300 Norma Mag

[waveslayer]

when will the 245 LRHY be available and are the 250 Atips worth trying over the 245 Bergs?

I know this isn't the same but in my 300 ParC with the 230 gAy Tips versus the Berger 230's I had the same results.. I had a harder time getting the seating depth down for the gAy Tips, but once I did no difference. Velocity wasn't a major difference. For what my 2 cents is worth

 

[nick338]

C.O.A.L. - 3.60
C.B.O. - 2.775

 

[m1ajunkie]

Looking for input on powder choice for 300NM pushing a 250 atip out of a 26" barrel. I started load development today with N568 however max charge I could load (still noticeably compressed) in the case was 86 grs. This 86gr charge only yielded 2783 fps., zero pressure signs.

I've got some retumbo I'm planning to load up for a ladder tomorrow. Curious what folks are using powder wise for the 250s? What am I missing with the N568? I was thinking It was going to be just about perfect for this load.

I was hoping to get the 250s to 2900 fps or higher if possible.

 

[waveslayer]

Looking for input on powder choice for 300NM pushing a 250 atip out of a 26" barrel. I started load development today with N568 however max charge I could load (still noticeably compressed) in the case was 86 grs. This 86gr charge only yielded 2783 fps., zero pressure signs.

I've got some retumbo I'm planning to load up for a ladder tomorrow. Curious what folks are using powder wise for the 250s? What am I missing with the N568? I was thinking It was going to be just about perfect for this load.

I was hoping to get the 250s to 2900 fps or higher if possible.

N570 is tried and proven

 

[otnot]

Been seeing a lot on long jumps with Bergers. Played with seating depths and settled on .090 off the lands and went out to re-zero at 100 today.

Berger 245 EOL
87.0 grs N570
CB0 2.775" @.090 off
Avg Velocity - 2951 FPS
ES - 10 FPS

3 shots on the left and adjusted scope and 2 shots on the right to confirm.

View attachment 7938746

I'm jumping the 230 gr. Atips .075 and getting similar results but my coal is 3.751. This barrel has a super long throat and I can barely get to the lands with a 230 gr. at 3.831. I've got some 250 gr. Atips coming.

 

[Blkbird6]

250 ATIP w/ 83.5 N570 at 3.58 OAL (.1 off) gives 2998 w/ 30 inch structured barrel out of an AXSR. 3-4 SD and 1/4-1/2 MOA. Lapua brass, 215M primer.

Sorry for the stupid question here, does your post mean you are loading the bullet 0.100” off the lands? Like a 100 thou jump??

 

[nick338]

Sorry for the stupid question here, does your post mean you are loading the bullet 0.100” off the lands? Like a 100 thou jump??

Sounds like it. If that was .010 off his overall length should be a lot longer.

 

[Scwalker83]

Sorry for the stupid question here, does your post mean you are loading the bullet 0.100” off the lands? Like a 100 thou jump??

If I meant .01 I would have written it. The jump I use is approximately 1/10 of an inch.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Any good RL-26 loads with 220 Bergers, 230 Bergers, 230 SMK or 250 ATIPS?

 

[schmi015]

Any good RL-26 loads with 220 Bergers, 230 Bergers, 230 SMK or 250 ATIPS?

With rl26 82 grains I was using lapua brass, 208 bergers, a federal lrp ang getting 3120fps with single digit sd/es shot this load at the nf match last year. Maybe start at 74 grains with a 220 and work up.

 

[Kopfjager1]

Im going to begin my load development with 250 A-Tips, Lapua Brass, CCI 250, and RE50 in my AXSR. I normally use Gordons Reloading Tool to get estimate velocities and min/max loads, which in the past have always been within approximately 10-15 fps, and accurate to seeing pressure signs as I near max pressure, but RE50 is not a listed powder, and other than one person here stating he wants to try a load in the 88-91 gr of RE50, I am not confident with where to start.

 

[Dogtown]

RL50 is a bit on the slow side for this cartridge, in my opinion, but don't let that stop you.

 

[nick338]

Im going to begin my load development with 250 A-Tips, Lapua Brass, CCI 250, and RE50 in my AXSR. I normally use Gordons Reloading Tool to get estimate velocities and min/max loads, which in the past have always been within approximately 10-15 fps, and accurate to seeing pressure signs as I near max pressure, but RE50 is not a listed powder, and other than one person here stating he wants to try a load in the 88-91 gr of RE50, I am not confident with where to start.

Not that's it readily available but N570 worked magic in my 300 Norma with 250 A tips. Right at 3000 fps with a 26". RL33 would also probably work well.

 

[Dogtown]

Yeah, N570 is about as close to perfect for .300NM. RL33 is a bit on the slow side, even for .338LM.

 

[nick338]

Yeah, N570 is about as close to perfect for .300NM. RL33 is a bit on the slow side, even for .338LM.

I think my buddy used RL33 with a 338 AI and had really good results. I'll double check.

 

[Dogtown]

Oh definitely in .338LM Improved - RL33 is my go to powder. But it's too slow for .300NM.

 

[BCX]

Yes, i used a ton of RL33 but moved onto N570. I had equal results but liked the added benefit of the copper eraser in the N570 when i started playing w solids.

 

[Kopfjager1]

All those powders are unobtanium, N170, 24N41, looked promising on GRT, and have read quite a few people having good results is H50 and US869. And RE50 is supposedly a faster burning powder than those, but slightly slower than N570.

 

[nick338]

Oh definitely in .338LM Improved - RL33 is my go to powder. But it's too slow for .300NM.

Gotcha. I don't play with the big boy cartridges anymore, the Norma does everything I need. Guess I should remove the 338 in my username

 

[BCX]

See, i don't have much desire to shoot anything but 338 cals

 

[Dogtown]

All those powders are unobtanium, N170, 24N41, looked promising on GRT, and have read quite a few people having good results is H50 and US869. And RE50 is supposedly a faster burning powder than those, but slightly slower than N570.

Ah gotcha. That makes sense.

 

[TylerN]

I tried a quickie work up with RL50 because I had some and N570 is unobtanium. 250gr A-Tips, Lapua Brass, Fed. 215m. 28" barrel. 1 shot with each charge weight:

81.0gr 2591 fps
82gr, 2576 fps
83gr, 2606
84, 2652
85, 2674
86, 2692
87, 2725
88, 2765
89, 2781
90, 2837

Not great but not terrible. I forget when loads started to get crunchy when seating. No idea how consistent a crunchy 90+gr of RL50 would be since I was only shooting 1 round to get a rough idea of potential velocities.

I haven't finished load dev with 250gr A-Tips and N570 but velocities were predictably better, 5-shot groups:

84.5gr, 2898 fps
85.0gr, 2906 fps, ES 7, SD 2.8. looks like an easy winner. enough velocity to do the job without pushing crazy PSI.
85.5gr, 2918 fps
86.0gr, 2913
86.5, 2932
87.0, 2942

No load I've ever shot has had pressure signs with Lapua brass and N570. I've always found velocities and stopped before pushing too hard. With 230gr Bergers 86.8gr of N570 got 3098 FPS, ES 13 SD 5.2.

 

[schmi015]

@Dogtown could you please run quickload with the 250 atip and rl26 and h1000? 28inch barrel.

 

[Dogtown]

A bit fast...

Slight improvement

Note: the fill % is the thing to scrutinize

 

[schmi015]

wow, wasn't expecting those results for rl26.

 

[Dogtown]

I just played around with what mass bullet would work (fill % > 90) with RL26 in .300NM and the best result was 155gr. So yeah, not a great option.

 

[Geno C.]

245 Berger eol
2.770” bto
215m
Virgin Peterson case
84gr Retumbo
2858fps
28” 1-8 bartlein

 

[otnot]

300 Norma Improved
Bartlein 30 1:9 twist
Peterson Brass
250 Atip
CCI 250
H1000
OAL 3.808

82 gr-2866
82.5 2878
83 2891
83.5 2910
84 2919
84.5 2939
85 2950
85.5 2994
86 2998 ejector marks
86.5 3013 ejector marks and stiff bolt.

I changed primers to Fed 215 and got clickers and it increased FPS. I think 3000 fps is the max ceiling for my gun and this powder/bullet combination.
84.5 gr 3004
85 3009
85.5 3050

 

[schmi015]

300 Norma Improved
Bartlein 30 1:9 twist
Peterson Brass
250 Atip
CCI 250
H1000
OAL 3.808

82 gr-2866
82.5 2878
83 2891
83.5 2910
84 2919
84.5 2939
85 2950
85.5 2994
86 2998 ejector marks
86.5 3013 ejector marks and stiff bolt.

I changed primers to Fed 215 and got clickers and it increased FPS. I think 3000 fps is the max ceiling for my gun and this powder/bullet combination.
84.5 gr 3004
85 3009
85.5 3050

I'd load up that 85 grain load with the cci250's and run that. 2950 for a 250 is nothing to scoff at.

 

[Bacarrat]

View attachment 8085996
I just played around with what mass bullet would work (fill % > 90) with RL26 in .300NM and the best result was 155gr. So yeah, not a great option.

Go into Options> Loadable Table Settings> Set Loadable Table Step width> User defined>In weight increments. Then you set up in .3 .5 or a grain or what have you. Most of us load into the tenth...

 

[m1ajunkie]

Running 250 atips with 88.7grs of N568 in Lapua brass I occasionally get a case that is hard to extract. Pressure wise I think I am okay, bolt lift is fine, it's just an issue pulling the bolt rearward sometimes.

When this happened with my 300PRC I swapped to redding type S sizing die to get the case web resized a bit smaller. Well on my 300NM I'm also using a redding type S die given I thought that would be my best chance of preventing this issue.

Curious if the group has any other ideas on how to clean up sticky bolt pull? Is this actually a sign of pressure that I'm missing? Is there a smaller base sizing die on the market I can use to get the web down smaller?

 

[nick338]

Running 250 atips with 88.7grs of N568 in Lapua brass I occasionally get a case that is hard to extract. Pressure wise I think I am okay, bolt lift is fine, it's just an issue pulling the bolt rearward sometimes.

When this happened with my 300PRC I swapped to redding type S sizing die to get the case web resized a bit smaller. Well on my 300NM I'm also using a redding type S die given I thought that would be my best chance of preventing this issue.

Curious if the group has any other ideas on how to clean up sticky bolt pull? Is this actually a sign of pressure that I'm missing? Is there a smaller base sizing die on the market I can use to get the web down smaller?

What's the measurement of the base of the fired brass before and after sizing?

 

[m1ajunkie]

What's the measurement of the base of the fired brass before and after sizing?

Had a chance to take some measurements tonight. For reference this lapua brass with 3 firings, loading up my 4th now.

Measurements:
- fired case .5845"
- reized cases .5835-.5840
- virgin case- .5775"

Here's a pic for reference. I'm taking my measurement roughly .2-.25" up (red arrow) from the bottom of the case, in the area that the die just barely touches. If it matters I'm targeting .002" shoulder bump. Also the resized cases run fine through my rifle with out firing.

 

[nick338]

Had a chance to take some measurements tonight. For reference this lapua brass with 3 firings, loading up my 4th now.

Measurements:
- fired case .5845"
- reized cases .5835-.5840
- virgin case- .5775"

Here's a pic for reference. I'm taking my measurement roughly .2-.25" up (red arrow) from the bottom of the case, in the area that the die just barely touches. If it matters I'm targeting .002" shoulder bump. Also the resized cases run fine through my rifle with out firing.

So you're measurements are pretty much in line with what mine are with the exception of the virgin brass. My virgin is usually around .579-580 and if yours are .5775 you may be over pressure. I also see die marks on the brass, are you having any trouble sizing? And what is the case growth looking like?

 

[m1ajunkie]

So you're measurements are pretty much in line with what mine are with the exception of the virgin brass. My virgin is usually around .579-580 and if yours are .5775 you may be over pressure. I also see die marks on the brass, are you having any trouble sizing? And what is the case growth looking like?

Yes over pressure is something I'm wondering about myself.... I've actually loaded up 10 lighter charge rounds to try out in hopes that makes a difference. Yes the case has die marks after sizing but I don't have any trouble running them through the resizing die.

What do you mean by case growth? I'll have to take some measurements to determine this as I'm not familiar with the term.

Thanks

 

[nick338]

Yes over pressure is something I'm wondering about myself.... I've actually loaded up 10 lighter charge rounds to try out in hopes that makes a difference. Yes the case has die marks after sizing but I don't have any trouble running them through the resizing die.

What do you mean by case growth? I'll have to take some measurements to determine this as I'm not familiar with the term.

Thanks

Are you having to trim your brass?

 

[otnot]

Running 250 atips with 88.7grs of N568 in Lapua brass I occasionally get a case that is hard to extract. Pressure wise I think I am okay, bolt lift is fine, it's just an issue pulling the bolt rearward sometimes.

When this happened with my 300PRC I swapped to redding type S sizing die to get the case web resized a bit smaller. Well on my 300NM I'm also using a redding type S die given I thought that would be my best chance of preventing this issue.

Curious if the group has any other ideas on how to clean up sticky bolt pull? Is this actually a sign of pressure that I'm missing? Is there a smaller base sizing die on the market I can use to get the web down smaller?

I think the brass is so tough that you don't get the usual pressure signs. I've been doing load development with the 250 gr. Atip and as soon as I get close to 3000 fps I get clickers even though I'm full length resizing. The primers are not overly flattened and only a very faint ejector mark. If I drop down to 2950 or below all is good.

 

[nick338]

I think the brass is so tough that you don't get the usual pressure signs. I've been doing load development with the 250 gr. Atip and as soon as I get close to 3000 fps I get clickers even though I'm full length resizing. The primers are not overly flattened and only a very faint ejector mark. If I drop down to 2950 or below all is good.

It depends on the powder. I ran the 250's out of a 26" barrel at 3025 fps with N570 and had no visible signs of pressure.

 

[m1ajunkie]

Are you having to trim your brass?

Ah yes..... My trim length is 2.485". After firing and resizing, it seems like the cases have grown to 2.488-2.490".

With regards to the other couple comments regarding pressure and tough brass I'm primarily using velocity and bolt lift to determine pressure. My bolt lift is fine, nothing stiff that I've noticed and from what I can tell low 2900s is not unreasonable velocity for a 250 out of a 29" barrel. Primers are fine, not flattened and I don't see any kind of ejector marks on the brass.

Hoping to test the pressure theory at the range tomorrow. I've got 10 rounds loaded up with a slightly lower powder charge so we'll see what happens.

Edit: I'm running a 26" barrel

 

[m1ajunkie]

For anyone curious I also found and ordered a bullet central die from piercision rifles. From what I can tell this full length bushing die is designed to fix the issue I am experiencing. Hope to give this a try in a week or two when I can receive it and resize some brass.

 

[nick338]

Ah yes..... My trim length is 2.485". After firing and resizing, it seems like the cases have grown to 2.488-2.490".

With regards to the other couple comments regarding pressure and tough brass I'm primarily using velocity and bolt lift to determine pressure. My bolt lift is fine, nothing stiff that I've noticed and from what I can tell low 2900s is not unreasonable velocity for a 250 out of a 29" barrel. Primers are fine, not flattened and I don't see any kind of ejector marks on the brass.

Hoping to test the pressure theory at the range tomorrow. I've got 10 rounds loaded up with a slightly lower powder charge so we'll see what happens.

That case growth is .004-005" more on average than I'm seeing.

Let me know how the test goes and re-measure eveything with that brass tomorrow.

 

[Kopfjager1]

Loaded up some 250 A-Tips with RL50 from 86gr to 92gr in 0.3 gr increments. Started to feel some crunching at 91.1gr, but very little resistance, at 92gr I had to adjust my seating micrometer 2 thousandths.
AI AXSR 27" 1:8" and 338 Ultra SR
Trim Length 2.489
Case volume (fired case, filled to brim): 103.84 gr
BTO: 2.8450"
OAL: 3.6980"
CCI 250
53* F, 21% RH, 28.04 inHg
No pressure signs at 92 gr, Id like to see how much more velocity I can get out of it, but my goal was 2800 fps, and I get that at a pretty low pressure. Whereas, the Berger Ammunition 300 NM 230 Hybrids is 2883fps 19.4 SD (54 rounds fired over the chrono), and I get some minor ejector swipe and flattened primers.

85.7​

86​

86.3​

86.6​

86.9​

87.2​

87.5​

87.8​

88.1​

88.4​

88.7​

89​

89.3​

89.6​

89.9​

90.2​

90.5​

90.8​

91.1​

91.4​

91.7​

92​

2641​

2707​

2642​

2721​

2704​

2705​

N/A

2730​

2719​

2742​

2732​

2748​

2751​

2786​

2812​

2818​

2788​

2828​

2823​

2854​

2847​

2844​

 

[TylerN]

Loaded up some 250 A-Tips with RL50 from 86gr to 92gr in 0.3 gr increments. Started to feel some crunching at 91.1gr, but very little resistance, at 92gr I had to adjust my seating micrometer 2 thousandths.
AI AXSR 27" 1:8" and 338 Ultra SR
Trim Length 2.489
Case volume (fired case, filled to brim): 103.84 gr
BTO: 2.8450"
OAL: 3.6980"
CCI 250
53* F, 21% RH, 28.04 inHg
No pressure signs at 92 gr, Id like to see how much more velocity I can get out of it, but my goal was 2800 fps, and I get that at a pretty low pressure. Whereas, the Berger Ammunition 300 NM 230 Hybrids is 2883fps 19.4 SD (54 rounds fired over the chrono), and I get some minor ejector swipe and flattened primers.

85.7​

86​

86.3​

86.6​

86.9​

87.2​

87.5​

87.8​

88.1​

88.4​

88.7​

89​

89.3​

89.6​

89.9​

90.2​

90.5​

90.8​

91.1​

91.4​

91.7​

92​

2641​

2707​

2642​

2721​

2704​

2705​

N/A

2730​

2719​

2742​

2732​

2748​

2751​

2786​

2812​

2818​

2788​

2828​

2823​

2854​

2847​

2844​

Not bad velocity, RL50 won't compete with n570 but it seems viable. I'm interested in trying some again and seeing how ES/SD's are with some slightly crunch loads.

 

[otnot]

It depends on the powder. I ran the 250's out of a 26" barrel at 3025 fps with N570 and had no visible signs of pressure.

I wish I could find some n570 to try but all I have is H1000.

 

[Dogtown]

N570 is definitely hard to get, but honestly not as hard as H1000 over the past couple of years. Yes, I know that doesn't help you right now, but my point is that if you keep an eye out, you'll find N570 before any more H1000 most likely. I've been using the notifications at Midsouth, Midway (not best prices), Natchez, and Bullet Central with good results (usually get 8lbs every six months or so).

 

[nick338]

Lack of components is getting old. I made a comment in the "powder in stock thread" about a year and half ago indicating we were years away from seeing regular components back on the shelves and remember one response acting like I was trying to stir up a doom and gloom response from everyone. Well last time I checked which is pretty often, I still can't buy a majority of the components I need. I was lucky to be thinking ahead when I got the N570 before it disappeared.

 

[Bacarrat]

I see H1000 for sale way more often than N570. I finally found some N570 after 8 months of trying. I use shootingbot alerts and you have to be really fast. Also been trying to get 245gr EOL for the longest.

 

[otnot]

N570 is definitely hard to get, but honestly not as hard as H1000 over the past couple of years. Yes, I know that doesn't help you right now, but my point is that if you keep an eye out, you'll find N570 before any more H1000 most likely. I've been using the notifications at Midsouth, Midway (not best prices), Natchez, and Bullet Central with good results (usually get 8lbs every six months or so).

My biggest problem is I can't ship primers or powder to Alaska.

 

[Dogtown]

Well that's sucktacular.

 

[schmi015]

Well that's sucktacular.

Does H50BMG work for 250 atips?