300 Norma Mag

#501
jwknutson17 said:
Is this something that AI/Mile High is taking care of on the AXMC for the excessive clearence on the firing pin hole? They bushing them, or sending to LRI? Customer pay? warranty?
Click to expand...

No, no , and no
...I had my bolts bushed and two LFP turned down. The turned lfp pins work in my sfp bolt assembly.


I will check my notes later but I experienced I believe similar results with my factory axmc. I couldn't get within 150fps of everyone else's load data with 300 Norma. Now that my bolts are bushed I can push pills up there within the range most people are with 0 pressure signs.
 
#502
Huskydriver said:
No, no , and no
...I had my bolts bushed and two LFP turned down. The turned lfp pins work in my sfp bolt assembly.


I will check my notes later but I experienced I believe similar results with my factory axmc. I couldn't get within 150fps of everyone else's load data with 300 Norma. Now that my bolts are bushed I can push pills up there within the range most people are with 0 pressure signs.
Click to expand...

Sounds good. Let me know what you find.

For my SFP bolt assy, it comes with the firing pin, shroud, safety as a complete ready to drop in complete bolt. I would only be swapping the large firing pin assembly between the Lapua and Magnum bolt bodies.

I didnt think it was ideal to use a SFP on the mag/lapua ones even if they are bushed?? Maybe its just turned down slightly to true it up and the hole is bushed and fit properly? Havent had anything bushed before. May just call Adam at Mile High or Chad at LRI.
 
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#503
jwknutson17 said:
Sounds good. Let me know what you find.

For my SFP bolt assy, it comes with the firing pin, shroud, safety as a complete ready to drop in complete bolt. I would only be swapping the large firing pin assembly between the Lapua and Magnum bolt bodies.

I didnt think you wanted to use a SFP on the mag/lapua ones. Maybe its just turned down slightly to true it up and the hole is bushed and fit properly? Havent had anything bushed before. May just call Adam at Mile High or Chad at LRI.
Click to expand...

When they bush the bolt, they also turn down the fp to match the hole in the bolt face. The factory sfp firing pin will not work in factory lfp bolts however, LRI was able to turn down my factory LFP so that if needed they could be used in my factory sfp bolt body if that makes sense.

@LongRifles Inc. Did both mine in less than a week.
 
#504
Huskydriver said:
When they bush the bolt, they also turn down the fp to match the hole in the bolt face. The factory sfp firing pin will not work in factory lfp bolts however, LRI was able to turn down my factory LFP so that if needed they could be used in my factory sfp bolt body if that makes sense.

@LongRifles Inc. Did both mine in less than a week.
Click to expand...

Yea I know you cant use a SFP in a mag bolt body and vise versa. Just not sure what the specs are exactly. I know Machtech just had his done from LRI but not sure the exact details.

But in reality we shouldn't have to be bushing brand new AXMC bolts... especially if it's a common theme you think it would be addressed before sending them out.
 
#505
jwknutson17 said:
Yea I know you cant use a SFP in a mag bolt body and vise versa. Just not sure what the specs are exactly. I know Machtech just had his done from LRI but not sure the exact details.

But in reality we shouldn't have to be bushing brand new AXMC bolts... especially if it's a common theme you think it would be addressed before sending them out.
Click to expand...
What do you mean you cant use small firing pin on magnum?
For lapua size magnum or any magnum.im using sfp on my 7 max which is basically 7 saum AI no issues
 
#506
bjay said:
What do you mean you cant use small firing pin on magnum?
For lapua size magnum or any magnum.im using sfp on my 7 max which is basically 7 saum AI no issues
Click to expand...

Your tossing a small firing pin in a mag bolt body that's not bushed for it??? Guess I should have worded it a little better, that you shouldn't toss a SFP in a Mag bolt body unless you have it bushed at the same time.

Why are we having to do this to 7000+ dollar rifles is a better question..


Not to keep derailing this thread but I'll just call Adam or Chad and call it a day.
 
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#507
jwknutson17 said:
Your tossing a small firing pin in a mag bolt body that's not bushed for it??? Guess I should have worded it a little better, that you shouldn't toss a SFP in a Mag bolt body unless you have it bushed at the same time.

Why are we having to do this to 7000+ dollar rifles is a better question..


Not to keep derailing this thread but I'll just call Adam or Chad and call it a day.
Click to expand...
Ohhh i missed read it..yup my bolt face is set for sfp
 
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#508
jwknutson17 said:
Your tossing a small firing pin in a mag bolt body that's not bushed for it??? Guess I should have worded it a little better, that you shouldn't toss a SFP in a Mag bolt body unless you have it bushed at the same time.

Why are we having to do this to 7000+ dollar rifles is a better question..


Not to keep derailing this thread but I'll just call Adam or Chad and call it a day.
Click to expand...
The clearance between pin and channel is intentional and was designed that way to allow fail proof function even with dust/debris in the action.
 
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#511
I may have missed something but, why is it that Berger is the only company with any sort of tested load data for the 300 NM? I know it’s sorta new but it’s not that new. Is there an actual reason as to why, that anyone knows?
 
#514
I pulled & weighed a charge. It was either 84 or 84.5 grains. I can't remember cause it's been a while. I've been told it was h1000 but I personally believe it's retumbo.
 
#517
The Berger page that @Yerman posted (above) shows 85.4gr max load for the 230 with H1000 in some 26" barrel and unknown brass. Elsewhere it was mentioned (possibly earlier in this thread) that the data on that page, or possibly just that max H1000 load, is considered hot. I understand individual rifles vary so work up, but are the N570 and Retumbo loads on that sheet also typically hot?
 
#518
DO NOT use the Berger load data posted above (post #507). It's way too hot! I have no idea what they were smoking when they put this info out. I shoot a 300NM IMP built by Ryan Pearce. My load is 91gr N570 with a 215 which gives me 3160fps from a 26" Proof CF 9-twist barrel. ABM is using H1000 for their factory 300NM ammo.
 
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#519
This is an interesting addition!
 

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#524
Interesting thread.

With respect to increased pressure signs/speed with 300 NM in the AI AXMC (PSR)-- commensurate with increased barrel life, I am aware under normal circumstances a barrel will typically speed up after 50-200 rds. However, with pressure signs/pierced primers occurring with either factory ammo or re-loads (after the initial 50-200 rds), where it did not initially occur --- is interesting.

Assuming all avenues of cleaning/inspection/investigation to isolate the different factors were completed. It can be frustrating.
As it was for me.

The following is my humble opinion.

Although I have not changed the Large Fire Pin(LFP) and everything is still factory spec from AI, I agree with the modification to a Small Firing Pin(SFP) and bushed bolt can make a difference to alleviate the pressure issues. With this methodology, if I go down this route, I will probably buy an entire bolt body(either bushed or with SFP hole) and an entire small firing pin assembly. Although not the cheapest way to do this, I would like to keep the factory spec AI bolt for experimentation. Also, the factory clearance between the LFP and bolt channel is spec'ed for a battle rifle. With many custom rifles/actions built with 300 NM, you will see 215 and 230 Bergers pushed to their max speed/potential.

I have shot 338 Lapua Magnum (13 different factory loads and re-loads) with this same rifle/action (AXMC) with no issues.

Personally, I really like the 300 NM, and believe it is an awesome cartridge. However, from my humble experience, the 300 NM (in the AXMC) needs to be fined tuned like a dragster. As barrel life progresses, the "load" needs to updated/tweaked to maintain peak performance . I have also fired 338 Norma Magnum through the same rifle/action and found it to be more forgiving with minimal pressure issues. A good analogy would be the 6.5 Creedmoor vs. 6 Creedmoor. The faster & smaller caliber is a "higher maintenance" cartridge.

Brass is the other issue. Obviously, all is not created equal. I did do a comparison with Norma brass and Lapua brass for 300 NM for 215, 220, 230 Bergers (yes, the new 220 Berger Long Range Target Hybrid):
1) Lapua brass exhibited less pressure issues;
2) Lapua brass exhibited increased velocities by 29-36 fps;
3) Lapua brass exhibited slightly less bolt lift;

Please remember I am referencing the AI AXMC (PSR) as the rifle platform.
My goal was to make 300 NM work (no pressure issues) in the factory spec rifle. Also, I did not try to max out the velocity due to pressure issues or poor node. I wanted to find the most accurate load/node for the rifle.

The following are the loads/results with Norma brass (for Lapua brass, just add 29-36 fps):
26" AI barrel, 1:10, 300 NM-----Jumped between 0.025-0.030.

215 Berger with Norma 217--85.0g
Avg: 2996, SD 8.7

220 Berger with Norma 217--84.5g
Avg: 2974, SD 6.9

230 Berger with Norma 217--84.0g
Avg: 2923, SD 4.8

The above results were unsuppressed. I did do a follow-up with two different suppressors with no issues.

Also, it was mentioned above that there is no official reloading data for 300 NM.
This is incorrect.
NORMA does produce an excellent reloading book. However, the only powders published in their book are Norma powders. On pages 326-328 is the information for 300 NM:
215 Berger------Norma 217 powder----min 83.8 (2828 fps), max 88.1 (3012 fps); Norma MRP powder----min 76.8 (2871 fps), max 80.9 (2988 fps)
230 Berger------Norma 217 powder----min 82.7 (2789 fps), max 87.0 (2940 fps)

I am sure with the new AI ASR kit and the AI AXSR rifles being released, this issue will be resolved with the SFP and updated action/platform for the Norma Magnum family.

In summary, with the AI AXMC (PSR) the following can help alleviate the 300 NM pressure issues with barrel life:
1) Change brass/load--recommend Lapua brass
2) Change to SFP
3) _____________ (fill in the blank for people smarter than me--which is easy)

Again, my humble opinion.... hope this helps.
 
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#525
I gave up on a tips. Going out tomorrow to try 91.2 grains re33 under a 230 hybrid in lapua brass. The reamer I had used must have been worn out as the bullet tends to lightly drag in the throat. Hopefully over another 100 rounds or so this problem goes away as the barrel wears more
 
#526
Rebelirons said:
I may have missed something but, why is it that Berger is the only company with any sort of tested load data for the 300 NM? I know it’s sorta new but it’s not that new. Is there an actual reason as to why, that anyone knows?
Click to expand...
I found it in Sierra Reloading Manual VI. Just picked up a 300NM 35˚ Improved. Have dies and plenty of 215 Hybrids. Absolutely not enough Retumbo even though I have about ten pounds (I shoot 300WM and 6.5PRC too). The rifle came with ten boxes of Berger factory ammo loaded with 215 Hybrids so I'll burn some of that first. Looking forward to attacking some steel out to 2,000 yards.
 
#531
Here is my load up. I am running the 230 SMK and Lapua brass. My brass is on the second firing. They were annealed after the first firing. I have a 30" Bartlien Barrel 8T. Dave Manson Reamer.

86.6 gr N217 @ 3105 fps
Fed Match Mag Primer
.015" off lands

As of the last speed check yesterday it was 3105fps with 200 rounds on the barrel. That jumped up from 3090fps 25 rounds ago when I shot at a 1 mile target. I did not run my Labradar during the shoot, so I do not know when it jumped exactly. I started off at 3030fps at 50 rounds on the barrel. The SD has stayed 6-7.
 
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#533
I’m jealous with everyone’s success with their Norma’s. I took mine out finally with 2 different powders (H1000 and IMR 8133) and 3 different bullets. After break-in and all the cleaning I couldn’t get it to shoot under 1” at 100yds. I hope it’s not a gun that won’t shoot but very disappointed in the accuracy. SD’s, speeds and pressures where good. I just couldn’t get it to shoot accurately. The bullets were Berger 215’s , 230’s and 225 ELD-M’s. Guess it’s back to the drawing board. CIP reamer and my bullets weren’t load out or in crazy so, who knows. I will say the worst groups were with the 8133

Rifle specs;
28” Bartlein 1:9”
Defiance Deviant
TT Diamond
Manners T4A team
 
#534
Rebelirons said:
I’m jealous with everyone’s success with their Norma’s. I took mine out finally with 2 different powders (H1000 and IMR 8133) and 3 different bullets. After break-in and all the cleaning I couldn’t get it to shoot under 1” at 100yds. I hope it’s not a gun that won’t shoot but very disappointed in the accuracy. SD’s, speeds and pressures where good. I just couldn’t get it to shoot accurately. The bullets were Berger 215’s , 230’s and 225 ELD-M’s. Guess it’s back to the drawing board. CIP reamer and my bullets weren’t load out or in crazy so, who knows. I will say the worst groups were with the 8133

Rifle specs;
28” Bartlein 1:9”
Defiance Deviant
TT Diamond
Manners T4A team
Click to expand...

I've never used a bartlein, so I'm not sure how fast they really break in. I've had a couple brux's, and all of them actually broke in at around 220 rounds. That's when I saw my sd's come down into the low single digits and accuracy really tightened up. With my Norma, I've put 5 shots in nearly the same hole at 100 on a couple occasions. I'd say since it's new, give it a couple more sessions.
 
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#535
I was taking that into account. I only have 95 rounds down. Its just the accuracy was so poor it kinda ruined my weekend. I have a line on a couple pounds of Retumbo so between that and the H1000 I hope to shrink the groups a bit. Gonna play with seating depths as well.
My loads for 8133 started at 83.0 grains and went up every .5 grain to 90.0 gn. The H1000 with the 230’s started at 80.0 gn to 84.5gn. It’s probably too early for a full on Red Alert but it sure wasn’t promising
 
#536
Guys, any advice on what freebore to select for 300 Norma build?
Want to shoot bullets which are quite long: 230 Bergers, 230 and 250 A-tips, 230 SMK's pushing with Vihta N570.
Would like to avoid neck shoulder junction.
Barrel proof carbon, 1-8", will be sitting in DT SRS A1.

Do I read correctly that .215 freebore might be to short?

thank you for your expertise :)
 
#537
mindekei said:
Guys, any advice on what freebore to select for 300 Norma build?
Want to shoot bullets which are quite long: 230 Bergers, 230 and 250 A-tips, 230 SMK's pushing with Vihta N570.
Would like to avoid neck shoulder junction.
Barrel proof carbon, 1-8", will be sitting in DT SRS A1.

Do I read correctly that .215 freebore might be to short?

thank you for your expertise :)
Click to expand...
I am doing the same set up in a A2. I went with a .250 freebore. It depends how much your load wants to jump but .215 is on the short side for bigger bullets.
 
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#538
mindekei said:
Guys, any advice on what freebore to select for 300 Norma build?
Want to shoot bullets which are quite long: 230 Bergers, 230 and 250 A-tips, 230 SMK's pushing with Vihta N570.
Would like to avoid neck shoulder junction.
Barrel proof carbon, 1-8", will be sitting in DT SRS A1.

Do I read correctly that .215 freebore might be to short?

thank you for your expertise :)
Click to expand...
I shoot the 250 A-Tips with a .225 FB. They wont mag feed but the FB seems just right.
 
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#540
Wondering if anyone can help me
I need load data for my 300 Norma mag Christiansen arms mpr
1:8 twist
26 inch barrel
using Berger 245 grain EOL hunting tip
Powder H1000

need to know min max grains and ideal
 
#542
Bc Adventures said:
Wondering if anyone can help me
I need load data for my 300 Norma mag Christiansen arms mpr
1:8 twist
26 inch barrel
using Berger 245 grain EOL hunting tip
Powder H1000

need to know min max grains and ideal
Click to expand...
If you call berger they will give you data over the phone.
I have the same rifle and 85 grains of h1000 with a 215 berger is getting pretty hot so you will be well under that.
 
#545
Though I would add to this since I have used a lot of the info on the thread.
300 norma
225 ELD-M
Lapua brass
26" hart 1:8 twist (T3 break)
Tac338 action
.010 off lands
Started at 84.5gr retumbo and worked up to 86.5gr (with no pressure signs)
84.5gr retumbo - 2940 fps (this load was .015 off the lands)
85.5gr retumbo - 2964 fps (.010 off the lands)
86.5gr retumbo - 3050 fps (.010 off the lands)
 

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#546
Shawnsts said:
Though I would add to this since I have used a lot of the info on the thread.
300 norma
225 ELD-M
Lapua brass
26" hart 1:8 twist (T3 break)
Tac338 action
.010 off lands
Started at 84.5gr retumbo and worked up to 86.5gr (with no pressure signs)
84.5gr retumbo - 2940 fps (this load was .015 off the lands)
85.5gr retumbo - 2964 fps (.010 off the lands)
86.5gr retumbo - 3050 fps (.010 off the lands)
Click to expand...

Nice. What freebore is your reamer? Coal seems short with a 225gr?
 
#547
To be honest I do not know what the Freebore is (there is probably a way to measure?). I purchased it from a guy who said it was built by RGS LLC. Today was my first time shooting it. I did my best finding the lands with the hornady locknload guage. I came up with 3.593 for 225 eldm and 3.695 for the 245 elite hunter which I haven't tried yet.

I am just starting really getting into reloading so I am not the best at it.
 
#548
Is there a consensus on what primer to use for the 300 Norma? I'm waiting on my action to arrive (Stiller Tac338) and my smith has a 30" Krieger set aside for it. I'll be using Lapua brass and Berger 215s or 230s and either N570 or H1000 (most likely the N570 though). I've gone back a few pages and guys seem to be either using Fed 215Ms or CCI 250s, any preference? I've got 1k 250s here but they're kinda ear marked for my 7SAUM. Should I just get some Fed 215Ms or just stock up on 250s and have em do double duty?
 
#549
MAYHEM- 300 NORMA MAGNUM 245 BERGER EOL ELITE HUNTER
$269.99
QuantityChoose an optionChoose an optionADG 50
Mayhem- 300 Norma Magnum 245 Berger EOL Elite Hunter quantityAdd to cart
CALIBER300 NORMA MAGNUM
BULLET245 BERGER EOL ELITE HUNTER
BRASSADG
POWDERVIHTAVUORI N570
PRIMERFEDERAL 215 MATCH
VELOCITY3125 F/S
G1 / G7.823/ .414
COAL3.685″
REC. TWIST8
QUANTITY20/50
28″ 1:8 Barrel on test rifle

This is interesting from Unknown Munitions. Velocity seems more in line with what a 215 would be at.
 
#550
nick338 said:
MAYHEM- 300 NORMA MAGNUM 245 BERGER EOL ELITE HUNTER
$269.99
QuantityChoose an optionChoose an optionADG 50
Mayhem- 300 Norma Magnum 245 Berger EOL Elite Hunter quantityAdd to cart
CALIBER300 NORMA MAGNUM
BULLET245 BERGER EOL ELITE HUNTER
BRASSADG
POWDERVIHTAVUORI N570
PRIMERFEDERAL 215 MATCH
VELOCITY3125 F/S
G1 / G7.823/ .414
COAL3.685″
REC. TWIST8
QUANTITY20/50
28″ 1:8 Barrel on test rifle

This is interesting from Unknown Munitions. Velocity seems more in line with what a 215 would be at.
Click to expand...

That's got to be a misprint. Maybe 3025. But thats still cooking with a 245.
 
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