I’m using MDT but Accurate AICS is what’s recommended quite a bit.
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223 Ackley Improved
- Thread starter Huckleberry75
- Start date
What’s the word from Starline so far? I don’t have the vertical fractures that you have, but that case separation midway up the body is exactly what I’m getting with 69SMKs through 88ELDMs using CFE. I’ve tried adjusting charge weights up and down during fireforming, and every time I get what I’ve started calling a “speed bump” right where the case eventually separates. I’m really interested in what they have to say.
My brass is 2 different lots of Starline that were bought within the last year or so.
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Loaded up some 69 TMKs with Varget for my 20 inch AR.
27.1 gns of Varget fills the case about half way up the shoulder. 69 TMK seated to mag length are going about 2950 with a single digit SD. Accuracy for a 10 shot group at 100 is just over 5/8.
Rifle length gas with an adjustable gas block and TBAC Dominus suppressor.
Note to self. When you set the OAL with a steel 20 round mag, remember to check that these will still fit in a Magpul plastic mag.
27.1 gns of Varget fills the case about half way up the shoulder. 69 TMK seated to mag length are going about 2950 with a single digit SD. Accuracy for a 10 shot group at 100 is just over 5/8.
Rifle length gas with an adjustable gas block and TBAC Dominus suppressor.
Note to self. When you set the OAL with a steel 20 round mag, remember to check that these will still fit in a Magpul plastic mag.
Sounds like they had a known bad batch of brass (from 2021), so would've hoped they replaced it.
This is the only brass issue I've heard of from Starline, so hopefully it was a one off as I'm going to try get starline brass for my 223AI (if the barrel ever turns up....).
There's a heap of Starline brass in stock at the wholesaler last I checked
If its taking too long Hardy make a good .224 barrel
If its taking too long Hardy make a good .224 barrel
Re-validated my 223AI load using Berger 80gn VLDs, 25.5gn ADI2208 (Varget). Getting approximately 2906fps at the muzzle.
Out of curiosity, has anyone played/experimented with or found a decent load using the Berger 85.5gn LR Hybrids in 223AI?
There is a decent availability of them local to me and was hoping there may be some experience in terms of starting loads or even optimal loads.
There is a decent availability of them local to me and was hoping there may be some experience in terms of starting loads or even optimal loads.
I think the 80 Berger’s would be a better fit but I know some people run the 88 eld’s. I’m sure you could make them work.
I'm glad you posted this. I was about to order some. I have had great luck with starline in 308 and 708.
Have you tried other brands of brass? Is it possible your chamber is oversized? I have run hundreds of starline brass forming into 223ai without issues.
Have tried the 85.5 LR Hybrids with a bit of success. Unfortunately no velocity data groups and loads looking good. I think I’ll be getting some more of these for longer ranges.
Fellas, I finally quelled a nag I couldn't get rid of so I bought a .223 Zermatt action. My 'smith will mate it to a Mullerworks 1/7 at 26". I'm giving serious consideration to an ackley improved. Most of my shooting will be at 550 but my range does go to a 1000. If I go with the AI, my intent will be to shoot factory Lapua bullets to begin fire-forming. I understand the brass may need 2 firings to complete FF. If that is the case, how do I set up my FL sizing die (use to to just neck size?)? Thanks,
@YamaS3rider
I have a 24" 223 and a 22 and 26" 223AI. To me, inside of 600, the difference isn't very noticeable. The 223AI impacts on steel at 1K are definitely bigger and louder.
The smith who did my 22", cut the chamber so it uses the neck/shoulder junction on 223 brass as a false shoulder. I just load normal 223 and shoot. The 26" barrel does not have this feature, so I load the 223 rounds long to make sure the bullet touches the lands. This keeps the round against the boltface during firing.
For fireforming- I use annealed brass, typically Lake City or Lapua, and a full load of fast powder- N133 or H322. Loading after that is very accurate. My 22" gun came with a 1/4 MOA guarantee and it will do it with the once fireformed brass.
On edit: 223AI seems inherently more accurate to me. I can try different powder with larger weight spreads, and the velocity remains more stable than 223.
I have a 24" 223 and a 22 and 26" 223AI. To me, inside of 600, the difference isn't very noticeable. The 223AI impacts on steel at 1K are definitely bigger and louder.
The smith who did my 22", cut the chamber so it uses the neck/shoulder junction on 223 brass as a false shoulder. I just load normal 223 and shoot. The 26" barrel does not have this feature, so I load the 223 rounds long to make sure the bullet touches the lands. This keeps the round against the boltface during firing.
For fireforming- I use annealed brass, typically Lake City or Lapua, and a full load of fast powder- N133 or H322. Loading after that is very accurate. My 22" gun came with a 1/4 MOA guarantee and it will do it with the once fireformed brass.
On edit: 223AI seems inherently more accurate to me. I can try different powder with larger weight spreads, and the velocity remains more stable than 223.
This is their 5.56 brass. They say they change the metallurgy of the bottom half as compared to their 223rem brass.
Yes I have tried Lapua, Federal, PPU. All with same or greater loads. No issues.
Gonna grab a bag of Starline's 223 brass from Cabela's next time I'm there.
*Edit: Also tried Winchester and LC with no problems.
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0.369" on virgin brass
0.370" on fired non-split brass
both measured ¼" from the base.
Roughly a 150 FPS MV increase.
Case stretch is greatly reduced.
My observations are that the 223AI is inherently more accurate than the 223.
I’ve got 5-6 firings on this batch of Lapua brass and haven’t needed to trim it yet
I've got the AI itch.
Reasons - I've got a ton of 88s and like how they kill deer (I don't care if they're slow) and I want 22-24” velocity out of an 18" suppressed barrel. I don't need the big dog creed, etc. 2600-2700 out of an 88 and 280-2900 out of a 75 is plenty.
Tired of paying stupid money for Lapua and alpha brass. gimme range pickup and lee dies baby
Reasons - I've got a ton of 88s and like how they kill deer (I don't care if they're slow) and I want 22-24” velocity out of an 18" suppressed barrel. I don't need the big dog creed, etc. 2600-2700 out of an 88 and 280-2900 out of a 75 is plenty.
Tired of paying stupid money for Lapua and alpha brass. gimme range pickup and lee dies baby
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I’m getting ready to cut my 223ai down to 18 as well. Miss my 16” I had. While they are at it I’m going to have my 223 proof barrel punched out to AI as well. There really is no down side.
I’ve got my own project in the works. I can’t speak about the 88eld-M but the std .223 Ackley Imp reamer has a F/B of .0619 so it can seat a 80SMK 2.45 oal.
Two different bullets and loads. The barrel is accurate. Anything holding it back is me the shooter, not the barrel.
I’ve got a uni-throater in 223 and 6mm. I cut to fit my needs.
I recommend having them hand throat it. Measure your magazines, figure out your desired OAL. Measure your ogive at that desired OAL, and that will give you a rough idea of what your freebore should be to support your desired ogive distance.
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I have had good experience with the 80gr ELD-M projectile set at a COAL of 2.45”. Rifle has a 26” 1-7tw Preferred Barrel Blanks barrel.
1) Ramshot Tac 25.5gr with Rem 7 1/2 primer
- 5 shot avg of 2972 fps
- ES 7.9
- SD 3.0
2) Winchester 748 26.0gr with Rem 7 1/2 primer
- 5 shot avg of 2920 fps
- ES 15.1
- SD 5.4
3) Hodgdon Varget 25.5gr with CCI 400 primer
- 5 shot avg of 2904 fps
- ES 15.8
- SD 5.9
1) Ramshot Tac 25.5gr with Rem 7 1/2 primer
- 5 shot avg of 2972 fps
- ES 7.9
- SD 3.0
2) Winchester 748 26.0gr with Rem 7 1/2 primer
- 5 shot avg of 2920 fps
- ES 15.1
- SD 5.4
3) Hodgdon Varget 25.5gr with CCI 400 primer
- 5 shot avg of 2904 fps
- ES 15.8
- SD 5.9
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Picked up my PVA barrel the other day and worked on break in / fireforming brass this weekend. I've mostly been using handloaed Lake City brass with cheapo 62 gr FMJ which don't group for sh*t. But, here's 5 shots in .335" @100 yd with factory ELD-M. I can't wait to get enough brass formed to work up a real Ackley load with quality match bullets. Any suggestions for bullets to try?
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I think 75 eldms are the best combo for BC speed and easy to load for.
I’m getting excellent results with Berger 80.5gn FB and 26gn of Varget out of a 26” 1:7 twist barrel 2935fps
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More factory 223 Rem through my PVA 223 AI barrel. This time, Norma Golden Target 69 gr HPBT, shooting 5 shots into 0.319 MOA at 100 yds and 3 shots into 0.128 MOA at 200yds. I now have ~175 pieces of fire formed brass and the barrel should be broken in. Looking forward to load development with fully-formed AI cases. Thank you @bohem for this SWEET barrel and ARC/Ted @karagias for the CDG action and Xylo chassis!
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I guess I missed a few pages, but has everyone that was running a CDG figured out the feeding issues?
