-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
.224 Valkyrie
- Thread starter Niles Coyote
- Start date
The problem with the 88 ELD is those long bullets don’t handle the transonic region as well as the Berger’s, which are a shorter bullet.
The 80 gr Berger VLD’s seem to be a good compromise. The BC is a little lower, but they tend to be more stable past 1000 yards in my 18” gas gun, and the accuracy is good.
I'm not too concerned past 1000 yards as I rarely shoot that far nor are there many stages in matches around here that far out.
I did run some 88s today with H4350 and had some groups around 1MOA. Going to play with seating depth tomorrow to see if I can shrink those groups down any. Velocity wasn't too impressive, and there's no way to get any more powder in the case. Even so, I will take 2600ish FPS with an 88gr bullet.
Went to a gun show today hoping to score a pound of 4895 or something else I could try, but had no luck. Instead, I ordered 100 90SMk to play with.
The whole point of 224V IMO is to run the heavy bullets. So I'm hoping if I play around long enough, I will eventually find something that shoots. Every squirrel eventually finds a nut...
No it’s a 24 Nosler. You would have to push the shoulders back a mile on a 22 Nosler
I'd really like to know where claims like this begin.
Yes it is easier to get 80s to fly in common chambers straight simply because they are shorter. But this stability claim at transonic? I would really like to know what truly objective data supports such a statement.
The BC advantage of the 88 extends the transonic range well past where the 80 drops into transonic... so the math just does not work. In simple terms we are comparing a 0.455 G1 BC 80 to a 0.545 BC 88... so whatever speed a .455 bullet is going at 455 yards, the 88 will be going at 545 yards... We can expand on that to twice the distance... that the 0.455 bc at 910 yards will equal the speed of the 0.545 BC round at 1090 yards... At this point the 88 grain bullet is almost 200 yards past the 80. and going the same speed. (yes this is just fast math and yes the 88s will not be going as fast as the 80s but the point is close enough)
So if what this claim states is true... you are really saying that the 88 begins to have trouble at a point where it has already gone 200 yards further and yet somehow, the 80 is better... I'm not following this in the least.
We are not even getting into the wind drift differences yet so I will touch on that... The wind drift in MOA or Mils of the 88 at 1090 will be equal to the wind drift of the 80 at 910 yards. That's a big one. Feel free to check my math, that how BC works.
Now, I will say that you do need an appropriate chamber to run 88s... in particular a long tight throat to accurately drive and guide the 88s, but the transonic thing is just not working for me. More than likely this story is born of some inconclusive observation made by a guy trying to run the long 88s out of a short throated rifle and jumped to the wrong conclusion for the wrong reasons.
I've used 80s for more than 20 years and I have a couple thousand that are just gathering dust now that I put together a proper rifle for 88s. I'm looking for an excuse to use 80s, but never do. It's all 88s and 90s these days for me.
Run those 88s out of a rifle with 0.200" freebore and get back to me on this.
Last edited:
The tight…..not so much…… the long……absofreakinlutely.
Never could find a 5 round magazine for 224 Valkyrie bolt gun. 8 rounder too long for bench shooting and hunting situations.
Finally too the plunge an cut one down. Holds 4 rounds with 1 coil (1 V) of the spring cut off.
Love the final product.
Finally too the plunge an cut one down. Holds 4 rounds with 1 coil (1 V) of the spring cut off.
Love the final product.
Last edited:
So, I had a similar issue. I was using H4895 and CFE223 and just couldn't get the 80gr bullets to group. Numbers we're good on Velocity and SD, but groups just weren't there. I found my sweet spot by ditching the 80 gr bullets and going both up (88gr) and down (75gr)
I found a great grouping load with 75gr ELDs using H4895, but had to stop shooting it since I can't find H4895, and now I found a great grouping load with 88gr ELDs and Varget, which I can find plenty of both (albeit more expensive than the old days...)
YMMV, but sometimes you need to just try something new. Maybe the harmonics of your barrel just don't like the 80s.
I'm also running 27.0gr of CFE223 but out of an AR with PSA 20" barrel. The rifle does have a full JP bolt setup and a SA adjustable gas block tuned for this load. I know this is really pushing it but damn it does shoot great. Took it out a few weeks ago in horrific wind and dust conditions. Ended up with 3.1 mils of elevation and .8 mils of windage to hit a 6" plate at 563 yards. Was able to hit it 1 out 3 shot consistently. Impressive given the conditions!
Berger 80.5 at 2904 fps.
So far I have tried 88 elds, 80.5 bergers, 75gr eld, 80gr eld and I just ordered some 90gr SMK and 85.5 Bergers. I have tested with both CFE and H4350. I need some varget or 4895. H4350 shrunk almost all my groups to about 1 moa.
I was getting a load for the 112MB in 6GT, switching back and forth between my bolt gun and 224V gas gun to let them cool. I will say, going back and forth between the guns makes shooting groups harder, but as you can see I'm around 1 to 1.5 MOA with every 224V load. All these were jammed .01" as i hadnt tried that yet.
Got a nice group with the 6GT within the first 20 rounds, but that's about normal....
Just wanted to clarify what I observed, and yes an 18” barrel is a handicap past 1000 yards.
Do you agree that some bullets handle passing through the transonic region better than others?
Shooting the 88 gr ELDs with H4350 sacrifices a lot of velocity over say CFE, but H4350 does group better in my rifle.
Shooting an 80 gr Berger VLD with CFE, that bullet goes transonic at about 1000 yards at sea level with my powder load.
Shooting an 88 gr ELD with H4350, that bullet also starts to go transonic at about 1000 yards with my original load.
My target was at 1025 yards and I observed inconsistent impacts that I did not see with the 80 gr VLDs.
When I changed the powder and shot the 88 gr ELDs with CFE, I was seeing about another 100 fps. My 100 yard group size increased.
But by keeping the 88 gr ELDs out of the transonic range, the bullet impacts seemed more consistent and my hit rate improved.
Other opinions are welcome, however, that is what some guy observed.
Last edited:
If we unpack some your statements, we need to be careful that we are drawing the right conclusions for the right reasons.
An 18 inch barrel is absolutely a handicap long before 1000 yards. Try shooting F Class with it (not big steel plates) and record actual groups and you will see things degrade abruptly past about 800 yards. You have to have your technicals really right to stay tight to 1000 yards. Tight meaning F Class tight and you will not be there with 18 inches.
You are saying the 88s don't group well at 100 and that is a telling point... You are blaming the bullet for this and not your rifle... more specifically your chamber. High BC bullets are invariably longer. Longer bullets need to enter the rifling straight to get good accuracy. You cannot get that done without a correct chamber with a long seating depth with at least 0.200" freebore.
What does that freebore length do for you?
It increases case capacity for one, that allows higher muzzle velocities without an increase in chamber pressure.
As for accuracy, this is probably the more important advantage... With the long seating depth more of the bearing surface of the bullet is exposed. If your throat diameter is nice and tight, that bearing surface will be utilized to guide the long bullet into the rifling nice and straight. This will significantly improve your accuracy, and it will also reduce your velocity spreads.
If you combine the above with tight necks and turn the necks to a minimal clearance, the brass can be used to provide further guidance in ensuring the long bullets enter the rifling nice and straight.
Keep in mind that jamming the lands only ensures the front of the bullet is centered to the rifling.... I'm talking about the ass end of the bullet that needs to be guided.
Everything I'm saying here has been well proven over the years, but for some odd reason has never been translated back to any of the 223 based platforms which are invariably designed around unreasonably short COAL, hence the birth of such claims as how our conversation started.
The 224 Valkyrie is in my opinion a potential monster for long range performance if it is chambered correctly and has a throat as described here. It has all the horsepower needed to drive the 88s and 90s, but you need the throat to make that happen.
If your throat is short, you are certainly limiting your bullet selection, but be careful not to project failure onto a problem with the bullet and not attribute the problem to your throat.
If you have a short throat it is entirely likely that 80s are the best you can run. But not because of a problem with heavier bullets. Its just a limitation of the short chamber and short barrel you happen to have, that's all.
As a visual aid, have a look at a 6 BR.... The case is ridiculously short but that allows the bullets to be seated ridiculously long. Take a look at reamer prints for 6 BR and you will see something you wont find on 224 Valk reamers. Put the neck and throat of a 6 BR in front of a 224 Valk and you will have essentially what I'm describing. Freebores are long and tight, and to run 88s and 90s you need longer and as tight as possible without being too tight.
Last edited:
Found a couple pounds of varget to try and I think I'm finally on to something.
The 90 SMK and the 88 ELD both seem to like the varget. I have them seated just so they are touching the lands if not a couple thousandths off. The 90gr SMK were giving me great SDs and they will fit in a standard mag. Those were the first 15 bullets I have tried of those and I bet I can clean that up with seating depth changes. I will have to use a windowed mag for the 88s, but FINALLY I think I have something that will work. Wish I would have tried varget awhile ago, and it was easier to get.
The bottom left group I pulled one shot really bad. Plus for some reason the mirage was horrible today and even at 100 yards my reticle center dot was dancing all around at times. I'm sure some of these groups could be cleaned up a little atleast.
I just got some and was hoping to load them up tomorrow. I'm really curious about that combo.
Taking the 85.5 ‘s for a test shoot this weekend. Distances out to 1100. Will report back results. Nice little groups at 100 are sexy, but if it all goes to hell at distance, it ain’t for shit!
Best of luck! I had to fall back to 80.5's as I just could not get the 85.5's to group consistently. I suspect my 20" 1-7 twist shit barrel was just on the edge of being able to stabilize them. Sadness when I came to that realization. The 85.5 are bad ass.
Im shooting 88-90 grain from a 22” barrel, 1:7 twist and they stabilize fine. We shoot out to 700 yards here. Its like 9/10 on MOA sized targets at 500 yards. All factory ammo. My daughters gun. She shoots it well.
The 1:7 even shoots the 95 SMK. Have not shot that one to distance.
Run your bullet and velocity in the Berger stabilizing calculator. Too much drama and speculation around the 224 Valk and twist rate for heavies.
My 22-250 shoots the 88-90 grain as well in a 7 twist barrel.
I had same issue with 85.5s in my 7 twist but it shoots the 80.5s lights out, and without drama.
Sorry, I wasn’t implying drama with you or your comments. Just followed the 224:from inception and between the bad barrel chambers and Federal jacking with the 90 SMK’s, lots of rumor, theories, shady facts etc were stirring about heavily. I know for a fact a 1:7 is fine. Nothing wring with a 1:6.5 or 1:6.7 etc.
My daughters bolt gun is so good I will not part with it. I can reload 224 Valk and do some for my son’s AR. Now that thing is a different story. 2 barrels. Running a Bartlein 7 twist CLE barrrel. Not sire about chamber. I have the bolt gun reamer so I know exactly what it is. The AR is about MOA give or take. It will shoot 5/8 MOA with a load I worked up. Still tinkering with it. Still fun at 500 yards and plenty accurate for my son. Just doesn’t meet my expectations.
No worries Elite_KG. I have an early PSA barrel that was literally given to me so its quite possible it suffers from the early chamber issues. IDK. Just had to settle on the 80.5's or lose my mind! That said, the Valkire has grown on me and thinking about giving it another whirl with a quality barrel.
A lot of “depends” on all this. Depends on what length barrel, depends on what chamber, depends on how fast one can drive said pills, depends on whether you wear your special bikini underware to the front or back while shooting ( like a thong myself). 
appreciate all the input and world experiences. I will post results of MY real world experience with the 85.5’s Sunday eve.
appreciate all the input and world experiences. I will post results of MY real world experience with the 85.5’s Sunday eve.
Ok, so as promised, the results of the Valkyrie and the 85.5 Berger bullets. This outing was using the load that I had previously posted a pic, and the data there in. Conditions here in Va today was HOT! 87-90 deg and humidity of 80% +. Overcast skies. About 430’ above sea level. No wind today, so bonus for me!
I shot the second relay around 10AM.
I had not taken this load out to distance, only 100yds indoor. Plugged the data from Berger as far as BC and bullet measurement , and Magneto Speed into the Kestrel, and let her eat.
The accompanying photos show targets and distances, as well as target size. They also show, according to spotter info, approximately where I hit. This is TOTALY a friendly match, and only prize is bragging rights among the small group of shooters, so spotter marks are approx, but generally reliable.
So one thing that stands out is that Valkyrie does not like to kill juice jugs! I shot three relays today and I think I only hit one, and that was with my 6.5x47. Guess Valkyrie has a soft spot for juice jugs? I shot another relay with the Valkyrie and smoked both eggs. So it is accurate and to anyone who doubts higher power scopes- get the 7-35 NF ATACAR! Made a huge diff on the eggs. And while I’m at it….I have an ATACAR on the 6.5x47. It is a 5x25. The glass in the 35x is much clearer to me than the 25x. Anyone know what’s up wit dat? Maybe just me….but I digress.
There is a dude in this thread , Diver something or other, who recommended I try the 85.5’s. I thought he was full of it. 80.5 at 3000+ is where it’s at! No wait, 90grn A-Tips at 2800 is where it’s at. Maybe 90 Grn Sierras?
Gentlemen and ladies, I’m here to tell you, if you can push the 85.5’s at around 2800 or more, it’s fn money!! The dope today was spot on +\- .2. Only targets I missed were the two juice jugs and one egg. I mean come on, an fn egg at 200yds. The juice jugs were totally me. When I sighted in on them the dot in my scope was jumping with every heart beat. I need a better rear bag arrangement to hold that crap rock solid.
This is all from a bolt gun with a brake. Hit me up if you want to know who built it. This is my new match gun. You have to be willing to give up hits at distance because the spotter can’t see it, and because low energy on impact won’t rock the target. On a cpl targets today the reason I got the hit is because they moved a bit when I shot. Valkyrie won’t rock the steel like the 300 Win Mag. It’s a stealth hitter. Sneaks in under cover and love taps the death punch.
I’ve got 6.5x47, 6.5SAUM, 6x47, .308, and am in therapy for the 6.5 Grendel (that POS). I’m telling you, this is my new match gun.
Now, someone shoot this thing suppressed so I can know whether to leave it with a brake or shoot suppressed.
I shot the second relay around 10AM.
I had not taken this load out to distance, only 100yds indoor. Plugged the data from Berger as far as BC and bullet measurement , and Magneto Speed into the Kestrel, and let her eat.
The accompanying photos show targets and distances, as well as target size. They also show, according to spotter info, approximately where I hit. This is TOTALY a friendly match, and only prize is bragging rights among the small group of shooters, so spotter marks are approx, but generally reliable.
So one thing that stands out is that Valkyrie does not like to kill juice jugs! I shot three relays today and I think I only hit one, and that was with my 6.5x47. Guess Valkyrie has a soft spot for juice jugs? I shot another relay with the Valkyrie and smoked both eggs. So it is accurate and to anyone who doubts higher power scopes- get the 7-35 NF ATACAR! Made a huge diff on the eggs. And while I’m at it….I have an ATACAR on the 6.5x47. It is a 5x25. The glass in the 35x is much clearer to me than the 25x. Anyone know what’s up wit dat? Maybe just me….but I digress.
There is a dude in this thread , Diver something or other, who recommended I try the 85.5’s. I thought he was full of it. 80.5 at 3000+ is where it’s at! No wait, 90grn A-Tips at 2800 is where it’s at. Maybe 90 Grn Sierras?
Gentlemen and ladies, I’m here to tell you, if you can push the 85.5’s at around 2800 or more, it’s fn money!! The dope today was spot on +\- .2. Only targets I missed were the two juice jugs and one egg. I mean come on, an fn egg at 200yds. The juice jugs were totally me. When I sighted in on them the dot in my scope was jumping with every heart beat. I need a better rear bag arrangement to hold that crap rock solid.
This is all from a bolt gun with a brake. Hit me up if you want to know who built it. This is my new match gun. You have to be willing to give up hits at distance because the spotter can’t see it, and because low energy on impact won’t rock the target. On a cpl targets today the reason I got the hit is because they moved a bit when I shot. Valkyrie won’t rock the steel like the 300 Win Mag. It’s a stealth hitter. Sneaks in under cover and love taps the death punch.
I’ve got 6.5x47, 6.5SAUM, 6x47, .308, and am in therapy for the 6.5 Grendel (that POS). I’m telling you, this is my new match gun.
Now, someone shoot this thing suppressed so I can know whether to leave it with a brake or shoot suppressed.
Attachments
Thanks for that detailed review. It was very much appreciated from my point of view. I’m going to have to try out that load now.
I agree with your comparison of the Atacrs too. The 7-35 is worth the coin, but I can take or leave the 5-25. Probably leave it for that money.
As to a new rear bag, may I suggest one of the Precision Underground ELR bags? Either the ELRx or the ELR Pro. I have purchased two of the ELR Pro so far and given them both away to experienced shooter friends of mine because they loved them so much. Now I have to buy a third one. Another piece of gear that is totally worth it for prone or bench shooting imo.
precisionundergroundriflegear.com
I agree with your comparison of the Atacrs too. The 7-35 is worth the coin, but I can take or leave the 5-25. Probably leave it for that money.
As to a new rear bag, may I suggest one of the Precision Underground ELR bags? Either the ELRx or the ELR Pro. I have purchased two of the ELR Pro so far and given them both away to experienced shooter friends of mine because they loved them so much. Now I have to buy a third one. Another piece of gear that is totally worth it for prone or bench shooting imo.
EL-Rx Rear Bag
Super stable. Super tactical. QD attachment optional.
precisionundergroundriflegear.com
Another one that works well.....
25gr XBR, 85.5gr berger, starline brass and 205m primers 1.850 to ogive.
2896fps, sd 8
26" 1:7 Mueller Works 4 groove
I have one for StaBall as well.
I’ve been shooting it suppressed for a few years and in my opinion it’s one of the best parts about the cartridge. It barely even gets hot! Highly recommended and you get the bonus of a few extra fps.
Some RL 15.5 data. preliminary test to get close. loaded on a fx120.
fed brass weight sorted. 1x fired. cci400. 20in criterion barrel/ craddock upper. also loaded but not able to get speeds for 23.5gr with 80.5 bergers. magneto on the end of the barrel so not concerned with groups that much but the noslers held a nice tight group.
berger 80.5 .020 off lands
24.0 gr RL15.5
2637
2659
2644
2627
24.5gr RL15.5
2714
2717
2716
2761 - not sure why this is way off but was first rd in the mag
Nosler 85 RDF .020 off lands
23.5gr RL15.5
2588
2598
2578
2568
24.0 gr RL15.5
2659
2649
2662
2664
fed brass weight sorted. 1x fired. cci400. 20in criterion barrel/ craddock upper. also loaded but not able to get speeds for 23.5gr with 80.5 bergers. magneto on the end of the barrel so not concerned with groups that much but the noslers held a nice tight group.
berger 80.5 .020 off lands
24.0 gr RL15.5
2637
2659
2644
2627
24.5gr RL15.5
2714
2717
2716
2761 - not sure why this is way off but was first rd in the mag
Nosler 85 RDF .020 off lands
23.5gr RL15.5
2588
2598
2578
2568
24.0 gr RL15.5
2659
2649
2662
2664
I can't seem to get the accuracy I want with the higher BC bullets out of a gas gun. Maybe it is the barrel, but I haven't had such a hard time as I have had with this setup. Barrel has a 6.5 twist, so it should work. The problem I think has more to do with having to seat these bullets so deep in the case.
At this point, I have 500+ rounds on this barrel and the best loads shoot 1 moa. I guess thats ok, but not what I'm going for.
I can get the lighter weight bullets to shoot better, but it defeats the purpose of the cartridge for my intended use.
With components being as hard to get and as expensive as they are, I'm probably just going to stick with the tried and true stuff I have for now.
At this point, I have 500+ rounds on this barrel and the best loads shoot 1 moa. I guess thats ok, but not what I'm going for.
I can get the lighter weight bullets to shoot better, but it defeats the purpose of the cartridge for my intended use.
With components being as hard to get and as expensive as they are, I'm probably just going to stick with the tried and true stuff I have for now.
Try some RL17 with the 90grn Sierras. My gasser loves that combo. PM me for specifics if you’re interested
Gidday Guys (from down in New Zealand) I've just started load development for a Savage 110 (pairie hunter bolt gun, 22" barrel) in Valkyrie. Ive worked up 80 gn SMK loads to 2890 with 26.5 of Varget, and 88 Eldms to 2715 with 25.3 gns of Varget. My rifle seems to have a short throat as I'm limited to about 2.3 loa. If anyone else is running the same rifle Id be very interested to hear your results. Thanks
Have you tried the 90gr Bergers yet? I just bought a box and am interested to see how they shoot.Mine is SAAMI and they’re loaded long as in the boat tail is the one part that protrudes into the case and there’s still distance to the lands. The bullets especially the ELD-M’s don’t shoot well loaded long, I’ve tried them over and over. That’s why I switched to a bolt gun and even then most of your ELDM bullets prefer a jump…don’t believe me? Try it yourself in the meantime here’s some info that might help.
I have shot thousands of Valkyrie loads from 70gr Nosler RDF’s, 77gr RDF’s, 85gr RDF’s, 80gr Custom Competitions, 75gr Speer Gold Dots, 75gr ELD’s, 80gr ELD’s, 88gr ELD’s, 77gr LRX, 78gr TSX, 80.5gr Berger Fullbores, 85.5gr Berger Hybrids, 90gr SMK, 77gr SMK and all the powders suitable for the Valkyrie and I’ll tell you this much. I’ve even gotten so OCD to even anneal every time using my Annealing Made Perfect MkII, trimmed, chamfer, debur, and even weight sort. Best results I’ve gotten was with FC brass after they’ve been meticulously prepped because they have the most case capacity over the Hornady and Starline brass. You can’t get too close to the lands with any of the heavy secant ojive bullets if you’re looking for accuracy. It has a strange compound throat. By far the best bullets have been the RDF’s in any weight, 80.5gr Berger Fullbores and the 85.5gr Berger Hybrids. Mostly the tangent olives shot well close to the lands. Everything else basically if you thought you developed something good then shoot some more and you’d find out that it was temperamental. I’ve found that the best range of weights for the Valkyrie is in the 69gr to 85gr area. These pics are of 80.5gr Berger Fullbores and 85.5gr Berger Hybrids…and I can get these results repeatedly. Now what I think will be a real game changer is the Alliant 15.5TS that just came out and StaBall 6.5 has been awesome with the 85.5gr Bergers.
I haven’t yet. I think the 85.5gr hybrids are really hard to beat.
88gr ELDM, 26.9gr PP2000MR, FC annealed, CCI450, 1.720” BtO - 2750 fps ES 18 SD 12.8
85.5gr LRHT, 27.4gr PP2000MR, FC annealed, CCI450, 1.820” BtO - 2786 fps ES 29 SD 13.6
Anybody mess around with 60gr bullets? I’m wanting to load 60gr vmax or 60gr tmk for a flat shooting coyote round for thermal night hunting.
I seem to recall somebody saying that the 62g Nosler Varmeggedon bullets were gold for this, but I cannot speak from experience.
They’re 60gr Varmaggeddon and yes any really for that matter. I’ve used 60gr Vmax to the same effect. I’ve had the best luck with 69gr Sierra’s both tipped and non tipped and 68gr BTHP Hornady’s too. All shoot accurately and aren’t too fussy.
My favorite is a 64gr Tipped Gameking with 28.50gr of StaBall 6.5 seated 1.765” - 1.769” base to ojive. I believe roughly 2900 fps from a 22” barrel.
Has anyone thought of running the 224 Valkyrie in the 6.8 specific mags and receivers? I found a set of receivers that take the LWRC 6.8 mags:
www.newfrontierarmory.com
C-6.8 Billet Lower
Experience high-quality performance with the C-6.8 Billet Lower receiver. Made from 7075 T6 billet aluminum, this multi-caliber lower is compatible with LWRC SIX8 magazines. Build your dream rifle today!
www.newfrontierarmory.com
Similar threads
