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223 Ackley Improved
- Thread starter Huckleberry75
- Start date
I have a FL Redding .22BR die like that. Sanded a few thou off the shell holder and made it work. But you’re sorta screwed with a Co-ax in that department.
I gotta say, after years of reading about Redding awesomeness, after buying a few of their products, I’d rather take my chances with RCBS (or even LEE!).
I gotta say, after years of reading about Redding awesomeness, after buying a few of their products, I’d rather take my chances with RCBS (or even LEE!).
Yea I’m going to run them in the die to get the necks resized to hold a bullet. Go fire them again and see what they measure. If they are the same I’ll get the die milled down.
A lot of the time ackleys are chambered what is probably .002" or so short so the neck/shoulder junction jams slightly in the chamber to hold the base of the case against the bolt face so they fire form properly. Mine could do with a skim off the bottom of the die as well, it bumps the shoulder a touch when sizing but doesn't cam over smoothly in the press. There's no problem machining a touch off the bottom of the die, the lead in chamfer is big enough that it won't affect anything. You could do the same to the top of the shell holder.
When my smith chambered my Ackley, he measured the headspace incorrectly. I had trouble resizing the cases with a Redding AI die. Thinking the die was off, I sent it to Redding, who informed me the chamber was cut incorrectly. The smith offered to redo the job, but even though it was off a few thousandths it formed ok and shot great. I contacted Whidden and sent them 5 fired cases. They made a resizing die for me and explained that it could easily be adjusted for a correct chamber in a new barrel. FWIW the rifle is very accurate and I don’t feel it had been compromised by being off a bit.
Is there a "best" twist and Freebore for either 223 or 223AI for use with the 75-90gr bullets?
It looks like 1:7 is probably the most common, but I'm seeing 1:8, 1:7.75, 1:7.5 and 1:7.
Freebore seems to be even harder to determine.
The .169 looked to be popular when I last researched 88s in a standard 223, but it might not give the best performance with 75s.
You also might start running into issues with mag length if you want to get near the lands.
It looks like 1:7 is probably the most common, but I'm seeing 1:8, 1:7.75, 1:7.5 and 1:7.
Freebore seems to be even harder to determine.
The .169 looked to be popular when I last researched 88s in a standard 223, but it might not give the best performance with 75s.
You also might start running into issues with mag length if you want to get near the lands.
1:7 seems to do the job fine with no real downside. I just made a dummy round as long as I could squeeze into a magazine and the throat is reamed to suit. I'm not sure of what the actual freebore measurement is though. Thats an 80 and 88 ELD-M in the photo below just off the lands. I had to notch the feed ramp slightly to get the 88 to feed.
This is exactly what I was wondering. I can't say why but I have a similar experience as Kadams. I use either Winchester or Lapua brass and anneal every firing. In my case, I use a Co-Ax and my Redding bushing sizer will not bump the shoulders yet they don't grow any either. That stated, it doesn't matter as they chamber without any tightness with the firing pin removed (Stiller TAC30 action, Bartlein 7T chambered by Longriflesinc). So it's a non-issue for me.
Check some cases first and see if they'll chamber. If you have a Remington type ejector, it can be a little bit of a pain removing it but I always remove the firing pin and ejector when I set up my dies. I like for the bolt to drop without any help but just barely. With my particular set of Redding dies for the 223AI, I have the die screwed down to where it touches the shell plate but doesn't mash the shell plate down.
I might have mentioned this in a earlier post but if you are ordering a barrel I suggest getting a .219 bore instead of .218. I got this info from a F-class shooter on another forum who has shot a ton of 223 with heavy bullets. He found out that the .219's were just as precise as .218 and he didn't have near the problems of bullets shedding jackets that he did before.
Also might consider lower profile rifling, less intrusive to the jacket, what like .001 less???
The slowest twist rate you can get away with also helps protect against shedding jackets. Personally I'd go for 7.5 and stay with 80's or that 85.5 Berger.
I say this because I had a 10 twist 243 that shot 105gr bullets good at distance and my 6.5 Saum shoots 150gr bullets great with a 9 twist.
But going with faster twists like 9 twist in a 20 cal and 7 twist in my 223AI didn't work as I wanted.
Man I don't know why I had the problems I did with 88's and a 7 twist but the combo didn't work. The 75's however worked fine.
Also might consider lower profile rifling, less intrusive to the jacket, what like .001 less???
The slowest twist rate you can get away with also helps protect against shedding jackets. Personally I'd go for 7.5 and stay with 80's or that 85.5 Berger.
I say this because I had a 10 twist 243 that shot 105gr bullets good at distance and my 6.5 Saum shoots 150gr bullets great with a 9 twist.
But going with faster twists like 9 twist in a 20 cal and 7 twist in my 223AI didn't work as I wanted.
Man I don't know why I had the problems I did with 88's and a 7 twist but the combo didn't work. The 75's however worked fine.
The freebore I asked Longriflesinc for mine was .050". It was short (the throat) but has worked well. I typically shoot the Berger 80 VLD but will shoot the 80.5 and 82 grain Berger's. I do jam the VLD .010". 25.5 grains of either Varget or Re15 and 450 primers. I haven't lost a Lapua case from primer pockets yet (7 firings) but the Winchester cases get 5 as a 223AI and you can tell it's time.
What I get a kick from is I can watch my trace when the conditions are right. My barrel is 27.5" in a RV taper and it has a Longriflesinc brake and the rifle is a fatty. I haven't fired it with a suppressor yet but that's just because I've been playing with other rifles for a couple years.
What I get a kick from is I can watch my trace when the conditions are right. My barrel is 27.5" in a RV taper and it has a Longriflesinc brake and the rifle is a fatty. I haven't fired it with a suppressor yet but that's just because I've been playing with other rifles for a couple years.
Prometheus action came in and K&P barrel should be here in January. The action is unbelievably nice.
Barrel will be 28” finished length, 1:7 twist, and .219 bore. Chamber will be a .155fb and the goal will be to get 85.5, 88s, or 90SMKs up to 2850-2900 while feeding reliably from modified AICS mags.
Powder will be 4895. Hoping for more updates early next year.
Barrel will be 28” finished length, 1:7 twist, and .219 bore. Chamber will be a .155fb and the goal will be to get 85.5, 88s, or 90SMKs up to 2850-2900 while feeding reliably from modified AICS mags.
Powder will be 4895. Hoping for more updates early next year.
I have a Criterion 223AI Barrel and Origin Action being delivered next week. I have a bunch of once fired regular 223 reloads with 75 eldm’s in Lapua Brass shot in a Semi Custom Tikka w/ a Bartlein Barrel. Any real downside to using the once fired rounds in the 223AI to fire form them vs virgin brass? I’ll most likely sell the Tikka
Are you suppose to start the minimum charge weight of the parent cartridge? Picked up 8# of varget and some 80 Eldm.
What is everyone using for dies?
Looks like Redding and Lee are the only 2 OTS options, and I’ve seen a number of issues with the Redding bois.
Is Lee really it? Custom? Hard pass on the SAC.
Looks like Redding and Lee are the only 2 OTS options, and I’ve seen a number of issues with the Redding bois.
Is Lee really it? Custom? Hard pass on the SAC.
You can load a minimum charge if you wish but a standard 223 will probably work better. You want that case fireformed as much as possible the first firing (though I tend to get a completely fireformed case on the second firing). As others mentioned, I see very good accuracy when fireforming. I will load either a 77 grain SMK or 73 grain Berger BT with whatever charge I usually load in 223 and enjoy the process.
My dies are the $$$ Redding bushing FL sizer and micrometer seater. I bought them used but they appeared to be new.
I had Whidden make a custom die, honed the neck to match the chamber diameter. Very pleased with their work.
Kadams1563, sorry I am late to this show, as you have probably solved your problem. But I had the exact same results in my CDG, 223AI. I had to have a local smith shave a few thousands (sorry I don't recall how many) off the bottom of my Redding bushing die to get it to bump the shoulders.
My fired brass would not chamber without bumping the shoulders. I have since ordered a custom Whidden die, but I haven't sized any brass with it yet.
Also, I use a Forster Coax press. (love it!)
Good luck and Merry Christmas !
Thanks for your reply.
So I ran the brass through the die and they GREW .002. Fired them and they went back to the original size lol. Very odd but I’ll be taking my die to a buddy to have him shave it down.
The sized brass chambers but it’s not extremely light on close and you can tell there is pressure.
I tried the reddings could not get them to work, I'm using a co ax, I sent 3 fired cases to whidden and my problem was solved, but it cost me 230$
I had to do the same.. Redding sizer needed to be trimmed in order to bump shoulder.
I have the same thing going. Redding f/l bushing and competition shell holders not able to size (.002").
Ground an old standard shell holder as a temporary fix.. I read somewhere the Lee f/l sizer works fine.
Ground an old standard shell holder as a temporary fix.. I read somewhere the Lee f/l sizer works fine.
I have never tried the 400 but the 450 works well.
Federal GM205AR (AR Match) shoot well also but I only tried a small batch.
Federal GM205AR (AR Match) shoot well also but I only tried a small batch.
I don't know about "most", but yes anyway.
IME, a 400 is more or less the same as a 550. In 300 Blackout, 357 Magnum/327 Federal revolvers, I would use the 400’s and 550's interchangeably (but not for my higher pressure 223AI or Grendel's).
In my one 223AI, I want a hard cup as my loads tend to shoot better when they are on the warm side. 450's, 7 1/2's, or Wolf SRM (as long as they last) only. I could be happy using only 450's but the Wolf primers shoot so good and I still have a bunch. Got to seat those Wolf hard though.
I use 400’s for all my 223 and 223AI loads. I have never had a pierced primer or problem. I have 7 1/2, 450, BR4, Wolf SRM and Wolf 556M’s. They all work, but I get the smallest SD’s with the 400’s and Wolf 556M’s, the 556M’s are regulated to my Dasher. I have enough for my current barrel, sad day when they’re gone.
I dunno
But I took .004 off the bottom of the die with no change. Gonna do anything .004 and see if I can bump shoulders with that.
I've peirced 400's in 223 and 6.5cm. If you are chasing velocity, start with a mag primer.
I'm using BR4's in mine. SD's are single digit and I've never had a primer issue. The firing pin hole is bushed for a .062" firing pin as well.
Another .006 taken off and no change. Still can’t bump shoulders. I’ll take another .004-.006 in a few days.I dunno
But I took .004 off the bottom of the die with no change. Gonna do anything .004 and see if I can bump shoulders with that.
As I stated previously, I had the same problem where a Redding Body die would not touch the shoulder. Whidden made a custom die which works fine and is ok for future correct chambers.I dunno
But I took .004 off the bottom of the die with no change. Gonna do anything .004 and see if I can bump shoulders with that.
According to the smith picking the point when reaming the AI chamber to gauge the headspace off is different than a standard chambering. I don’t know if that is true or not, above my pay grade, but that was his explanation.
Well. 4 of us are using Redding .223 AI does but I am the only one having issues but I’m also the only one who is using a co-ax.
As mine, your chamber isn’t correct. I’d consider casting it with Cerrosafe, and compare it to your reamer print or SAAMI dimensions (if SAAMI exists for the AI). Then hopefully you can figure this problem out.
No, I only use a Co-Ax for sizing. Way back in this thread I mentioned mine 223AI bushing FL sizer has never bumped the shoulder (that I can measure anyway) but the cases chamber with no resistance. I have no real idea why we get no bump with the Redding FL sizers but if I was a betting man I'd have lost money on your sizer die after you chopped it down.
Just as a test, remove your decapping pin/expander and run a couple of cases through and see where you end up measurement-wise.I dunno
But I took .004 off the bottom of the die with no change. Gonna do anything .004 and see if I can bump shoulders with that.
No decapper or expander in the die. I universal deprime and mandrel size for neck tension.
I’ll just keep chopping the die down in bits until it bumps shoulders. Lol
I'm sure you will but keep us updated. My set up works fine as it is yet I'm curious when your set up will start to bump the shoulders on your brass.
I’m running 75 amax with h4895 at 3103 fps.
Works real good on coyotes.
I'm not sure I've ever used H4895 in my 223AI and I have a bunch. I use either Varget or Re15 with my lot of Re15 acting a touch faster than my Varget. I may have to try it.
H4895 has yielded great results with the 75-77gn projectiles I have tried in my 223AI
