head in a power drill and sized the guide down and polished it so that it no longer grabs the inside of the case. Works very well now, and saves a LOT of work!

Has anyone come up with a working recipe for sub-sonic with Sierra 300 gr projectiles using TAC or CFE223?


Those with annealing experience may notice a correlation between the things in bold above.

Your Lee expander isn't expanding enough because your brass is work hardened from firing 5 times without annealing. Your case neck tension is probably through the roof.
 
I suspect that part of the reason my brass is doing so well is beause the brass I use is thinner, so when the expander works, it does not require turning the necks to fit the chamber. That is the main reason I am using FEDERAL cases with small primer pockets. Also, IMO, stress on the case is greatly reduced by using TAC (or CFE223) instead of the faster 1680. My cases thank me with no flattened primers or ejector swipes or split necks and one-hole groups. When I first started using Federal brass, I did anneal and mark a few samples each time. I saw no benefit, so I don't now. I'm 76, so I save time whenever I can justify it with efficiency, as long as I am comfortable with safety. I had hoped to get 6 firings out of the Federals, so I am happy.

Pressure doesn’t correlate to work hardening of the case neck, so that really has nothing to do with it.

As for thinner necks - that can translate to more brass movement, meaning more work hardening.

Just saying, if you annealed, you’d likely find that same expander opened the necks enough to fit your trimmer. One of those little things that’s eye opening about what’s really going on once you see it. I’ve been there with this same thing.
 
I think you may have missed a part of my process which was detailed in an earlier post. Initially, after receiving them as once-fired brass, All cases were decapped with a Lyman Universal decapping die, cleaned, then annealed BEFORE sizing, sized, cleaned again to remove lube, then final trimming, beveling and then final cleaning, then the primer added.
Repeat, every case was annealed after primers were removed using a Lyman universal, then washed, then annealed BEFORE sizing or trimming the first time I used them. There was no expanded neck spring back on the sizing after my initial reload and firing. That is why I did not continue to anneal each time. That doesn't mean I won't have to after a couple more firings. I will monitor. These have been a lot easier than the 5.45X39 Russian from Remington 222 cases. I appreciate the help I try to learn something new every day. I haven't been on this forum long, but I have been reloading for over 50 years. I have an RCBS Jr, a RCBS turret press with 17 full turret plates (2 cals per turret) and a Dillon 750XL with 12 caliber sets. Using a mill and lathe, I've built 9 80% AR-15s, all different calibers, including AR-9, AR-45, 458 SOCOM, 50 Beowulf, 6mm ARC, Grendel, 5 80% AR-10s with different callibers, including 6.5 Creedmoor, and restored (welding included) Remington Rolling Block, UZI, PPS-43, Sten, 4 AK-47 models, 1 AK-74, and am currently welding up a CETME. I also reload Mauser, Arisaka, Mosin Nagant, Carcano, etc., so I've been around the block a couple of times, but the 8.6 is new to me, (because of lack of published data) not so much for super, but for subs. Those I have never done before, and this one with a very fast twist. The reason I listed so many items is, time permitting, if anyone needs help on something I have done, I'm here. If I don't know the answer, I will say so.

Maybe I did miss something. I’m not sure why you’re emphasizing annealing after depriming; I don’t know why that’s significant to you but it’s not to me.

You’re the one who said you’ve fired the cases 5 times without annealing, and now the die doesn’t expand necks enough not to stick on your trimmer pilot. I’m also not sure why this is a big deal or what your protest is, I’m just saying that after 5 firings, if they were annealed the die would leave the necks expanded a little further. That’s just the physics of work hardening and not a dig on you as a reloader.
 
@dnchrist & @Yondering,

It’s the darn decapping/expansion rod and retainment mechanism. No matter how hard I try to secure the darn thing (I’ve literally started stripping the nut at this point…) it ends up shifting.

First time using LEE dies and won’t plan to use them again. Never an issue with other MFG with the threaded retainment method.

For now I’m decapping/expanding using a 338 Lapua die then sizing, trimming, turning, and resizing followed by a last plunge with the 338L.
I found that trimming with the cutoff to 1.75 then I camfer/debur on my case prep station then full length size, then final trim to oal, works great. 200 done and only 3 screw ups from tweaking setup of processes. You gotta lube the heck out of the inside neck if your doing it before cutting from what I've seen on the fb pages.
 
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Because 8.6 enthusiasts-to-be are in this thread, what do you all think about the Trijicon 2-10 scope for one of these? 1-8 works fine for me on 300 blk ranges without any issue, but I wouldn't mind a little extra mag for the supposed increased range.
 
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I ended up putting a Vortex Razor HD Gen III 1-10x24 EBR-9C MRAD on my 8" 8.6 Blackout AR-10. I haven't had a lot of time behind it with 8.6, but I have used it a bit more on my 12.5" 308 AR-10 upper. I find that at the steel range at my rifle club, which has targets out to 765 yards, that the 1-10 has sufficient magnification to accurately engage the plates without struggling to see them. I thought about doing a Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50mm F1 but decided that it was too big and I didn't want to sacrifice the CQB ability of the rifle. I am very happy with the choice. I was initially going to get an Athlon Ares ETR 1-10x28 but I ended up getting a really good deal on the Vortex and went that route instead. I'm happy I did.
 

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I have also had the same experience as EagleEyeShooting with reforming. I have not had to turn hornady 6.5CM brass necks, though have had brass from other manufactures hang up if I did not turn the necks. I am using hornady dies.

Also like EagleEyeShooting, I also found 35.8gr of AA1680 to be too hot with 225gr barnes TTSXs. I was happier with results when bringing it down to 32.2gr.

I have had so much fun with this cartridge that I think I am going to get the RemAge-style barrel and put together a lightweight bolt action for backcountry black bear hunts as well. Does anyone have any recommendations on a good source for Remington 700 actions?

Thanks,
-JM
Get a PTG B-12 action if you want something closer to a 700 action. It’s a clone without all the headaches that come with the factory 700 actions.
 
Anyone that's reloading, which Dillon powder funnel have you used, if you have tried one, of course? I'm assuming maybe the "Q" funnel would be the closest since it's .338 cal, but not sure on the shoulder as I don't currently have anything that's .338.
I’m looking for this answer too…trying to set up on a XL750.
 
Yes. For a Dillon powder thru die with caliber specific insert. Darker grey/ blue piece is the Dillon powder die adapter to the funnel. The lighter grey silver tube is a drop tube that can be used with the Area 419 funnel.

Very common and well known amongst members on this forum.

View attachment 8006410
I have the Dillon powder through die but didn’t realize area 419 made one for that…but anyways the poster I believe wanted something he can use the powder hopper with. Which is the Q funnel. Also, do you mean to say B-12 action or was B-17 what you meant. I don’t see a B-17 action on their site. Is it an older action? The B-12 fits whatever I’ve put it into so…I dunno, not saying you’re not having issues but.
 
Aside from long wait times what have you had wrong with their stuff?
They sent me a Model 7 action with a gaping hole in the receiver where a bolt stop/release was supposed to be. I sent it back, they returned it with a blind pinned stop/release that didn't allow the bolt to come back far enough to strip rounds off the mag. That was a 8 month ordeal that ended with me buying a Defiance.
 
They sent me a Model 7 action with a gaping hole in the receiver where a bolt stop/release was supposed to be. I sent it back, they returned it with a blind pinned stop/release that didn't allow the bolt to come back far enough to strip rounds off the mag. That was a 8 month ordeal that ended with me buying a Defiance.

that sucks man…
They sent me a Model 7 action with a gaping hole in the receiver where a bolt stop/release was supposed to be. I sent it back, they returned it with a blind pinned stop/release that didn't allow the bolt to come back far enough to strip rounds off the mag. That was a 8 month ordeal that ended with me buying a Defiance.
That’s horrible man!
 
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I’m looking for this answer too…trying to set up on a XL750.
I can tell you that I tested with the Q funnel and there's not enough length in the funnel to fully actuate the Dillon powder measure. You run out of die adjustment downward hitting the shell plate just before you have enough upward motion to make it work. I also tried with with RL450 powder die with Redding 3BR powder measure and the case mouth is just short of making direct contact with the funnel. I suppose you could come up with some type of spacer that would fit within the die body, but I'm sure that could end up failing when you least want it to.

I also attempted to use the 338 Lapua funnel, but there's just too much length in that funnel to make it come close to working.

I can't say I followed the Area 419 discussion, but I'm assuming there's no solution there unless you wanted to do manual drops with their funnel.
 
I can tell you that I tested with the Q funnel and there's not enough length in the funnel to fully actuate the Dillon powder measure. You run out of die adjustment downward hitting the shell plate just before you have enough upward motion to make it work. I also tried with with RL450 powder die with Redding 3BR powder measure and the case mouth is just short of making direct contact with the funnel. I suppose you could come up with some type of spacer that would fit within the die body, but I'm sure that could end up failing when you least want it to.

I also attempted to use the 338 Lapua funnel, but there's just too much length in that funnel to make it come close to working.

I can't say I followed the Area 419 discussion, but I'm assuming there's no solution there unless you wanted to do manual drops with their funnel.
Yes you use a delrin spacer from ACE hardware over the top of the Q funnel. No powder spill and it’s been consistent. See attached photos.
 

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Thanks! What's the length measurement as well, please?
It fits snug but it moves effortlessly with the action of the powder actuating motion. After about 120 rds of 8.6 Blackout it comes out with minimal effort, you just tip the die over and the weight of the funnel usually lets it drop out free of the die. Make sure when selecting the delrin spacer it’s the one that has a hole larger than the powder hopper drop tube underneath.
 

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This is about the Sheridan gauge for 8.6 BLK. I received this email and ordered one immediately. I have several others.

Thank you for your support and patience.

As you requested, we are glad to inform you that 8.6BLKs are now available for sale on our website at:

https://sheridanengineering.com/

Thank you,

Laura Sheridan
View attachment 8012468
Sweet! Been waiting on one of these gems from someone! Ordered myself as well!
 
@dnchrist & @Yondering,

It’s the darn decapping/expansion rod and retainment mechanism. No matter how hard I try to secure the darn thing (I’ve literally started stripping the nut at this point…) it ends up shifting.

First time using LEE dies and won’t plan to use them again. Never an issue with other MFG with the threaded retainment method.

For now I’m decapping/expanding using a 338 Lapua die then sizing, trimming, turning, and resizing followed by a last plunge with the 338L.
I had the same issue. I literally too two wrenches (of correct size) and put one against my chest and pulled the other with both hands. . . not going anywhere!
 
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Just got my 8.6 12 inch remage build done have some hornady dies and when I size my hornady 6.5 brass I still have a tight bolt close I have ran the die way past touching shell holder to get enough shoulder bump but still tight bolt close could it b my hornady die or wat it’s a brand new defiance tenacity action and my gun smith headspace it with my faxon gauges also I have some hornady 285gr eldm bullets wat do y’all suggest starting a load out at for subs thinks
 
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Unfortunately gauges aren't always correct. And it could also be that your die just isn't sizing enough. So you have two options. You could unscrew the barrel nut on your remage and fit your barrel to the brass you are making. After all, headspace while it is established by a third party, it's really just the relationship between your brass and your chamber. As long as you never buy factory ammo, you will never know the difference. Your second option is to trim a little bit off the base of your die so that it does headspace to your chamber. Assuming that your barrel is headspaced correctly and the gauge your gunsmith used is correct, that would allow you to use factory ammo in the future.

I was thinking about seeing wat hornady thought maybe it might b a die issue if that’s the case I would just get a new set of dies
 
Unfortunately gauges aren't always correct. And it could also be that your die just isn't sizing enough. So you have two options. You could unscrew the barrel nut on your remage and fit your barrel to the brass you are making. After all, headspace while it is established by a third party, it's really just the relationship between your brass and your chamber. As long as you never buy factory ammo, you will never know the difference. Your second option is to trim a little bit off the base of your die so that it does headspace to your chamber. Assuming that your barrel is headspaced correctly and the gauge your gunsmith used is correct, that would allow you to use factory ammo in the future.
Just got my 8.6 12 inch remage build done have some hornady dies and when I size my hornady 6.5 brass I still have a tight bolt close I have ran the die way past touching shell holder to get enough shoulder bump but still tight bolt close could it b my hornady die or wat it’s a brand new defiance tenacity action and my gun smith headspace it with my faxon gauges also I have some hornady 285gr eldm bullets wat do y’all suggest starting a load out at for subs thinks
Hey Taylor, if you’re mounting a Remage barrel nut style barrel without a way to hold the barrel securely like in a modular barrel vice, you should put a piece of tape on the back of the go-gauge, then when you’re tightening the barrel nut the barrel turns slightly on it. It’s the nature of Remage setups.

When you tighten the barrel nut, are you doing it with the go-gauge in it? Unless you have a way to hold the action secure while tightening it you can’t leave the go-gauge in the chamber with the bolt locked in place so usually people are using a type of action rod or a modular barrel vice like the Short Action Customs type pictured below in a combo. If you need me to I can mount your barrel.
 

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My gunsmith did it for me I gave him both go and no go gauges he is a very well know gunsmith and we talked about the barrel slipping and stuff like that befor he did it also
Hey Taylor, if you’re mounting a Remage barrel nut style barrel without a way to hold the barrel securely like in a modular barrel vice, you should put a piece of tape on the back of the go-gauge, then when you’re tightening the barrel nut the barrel turns slightly on it. It’s the nature of Remage setups.

When you tighten the barrel nut, are you doing it with the go-gauge in it? Unless you have a way to hold the action secure while tightening it you can’t leave the go-gauge in the chamber with the bolt locked in place so usually people are using a type of action rod or a modular barrel vice like the Short Action Customs type pictured below in a combo. If you need me to I can mount your barrel.
 
My gunsmith did it for me I gave him both go and no go gauges he is a very well know gunsmith and we talked about the barrel slipping and stuff like that befor he did it also
Post some before and after measurements for both the fired and sized state of the brass base/shoulder/neck diameters and then the comparator reading for the shoulder set back.
If one of those numbers doesnt get smaller its your culprit.
 
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