Yeah but build to print is an industry term for a type of contracting practice.Fair enough. I would have used part to specs but yeah. But I still stand by my statement it’s far easier to manage the process doing it in house.
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Yeah but build to print is an industry term for a type of contracting practice.Fair enough. I would have used part to specs but yeah. But I still stand by my statement it’s far easier to manage the process doing it in house.
Knowing Paul's need for absolute perfection, I don't think there is anyone BUT Paul that can give him what he wants/needs.Fair enough. I would have used part to specs but yeah. But I still stand by my statement it’s far easier to manage the process doing it in house.
There's literally tens of thousands of us that can far exceed anything he could possibly need in this mechanism.Knowing Paul's need for absolute perfection, I don't think there is anyone BUT Paul that can give him what he wants/needs.
While this may not be ideal for customers and potential customers I do expect the powder system will be everything I have come to appreciate with the IP Trickler. He told me about three weeks ago of the machine delays and expected to be shipping units early November. I have a FX120i at the ready!
Possibly, but for a person who is driven to perfection, it is often easier to move forward when you control the supply chain and KNOW that everything is per spec. Just part of being a perfectionist, can drive others to a nervous breakdown but it allows them to move forward. Normally those outside the building don't know it is happeningThere's literally tens of thousands of us that can far exceed anything he could possible need in this mechanism.
I made an edit to my post.Possibly, but for a person who is driven to perfection, it is often easier to move forward when you control the supply chain and KNOW that everything is per spec. Just part of being a perfectionist, can drive others to a nervous breakdown but it allows them to move forward. Normally those outside the building don't know it is happening
Just to have every non-producer on a gun forum use the word in the wrong context for the way things fit together.Perfectionist designers should learn about and embrace tolerances. It'll make their lives easier and save them money.
Tens of thousands is probably a bit high but even if there are, how many can actually take on a low volume part and produce to spec? For many they can’t even be bothered, some say they will look at it and never give a quote, some will but the price is high, and others will give a decent price but the samples are shit and take a long time to get. This process has caused delays and much frustration for Paul. And I never pretended Paul was the only one capable but you somehow took offense. While this product does appear to be simple there are some fairly tight tolerances. The discs for example should be fairly simple yet if the sheets they are cut from aren’t perfectly flat then they don’t work. The laser that cuts them costs more than some peoples homes and is primarily used for medical equipment. Paul even stopped having the discs laser engraved because that even caused just enough distortion to be an issue.There's literally tens of thousands of us that can far exceed anything he could possibly need in this mechanism.
I understand wanting to maintain complete control of your product, but if you can't get it into the wild, you don't have much of a product.
To pretend someone is the only one capable of making something so simple highlights how ignorant to manufacturing most non-producers are.
Not sure Paul reads this, but Thank You! I really appreciate his attention to detail and dedication to the delivery of a spectacular product. I recognize I will be waiting for a while ( June order).Tens of thousands is probably a bit high but even if there are, how many can actually take on a low volume part and produce to spec? For many they can’t even be bothered, some say they will look at it and never give a quote, some will but the price is high, and others will give a decent price but the samples are shit and take a long time to get. This process has caused delays and much frustration for Paul. And I never pretended Paul was the only one capable but you somehow took offense. While this product does appear to be simple there are some fairly tight tolerances. The discs for example should be fairly simple yet if the sheets they are cut from aren’t perfectly flat then they don’t work. The laser that cuts them costs more than some peoples homes and is primarily used for medical equipment. Paul even stopped having the discs laser engraved because that even caused just enough distortion to be an issue.
It’s easy to say there are plenty of people capable but in practice it’s not that easy. I have seen a lot of what Paul has gone through with getting parts made and it’s incredibly frustrating.
I mean I’m prepared to put a cardboard box around the mfker if the draft shield is wonky.Boy, with this much destruction of good will, God help him if his system needs shims or a JThor tip, people will lose their fucking minds
I know this will really make your day. I agree 100% that Paul is out to outdo every other powder metering system available.On the subject of “perfectionism”….this is a high end, expensive, powder drop system for…yeah, perfectionist reloaders. Anything short of stellar performance, fit, and finish would be met derision by many in this thread. Complaining about delays.
He ain’t trying to make a MatchMaster…or even an AT V4 (and don’t even whisper Super Trickler). See what I’m saying.
...Boy, with this much destruction of good will, God help him if his system needs shims or a JThor tip, people will lose their fucking minds
As long as the IP trickler works as well or better than the current iteration I don't foresee an issue. The powder dropper just has to drop the bulk charge so as long as it's fairly consistent the trickler is what is ultimately giving the desired final accuracy.Boy, with this much destruction of good will, God help him if his system needs shims or a JThor tip, people will lose their fucking minds
This is the issue with a lot of small manufacturers/inventors. Coming up with a product is one thing, the whole process of preparing and bringing it to market is a whole lot more difficult. The IP trickler outdoes anything I've seen on the market for quality of design and particularly the manufacture. Getting boxes on the shelves ready to ship, particularly while self funding the development and manufacturing is a substantial risk. I'm impressed seeing a product that is coming to market without taking pre-payments and then using that to cover the risk. If it takes longer, then it takes longer, no-one is out of pocket.I was partly joking
There is always a risk, though, that when the average Joe Bumblefucks get their paws on it en masse, any small flaw or idiosyncrasy will be revealed and widely complained about
So far it appears only fanboys have tested it
And people are expecting perfection
Sounds like either a design flaw that should have been corrected long ago or some serious operator error when it comes to running the laser engraver if you're warping the disks that badly just by engraving them.The discs for example should be fairly simple yet if the sheets they are cut from aren’t perfectly flat then they don’t work. The laser that cuts them costs more than some peoples homes and is primarily used for medical equipment. Paul even stopped having the discs laser engraved because that even caused just enough distortion to be an issue.
Sounds like either a design flaw that should have been corrected long ago or some serious operator error when it comes to running the laser engraver if you're warping the disks that badly just by engraving them.
Similar disk-type trickler designs work just fine even using 3D printed discs and cups that are, comparatively speaking, roughly equivalent in accuracy in terms of the exterior radius/slot dimensions but generally much less flat across the bottom of the disk than a metal disk that's been laser cut out of flat metal sheet stock material. In fact, warping in the horizontal plane is one of the main issues that thin 3D printed parts (such as this kind of disk) face.
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Hint: the intended orientation of the kernels and the balance of slot shape vs disk clearance makes a big difference in how tolerant the disk + cup combo are to both the dimensional accuracy of the disk and how flat the disk is/isn't. If your disk isn't working because you used a laser engraver it means you've chosen a combination of those two factors that is far more sensitive to variance than it needs to be.
I literally made a disk trickler myself, the only people making wild claims about tolerances are folks who have not made the disks themselves before. It's quite funny though that you like to make wild claims about, "You may not understand the design" to a guy who quite literally posted video proof he understands the design just fine with a successful replication of the primary design concept.I disagree, you have no idea how tight the tolerances need to be. And as you have never actually seen one and how the parts interact to cal it a design flaw is stupid. You may not understand the design and you may have seen other designs that do it differently but lacking any insight you cannot form a valid basis of comparison. If you have ever designed a complex system of parts you would understand that slapping together a group of loose parts does not generally result in a precision solution.
Cool when I see yours making a play for this space, then I will take it back. We are not taking about a chargemaster here. Your design may work, Paul's also will be spectacular. Would I buy yours for a buck maybe, but I will stick with someone with a proven track record. Yes it is proven as the trickler happens to be the standard in the sport!I literally made a disk trickler myself, the only people making wild claims about tolerances are folks who have not made the disks themselves before. It's quite funny though that you like to make wild claims about, "You may not understand the design" to a guy who quite literally posted video proof he understands the design just fine with a successful replication of the primary design concept.
Anybody pretending that the tolerances are so tight that laser engraving would affect it is talking straight out of their ass, or if that's true then the design is shit and in need of serious rework because it does not need to be that sensitive.
Probably more of an issue of getting the laser done properly. My Smith buddy has a laser so I'm familiar with it. It can be very difficult to get some of these guys to test enough and make sure they aren't going to deep and creating too much heat with the laser. There's a lot od heat created doing it.I literally made a disk trickler myself, the only people making wild claims about tolerances are folks who have not made the disks themselves before. It's quite funny though that you like to make wild claims about, "You may not understand the design" to a guy who quite literally posted video proof he understands the design just fine with a successful replication of the primary design concept.
Anybody pretending that the tolerances are so tight that laser engraving would affect it is talking straight out of their ass, or if that's true then the design is shit and in need of serious rework because it does not need to be that sensitive.
You can have a series of loose fitting parts that are very tightly toleranced and require very high precision to create.I disagree, you have no idea how tight the tolerances need to be. And as you have never actually seen one and how the parts interact to cal it a design flaw is stupid. You may not understand the design and you may have seen other designs that do it differently but lacking any insight you cannot form a valid basis of comparison. If you have ever designed a complex system of parts you would understand that slapping together a group of loose parts does not generally result in a precision solution.
true, each part is precisely made but the system is a loose assembly. This is wonderful for some uses, but, and there is always a but, it will not be successful in handling a single kernel or rod of powder and moving it to the end. The dimensions are too small and variations too large. This would result in too many over-weight charges and or move too slow to satisfy the intended audience. Individual parts held to high precision are one thing, understanding how the stack-up of the gaps and tolerances affects the attainment of the desired goal is another.You can have a series of loose fitting parts that are very tightly toleranced and require very high precision to create.
When Tyler at MKM was still in the steel target business (got too costly to produce and ship them, as I understand), he had plates that had a grid laser engraved on it so you could measure group size. Every one of those I had cracked along those laser etched lines. An aspirin tablet is scored more than that, but it still weakened the targets right there and they came apart like in little rectangles like a graham cracker after a while. Which I guess he should have known, that's the reason he had them cut with water jet. Live and learn.Probably more of an issue of getting the laser done properly. My Smith buddy has a laser so I'm familiar with it. It can be very difficult to get some of these guys to test enough and make sure they aren't going to deep and creating too much heat with the laser. There's a lot od heat created doing it.
It is clear that you lack an understanding of both of these things.Individual parts held to high precision are one thing, understanding how the stack-up of the gaps and tolerances affects the attainment of the desired goal is another.
When your design hits the market we will let the market decide if it is a better solution. also if yours is so wonderful, why are you even here? obviously either you just want to hear yourself jabber or you really don't even believe your own drivel. Either way, don't go away mad, just go away!It is clear that you lack an understanding of both of these things.
You can have parts that fit together smoothly and easily by hand, "loose" as you might describe it, which convey only a single kernel of powder at a time. So long as the stacked tolerances for the disk and cup allows allow one kernel to fit into a slot, but never allow two kernels to a slot or kernels between the disk and cup outside of the slots (at least not by the time you go to drop the individual kernels), you will not inherently affect precision by having a tighter or looser fitment between disk and cup.
All the slot has to do is gather a single kernel and push it around the edge to the drop point. This task can be accomplished by a slot with more depth to encompass the entire kernel alongside a disk that fits tightly to the edge of the cup, and that task can also be accomplished by a slot with less depth (encompassing only little more than half the cross-section of the kernel) alongside looser fitment between the disk and cup.
Both general design methods accomplish the goal of conveying one single kernel at a time to the drop point, but the required tolerances for disk, slot, and cup are different depending on which route you choose to take. This is the balance between slot shape and disk clearance I talked about in my initial comment, which makes a large difference in how sensitive the design is to variations between individual parts.
I was hoping we weren't going to see you back here until the units ship in Februaryhttps://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/autothrow-v3.7235392/
v3 for sale for one of you looking (not mine)
I was hoping we weren't going to see you back here until the units ship in February
I was hoping not. You have a shitty personality.You think I’m not gonna come back multiple times to tell you I told you so before February???
I was hoping not. You have a shitty personality.
I'm trying to discourage you from posting. Letting you know that no one likes to hear from you. It's also why I told you that your personality sucks. We all know ourselves. Our personality and character flaws. But as humans that rationalize to protect our egos we have a way of ignoring those little voices in the back of our heads. So I'm eliminating any doubt for you. You are annoying on just about every thread you post on. That isn't paranoia. It's real.Yet, you engaged with me again for no reason when I’m trying to help someone out. Odd take….
I'm trying to discourage you from posting. Letting you know that no one likes to hear from you. It's also why I told you that your personality sucks. We all know ourselves. Our personality and character flaws. But as humans that rationalize to protect our egos we have a way of ignoring those little voices in the back of our heads. So I'm eliminating any doubt for you. You are annoying on just about every thread you post on. That isn't paranoia. It's real.
If you think you have some information or wisdom that can be helpful to other people then try selectively providing it at the right time and place, with humility, instead of just being a total jackass on 9 out of 10 threads you post on. Otherwise, talking about your prowess in the reloading room, I just take that as your ego coming out again. -> shitty personality.I made a new friend - Nice to meet you.
the personal attacks make you look kind of pathetic, especially when I was just helping someone find a v3.
Pm me if you need any reloading advice and I’ll help you out.
If you think you have some information or wisdom that can be helpful to other people then try selectively providing it at the right time and place, with humility, instead of just being a total jackass on 9 out of 10 threads you post on. Otherwise, talking about your prowess in the reloading room, I just take that as your ego coming out again. -> shitty personality.
This is televangelist level of hypocrisy. Are you okay?
I'm over 100 days and pretty irritated about selling my v4 based on the website's 45-day estimate (that he still hasn't changed even after updating the pre-orders) , and Paul didn't really seem to care until I sent multiple emails after he ignored my first 3-4. This doesn't feel like a long-term sustainable path......... and I decided not to get the full tricolor because of it.
And the vague "they will all be caught up next month" wasn't reassuring as an answer.
Pauls a good guy he called me and is going to help me get back to reloading again soon.
Why don't you have some grace...by S'ingTFU. You have something to reload with. You haven't paid anything for a preorder. The guy that helped you get back into the reloading room is the same guy that you're now shit talking, again.This thing is BADASS!!! it’s so much better than my v4 ever thought about being.
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Why don't you have some grace...by S'ingTFU. You have something to reload with. You haven't paid anything for a preorder. The guy that helped you get back into the reloading room is the same guy that you're now shit talking, again.
I guess since throwing a tantrum worked for you previously, you just keep doing it. You're why people shouldn't cater to whining.
Shoulda let it sizzle just a bit longer, create a real panick^^^^
JUST FUNNIN’, I DIDN'T GET NO EMAIL, but then again, I’m patiently waiting and it’ll come when it comes….
Just thought I’d get some people’s hearts to drop and get their hopes up, hope everyone has a great weekend
They eventually have to start one at a time don’t you think? Like first guy gets an email and as they start to come off the line and then so on as they get finished.Shoulda let it sizzle just a bit longer, create a real panick
Should make it where each person get only one part of the device so everyone has to play nice and combine the parts and figure out scheduling. The sound of heads popping would be deafeningThey eventually have to start one at a time don’t you think? Like first guy gets an email and as they start to come off the line and then so on as they get finished.