.224 Valkyrie

[IHFarmer07]

[U]Subwrx300[/U]

How do you like the igage tools? I'm needing some tools like that and starret or mitutoyo are a long way out to purchasing just yet because of cost.

 

[Subwrx300]

[U]Subwrx300[/U]

How do you like the igage tools? I'm needing some tools like that and starret or mitutoyo are a long way out to purchasing just yet because of cost.

PM sent.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Silly question for those reloading 224 valk. What ammo containers are you using? I really like the 100 round MTM boxes with the handles but they don’t really hold the 224 well. 223 three containers are two small on diameter.

Check these out. I use them for my 6x6.8, which is essentially a Valkyrie in 6mm. They work great and they're cheap.

https://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Amm...d=1544105579&sr=8-1&keywords=7.62x39+ammo+box

Edit: I see someone else posted these same boxes. That's what I get for commenting before I finish the thread.

 

[Harleydog]

Hi all. New here and looking for a starting point for 80 eldm as far as powder. 20” 1-7twist craddock. Thanks in advance!

 

[Subwrx300]

Hi all. New here and looking for a starting point for 80 eldm as far as powder. 20” 1-7twist craddock. Thanks in advance!

While test doesn't include the 80 ELDM specifically, with CFE223, low SD nodes are around 26.2-26.6 (2815-2850 fps) for my barrel. Another node may be higher in the low 2900s but not sure I can get there safely. This is from a 26" barrel so you may need slightly more powder to get to the node.

Others have reported similar results with best node very near max charge. Seating depth changes would likely bring in group sizes quickly.

 

[Harleydog]

Looks like 2800-2815 is the place to be? What brand is the top 80g bullet? It’s been shooting 88 and 75 good, just bought 3 boxes of 80g to see how far down the rabbit hole I wanna go?! Thinking about starting at 26g and working up to get MV to 1800-1815

 

[Harleydog]

Oops. Smk. Sorry. Didn’t see that at first

 

[Harleydog]

Anyone else loading the 80eld? Kinda curious what varget does also?

 

[Subwrx300]

Oops. Smk. Sorry. Didn’t see that at first

Berger 80gr VLD seems to be pretty damn consistent across the board in each rifle I've used them in. For the money, it's probably worth the Berger's consistency over the SMK.

 

[IHFarmer07]

Ok I finally have some data to post for this thread:
Weather:
34*F
29.74 inHg
58% relative humidity
density altitude was going between ~1340-1416
overall length-2.318
base to ogive-1.764
.002 off the lands
Varget:
22.0gr
1-2473
2-2473
3-2501
4-2534
5-2464
average-2489
ES-70
SD-28
22.6gr
1-2574
2-2515
3-2525
4-2534
average-2537
ES-59
Sd-25
23gr
1-2599
2-2569
3-2588
4-2569
average-2581
ES-30
SD-14
Reloader 15
22.0gr
1-2415
2-2415
3-2419
4-2437
5-2442
average-2425
ES-27
SD-12
22.6
1-2433
2-2446
3-2460
4-2442
5-2450
average-2446
es-27
Sd-9
23gr
1-2520
2-2520
3-2492
4-2496
5-2482
average-2502
es-38
sd-17

What are your guys' thoughts.....es and sd isn't the best, thinking of going .010 off with the better of the loads then I may do the same loads with CCI450's after I get the 50rds I have primed with CCI400. Let me know, this is the first time reloading so any guidance would be appreciated.

 

[IHFarmer07]

 

[chavezz556]

 

[Subwrx300]

Ok I finally have some data to post for this thread:
Weather: base to ogive-1.764
34*F overall length-2.318
29.74 inHg .002 off the lands
58% relative humidity
density altitude was going between ~1340-1416
Varget:
22.0gr
1-2473
2-2473
3-2501
4-2534
5-2464
average-2489
ES-70
SD-28
22.6gr
1-2574
2-2515
3-2525
4-2534
average-2537
ES-59
Sd-25
23gr
1-2599
2-2569
3-2588
4-2569
average-2581
ES-30
SD-14
Reloader 15
22.0gr
1-2415
2-2415
3-2419
4-2437
5-2442
average-2425
ES-27
SD-12
22.6
1-2433
2-2446
3-2460
4-2442
5-2450
average-2446
es-27
Sd-9
23gr
1-2520
2-2520
3-2492
4-2496
5-2482
average-2502
es-38
sd-17

What are your guys' thoughts.....es and sd isn't the best, thinking of going .010 off with the better of the loads then I may do the same loads with CCI450's after I get the 50rds I have primed with CCI400. Let me know, this is the first time reloading so any guidance would be appreciated.

You've got another .5-.8 grains before getting near max pressure (according to book). Did you get significant pressure signs at the highest loads shown? If not, I'd try loading up and slightly over past max to see if SDs come down and your velocity should jump another 50-75+ fps.

And don't change seating depth yet. Use the same -.075 off lands until you find peak pressure, then you can run seating depth forward in .010 increments with the best SD load to see if you can tighten groups.

My .02 cents anyway. Good post!

 

[chavezz556]

Anyone else running a 20" 1/7?

If so what velocities are you getting out of the 88's or factory 75's?

 

[IHFarmer07]

You've got another .5-.8 grains before getting near max pressure (according to book). Did you get significant pressure signs at the highest loads shown? If not, I'd try loading up and slightly over past max to see if SDs come down and your velocity should jump another 50-75+ fps.

And don't change seating depth yet. Use the same -.075 off lands until you find peak pressure, then you can run seating depth forward in .010 increments with the best SD load to see if you can tighten groups.

My .02 cents anyway. Good post!

Yeah I was going to load some more tonight and take the loads up that showed good accuracy but warmth and good movies kept me from loading more, so tomorrow morning loading and then sometime tomorrow shoot hopefully again lol. No significant pressure signs yet, when I loaded my very first rounds and shot them during the week they was loaded on the very low end and top end and the primers on the top end was starting to crater a little. I didn't get any data on speed or anything because a damn cloud covered right when I was ready to shoot and the crono would not pick anything up. I modified the crono now with lights and picks up great now.
I'm only .002" off lands,
Thanks Subwrx300, appreciate it!

 

[Subwrx300]

Yeah I was going to load some more tonight and take the loads up that showed good accuracy but warmth and good movies kept me from loading more, so tomorrow morning loading and then sometime tomorrow shoot hopefully again lol. No significant pressure signs yet, when I loaded my very first rounds and shot them during the week they was loaded on the very low end and top end and the primers on the top end was starting to crater a little. I didn't get any data on speed or anything because a damn cloud covered right when I was ready to shoot and the crono would not pick anything up. I modified the crono now with lights and picks up great now.
I'm only .002" off lands,
Thanks Subwrx300, appreciate it!

Is this a bolt gun or semi-auto? If it's a semi-auto, I would strongly encourage you to seat bullets further off lands than .002. A semi auto loading the next round (which comes to an abrupt halt in chamber) can slightly unseat bullets, which would possibly push bullet into lands creating MUCH higher pressure.

Also Ogive shape variation (.001-002 in some lots) could cause a few bullets to be closer to the lands and also cause high pressure issue.

This could easily be the reason for your high SD numbers. I would seat at a minimum of .005" to .010" off lands for any semiauto. Bolt guns can be loaded closer but not usually advisable for field guns (i.e. anything other than benchrest guns).

 

[IHFarmer07]

Is this a bolt gun or semi-auto? If it's a semi-auto, I would strongly encourage you to seat bullets further off lands than .002. A semi auto loading the next round (which comes to an abrupt halt in chamber) can slightly unseat bullets, which would possibly push bullet into lands creating MUCH higher pressure.

Also Ogive shape variation (.001-002 in some lots) could cause a few bullets to be closer to the lands and also cause high pressure issue.

This could easily be the reason for your high SD numbers. I would seat at a minimum of .005" to .010" off lands for any semiauto. Bolt guns can be loaded closer but not usually advisable for field guns (i.e. anything other than benchrest guns).

It’s a bolt gun, I think I’ll load more of what looks good but .010” off the lands. Does that sound like a good idea?

 

[Subwrx300]

It’s a bolt gun, I think I’ll load more of what looks good but .010” off the lands. Does that sound like a good idea?

I shoot a semi-auto but .020 and .070 shot well in my rifle with CFE. I'd tinker with powder/SD first then move to seating depth but .005- .010 off is a good place to start to avoid any possible pressure issues, just know that pressure will increase slightly as you seat deeper.

So if you find good node at max charge .010 off lands, when start running seating depth test, each increment deeper will be slightly higher pressure. Plus it's winter so temps are cool compared to summer heat (pressure will increase in same load during summer).

 

[IHFarmer07]

I shoot a semi-auto but .020 and .070 shot well in my rifle with CFE. I'd tinker with powder/SD first then move to seating depth but .005- .010 off is a good place to start to avoid any possible pressure issues, just know that pressure will increase slightly as you seat deeper.

So if you find good node at max charge .010 off lands, when start running seating depth test, each increment deeper will be slightly higher pressure. Plus it's winter so temps are cool compared to summer heat (pressure will increase in same load during summer).

Ok, thanks.
I think what I’ll do is I’ll leave seating depth alone until I go up to max load and see what I get at .002”. Then I’ll go where I was getting good accuracy and start .005”, .010”, .015 ect. off the lands and go from there.

 

[IHFarmer07]

Round 2 of reloading, I decided to just do one powder to simplify. I started to see ejector marks and cracks in necks in some, mainly in the ones with CCI400 primers. The shells have been FL sized, necks turned on the second loading and on the third, just neck sized.

Loads with CCI400 and varget
23.6gr .002 off, Coal-2.318" BTO-1.764
av-2665
es-90
sd-33
.635 ctc
22.6gr .005 off, coal-2.315" BTO-1.761
av-2613
es-62
sd-26
.900" ctc
23.6gr .005 off, coal-2.315 BTO-1.761
av-2770
es-93
sd-42
1.230 ctc
22.6gr .010"off, coal-2.310 BTO-1.756
av-2584
es-139
sd-63
.605" ctc

Loads with varget and CCI 450
22.6gr .002 off, coal-2.315 BTO-1.764
av-2590
es-35
sd-18
.605 ctc
22.6gr .010 off, coal-2.310 BTO-1.756
av-2575
es-60
sd-26
.765 ctc
23.6gr .010 off, coal-2.310 BTO-1.756
av-2737
es-68
sd-28
.460 ctc
23.6gr .005 off, coal-2.315 BTO-1.761
av-2714
es-163
sd-73
1.355 ctc

 

[IHFarmer07]

 

[Subwrx300]

Round 2 of reloading, I decided to just do one powder to simplify. I started to see ejector marks and cracks in necks in some, mainly in the ones with CCI400 primers

Loads with CCI400 and varget
23.6gr .002 off, Coal-2.318" BTO-1.764
av-2665
es-90
sd-33
.635 ctc
22.6gr .005 off, coal-2.315" BTO-1.761
av-2613
es-62
sd-26
.900" ctc
23.6gr .005 off, coal-2.315 BTO-1.761
av-2770
es-93
sd-42
1.230 ctc
22.6gr .010"off, coal-2.310 BTO-1.756
av-2584
es-139
sd-63
.605" ctc

Loads with varget and CCI 450
22.6gr .002 off, coal-2.315 BTO-1.764
av-2590
es-35
sd-18
.605 ctc
22.6gr .010 off, coal-2.310 BTO-1.756
av-2575
es-60
sd-26
.765 ctc
23.6gr .010 off, coal-2.310 BTO-1.756
av-2737
es-68
sd-28
.460 ctc
23.6gr .005 off, coal-2.315 BTO-1.761
av-2714
es-163
sd-73
1.355 ctc

Wow. Those are some crazy SDs. I'd start looking at another powder if you can (most likely slower). Doesn't seem to be working in your favor. Maybe H4350 (but velocities will most likely suck) or something in between Varget and H4350: CFE223, BLC-2, Reloader 15 (I think) or maybe MR2000.

But a couple of questions before you do (and please don't take offense; I'm asking because, honestly, those loads are easily some of the highest SD/ES I've seen posted here from a bolt gun.)

1)Do you reload for other cartridges?
2)If YES, do you get similar SD/ES?
3)If YES to #2, how are you throwing/weighing your powder charges?

 

[IHFarmer07]

Wow. Those are some crazy SDs. I'd start looking at another powder if you can (most likely slower). Doesn't seem to be working in your favor. Maybe H4350 (but velocities will most likely suck) or something in between Varget and H4350: CFE223, BLC-2, Reloader 15 (I think) or maybe MR2000.

But a couple of questions before you do (and please don't take offense; I'm asking because, honestly, those loads are easily some of the highest SD/ES I've seen posted here from a bolt gun.)

1)Do you reload for other cartridges?
2)If YES, do you get similar SD/ES?
3)If YES to #2, how are you throwing/weighing your powder charges?

I know right!!! I'm going to try reloader 15 and probably get some cfe223.

No that's alright your just trying to help.....and I sure the hell don't know whats going on lol
1) No
2) NA
3) I weigh out each load individually to the nats ass, that I don't skimp on that...now since I'm kind of new to reloading and this may or may not be a stupid question....should I be cleaning the brass every time?

 

[Randy_Lahey]

Has anyone tried Winchester 760 or Superformance in .224 Val?

 

[IHFarmer07]

Has anyone tried Winchester 760 or Superformance in .224 Val?

Not sure...I don't remember seeing anyone using those

 

[IHFarmer07]

I'm starting to think that this barrel being the 1-6.5 twist is going to defiantly be a different cat altogether. I haven't really seen too many others have any reloading info for the 1-6.5 barrels, so subwrx300 you may be onto something with powders.....unless my scale is f ing this all up, I always calibrate the scale1-2 times in a setting and always when I bump, move it.

 

[Randy_Lahey]

Not sure...I don't remember seeing anyone using those

I may look into this. I have a bit of each and was wondering if I could cram enough in for 80/88gr ELD-M's to fly right.

 

[lash]

Others loading successfully for 224V have seen success with CFE223. I have not started loading for this yet, as mine is shooting factory 88s well enough so far and I am busy enough loading for my .260 right now.

I did, however, pick up 8 lbs of CFE223 for future use.

 

[IHFarmer07]

Others loading successfully for 224V have seen success with CFE223. I have not started loading for this yet, as mine is shooting factory 88s well enough so far and I am busy enough loading for my .260 right now.

I did, however, pick up 8 lbs of CFE223 for future use.

Yeah I’m probably going to get some.....I’m about out of bullets now and have more on the way but I’m going to be trying reloader 15 as well, then move to cfe223

 

[JM4590]

Has anyone tried Winchester 760 or Superformance in .224 Val?

I have tried Superformance with 88 ELDs....I couldn’t get it to work....but may have been just me. If you live in NVA, I have some I will give you

 

[Mullhead]

Has anyone tried 4166 with the 88’s?

 

[lash]

I have tried Superformance with 88 ELDs....I couldn’t get it to work....but may have been just me. If you live in NVA, I have some I will give you

If I was nearer, I would take you up on it. It works well for .30-06.

 

[Harleydog]

Anyone loading the 85rdf? I did a lot of measurements today and looks like a COL of 2.240 puts me at the lands because of the different profile. 88 eldm at 2.260 gives me .080” jump. Could work better later for seating tests? Anyone?

 

[Harleydog]

Just a side note, 80elds have .080” jump at 2.260” col also.

 

[aslrookie]

I have a 24” 1:7 gas gun that shoots the factory 88 and 75gr pretty well. I don’t have any reloading equipment anymore because i sold it off after losing interest in bulk reloading.

Is there a significant difference between habdloading 88s or even 80s? My intention would be to just buy starline brass and load them up. I wouldn’t worry about picking up brass and reloading. Just looking for 1 time max performance use.

 

[Subwrx300]

I have a 24” 1:7 gas gun that shoots the factory 88 and 75gr pretty well. I don’t have any reloading equipment anymore because i sold it off after losing interest in bulk reloading.

Is there a significant difference between habdloading 88s or even 80s? My intention would be to just buy starline brass and load them up. I wouldn’t worry about picking up brass and reloading. Just looking for 1 time max performance use.

Well for comparison, factory Hornady is around 2700-2720 in my 26" barrel. My handloads can push up to 2800+. So is it worth the extra work?

Depends on your definition of "worth it". If your rifle is shooting less than .5, probably not worth it. If less than 1moa, possibly worth effort but mainly for consistency. The added velocity (potentially) could be useful if maxing out range for cartidge.

But if your going to dump the brass after firing, I'd stick with factory. Too much time involved in addition to the same cost as factory ammo.

 

[aslrookie]

What about the 80gr eld? Are they performing better at distance since they have more velocity and less time of flight?

 

[Winchester59]

Do most people use regular or small-based dies when loading for an AR?

 

[aslrookie]

Regular, small base isn’t needed in my opinion. More stress on the brass than needed.

 

[Lesco Brandon]

I shot my craddock precision for the 1st time today. No load development, just tested .5g increments of CFE223 on the lands. 5 shots @100 yards. 77g Sierra tipped over 26.5g of CFE223. I’m sold.

 

[GrandpaDeadLegs]

I shot my craddock precision for the 1st time today. No load development, just tested .5g increments of CFE223 on the lands. 5 shots @100 yards. 77g Sierra tipped over 26.5g of CFE223. I’m sold.

See guys life doesn't have to be so hard - I could deal with this loading approach, maybe should start looking into it since my pile of brass groweth... Or who wants to buy my brass and save me the hassle ?

 

[IHFarmer07]

I think I’m done with varget for now which sucks because it’s temp stable.....the es, sd numbers just suck for me and my rifle. Would different primers help?
I’ve done more case work with varget and still not so good numbers, I’m at my max charge and starting to see ejection swipes.

Going to try reloader 15 and cfe223, sure wish varget worked because it is temp stable.
Has anyone had issues with cfe being inconsistent as far as es, sd numbers and speed?

 

[MasterOfPupets]

I've heard good things from people about H4895 being used with the heavier bullets. Hodgdon doesn't give any data for it, but it's supposed to perform around the velocity of cfe 223 but with the temp stability of other hodgdon extreme powders.

 

[IHFarmer07]

I've heard good things from people about H4895 being used with the heavier bullets. Hodgdon doesn't give any data for it, but it's supposed to perform around the velocity of cfe 223 but with the temp stability of other hodgdon extreme powders.

Lol damn it!!! Another powder to get sometime! Do you have any load data, velocities, ect with loads built using H4895?
Thanks for the reply.

 

[MasterOfPupets]

I haven't started building mine. So I dont have any personal data to share. If you get on Facebook, there is a group called 224 Valkyrie Reloaders that if you search there you'll see a ton of great info.

 

[IHFarmer07]

I haven't started building mine. So I dont have any personal data to share. If you get on Facebook, there is a group called 224 Valkyrie Reloaders that if you search there you'll see a ton of great info.

Ok thank you. Ya I’m there on FB as well.

 

[aslrookie]

View attachment 6987079View attachment 6987078View attachment 6987077

I think I’m done with varget for now which sucks because it’s temp stable.....the es, sd numbers just suck for me and my rifle. Would different primers help?
I’ve done more case work with varget and still not so good numbers, I’m at my max charge and starting to see ejection swipes.

Going to try reloader 15 and cfe223, sure wish varget worked because it is temp stable.
Has anyone had issues with cfe being inconsistent as far as es, sd numbers and speed?

What app is that on your phone?

 

[Lesco Brandon]

I think I’m done with varget for now which sucks because it’s temp stable.....the es, sd numbers just suck for me and my rifle. Would different primers help?
I’ve done more case work with varget and still not so good numbers, I’m at my max charge and starting to see ejection swipes.

Going to try reloader 15 and cfe223, sure wish varget worked because it is temp stable.
Has anyone had issues with cfe being inconsistent as far as es, sd numbers and speed?

I have experienced extreme variations in speed with CFE223, like 200 + fps variations with the same charge. Im interested in trying Re 16

 

[lash]

Yesterday you posted this. What speeds were you getting?

I shot my craddock precision for the 1st time today. No load development, just tested .5g increments of CFE223 on the lands. 5 shots @100 yards. 77g Sierra tipped over 26.5g of CFE223. I’m sold.

Today you post this:

I have experienced extreme variations in speed with CFE223, like 200 + fps variations with the same charge. Im interested in trying Re 16

Can you explain the sudden reversal of opinion between yesterday and today?

 

[IHFarmer07]

What app is that on your phone?

SubMOA.....takes a bit of practice to figure out what you do first to get measurements and such.