22 creedmoor

[4O6shootist]

7 tw for some 90gr bergers, they seem to be the only heavy bullet thar won't eat itself at more than 3100fps. 24" 7tw slings 90s@3230, my 22" 8tw sends 75gr@3430.

I've shot prob 400 hundred 85.5s through my 7tw osprey blank, no issues. Ran 75s at 3250 without problem either. Velocity is lower tho as it's an 18" barrel.

 

[JR1200W3]

Never a problem until it is. I shot a match with a guy shooting 95s from a :6.5" 22-250 AI at probably 3100+. He wouldn't say what is velocity was but hinted it was pretty fast. I asked him if he had any issues blowing up bullets. He was super confident, "Nope!, this barrel is lights out at 1900rds!". Literally the next stage he gets down and blows up a bullet on a 300yd target. He was like, "did anyone see where that went?!" I said, ya, you blew a bullet up. He denied it and chambered the next round shot a target and then engaged the third target, but a puff of white blew up 50yds out. I told him he blew up another.

He would've denied it all day long until it happened in front of a whole squad.

 

[max1840]

I have shot about 200 90 grain sierra's at 3100+ fps without issue in a 26" 7 twist Osprey. I will soon start working with 95 grain Sierra's and hope for the same results. The only bullets I have had come apart were 147 ELDM's in my 6.5 PRC.

 

[ncyotecaller]

I have shot about 200 90 grain sierra's at 3100+ fps without issue in a 26" 7 twist Osprey. I will soon start working with 95 grain Sierra's and hope for the same results. The only bullets I have had come apart were 147 ELDM's in my 6.5 PRC.

So far 95’s have worked well at 3080fps in a 7 twist Mullerworks for me.

 

[wildturkey2]

So far 95’s have worked well at 3080fps in a 7 twist Mullerworks for me.

Sounds good I’m running a 8 twist so I will be running between 75 & 80 grain bullets

 

[6brshooter]

I have shot about 200 90 grain sierra's at 3100+ fps without issue in a 26" 7 twist Osprey. I will soon start working with 95 grain Sierra's and hope for the same results. The only bullets I have had come apart were 147 ELDM's in my 6.5 PRC.

The 95smk is fine at 3000 max. I had issues with them randomly in a new 7tw barrel. Thinking since it happened at several different velocities(3020, 3110, and 3180) sporadically, it must be a bullet lot issue. Sierra ballistician I talked with flat out said those were designed for 223 and 224valk, at their speeds. In a bigger 22 case they would desinigrate.. I mention I'd saw several guys post about it working, to this he laughed and said "for now, let them get a little throat wear and see how they like it." If it works fine, but it isn't gonna work long enough to wear out a barrel. I can see it being good for a short barrel that will not be over 3000fps, but handicapping a 26" pipe to 3000fps with a 95smk or rolling a 90gr berger at 3230 is a no brainer for me.

 

[6brshooter]

So far 95’s have worked well at 3080fps in a 7 twist Mullerworks for me.

I wish you luck, maybe with fresh barrel and 5r type rifling, they will hang together for a little bit. I found the 90hr berger to be more accurate and easier to load. The bc difference, at same speed, wasn't worth the hassle and blow ups. Factor in throttling back the 95smk and the bc wasn't worth it.

 

[ncyotecaller]

I wish you luck, maybe with fresh barrel and 5r type rifling, they will hang together for a little bit. I found the 90hr berger to be more accurate and easier to load. The bc difference, at same speed, wasn't worth the hassle and blow ups. Factor in throttling back the 95smk and the bc wasn't worth it.

Barrel is now in the corner and replaced with a 6.5x47 barrel. I may dabble with the 22 Creedmoor down the road if I want a bolt action coyote rifle instead of my AR-10 .243.

 

[JR1200W3]

I wish you luck, maybe with fresh barrel and 5r type rifling, they will hang together for a little bit. I found the 90hr berger to be more accurate and easier to load. The bc difference, at same speed, wasn't worth the hassle and blow ups. Factor in throttling back the 95smk and the bc wasn't worth it.

Have you done the analysis to see where differing twists, RPMs, speed, BC, and stability intersect? Like how much is the BC degraded? And does it make a difference in wind error forgiveness at distance? Or does it matter so much that a person can shoot a lighter/ shorter bullet with a poorer BC faster to make up the difference? Just curious; not a loaded question.

As far as twist rate and rpms go it's completely agnostic of bullet weight or length, barrel length, or altitude. It pretty much establishes a glass ceiling of top speed. But stability can be managed by twist rate, speed, and altitude at the cost of BC. I guess the question is: At each individual persons altitude, what is the BC cost of keeping the 95 SMK below 300K RPMs? Whether by speed or reduced twist? Is that BC cost negligible in wind drift at distance or is it considerable? And then finally, if you self-limit to another sturdier bullet, are you still limited by speed and does that bullet have an optimized BC that is better than the 95's degraded BC?

 

[max1840]

The 95smk is fine at 3000 max. I had issues with them randomly in a new 7tw barrel. Thinking since it happened at several different velocities(3020, 3110, and 3180) sporadically, it must be a bullet lot issue. Sierra ballistician I talked with flat out said those were designed for 223 and 224valk, at their speeds. In a bigger 22 case they would desinigrate.. I mention I'd saw several guys post about it working, to this he laughed and said "for now, let them get a little throat wear and see how they like it." If it works fine, but it isn't gonna work long enough to wear out a barrel. I can see it being good for a short barrel that will not be over 3000fps, but handicapping a 26" pipe to 3000fps with a 95smk or rolling a 90gr berger at 3230 is a no brainer for me.

Thanks for the info. I believe the Sierra representative. I also believe, as stated before on this site that the bore size has a lot to do with it. The osprey is .219 as opposed to say a Kreiger which is .218. I have 15 rounds loaded up to test in my rifle that currently has 462 rounds through it. I'll report back on the results.

 

[6brshooter]

Have you done the analysis to see where differing twists, RPMs, speed, BC, and stability intersect? Like how much is the BC degraded? And does it make a difference in wind error forgiveness at distance? Or does it matter so much that a person can shoot a lighter/ shorter bullet with a poorer BC faster to make up the difference? Just curious; not a loaded question.

As far as twist rate and rpms go it's completely agnostic of bullet weight or length, barrel length, or altitude. It pretty much establishes a glass ceiling of top speed. But stability can be managed by twist rate, speed, and altitude at the cost of BC. I guess the question is: At each individual persons altitude, what is the BC cost of keeping the 95 SMK below 300K RPMs? Whether by speed or reduced twist? Is that BC cost negligible in wind drift at distance or is it considerable? And then finally, if you self-limit to another sturdier bullet, are you still limited by speed and does that bullet have an optimized BC that is better than the 95's degraded BC?

All I'm saying is that the 95smk, according to Sierra, was designed around 223 and 224valk speeds. That's 2500-2900(maybe optimistic), you start hammering on them in a creedmoor at 3000+ and it's a crapshoot on whether they stay together. And if they work today, there's no guarantee they'll work in 400+ rds of barrel wear. My point was the 90gr berger hangs together up to 3300 in a 7tw 22 creed, shot better at 3230 so I settled there. In over 100+rds, I've yet to have any weird impacts, just where they expected to go. The 95smk, I had 3 or 4 out of 24 not get to the target or land sideways(jacket presumably starting to fail and causing yawing). That happened at low speeds of 3050 and a higher. No amount of hoping will make that work.

 

[JR1200W3]

All I'm saying is that the 95smk, according to Sierra, was designed around 223 and 224valk speeds. That's 2500-2900(maybe optimistic), you start hammering on them in a creedmoor at 3000+ and it's a crapshoot on whether they stay together. And if they work today, there's no guarantee they'll work in 400+ rds of barrel wear. My point was the 90gr berger hangs together up to 3300 in a 7tw 22 creed, shot better at 3230 so I settled there. In over 100+rds, I've yet to have any weird impacts, just where they expected to go. The 95smk, I had 3 or 4 out of 24 not get to the target or land sideways(jacket presumably starting to fail and causing yawing). That happened at low speeds of 3050 and a higher. No amount of hoping will make that work.

I was asking based specifically off your comment about milking it down to 3,000 and below not being worth it. If you want to argue Bergers are better bullets, Sure. I won't argue that. But with a published BC of the 95 grain smk if you compromise it a little bit, it's still got a better BC than most of the other 90 grain bullets out there. All I'm saying is it's got a little bit of room in that BC to come down a little bit and still be competitive at 2950.

 

[6brshooter]

Using just the best bc of Sierra's banded bc range(which I'm not going into that) at 3000fps at 1000 in a 10mph fv wind it's 7mile drop and 1.7mil drift. My load of 90gr vld at 3230(which shot better than 95smk and never lost a bullet) is 6.2mil drop and 1.7mil drift. The 95smk might need to be slowed to 2950 or a bit less to remain intact past 50yds, and also a 6.5tw barrel, now it's 7.3 drop and 1.8 drift. But hey it's probably gonna not fly apart, so there's that.

 

[6brshooter]

Wind hold being the same, I guess you could say it's a wash. But if I'm running a creedmoor case, why do I run it at 224 Valk speed? Why not just run a 224 valk?

 

[JR1200W3]

Wind hold being the same, I guess you could say it's a wash. But if I'm running a creedmoor case, why do I run it at 224 Valk speed? Why not just run a 224 valk?

I am by no means a proponent of the 95 SMK. The point I was really going after is I would rather use a barrel twist that I know will accommodate all bullets even if that means a little less BC. To me that means keeping them under 300,000 RPMs. So if we want to push bullets to 3200 you need a 1: 7.7. we can play the " but this bullet but not that bullet" thing but to go through the time and expense of chambering a barrel and doing load development and all that time and effort I think it's prudent to just stay under 300K as a planning Factor. I live at 6,000 ft and I can stabilize all those bullets with a 1:7.7. Might I lose a little BC? Sure, But I don't think it's that big a factor. And then the point I was making about the 95 is it's got plenty of BC to lose and still be a good performer.

 

[6brshooter]

You can stabilize a 95smk in 7.7tw and lower speeds? I'm at a lofty 375' asl, so I'm not well experienced with what higher altitude gains you, other than academics of it.

 

[JR1200W3]

You can stabilize a 95smk in 7.7tw and lower speeds? I'm at a lofty 375' asl, so I'm not well experienced with what higher altitude gains you, other than academics of it.

To be fair I've never shot the 95 SMK but plugging the numbers into Bergers stability calculator the SG does show it to be stable but with a 4% loss of BC at 2950fps. That's what I was getting at by mentioning the intersection of stability, twist rate, BC, and speed. At 300fps their calculator shows marginally stable with a 12% loss of BC.

 

[6brshooter]

I guess if nothing else shoots good in the heavy weights except 95smk in a given barrel, it would be viable in sub 2950 range. Do you know what the g7 is of the 95smk? All I'm seeing is the banded bc

 

[ncyotecaller]

I guess if nothing else shoots good in the heavy weights except 95smk in a given barrel, it would be viable in sub 2950 range. Do you know what the g7 is of the 95smk? All I'm seeing is the banded bc

My dope was true to 1260yds using .308 BC at 3080fps.

 

[PowPowHawg]

Who did your barrel?

Benchmark direct

 

[wildturkey2]

I know several folks including myself have been playing with the 22 creedmoor for a while now. Please keep this thread to actual reloading information, and if you can please post some round count, barrel life numbers are all over the place.

Here is a brief summary of the cartridge. You need to know that it is a laser beam and varmint vaporizer! The 22 creed feeds awesome out of a aics/aw mags, has increased case capacity, and can toss 80gr pills over 3400fps. Also, you can use youre existing creedmoor die sets with a different bushing and seater or call up whidden and get a custom set. Using 6mm creedmoor brass is the easiest way to make brass, but some have fireformed 22-250 brass into 22creed.

Please follow the format of

bullet/ weight/type
powder
charge weight
primer
velocity
barrel make, twist , length
round count on barrel
any other info, fowling, groups, effects on game or varmints

thanks for the information

Just shot 41 grains of h4350 no signs of pressure wonder if I could just jump to 42 grains or just go up a half of a grain using 6 cm lapua brass 450 primers 75 edlm bullets.

 

[wildturkey2]

Just shot 41 grains of h4350 no signs of pressure wonder if I could just jump to 42 grains or just go up a half of a grain using 6 cm lapua brass 450 primers 75 edlm bullets.

I will go half a grain play it safe

 

[wildturkey2]

80.5gn Berger Fullbore
43.0gn H4350
Fed210M
Unknown velocity as of now
Rock Creek 8tw @22"
Melonited Defiance Deviant Hunter
Chambered by Beanland
Running an SAS Barricade
Shooting multiple 1/4-1/2" groups in load development
Killed 3 yotes and 2 sows @ ~200# each from 90 to 306yds. Only one yote ran about 25yds, everything else never took another step.
about 50rds on the bbl

For brass you might look into Alpha Brass. I believe they will be doing a full production run of 22 Creedmoor in the next 45-60 days if not sooner.

I was breaking in my 22CM with lapua brass 41 grains of H4350 1/8 twist 75 grain edlm bullets don’t know the freebore forgot to ask gunsmith just told him to set it up with that bullet just wondering if I could jump to 42 gains or no . 41 grains showed no pressure signs .

 

[wildturkey2]

I was breaking in my 22CM with lapua brass 41 grains of H4350 1/8 twist 75 grain edlm bullets don’t know the freebore forgot to ask gunsmith just told him to set it up with that bullet just wondering if I could jump to 42 gains or no . 41 grains showed no pressure signs .

Sorry get old asked same question twice.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Sorry get old asked same question twice.

Too funny,

Seems like most land right around 42gr of H4350. I'm planning to start at 41, work up to 42gr with a 75 ELD as soon as Fritz is done with the barrel.

 

[wildturkey2]

Too funny,

Seems like most land right around 42gr of H4350. I'm planning to start at 41, work up to 42gr with a 75 ELD as soon as Fritz is done with the barrel.

Ok thanks

 

[wildturkey2]

For what this is worth, my load above shoots great with Hornady brass but as with most tinkers I wanted to try some loads using small rifle primers. I bought some Peterson 6 Creed brass ( seems to be very good brass) and have been trying to use RL26 with CCI 400 AND 450 primers and it's been very unfulfilling with wild velocity swings. I will try again later using faster burning powders but for now back to the proven.

what load & powder does anyone use for the berger 85.5 ?

 

[Taylorbok]

what load & powder does anyone use for the berger 85.5 ?

I use 4831sc or N560 with 90gr bergers

 

[wildturkey2]

I use 4831sc or N560 with 90gr bergers

ok thanks

 

[Shotafterdark]

I have had the most outstanding experience with The Urbanrifleman ....ordered my barrel for my 22 Creed on Saturday
a 1-7 and decided to give him a text and ask to change it to an 8 instead....He contacted me this morning and we talked for 90 minutes ....a super guy ... He literally contacted me 4 hours later with pics on my phone of my new barrel...
Barrel is 26" ...max speed..
He literally treated me like family and completed it immediately and mailed it overnite , I'll have it tomorrow...

anyway....I am gonna work up a load for the yotes .. Have superformance and Power Pro 2000 MR to play with
as well as WW760....Alpha Brass , Hornady 75 Gr ELD M , Sierra 69 Gr TMK ,

Anybody have any load data for these combos ??

 

[Shotafterdark]

After doing my research I thought I'd share a bit for others ...

Here is a link to Vihtavuori Load data site for 2 Creed....
If you have a powder and cannot find data for it in 22 Creed
determine what VVN powder has a similar burn rate and start
from their data and go low and slow upward...

In my case Power Pro 2000 MR is same as N550

so here is Sierra 69 GR TML

Bullet	4,5 g / 69 gr	Sierra, TMK	C.O.L. 64,5 mm / 2.539 inch
Powder	Starting load	Maximum load
Type	Weight	Velocity	Weight	Velocity
[g]	[grs]	[m/s]	[fps]	[g]	[grs]	[m/s]	[fps]
N550	2,10	32.4	958	3143	2,30	35.5	1018	3340
N555	2,41	37.2	977	3205	2,67	41.2	1046	3432
N160	2,21	34.1	934	3064	2,46	38.0	1005	3297
N165	2,48	38.3	964	3163	2,71	41.8	1029	3376
N560	2,50	38.6	993	3258	2,71	41.8	1037	3402
N565	2,52	38.9	958	3143	2,87	44.3	1035	3396
N570	2,60	40.1	960	3150	2,90C	44.8C	1024	3360

 

[Shotafterdark]

Here is a start for 75 grain ELD ...theirs is 77 Grain so it keeps you safe ..


The link has a TON of load data for 22 Creed.....check it out !

Rifle reloading data | Handloading | Rifle calibers | Centerfire Rifle bullets | Reload your own ammo - Vihtavuori

Vihtavuori offers rifle reloading data for numerous calibers and bullets for match and hunting purposes. Never exceed maximum loads.

www.vihtavuori.com

Bullet	5,0 g / 77 gr	Sierra, TMK	C.O.L. 66,5 mm / 2.618 inch
Powder	Starting load	Maximum load
Type	Weight	Velocity	Weight	Velocity
[g]	[grs]	[m/s]	[fps]	[g]	[grs]	[m/s]	[fps]
N550	2,35	36.3	929	3048	2,52	38.9	989	3245
N555	2,55	39.4	934	3064	2,75	42.4	999	3278
N160	2,47	38.1	903	2963	2,70	41.7	975	3199
N560	2,70	41.7	944	3097	2,88	44.4	1002	3287
N565	2,86	44.1	943	3094	3,00C	46.3C	991	3251

 

[Shotafterdark]

enjoy ! Burn rate chart to establish a start point .from VV powders...

 

[Shotafterdark]

The most extensive list I found...

 

[Heretic]

Heavy Sporter Criterion Prefit 24" 1 in 7" Twist, Savage 110 Action, MDT LSS Chassis
It was a 5 shot group, forgot to hit "ok" on the Xero for the 1st shot.
85F, 4000fasl, 33% humidity
None of the BLC-2 loads had a Std Dev lower than 15. H4350 gives lower SDs.

 

[Mark McIntire]

Lapua virgin
Sierra 65 game king
39 gr. Varget
Cci br4
3576 fps
Green mountain 20” 1-9 twist button rifled barrel
25 rounds down it. Should speed up

I am wanting to load 65 gr game kings as well, and have lots of IMR 4166 on hand. Does anyone have any load data for IMR 4166? Typically similar charge weights for Varget and IMR 4166 but want to be sure. Alpha LRP brass.

 

[Stangs55]

Collecting parts for a new build I plan to shoot suppressed 100% of the time.
Impact 737
Foundation Gideon

Some barrel questions…
1. Shooting 80-90s, what’s the verdict on twist? 7? 8? Somewhere in between?
2. Min barrel length? I’m thinking 22 with a TB Ultra 7 attached all the time. Anyone going 20 or shorter?

 

[JR1200W3]

Some barrel questions…
1. Shooting 80-90s, what’s the verdict on twist? 7? 8? Somewhere in between?

What altitude are you at?

 

[Stangs55]

Texas. 400 ft

 

[Jgunner]

Collecting parts for a new build I plan to shoot suppressed 100% of the time.
Impact 737
Foundation Gideon

Some barrel questions…
1. Shooting 80-90s, what’s the verdict on twist? 7? 8? Somewhere in between?
2. Min barrel length? I’m thinking 22 with a TB Ultra 7 attached all the time. Anyone going 20 or shorter?

1-8 is working great with 90 gr bergers and 88 eldm.

 

[JR1200W3]

Texas. 400 ft

90gr at 3250 in a 8" twist. 400ft elevation, 39°

Same in a 7" twist

 

[Landon4]

I’m running 95 smk’s out of a 6.5 twist 18” barrel

 

[Flea21]

I’m running a 26” barrel in 1:7 RH Twist… I had a custom reamer made by JGS for my first rebarrel. I figured it would be best to get ahead of things for when the time is right. The reamer arrived and I got the itch to have a barrel cut to have ready to go.

FYI.. current barrel has just over 600rds through it. It’s a REM Heavy Varmint Barrel 26” 7 Twist. The replacement barrel is 26” M24 7 Twist.

As far as bullets go, I used to shoot Berger 85.5gr LRHTs and then switched to 88gr ELD-Ms. They both shoot light out.

 

[JR1200W3]

I’m running a 26” barrel in 1:7 RH Twist… I had a custom reamer made by JGS for my first rebarrel. I figured it would be best to get ahead of things for when the time is right. The reamer arrived and I got the itch to have a barrel cut to have ready to go.

FYI.. current barrel has just over 600rds through it. It’s a REM Heavy Varmint Barrel 26” 7 Twist. The replacement barrel is 26” M24 7 Twist.

As far as bullets go, I used to shoot Berger 85.5gr LRHTs and then switched to 88gr ELD-Ms. They both shoot light out.

Why did you switch bullets?

I've been shooting the 85.5's in a 22GT and I've been super impressed with them. They are up there with the venable 105 Hybrids imo.

 

[Flea21]

Why did you switch bullets?

I've been shooting the 85.5's in a 22GT and I've been super impressed with them. They are up there with the venable 105 Hybrids imo.

Throat erosion.. I tied them when the barrel was new and I couldn’t get them to shoot good. I tried the Bergers then and it loved them. Fast forward 600rds and a little over .125” of throat erosion, I couldn’t chase the lands anymore and lost some accuracy so I revisited the 88s and they have a lot more bearing surface. I seat them .005 off the lands and get 3200fps with .25 moa or better. Now, the 88s perform the same or better than the 85.5s, performance numbers, BC etc. are the same or better and the price is less than half… that’s very hard to ignore for sure! So I switched to those and am shooting more for less with the same or better accuracy numbers.

Keep in mind though, every barrel is different and one may not like what another does. In this case, it didn’t like one over the other early in its life and later it flipped… I’m fine with that being that I can shoot twice as much for the same money.

 

[Sogan]

I’m running a 26” barrel in 1:7 RH Twist… I had a custom reamer made by JGS for my first rebarrel. I figured it would be best to get ahead of things for when the time is right. The reamer arrived and I got the itch to have a barrel cut to have ready to go.

FYI.. current barrel has just over 600rds through it. It’s a REM Heavy Varmint Barrel 26” 7 Twist. The replacement barrel is 26” M24 7 Twist.

As far as bullets go, I used to shoot Berger 85.5gr LRHTs and then switched to 88gr ELD-Ms. They both shoot light out.

What kind of barrel life are you seeing with the 22cm? Any worse than a 22-250?

 

[Flea21]

What kind of barrel life are you seeing with the 22cm? Any worse than a 22-250?

I haven’t burned through my first yet but made another barrel just in case. I don’t know the barrel life yet but have been documenting for when it’s done. From everything I hear, they’re around 1200-1800 depending on how you treat them of course. I don’t worry about it though, it’s like a sports car, you don’t look at the price of gas or the mileage, you just drive and enjoy the experience.

 

[4O6shootist]

Collecting parts for a new build I plan to shoot suppressed 100% of the time.
Impact 737
Foundation Gideon

Some barrel questions…
1. Shooting 80-90s, what’s the verdict on twist? 7? 8? Somewhere in between?
2. Min barrel length? I’m thinking 22 with a TB Ultra 7 attached all the time. Anyone going 20 or shorter?

I'm running an 18" 7.5tw 219 bore ace lt palma, always suppressed. More of a utilitarian hunting/target build at 10-11# all up. Shooting 88s and 90s, running 3100fps with H4350 or N555. I've had 3 22cm barrels now, 22in 8tw was the first, 2nd was 18in 7tw, this ones 18in 7.5tw.

 

[max1840]

I'm at 950' shooting 95 SMK's out of a 26" MTU PVA OBW 1:7 .219 bore. Shoots great @ 560 throughput.

 

[Coyote777]

Messing around with some Varget and the 73g Bergers. Barrel is a 16” 1-8t. Bergers just shoot.