16-18 inch shorty rifles

[stello1001]

Super fun rig. 16” 6.5Grendel View attachment 7898011

It looks like a great little toy. Just curious, with kind of purpose did you have in mind when you built it?

 

[evilsvt]

More specs and what do you mainly use it for?

Looks like an awesome hunting rig

Origin, 16” proof chambered by crown ridge. TT diamond 2 stage, Manners EH1 bedded by Beanland and Hawkins hunter dmb

It looks like a great little toy. Just curious, with kind of purpose did you have in mind when you built it?

Something fun to shoot pigs with. Had a bunch of brass from my AR and wanted something cheap to load for.

 

[Redfisher60]

Super fun rig. 16” 6.5Grendel View attachment 7898011

Did you have to modify the bolt face? That a Bighorn (Zermatt)?

 

[evilsvt]

Did you have to modify the bolt face? That a Bighorn (Zermatt)?

Just use the PPC bolt head

 

[RFutch]

Did you have to modify the bolt face? That a Bighorn (Zermatt)?

The Grendal and the Valkyrie use the same bolt face just different extractors per Zematt.

 

[7mm-matt]

Got my Savage out for a bit Sunday morning. Factory 175gr GMM does ok in this gun, really need to work up some handloads and see what this gun likes. I forgot to take pictures of the targets but shot about 1 MOA, some of that is my shooting was pretty rusty.

 

[Eric32]

My master race rifle

Stock 260rem 5R 18"
TT Special trigger
AAC SDN6 w/ Q Cherry Bomb
KMW Sentinel Gen 1
Badger EFR/Bottom Metal
Atlas Bipod
Badger rings
PMII 3-20

Forgot to add 2560 with FGMM 142SMKS

 

[Smitty192]

I've got a 308 barreled action sitting in the back of my safe and I've been considering cutting the barrel back. Do you need a faster poweder with the shorter barrel?

I was thinking of going 16" on the barrel. I have a ton of 175 SMK projectiles.

 

[TacticalPlinker]

My master race rifle

Stock 260rem 5R 18"
TT Special trigger
AAC SDN6 w/ Q Cherry Bomb
KMW Sentinel Gen 1
Badger EFR/Bottom Metal
Atlas Bipod
Badger rings
PMII 3-20

Forgot to add 2560 with FGMM 142SMKS

View attachment 7902592

What does she weigh ?

 

[Eric32]

I am guessing 15 ish but I'll throw it on the bathroom scale later today

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Haven't screwed the 16" 308 barrel on since the new upgrades but this is what it looked like before hand.

 

[Eric32]

What does she weigh ?

15.2 lbs on the scale

 

[vicroll91]

Remington 700 16.5 inch barrel in .223.
Manners T2 w/mini chassis
Sightron SIII 6-24

Just started shooting it the other day and I can already tell you my .308 won't find its way back into this stock soon. Lot of fun, cheap to shoot, accurate.

 

[Joeyg023]

16.5” 223 Wylde

 

[Leatherlunger]

16.5” 223 Wylde

That one looks like a lot of fun.

 

[Joeyg023]

That one looks like a lot of fun.

That’s what I’m hoping. I just picked up the barreled action last week. Had Altus Shooting Solutions build it up for me. Hoping to test it out this week sometime. Impact 737r action and Brux barrel.

 

[Leatherlunger]

You do a 7 twist?

 

[Joeyg023]

You do a 7 twist?

This one is a 1:8 since we couldn’t find much in stock for blanks. I have another lighter weight build they are doing with a proof 16.5” carbon barrel and that one is 1:7. Hoping to use 75-77s out of it. I won’t be doing much past 300 yards right now so either one should be plenty. I wanted a little heavier build and a light weight build.

 

[Rockdoc173]

Super fun rig. 16” 6.5Grendel View attachment 7898011

Ive been wanting one of the AB for suppressor for a while. it looks great on this rig!

 

[Jigstick]

Going to rebarrel my 6.5x47 with a 16.5 or 18in Proof Carbon fiber for my 10yr old son to use on white tail. What kind of MV can I expect with 90-120g projectiles? Plan on shooting Triple Shocks or similiar.

 

[stello1001]

Going to rebarrel my 6.5x47 with a 16.5 or 18in Proof Carbon fiber for my 10yr old son to use on white tail. What kind of MV can I expect with 90-120g projectiles? Plan on shooting Triple Shocks or similiar.

Depends on powder.
You can use varget, staball, h4350, r16, or even r26.

What do you have or what do you plan on using?

I would say with the 18" length and a 120, you can expect anywhere from 2650 to maybe 2800. There's more variables than just the powder selection, your barrel could be slow or it could be fast, etc.

However, I think that's a general ballpark

 

[HenryTheAce]

Going to rebarrel my 6.5x47 with a 16.5 or 18in Proof Carbon fiber for my 10yr old son to use on white tail. What kind of MV can I expect with 90-120g projectiles? Plan on shooting Triple Shocks or similiar.

I’m not a reloader or anything but for what it’s worth my 18” benchmark carbon 6.5manbun shooting Hornady factory 143eld-x shoots an avg of 2585

 

[Jakeweb09]

How about a 22lr? 16” on this one. Suppressor is only thing I’m still waiting on

 

[Heffo]

Going to rebarrel my 6.5x47 with a 16.5 or 18in Proof Carbon fiber for my 10yr old son to use on white tail. What kind of MV can I expect with 90-120g projectiles? Plan on shooting Triple Shocks or similiar.

Just recently chopped my 6.5Cmoor to 16”. 2760fps with Varget and 123ELDM.

 

[Jigstick]

Yeah I have plenty of Varget and H4350 here. R15 as well. So I have options with powder.

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

Yeah I have plenty of Varget and H4350 here. R15 as well. So I have options with powder.

I'm getting around 2930 with various brands of 123's with a 24" barrel without pushing too hard. You should be able to get close to 2800 with 120's in an 18" barrel if 25 fps p/inch of barrel holds up.

 

[260284]

Going to rebarrel my 6.5x47 with a 16.5 or 18in Proof Carbon fiber for my 10yr old son to use on white tail. What kind of MV can I expect with 90-120g projectiles? Plan on shooting Triple Shocks or similiar.

I get 2780 with Rl16 under 130s out of my 18" 6.5 Creed.

 

[Jigstick]

I want to run my titanium Thunderbeast can on it. A short OAL comes in handy here in PA when traversing through the forests and into / out of tree stands when white tail hunting.

 

[Gtscotty]

I get 2780 with Rl16 under 130s out of my 18" 6.5 Creed.

I'm around there too. Running 130gr TGKs in my 18", I have found good loads a little over 2,800 fps with RL16, and around 2,750 fps with StaBall.

 

[4O6shootist]

Any reason to go faster than an 8tw for a 17" 6.5cm? I'll likely shoot 140 elite hunter/eldm as heaviest bullet in this rifle. Live at 2k foot altitude, but winter gets well below zero here, would like this as a supressed hunting gun.

 

[Gtscotty]

Just got a 17" .280ai Kimber Hunter that I'm going to run suppressed all the time for hunting. Don't have pics yet, haven't even mounted a scope, and still need to get it threaded, but I did Chrono some loads to get an idea of what it will do.

162gr SST (all I could find)

6.5 StaBall
55.5gr - 2,644 fps
56gr - 2,650 fps
56.5gr - 2,651 fps
57gr - 2,692 fps
57.5gr - 2,741 fps
58gr - 2,784 fps

RL23
56.5gr - 2,598 fps
57gr - 2,651 fps
57.5gr - 2,658 fps
58gr - 2,678 fps
58.5gr - 2,715 fps
59gr - 2,721 fps

No pressure signs, recoil in a 5lb un-scoped rifle was... stout and the muzzle blast cleared out the benches on either side (no pity from me, one was shooting a braked .338 Lap, and the other a braked 6.5). Once I get my Nomad Ti and a decent scope mounted, I think it's going to be a sweet rig.

Time for an update on 16-18 inch shorty rifles - Plebe Edition.

I got my Kimber Hunter back from being threaded at Ecco machine, 1/2x28" was the only thread that would fit, but that's fine, I mounted a DA Xeno Xero and will be running my Nomad Ti (equivalent barrel length with can mounted is 23.75").

It's about 5.5lb with the Xero adapter and a mag, and 6.25lb with the can attached.

With the scope and mounts I'll be using, it should be ~7.5lb scoped and suppressed, and less than 8 lbs loaded, with sling and ready to hunt. I turned the trigger down from ~4.25lbs to a nice 2.75lbs. I picked up some 175gr ELDx from blue collar reloading last night, probably lose a little BC with the 9 twist, but it has a Bergara barrel like my other Kimber, so I hope it shoots as well, fingers crossed.

 

[4O6shootist]

Just ordered an Osprey 3B 19" 7tw 224 blank from PVA. Will be finishing at 17.5" and using my ultra7 for 24" overall. 22 creed on a Mac evo2, element 4.0 magnesium folder. Will be a fun lil rifle. Will likely run 88s for steel, and 70gr bulldozer2 for killing shit.

 

[4O6shootist]

Interesting question!!! I can tell you a 1:9 twist out of my 31 inch Brux Barrel stabilizes anything I put through it. That said length, velocity and the shape of the bullet you are using all matter. I doubt if I shortened my barrel down to 17" that 1:9 would work very well. Oh and that rifle is F-Class rig in 260 Rem.

I am actually looking forward to hearing an answer based on experience on this one! If I did not have a good answer and was in uncharted territory I would go faster to future proof. Bullets keep getting heavier for caliper finally and if you build it for today by the time you get it back from your smith it might be obsolete.

I have not had any issues going with faster than normal twist rates. For decades I have gone faster than is the norm and never been bit in the rear once by that. If you see me shooting a rifle with a standard for industry twist rate I prob. got it for a song. Sometimes price is too good to pass up on slow twist premium barrels or insanely faster than you might like! In this market of supply chain issues and inflation you sometimes do not have much choice or an insane wait time.

I have 2 SS 30cal barrels in 1:8 pencil #1 contours. Worried a lot about buying them because of the "too fast twist crowd" spent hours worrying about it. They shoot great. Since I got them from a top name barrel maker at 1/4th the normal price I was ok chancing it! I also was not keen on #1 contour but again top name barrel maker in the USA for decades and at 1/4th the normal price!

So at some point you have to pull the trigger and take some risk. Unless someone on here has campaigned the type of rifle you plan to build I would go 1:7. No one that makes ELD bullets or match bullets gives barrel twist recommendations based on short barrels. I do not think I have seen reloading manuals for instance give data for .308 Win, 6.5CM, 6CM, 243, 6mm Arc etc.....for a 17", 16" or 14" barrel.

I often hear people parrot the too fast twist rate for the 220 Swift back in the 1970's or something but none of them were actual shooting that in the 1970's or 1950's or whenever that was. Turned out to be problem with bullet jackets and velocity not the twist rate. The twist rate was just the easier thing to change as a band aid fix. BR guys will pipe up about that too sometimes but let's face it BR is most other shooting sports what Formula-1 racing is to Nascar! Those guys probably have dreams of 1/4 kernel of powder chasing them down like Freddy Kruger in Nightmare on Elm St. at night when sleeping! I have to imagine they measure their Astro Glide to the gram and measure their Scotts TP for uniformity. I would not over think this and I would future proof myself and go faster just to make sure.

Most factory rifles are usless to me as they come because the twist rates have been too slow for over 2 decades for the stuff I want to do. The 243 Win and 25-06 Rem are two fine examples. Likewise bullet makers have been on their rears for the last 30 years.

I've changed directions from the 65cm to the 22creed. Going 7tw for monos to hunt, and heavy cup/core bullets for steel practice.

 

[ktmkaratechips]

Question for all these shorty 6mm guys. Does the extra powder capacity of a 6creed net more velocity over an equal length 6arc? 16-18”. Or is the extra powder just being blown out of the barrel? Maybe a more easily found combo would be 6.5 Grendel vs creed

I’m very interested to hear somebody chime in on this. My guess is that yes it’s still faster but maybe but a smaller percentage than with a longer barrel? No experience with the 6mm’s to validate that theory though… I need a 103 eldx going 2900 to make me happy. I figure an 18” 6creed should get me there??

 

[spife7980]

I’m very interested to hear somebody chime in on this. My guess is that yes it’s still faster but maybe but a smaller percentage than with a longer barrel? No experience with the 6mm’s to validate that theory though… I need a 103 eldx going 2900 to make me happy. I figure an 18” 6creed should get me there??

You can probably get there but in my 18” 6xc 2900 with a 103 eldx was my top end but that’s not where it shot best.

 

[4O6shootist]

I’m very interested to hear somebody chime in on this. My guess is that yes it’s still faster but maybe but a smaller percentage than with a longer barrel? No experience with the 6mm’s to validate that theory though… I need a 103 eldx going 2900 to make me happy. I figure an 18” 6creed should get me there??

Id think it's doable depending on powder. I have a ruger American predator 6cm that I shortened to 20". This barrel seemed pretty slow and rough, as its a cheap mass production rig, but it shoots quite well. Anyway.......lapua srp brass and rl26 with a 108 elite hunter I was able to get up to 3090 with a full compressed load at 47.3gr, it shot sub half moa at 3030 fps so thats where I run it. Supressed with ultra7 out front.

 

[Gtscotty]

I’m very interested to hear somebody chime in on this. My guess is that yes it’s still faster but maybe but a smaller percentage than with a longer barrel? No experience with the 6mm’s to validate that theory though… I need a 103 eldx going 2900 to make me happy. I figure an 18” 6creed should get me there??

I don't think the difference in velocity lost per inch between bolt gun pressure 6mm ARC and 6mm Creed is anywhere near significant enough at rifle length barrels to make up much of the 300fps muzzle velocity difference. The larger cartridge let's you get more area under the pressure curve (and therefore more work done on the bullet) at any rifle barrel length, using more, slower burning powder.

My comparison isn't exactly apples to apples because my Grendel and ARC are gas guns. But, my 16" Grendel is good for about 2,450 fps with 123gr SST. My 18" 6.5 CM has good working loads with 130gr @ 2,750-2,800 fps 140gr -147gr @ 2,640-2,700 fps, depending on powders. There's not much comparison, and 2" won't change that.

I don't have a 6mm Creed, but my top end 105gr loads for my 21" 6mm ARC run about 2,700 fps. My GT is about 250fps faster with 112gr and 2" more barrel.

 

[Bucket]

OK, so technically they don’t count with their super-long 18.5” barrels, but I still think they’re cool and they kinda prove there’s nothing new under the sun…..

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

OK, so technically they don’t count with their super-long 18.5” barrels, but I still think they’re cool and they kinda prove there’s nothing new under the sun…..

I’ve always been a fan of those. My old No. 1 is similar. 20” barrel but because it’s a single shot, it’s as about as short as most 16” barreled rifles.

 

[John1890]

18 inch GAP barreled action bedded into a Manners TF4A by Aaron Roberts.

 

[CMP70306]

Going to rebarrel my 6.5x47 with a 16.5 or 18in Proof Carbon fiber for my 10yr old son to use on white tail. What kind of MV can I expect with 90-120g projectiles? Plan on shooting Triple Shocks or similiar.

Since you a planning on shooting copper take a look at Hammer Bullets, I’ve been able to get some of them 100 fps of more faster than conventional bullets of the same weight. Good way to help gain back some of the velocity lost to a shorter barrel.

Time for an update on 16-18 inch shorty rifles - Plebe Edition.

I got my Kimber Hunter back from being threaded at Ecco machine, 1/2x28" was the only thread that would fit, but that's fine, I mounted a DA Xeno Xero and will be running my Nomad Ti (equivalent barrel length with can mounted is 23.75").

It's about 5.5lb with the Xero adapter and a mag, and 6.25lb with the can attached.

View attachment 7913925

View attachment 7913926

With the scope and mounts I'll be using, it should be ~7.5lb scoped and suppressed, and less than 8 lbs loaded, with sling and ready to hunt. I turned the trigger down from ~4.25lbs to a nice 2.75lbs. I picked up some 175gr ELDx from blue collar reloading last night, probably lose a little BC with the 9 twist, but it has a Bergara barrel like my other Kimber, so I hope it shoots as well, fingers crossed.

I shot one of those in 6.5 Creedmoor without a can and it was hands down one of the most unpleasant firearms I have ever shot just behind an 1895 in 30-06 with a steel carbine buttstock.

With how much the Nomad Ti takes the recoil and concussion on my PRC I’ve always wondered if it would make that rifle actually bearable to shoot.

 

[Gtscotty]

I shot one of those in 6.5 Creedmoor without a can and it was hands down one of the most unpleasant firearms I have ever shot just behind an 1895 in 30-06 with a steel carbine buttstock.

With how much the Nomad Ti takes the recoil and concussion on my PRC I’ve always wondered if it would make that rifle actually bearable to shoot.

I've got one of those (actually a Montana, but I also have a Hunter stock for it), but it has a 20" barrel, so doesn't strictly qualify for this thread:

It's not a heavy thumper without the can, but it's way more fun, and far easier to shoot well with a can on the end. 5-6 lb rifles are pretty difficult to shoot well, my whole intent starting with an ultralight rifle is to be able to be able to come in ~7 - 7.5lb suppressed and ready to hunt.

I'm guessing the last owner sold this 5.5lb, 17" .280ai because he couldn't shoot it very well, it (perhaps not coincidentally) walloped him pretty good with each trigger pull, and is preposterously loud. I'm counting on the can taking a lot of the punch out like they do for my other rifles, and I do plan on using the E-brake on my Nomad during load development for a little extra reduction.

 

[PowPowHawg]

lil 16” 6 creed…. 10lb 4oz as pictured…

Update the 6 Creed is straight hammering. Waterline all day with 10.3 mil out too 1150 yds Is no slouch….

 

[ktmkaratechips]

Update the 6 Creed is straight hammering. Waterline all day with 10.3 mil out too 1150 yds Is no slouch….

What bullet are you running?

 

[PowPowHawg]

What bullet are you running?

Berger 108 EH

 

[ktmkaratechips]

Berger 108 EH

Nice! That’s pretty killer velocity

 

[JJ3]

I’ve always been a fan of those. My old No. 1 is similar. 20” barrel but because it’s a single shot, it’s as about as short as most 16” barreled rifles.

That is old skool cool!

 

[elitesniper223]

I’ll jump in. Here’s my 16.5” inch bolt action .458 socom.

Remington 700 action
Manners stock
Leupold VX-6HD

Set up to shoot strictly sub sonic 500 grain bullets. Have gotten it dialed into a .5 MOA gun with subs.

 

[Baron85]

Now that is a bad ass rifle!!!!

 

[JJ3]

Not finished.

Still needs some cerakote on the barrel, the newer tuner brake and a Kahles 18i but it’s dropping roo’s like it’s nobodies business in the meantime out to 600m with just Hornady precision hunter ammo

Manners EH1 with mini chassis gap camo
ARC Archimedes action
Proof 16.5 inch 1-8 twist 308WIN
Withoutwarning tmb
ARC rings
Kahles 525i
Henderson arca rail
Triggertech 2 stage special
ARC mag

View attachment 7579483

Nice setup…interesting choice in twist. What is the reason for the super fast twist for 308?