.22 br

8 months later and my 22BR OBW shipped from PVA. Debating if I should shoot virgin brass with 88/Varget or 69/TAC to somewhat fireform the barrel and speed it up.

I always like to put 100rd down a barrel before starting any load development or pay any attenion to velocities... I put 100rd of virgin/newly formed brass down my new 28" MW PVA 0.100 barrel last week with 88ELD 0.02" off over 28.5gr of Varget. They shot lights out....
 
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1646255300961.png

Good deal from SJA.
 
What have people seen with respect to collapsing shoulders when necking down 6BR brass? Got a new Forster FL die and ran a few pieces of new Lapua through, bulged/collapsed all three shoulders and saw significant belling of the case neck mouth too.

Sent the die off to get honed to 0.247” (talked to them on the phone, they said they’ll hone more than their order form says, they just don’t recommend it). Hoping that’ll fix it (I’m necking down something like 30 thou with the raw die, the honing should make that more like 20 thou), but just wondering if I’m gonna need a step-down die. Really don’t want one, since I’m not running a bushing die.

@Birddog6424 you said you neck down in one step, what OD are you going to when you do, and using what die setup?
 
What have people seen with respect to collapsing shoulders when necking down 6BR brass? Got a new Forster FL die and ran a few pieces of new Lapua through, bulged/collapsed all three shoulders and saw significant belling of the case neck mouth too.

Sent the die off to get honed to 0.247” (talked to them on the phone, they said they’ll hone more than their order form says, they just don’t recommend it). Hoping that’ll fix it (I’m necking down something like 30 thou with the raw die, the honing should make that more like 20 thou), but just wondering if I’m gonna need a step-down die. Really don’t want one, since I’m not running a bushing die.

@Birddog6424 you said you neck down in one step, what OD are you going to when you do, and using what die setup?
That's true. I do it in one pass with a .249 bushing in a 6BR FL Redding die.

I have never lost a single piece of brass. I just did 300 brand new pieces of Lapua two weeks ago without issue. All told I've probably resized 800 pieces from 6 to 22 in one pass. 600 of them within the last few months. I just goop em up with One Shot and crank the handle.

They hit my mandrel in the 2nd stage of my 650 that takes them to a .250 OD. I put powder and bullet and take them out and shoot them With a finished OD of .252.
 
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What have people seen with respect to collapsing shoulders when necking down 6BR brass? Got a new Forster FL die and ran a few pieces of new Lapua through, bulged/collapsed all three shoulders and saw significant belling of the case neck mouth too.

Sent the die off to get honed to 0.247” (talked to them on the phone, they said they’ll hone more than their order form says, they just don’t recommend it). Hoping that’ll fix it (I’m necking down something like 30 thou with the raw die, the honing should make that more like 20 thou), but just wondering if I’m gonna need a step-down die. Really don’t want one, since I’m not running a bushing die.

@Birddog6424 you said you neck down in one step, what OD are you going to when you do, and using what die setup?
Eric Miller @ Aem Uses a max bore forster fl non bushing 22br die for first neck down, then recommend a 6br fl bushing die with bushing to achieve desired neck tension.
 
Eric Miller @ Aem Uses a max bore forster fl non bushing 22br die for first neck down, then recommend a 6br fl bushing die with bushing to achieve desired neck tension.

I use a SAC BR sizing die with a 0.258 bushing then .247 bushing then my mandrel in last station on my 650 with Lapua brass and Imperial...not a single piece of damaged brass. I spray with homemade lanolin and just run the .247 bushing and mandrel for all other sizings after
 
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I used a Redding fl 22BR die to size mine down with one pass and didn't lose any. I used plenty of one shot with that set up. I only did 500. I use a Hornaday 6Br bushing die for everything after that.
 
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I just sized down 150 pieces of 6BR Lapua to 22BR with one pass. Using SAC Modular BR Die, .247 Bushing, .222 mandrel, and lanolin lube. Very little force required; didn't lose any. I was previously using Imperial Wax based on Primal Rights recommendation. Decided to try my ole trusted lanolin mix and I won't go back to wax.
 
I used a Redding fl 22BR die to size mine down with one pass and didn't lose any. I used plenty of one shot with that set up. I only did 500. I use a Hornaday 6Br bushing die for everything after that.
Heavy on the 1 shot lube is the key to that for sure. i came up with the same process as well with the redding FL die. When trying to use imperial wax first i crushed 10 out of 100. I also use the bushing die afterwards
 
Sounds like people are using necks/bushings in the same range as what I’m asking Forster hone to, hopefully I’m good. Thanks for the info on lots of One Shot too.
 
Loaded up all my 1x 22BR Lapua brass that was annealed, sized and trimmed after initial fire forming (I converted 4x Lapua that was fired in my 6BR)...

Im done messing with 90 smk and Varget. The combo does not shoot like it does in my 220TB... Good speed and ES/SD on the 3 highest charge weights but just doesnt want to group from jam to .030 off with ease like it does in my 220TB... No worries, I have plenty of other rifles that love Varget so Im glad this 22BR liked other powders I dont really use in my other guns. 28.5gr Varget and 88 ELD shoot lights out though.

I did this initial OCW and when I had no pressure, I did the second OCW from 29.4 - 30.0gr...







I decided to test out some other powders today so next up, I tested VV N550. It shot really good with good accuracy, pretty good SD's and speed. 31.3gr stacked them right in there and is right at 3000 with SD 6.. Zero pressure, so I could probably test some higher charges but I really like this 31.3gr load.







Lastly, and the most suprising, was IMR 4166. I have a TON of it and dont shoot it in any other rifles so happy to see it really consistent with the 90smk. This OCW, all charge weights are 5 shot groups as I wanted to load up the rest of my 1x brass so I could clean everything and process after this range trip.

29.0 and 29.3gr shot tiny little nots other than the 5th shot in each of those groups. I ran out of tiny and hurried shooting the 5 shot of each charge weight (round robin) as I had to get back to the office. Both of those 4 shot groups were just under 0.25" before I yanked those last 2 shots. very promising, Ill play around with those charge weights after I process this brass.


 
Much appreciated!
Have seen #'s on net , all over the place on capacity, nice to have direct comparison.

I knew my PPC wildcat was close to either/or from your velocities you posted in your testing with 220TB and velocities on this thread.

29.0 gr Varget/88ELDM is right at 3000 fps
29.6 gr of IMR 4166/88ELDM is av. 3013 fps from my rifles for comparison.

Case holds 40.3 gr of CFE223
 
CFE233 in the 22 Dasher.

I fireformed a bunch of this today at a local match I was MD'ing. It was good fun shooting a bulk Hornady 75gr BTHP at 2770fps with a whopping .180 BC. It was like an underperforming 223 🤣



Interesting! Thats a significant increase in Capacity over 220TB and 22BR... I have a 29" Bartlein HV 1:7.5 blank sitting here debating what to chamber it in.....hmmmm
 
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Interesting! Thats a significant increase in Capacity over 220TB and 22BR... I have a 29" Bartlein HV 1:7.5 blank sitting here debating what to chamber it in.....hmmmm
I'm still in the "playing with it" phase. I still have a couple barrels for my BR.

I'm just not sure I need to squeeze the extra velocity out of the case. I've had such great luck with running 88s at 3k, and now the 85.5 at 3040. I dont know if I need to squeeze for another 40 to 50fps.

I'm going to run the Dasher at the Koenig/Ruger PRS match in Colorado next month with the Bergers. We'll see how she does.
 
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I'm still in the "playing with it" phase. I still have a couple barrels for my BR.

I'm just not sure I need to squeeze the extra velocity out of the case. I've had such great luck with running 88s at 3k, and now the 85.5 at 3040. I dont know if I need to squeeze for another 40 to 50fps.

I'm going to run the Dasher at the Koenig/Ruger PRS match in Colorado next month with the Bergers. We'll see how she does.

I just loaded up 70rd of 22br 90smk N550 at 2993 that shot one hole in load development. Gonna shoot some groups at 200, 300 and 500yd and see how it does. Also loaded up 30rd 90smk over 4166 to shoot at distance as well. Looks like nice weather this week so we will see
 
I just loaded up 70rd of 22br 90smk N550 at 2993 that shot one hole in load development. Gonna shoot some groups at 200, 300 and 500yd and see how it does. Also loaded up 30rd 90smk over 4166 to shoot at distance as well. Looks like nice weather this week so we will see
Curious to see how it does. I've never played with that bullet before.

I'm hearing 4166 is a good powder for the BR/Dasher.
 
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It was pretty darn windy today with a right to left wind. Not the best day for shooting groups at distance.

I loaded up 10rd each of 28.7gr, 29.0gr and 29.3gr of 4166 with the 90smk. I shot two 5 shot groups of each charge at 200yd today. Im really liking this 4166. My favorite powder with the 90smk so far. Im going to load up another 50rd or so to test 29.3gr at 400 and 600yd. 28.7gr didnt shoot bad either, both are in that sub 0.5moa range.




While 31.1gr VV N550 shot one hole at 100yd during inital load developement, it had some vertical at distance but still shot pretty darn good. Nothing to sneeze at


200yd with lots of vertical







400yd was nothing to sneeze at, especially in the windy conditions





600yd still wasnt terrible, you can really see the left to right wind in these groups






Just playing around with this 22BR, seeing what it likes. Ill play with 4166 and the 90smk and if it doesnt shoot the way I want Im going back to 88 ELD. I have 200-300 and just received another 1000. They shot lights out to 700 with 28.5gr Varget and zero load development and they are cheap. I also have 100pc box of 85.5 Bergers @Emc_2015 gave me to test. So Ill load them up as well and see how they do.
 
Looking good..

I'm experimenting with SW Precision again. And I'm going to keep an eye out for 4166. I think the latter will run well in my BR and GT.

I've heard good things about SW precision powder and wanted to play with it for a while but never found any at any reasonable price to buy. I have 24lb 4166 so happy it's shooting so well.
 
That's true. I do it in one pass with a .249 bushing in a 6BR FL Redding die.

I have never lost a single piece of brass. I just did 300 brand new pieces of Lapua two weeks ago without issue. All told I've probably resized 800 pieces from 6 to 22 in one pass. 600 of them within the last few months. I just goop em up with One Shot and crank the handle.

They hit my mandrel in the 2nd stage of my 650 that takes them to a .250 OD. I put powder and bullet and take them out and shoot them With a finished OD of .252.
I’m new to the 22 BR so thanks to all who have posted on here with lots of great knowledge. I have 300 pieces of brand new Lapua 6 BR on the way and Redding 22 BR FL bushing die so I’m planning on doing exactly what you’ve suggested here @Birddog6424. I’ll follow up with a K&M mandrel as well after resizing. Are you doing any neck turning afterwards? Seeing any issues down the road with doughnuts forming?
 
I’m new to the 22 BR so thanks to all who have posted on here with lots of great knowledge. I have 300 pieces of brand new Lapua 6 BR on the way and Redding 22 BR FL bushing die so I’m planning on doing exactly what you’ve suggested here @Birddog6424. I’ll follow up with a K&M mandrel as well after resizing. Are you doing any neck turning afterwards? Seeing any issues down the road with doughnuts forming?

I'm on my 4th sizing (3x fired) and no doughnut issues for me. I also use mandrel but i stepped down in 2 sizings with .259 then .247 bushings then my mandrel. And I don't neck turn...if you have .254-.256 neck in your chamber you dont need to neck turn.
 
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I'm on my 4th sizing (3x fired) and no doughnut issues for me. I also use mandrel but i stepped down in 2 sizings with .259 then .247 bushings then my mandrel. And I don't neck turn...if you have .254-.256 neck in your chamber you dont need to neck turn.
Awesome, thanks! Stepping down in two sizes sounds like a good idea, definitely what an article on Accurate Shooter suggests. Guess I won’t know how much neck my chamber has until I produce a piece of fired brass. It’s a SJA 1:7 barrel with 0.050” freebore. Is that a bit short on freebore? I seem to recall some preferring all the way out to 0.130”.
 
Awesome, thanks! Stepping down in two sizes sounds like a good idea, definitely what an article on Accurate Shooter suggests. Guess I won’t know how much neck my chamber has until I produce a piece of fired brass. It’s a SJA 1:7 barrel with 0.050” freebore. Is that a bit short on freebore? I seem to recall some preferring all the way out to 0.130”.

Others are stepping down in 1 step without issue. So you should be good, I just did it in 2 and went great for me. You dont know the reamer spec used to chamber your barrel? I would ask.... But if you have .050 freebore it sounds like the original 22BR reamers which had 0.050" freebore and a 0.252" neck.... 0.255 is the suggested No-Turn neck...

Im shooting a 0.100 freebore and Im very happy with it, ELD could go out a little more, but Im not concerned... 0.130" seems to be that sweet spot.. 0.050" people have said shot great, but youll be eating up case capacity with the heavier bullets loaded down in the case at 0.050 fb
 
Others are stepping down in 1 step without issue. So you should be good, I just did it in 2 and went great for me. You dont know the reamer spec used to chamber your barrel? I would ask.... But if you have .050 freebore it sounds like the original 22BR reamers which had 0.050" freebore and a 0.252" neck.... 0.255 is the suggested No-Turn neck...

Im shooting a 0.100 freebore and Im very happy with it, ELD could go out a little more, but Im not concerned... 0.130" seems to be that sweet spot.. 0.050" people have said shot great, but youll be eating up case capacity with the heavier bullets loaded down in the case at 0.050 fb
I don’t know the reamer specs but I’m guessing you’re correct on it being an original 22 BR reamer. If my calculations are close, with 0.002” neck tension, I should be somewhere around 0.248” to 0.250” with Lapua brass which will hopefully be just under the 0.252” chamber neck. I’ve measured neck thickness on Lapua brass to consistently be 0.013” in 6.5 CM brass, but with sized down 22 BR, I imagine it’ll be thicker. (0.222” + 0.013” + 0.013” = 0.248”). Being new to a wildcat, does having that tight neck chamber necessitate neck turning? A looser chamber prevents that?

Running the 7 SAUM in a short action, I’ve now got some experience with seating long bullets deeper into the case. Bummer I’ll have to do it with this barrel too. The 88 ELD-M is the primary bullet I’m wanting to shoot with Varget. Glad it’s a 24” bbl at least.
 
I don’t know the reamer specs but I’m guessing you’re correct on it being an original 22 BR reamer. If my calculations are close, with 0.002” neck tension, I should be somewhere around 0.248” to 0.250” with Lapua brass which will hopefully be just under the 0.252” chamber neck. I’ve measured neck thickness on Lapua brass to consistently be 0.013” in 6.5 CM brass, but with sized down 22 BR, I imagine it’ll be thicker. (0.222” + 0.013” + 0.013” = 0.248”). Being new to a wildcat, does having that tight neck chamber necessitate neck turning? A looser chamber prevents that?

Running the 7 SAUM in a short action, I’ve now got some experience with seating long bullets deeper into the case. Bummer I’ll have to do it with this barrel too. The 88 ELD-M is the primary bullet I’m wanting to shoot with Varget. Glad it’s a 24” bbl at least.

Others will have to post who used the tighter 0.252 neck for confirmation, but I believe some have said they had either feeding or extraction issues with that original 0.252 neck.... wait for others to chime in on that.

The 88 ELD will be pretty far down in the case with 0.050" FB... Now you can have a shop throat it out for you very easily. Takes all of a few minutes to do.... So thats an option...
 
What have people seen with respect to collapsing shoulders when necking down 6BR brass? Got a new Forster FL die and ran a few pieces of new Lapua through, bulged/collapsed all three shoulders and saw significant belling of the case neck mouth too.

Sent the die off to get honed to 0.247” (talked to them on the phone, they said they’ll hone more than their order form says, they just don’t recommend it). Hoping that’ll fix it (I’m necking down something like 30 thou with the raw die, the honing should make that more like 20 thou), but just wondering if I’m gonna need a step-down die. Really don’t want one, since I’m not running a bushing die.

@Birddog6424 you said you neck down in one step, what OD are you going to when you do, and using what die setup?
i had hundreds of old 6BRA brass that i had pulled. in one pass with the SAC die (.247 bushing) they became 22BR. i didn’t lose a piece of brass. I’m running 88eld’s in a bartlein 7.75-7.0 gain twist. as my practice rifle i’m running 33.0g or Staball at .020“ off. shoots very well.
 
Others will have to post who used the tighter 0.252 neck for confirmation, but I believe some have said they had either feeding or extraction issues with that original 0.252 neck.... wait for others to chime in on that.

The 88 ELD will be pretty far down in the case with 0.050" FB... Now you can have a shop throat it out for you very easily. Takes all of a few minutes to do.... So thats an option...
I had good luck with my first barrel with a standard 22BR reamer, .050 fb and .252 neck. The next barrel I had chambered with the same reamer, I had stiff bolt close and open due to the tight neck. There is a local smith that has a .100 and .253 reamer. I am tempted to have him set back my original barrel that has 1800 rounds on it and see if .253 is big enough. If I were to order a new reamer, it would be .100 and .254 or .255.
 
I’m new to the 22 BR so thanks to all who have posted on here with lots of great knowledge. I have 300 pieces of brand new Lapua 6 BR on the way and Redding 22 BR FL bushing die so I’m planning on doing exactly what you’ve suggested here @Birddog6424. I’ll follow up with a K&M mandrel as well after resizing. Are you doing any neck turning afterwards? Seeing any issues down the road with doughnuts forming?
I think Padom pretty much got most of that. And pretty spot on.

I couldn't get a .252 neck chamber to run worth a damn. I had load development issues.

Once I bought a neck reamer and opened it up to .254 it cleared everything up. It started bugholing and cycling better.

As Padom pointed out, .254 to .255" for the neck, and a freebore .100 to .130". The .050 freebore is ok, but it performs better with the longer freebores.

I run a .255 neck at .130" freebore..
 
Thanks for the perspective there, I think I will have the freebore extended out to the 0.100”-0.130” range. Maybe I can find a shop with a newer reamer too.
@Deep South Tactical has mine, 0.255 neck and 0.130 FB. Reamer’s brand new, they’re gonna cut my chamber soon but happy to loan it out for a minor wear-and-tear fee.
 
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@Deep South Tactical has mine, 0.255 neck and 0.130 FB. Reamer’s brand new, they’re gonna cut my chamber soon but happy to loan it out for a minor wear-and-tear fee.
What’s the turn around time at Deep South Tactical? I definitely like to take you up on on the reamer offer. Happy to pay a wear & tear fee, shouldn’t be too hard to open up an existing chamber a bit. Maybe I could get my barrel down there while they still have your reamer on hand.
 
What’s the turn around time at Deep South Tactical? I definitely like to take you up on on the reamer offer. Happy to pay a wear & tear fee, shouldn’t be too hard to open up an existing chamber a bit. Maybe I could get my barrel down there while they still have your reamer on hand.
It was a couple weeks awhile back, I'm waiting to hear from them on the lead time but don't worry about the reamer leaving their shop; I'm just gonna leave it with them, they cut all my barrels right now and I'm not getting another spun for awhile. I'll shoot you a PM about it, but they've got a very nice lady who always answers the phone, she might have info on lead time.
 
i had JGS make me a .255NK and .130FB reamer. The 88’s still sit well into the neck. a .150FB would have worked as well.

Remember, rule of thumb is you want at least bullet diameter worth of bullet bearing surface engaging the neck... So you want at least .224 of bearing surface engaging the neck.....
 
Just FYI,
This wildcat I came up with for AR Platform shot so well I had to chamber bolt guns for it... which now have 3 bolt barrels chambered.
The PPC/220 Russian brass comes out of fireforming process considerably shorter than I had hoped.
I machined my reamer with a short .203 neck length, some of the new formed brass only has a .18 neck length ,until it gets several firing on it but still shoots decent.

Point being one caliber seating/neck length IMO is debatable, although if my chamber had a longer neck maybe it would shoot better....
 

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Had an hour today so I ran out to test my 28.7gr 4166 low node at distance. 2946 SD 5 - ES 8... The plan was to shoot 2 five shot groups each at 300, 400, 600. Unfortunetly it was super windy... Blowing 15-17mph switching from behind to left to right.... Nice and sunny, but windy as hell. So instead, I shot 4 groups each at 300 and 400yd...

First time out with my new Super Cal and damn this thing is awesome. Super stable and built like a tank. Very happy with it!













300yd


Setup my Kestrel and it said 0.5mil for 300yd so I dialed 0.5mil and fired 5 shots on this piece of steel to confirm my elevation. Elevation was dead on the line.. Unfortunetly the wind really picked up and was switching like crazy.












400yd


Kestrel said 1.4mil for 400yd so I dialed 1.4mil and fired 1 shot on this piece of steel to confirm my elevation. It was low. Dialed 1.5mil and the next 4 shots elevation was perfect right on the line. The wind was still blowing pretty good but not switching from behind to left to right as much so I was able to get a little more consistent groups.. Not bad for the conditions.













Hopefully Ill have an hour or so and calmer conditions to get out later this week to shoot the 29.3gr load at 300, 400, 600yd before moving testing over to 85 Bergers and 88 ELD.



 
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Got out today to test my best load at distance....90smk over 29.3gr 4166 .....

I FINALLY caught a calm wind day and of course when I pull into the range it's a white out. Foggy as hell.

I wanted to shoot 300, 400 and 600 but I hung targets at 300, 400 and 500 hoping the fog would clear. It didnt...it got worse. I could barely see my POA at 300 and 400...couldn't see 500 at all








300yd









400yd







 
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