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.308 Winchester
- Thread starter Two Shoes
- Start date
You haven't experienced life if you've never owned some version of an M1A
You haven't experienced life if you've never owned some version of an M1A
My first rifle love was behind an M1A. I greatly treasure mine! Particuarly after a trigger service done by Fulton Armory, with a new hooded rear sight. Just feed em' 168 Smk's behind 41.5gr of Imr-4895. Shoots better than I can with iron sights.
My newest venture next weekend (Pala / Oceanside CA rifle range) will be 185 Berger VLD hunters with 43.0 +/- .2 of Varget with new Alpha brass. Remington 700 with a fitted @PVA M24 barrel with a McMilan A1 stock in woodland camo, 2 stage David tubbs trigger and SWFA 10x. It's a rifle build that I'm super stoked to have.
Stby for results.
Just curious, but why the 185 VLD over the Juggernaut?My first rifle love was behind an M1A. I greatly treasure mine! Particuarly after a trigger service done by Fulton Armory, with a new hooded rear sight. Just feed em' 168 Smk's behind 41.5gr of Imr-4895. Shoots better than I can with iron sights.
My newest venture next weekend (Pala / Oceanside CA rifle range) will be 185 Berger VLD hunters with 43.0 +/- .2 of Varget with new Alpha brass. Remington 700 with a fitted @PVA M24 barrel with a McMilan A1 stock in woodland camo, 2 stage David tubbs trigger and SWFA 10x. It's a rifle build that I'm super stoked to have.
Stby for results.
Simply a matter of supply/demand *edit and over ambition to push my LR shooting skills within the .Tree Oh Eight Winnie's maximum supersonic ranges and beyond. Couldn't find any Juggernauts in stock. The 175 VLDs shoot well in my rifle(still need to find optimal seating depth). So, I figured.....Lets try some 185s!?
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I didn't go back through the entire thread. I like pictures. Maybe this will give some folks ideas for different loads:
Match Kings and Tipped Match Kings:
168, 169, and 175 Match Kings:
Match Kings and Tipped Match Kings:
168, 169, and 175 Match Kings:
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Tried the new 174 gr VT from Hornady with N140
44.3gr gave 2550fps and 45gr gave 2600 in a 24" Tikka Rambo with factory barrel. 2.800 oal.
Using .289 G7 to 2100fps and .275 slower seemed to work pretty well
44.3gr gave 2550fps and 45gr gave 2600 in a 24" Tikka Rambo with factory barrel. 2.800 oal.
Using .289 G7 to 2100fps and .275 slower seemed to work pretty well
I bought 100 a while back just to try but haven't shot enough factory ammo to have brass lol.
Hopefully soon I'll be able to post up. I have Tac, varget, and blc2.
Would love to see varget. I haven't seen hornady load any 308 ammo yet. I have a feeling given the bearing surface it's going to be slower than comparable 175s.
I mean, I had a remington 700 5R back in the day cut to 20" running hornady 178gr BTHP at 2630 with 45.3gr of varget. I think you'll be fine I would just expect it to be slower comparably speaking to most 175gr bullets. Think like 7mm 180gr ELD-M vs the 180gr hybrid. The ELD-M is almost always considerably slower from what I've seen on the 7 sherman short threads. I've been running the ELD-M at 2900 for a couple of years now but that's pushing it.
CC is claiming 2580 out of a 24" tube
I have a 22.5 shilen and a 25.5 unknown manufacturer custom barrel. If I get to trying, it'll be on the 22.5.
Hopefully I can break 2600
This pretty much a ctrl+c with whatever works for the 175/178 club
Back off a grain and a half or whatever and get close to your reasonable speed for barrel length
Back off a grain and a half or whatever and get close to your reasonable speed for barrel length
The action will take it, until it doesn't.
Yes, with hybrid cases Bartlein 22" 9 twist, but longer single load COAL. 215 gr Bergers will go 2579 fps. But Berger 208 grs at 2634 was more consistent and more accurate in my rifle.
230 gr SMK at 2500 fps in the 22" is accurate.
Been running 200 gr SMK at 2740 in Lapua brass for several yrs in the 9 twist, 22", and 2670 fps n the 18"
And same load 2856 fps in the 30" 8 twist heavy palma long action, 230 gr Atip 2620 fps, 225 gr ELDM 2675 fps. Lapua LR primed cases.
Hybrid cases and 30" barrel will get more speed, and reach 4000 ft/ lbs of muzzle energy in a 308 case.
Safe? Seems to be in my rifles...only have QL to judge approximate pressures.
But not as insane as the ultimate reloader video...I'm not going there.
And Varget is not the powder to get you there, at anything close to safely as shown.
For 200 gr and under Alliant 2000MR, for 208 and up 6.5 Stabal.
Here's the load data, but these are loaded in hybrid Stainles steel case heads designed to run at 80,000 psi.
Maybe 2.5 to 3 grs less would be your maximum in Lapua Brass. Hybrid cases have more case capacity.
For your information SR Palma brass is 40 fps slower with the same charge as LR primered Lapua brass...plus here it had higher S/D and less accuracy, so I use LR primed Lapua brass with hesvy powder charges.
I don't run the Hybrids to the full 80,000 psi high but leave some for a safety margin, according to QL.
With these cases the 155s are shot at 3100 168 at 2940 from the 22" barrel of a Rem 700, 9 twist 5 R Bartlein barrel 308.
Don't do this at home still applies, the average reloader, or just a velocity hound will get into trouble with standard brass long before they reach these velocities.
Barrels, chambers, reloading practices all play a part in adding or reducing pressure.
Hybrid cases will help but you have to make them, and neck turn them.
Not just throw a bunch of powder into the case haphazardly.
Attachments
I just want to know when a company like shell shok or similar will make the two piece cases for .308, they make two piece brass for 5.56x45 and for some reason .300blk… I suppose because it’s probably similar equipment to produce.
But a steel case headed .308win case could be interesting for hot rodding if you had some reason too.
I had shit luck with their 300blk nas3 casings. The whole "they dont stretch or need resized" thing is total bullcrap. Worse, the metal does not resize worth a damn, once fired I had multiples that would not go resize corrrctly.
Interesting, I saw a video years ago of TN9outdoors who did some of the better simblock pistol caliber testing back in the day on YT, who tested some with +P++ loads, a single case loaded hot as hell I think he loaded like 18 times or something.
Again we just need more data on how these cases are made and if they're made differently by different manufactures etc.P.S. Obviously pistol caliber brass is not the same as bottle necked rifle brass. Was just sharing what little exposure I had to them.
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Just ordered some 174s ELD VT for the XM3. Just kept having fliers with 168 TMK that i couldn’t explain. I’ll probably be back on MLK weekend to try it out over varget.
I had the same issue with the 168 and 175 TMK. Staying away from tipped bullets for now and currently playing with the Berger 175 OTM.
Man idk what it is. I created a thread on it last year and assumed it was me. Which it partially was I’m out of practice. Don’t shoot like i used to. So have to really work my way back into consistent fundamentals when i come home to do load development.
However, i was and am printing good groups across various rifles. Two of which are much more difficult to shoot than my XM3. One being the LMT LM8 in 308 and yesterday my sako 85 i had rechambered to a 6.5 PRC/SI.
Checked zero on the XM3 with the 168. 10 shot group was kinda meh majority of the 8 shots were okay. Then fliers. I’m like half a mil low from POA. So I’m thinking I’m anticipating a little maybe. Adjust, load the last 6 rounds. 2 are perfect on top of each other and exactly at POA the next 4 are about half a mil high and roughly a 3/4 MOA group.
Now i have never used secant ogive bullet consistently. But it sure seems that the TMKs are pretty sensitive.
After i saw the bc on the 174 i was hoping to switch to them anyway. So we’ll see. Hope to get 2550 from it on a 18.5” barrel but I’ll be pushing for sure.
Last night, lol first thing my buddy suggested. I’m 300rds in as of yesterday. So i went ahead and cleaned it last night. Going to run some 175gr aac through it today. It’s been wonderful in my LMT thus far so i assume it should shoot in a bolt gun. I’m almost 100% positive it’s hornadys aeromatch 175gr OTM. I also have some basic 155gr amax that are loaded for my brothers 308. Might snag some of those
I loaded up some TMKs back when I started reloading, mediocre results but I assumed it was because it was a factory Ruger Predator and Im a hobbyist shooter at best. Never had any .30 hornadys shoot for me so Id love to hear how those Aeromatch work for you.
I lied, I used some 103gr ELDxs to break in my 6GT barrel on my AI, those all shot sub-moa at 600yd during a hi-power practice at my local club. Not .5, but .75-.85 for 15 shots. Decent SD. Will be my deer round if I post up on a field or something with a tripod.
I’ve ran hornady through 308 hell since 2015. My 2nd rifle when i got in to precision shooting and reloading was a 700 5R. I started out with 155gr scenars, then 175gr BTLR from Berger, and settled on 178gr BTHP from hornady. And shot the hell of those until i sold it. Had the barrel cut to 20” and was getting 2630fps with a TBAC 30CB9 and it printed groups like this over 45.3gr of varget. I will forever regret selling that barreled action.
I forgot here was my LMT first 5 shot grouping with the aac stuff which again I’m nearly 100% positive that’s hornadys 175gr aero match bullet.
5 shot group with 176 atips from a 20" tikka ctr barrel. avg 2550fps. these were old loads from another barrel. lapua brass and varget.
All these prior posts about TMKs not working very well are a bit concerning. I bought a couple hundred 155s a while back to load try eventually. Maybe they'll be difficult to get to shoot good.
Man i will say before i bought 600 of them. I could not find load data anywhere for that damn bullet. Idk whether people just never really adopted them or what but google search turned up nothing. Buddy of mine had his and always had issues with them. From what i have gathered they’re nearly a true VLD design with a secant ogive and that’s why they’re so finicky. I shot 100 of them and had half decent groups but just wasn’t what i was looking for. I usually seat everything About 10-20 thou off the lands as a starting point. These are 100 thou off.
This was yesterday. 45.3 gr of varget was what i settled on. 10 shot group on the bottom. Then 6 shots at the X. I don’t have an explanation.
I would think it was me but i shot this with the sako 6.5 PRC/Si with a chin weld cause i dont have a stock pack.
I know somebody who shoots the regular 155 SMK at our monthly belly match. He is fairly successful with them out to 1000 yards. He might be a good reference for finding a starting load based on his 155 SMK load.
Basically what i did with the tmk. Just knowing the bullet is considerably longer with more bearing surface. This was next to a factory 175gr Norma. Of course the Norma is at mag length but the tmk is long as hell
Some people can get the TMK's to shoot and some can't. I like consistency and when I get 1 shot out in left field that turns a good group to shit, it gets annoying. It happens a lot more with the TMK's and other tipped bullets I've shot.
I've given up on chasing the highest BC bullets in favor of consistency. Pretty much only shoot Bergers at this point.
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I get that, however I'm still on the back end chasing BCs in hope that I can bring my beloved 308 closer to 6.5CM ballistics lol. Which admittedly the 174 is getting super close.
What about A-Tips? People getting good consistency? Solids could be an option for the guy chasing BC.
Right there with you. I've always tried to make the underdog fly with the aces with the highest BC bullets.
The experience that sticks out the most in my mind was a half MOA 7 SAUM load with 183 Sierra's that I took to a mile and couldn't hit with any kind of consistency. Switched to 184 Bergers and started hitting the plate regularly.
Not trying to rain on anyone's parade. There are plenty of shooters that have great results with tipped bullets. I just see more of what I like when I shoot Bergers.
I'm currently trying to stretch the legs on a .308 with 200 and 215 gr Hybrids. To the traditional crowd, it will probably sound like a waste of time, however even at a modest 2400 fps, a 215 Berger still crushes the normal .308 loads in the wind, at least on paper.
I really hope you have good results with the 174 Hornady. I was looking at that bullet for my M1A, but after the 168 and 175 TMK results, I decided to skip it.
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