Range Report 156 EOL on 6.5CM worth it?

[Paqueo]

Hi,



Search this forum for posts about this subject and Google it but couldn’t make the decision yet.

Would like to know your opinions if it’s worth use the Berger 156 grain EOL bullet on a 6.5 CM.

Have been reloading the 147 ELDM with Vihtavuori N560 and thought on changing to the heavier bullet and to N565 if necessary.

Barrel its 24” long and has a 1 turn in 8” twist.

Intended use is shooting steel above 1000 yards and eventually hunting.

Altitude use 300 to 5,000 feet and temperature range from 20 to 115 F. ?

All comments are much appreciated

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

The 156 is 1.512" long. To fit them in a mag, you would have to consume most of the internal volume with bullet instead of powder.

 

[Paqueo]

The 156 is 1.512" long. To fit them in a mag, you would have to consume most of the internal volume with bullet instead of powder.

Thanks for remembering that. Yes I do want to fit them in a magazine. Maximum allowed COAL is 2.844"

 

[-Time-]

Imo, the trade off isn’t worth it. I’m currently loading the 144gr Berger LRHTs @ 2800 FPS with RL16 out of a 24” 1-8 twist. Even if you could get the 156s up to the same speed, the difference at 1000 would only be 0.13mils less drop, and with a 6mph wind 0.04mils less drop.

What mags are you running? IIRC my mdt AICS mags are ~2.885” oal, and even seated out that far I’m close to 100% fill with 42.4gr of RL16 and a 144. I think the 156 will take up too much case capacity and you’ll never be able to reach the velocity high enough to make them worth it.

 

[Jabot]

Got a friend who runs them in his creedmore. velocity is 2700 but its throated super long single feed only

 

[Paqueo]

What mags are you running?

AICS from MDT and Magpul
Thanks for your comments. You r right. Its a minor improvement.
Im not too happy with the 147eldm. The bullets are too much inconsistent specially in terms of bearing surface and behavior above a 1000.
Might think about the Berger 144

 

[Steel head]

AICS from MDT and Magpul
Thanks for your comments. You r right. Its a minor improvement.
Im not too happy with the 147eldm. The bullets are too much inconsistent specially in terms of bearing surface and behavior above a 1000.
Might think about the Berger 144

get some binderless AI mags,,,2.95 oal all day.
Surprised the 147's aren't cutting it for you, I found their 1000+ performance excellent.

 

[stello1001]

The 156 can be made to work out of a CM but I'm not sure you're set up properly for it. I'd want a bit more twist, maybe 7.5 or 7, I'd want at least 26 inches of barrel length, long throat to load long, single feed obviously, and use RL26.

 

[Paqueo]

get some binderless AI mags,,,2.95 oal all day.
Surprised the 147's aren't cutting it for you, I found their 1000+ performance excellent.

Thanks! Will try to find some of those binderless AI mags.
Need to alter too much the muzzle velocity and BC on AB App to fit drops

 

[Steel head]

Thanks! Will try to find some of those binderless AI mags.
Need to alter too much the muzzle velocity and BC on AB App to fit drops

Use .a G7 of 315 to 1500 or.310 to a bit past a mile.
GTG.

 

[Paqueo]

The 156 can be made to work out of a CM but I'm not sure you're set up properly for it. I'd want a bit more twist, maybe 7.5 or 7, I'd want at least 26 inches of barrel length, long throat to load long, single feed obviously, and use RL26.

I also suspect not getting enough velocity. Combined with the twist might not stabilize properly.

 

[Paqueo]

Use .a G7 of 315 to 1500 or.310 to a bit past a mile.
GTG.

Thanks!
A G7 BC of .315 match exactly the dope I have a bit past a 1000 yards without the need to change MV.
When this confinement ends will try a even lower BC closer to the mile

 

[Steel head]

Thanks!
A G7 BC of .315 match exactly the dope I have a bit past a 1000 yards without the need to change MV.
When this confinement ends will try a even lower BC closer to the mile

If your solver can use multiple BC’s the combination of both of those works really well to 1800 yards without messing with speeds provided that your muzzle velocity isn’t really slow.
You can stage the second BC in right at your subsonic point.

My MV was 2805 with a 26” 1-8 barrel but my buddy’s 6.5CM gasser shooting 147 factory ammo did decently at a mile with a MV of 2610.
He has a 1-8 twist also.

 

[jaywhite97]

No word on tracking tests yet.

The 156 can be made to work out of a CM but I'm not sure you're set up properly for it. I'd want a bit more twist, maybe 7.5 or 7, I'd want at least 26 inches of barrel length, long throat to load long, single feed obviously, and use RL26.

I also suspect not getting enough velocity. Combined with the twist might not stabilize properly.

you guys are correct. At least for my area. 305' above sea level and on a 1:8 twist they didn't group well bergara. 1:7 twist browning they shot excellent. Going to try them out of a 1:8 PRC bergara and see if i can get around 3000fps.

Berger has a twist calculator and it says I should be okay.

 

[Paqueo]

If your solver can use multiple BC’s the combination of both of those works really well to 1800 yards without messing with speeds provided that your muzzle velocity isn’t really slow.
You can stage the second BC in right at your subsonic point.

My MV was 2805 with a 26” 1-8 barrel but my buddy’s 6.5CM gasser shooting 147 factory ammo did decently at a mile with a MV of 2610.
He has a 1-8 twist also.

My MV is also on the low side. 2680fps from a 24" bbl. With an ES around 10fps on 10 shots should managed to try it near a mile.
Not easy to find the right FFP for that distance in the terrain I'm regularly shooting.

The solvers Im using on my cell phone dont allow multiple BCs but I can save 3 different ammo data with different BCs to use @ different ranges

 

[Steel head]

You can also use the free Hornandy 4DOF app.
It has a easy trueing feature that works really well.

 

[Paqueo]

You can also use the free Hornandy 4DOF app.
It has a easy trueing feature that works really well.

Used several but never tried that one. Will check it now

 

[stello1001]

Used several but never tried that one. Will check it now

Yup, I had a solver that when I needed to input data from a diff rifle, it would not let me. It would not let me because it only allowed for one.

The Hornady though, it's going to allow you to store multiple dope charts, it's great!!!

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Berger factory 156 shot great at 100yds in my GAP 20”. Bartlein 8 twist.

Next chore is to take them out to 300 which is as far as my gunsmiths range goes.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Update
GAP 6.5 Creed 20” bartlein 8 twist 3 contour (hunting rifle)
Ultra 7 6.5
berger factory ammo 156 EOL
avg 2,565 fps at muzzle
Bottom group, 5 shots @ 100 yards today, I got excited about 4 shots in 1 hole and jerked the trigger on the 5th shot.
central Indiana, elevation 880’
I think they fly fine.

 

[BikePilot]

On the topic of heavy 6.5 cm ammo. I picked up a couple boxes of Berger 153.5s to try out. Haven't fired any yet, but they look nice

Berger Ammunition: 6.5 Creedmoor 153.5gr LR Hybrid, 20/Box

31091: Berger 6.5 Creedmoor ammo features Berger’s high BC, jump-tolerant hybrid ogive LRHT bullet, which is Doppler verified to less than 1% BC variation.

www.milehighshooting.com

 

[db2000]

you guys are correct. At least for my area. 305' above sea level and on a 1:8 twist they didn't group well bergara. 1:7 twist browning they shot excellent. Going to try them out of a 1:8 PRC bergara and see if i can get around 3000fps.

Berger has a twist calculator and it says I should be okay.

With 55.6 gr of RL26 I get 3000 fps and 0.75" 10 shot groups with 24" 1:8 Christiansen MPR CF barrel. It's a pretty hot load though.

 

[fdkay]

Never mind I see the subject was changed from CM to PRC

 

[XTREM HTR16]

I’m thinking I’ll be dead set on using this factory Berger 156 EOL ammo on my mule deer and antelope hunt in Wyoming next month. Bartlein barrels usually speed up a little, if I’m at 2,600 muzzle velocity, and hunting at around 6,000 feet elevation, it will still be carrying 2,000 fps and 1,400 ft-lbs at 600 yards. That’s some serious mojo IMO...

 

[Sokam101]

Im considering the 140 elite hunter or this 156 as a PRS and hunting load. Does the BC jump make a difference out to 1000 yards?

 

[nickw]

On the topic of heavy 6.5 cm ammo. I picked up a couple boxes of Berger 153.5s to try out. Haven't fired any yet, but they look nice

Berger Ammunition: 6.5 Creedmoor 153.5gr LR Hybrid, 20/Box

31091: Berger 6.5 Creedmoor ammo features Berger’s high BC, jump-tolerant hybrid ogive LRHT bullet, which is Doppler verified to less than 1% BC variation.

www.milehighshooting.com

I’m running this bullet in my 6.5 Creed. MDT mags and R26 (2800fps). Stacked 3 shots on a plate @ 998 the other day holding 1.4m of wind. Love them.

 

[ReplicaSnipers]

With 55.6 gr of RL26 I get 3000 fps and 0.75" 10 shot groups with 24" 1:8 Christiansen MPR CF barrel. It's a pretty hot load though.

That is blistering! Is that CM or PRC? If CM do you get much pressure signs? My extremely accurate load ( .3 - .4 MOA consistently) with the 156 EOL's is with H4350 @ 2535fps but I am looking at changing to RL26 for 6.5x55 and 6.5CM and probably a few other calibers to get the velocities I want. The H4350 load is great to 1000 yds but I'm looking at 1 mile now.

 

[ReplicaSnipers]

The 156 can be made to work out of a CM but I'm not sure you're set up properly for it. I'd want a bit more twist, maybe 7.5 or 7, I'd want at least 26 inches of barrel length, long throat to load long, single feed obviously, and use RL26.

It says 1:8 on the box and I have had no problems shooting consistent .3-.4 MOA groups sometimes smaller at 100 yds.

 

[ReplicaSnipers]

Update
GAP 6.5 Creed 20” bartlein 8 twist 3 contour (hunting rifle)
Ultra 7 6.5
berger factory ammo 156 EOL
avg 2,565 fps at muzzle
Bottom group, 5 shots @ 100 yards today, I got excited about 4 shots in 1 hole and jerked the trigger on the 5th shot.
central Indiana, elevation 880’
I think they fly fine.

View attachment 7417685

They state a velocity on their website for the Berger factory 156 EOL as 2680 so those velocities you state seem quite low?

 

[Jabot]

They state a velocity on their website for the Berger factory 156 EOL as 2680 so those velocities you state seem quite low?

Most likely use 24" barrel for testing
He's running a 20"

 

[ReplicaSnipers]

Was very pleased to see this come out after a looooong wait!

6.5 Creedmoor Ammo Test Part 5: Live-Fire Group Sizes & Precision

Welcome to Part 5 of the results from my massive 6.5 Creedmoor ammo field test! This article wil...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Most likely use 24" barrel for testing
He's running a 20"

Correct, thanks!

 

[db2000]

That is blistering! Do you get much pressure signs? My extremely accurate load ( .3 - .4 MOA consistently) with the 156 EOL's is with H4350 @ 2535fps but I am looking at changing to RL26 for 6.5x55 and 6.5CM and probably a few other calibers to get the velocities I want. The H4350 load is great to 1000 yds but I'm looking at 1 mile now.

Yeah, half to full circle extractor mark but not deep or concerning. Just a mark, no indentation into the brass I’ve seen before. You can push the envelope at the expense of the throat if you want. No blown primers or anything crazy. I had tight bolt opening and deep extractor marks with 57 gr. It’s very consistent. I’m not recommending it necessarily, just my experience

 

[ReplicaSnipers]

Most likely use 24" barrel for testing
He's running a 20"

Ahah! Got it! Mine's a 24". I wonder what powder they use?

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Ahah! Got it! Mine's a 24". I wonder what powder they use?

I’m going to guess VV. Since NAMMO owns them, Lapua and Berger.