300 PRC update

[dwent]

How much resizing is always going to be a balance between the desire for the most consistent alignment round-to-round of cartridge to chamber and the desire to ensure reliable chambering and extraction.

Additionally, it depends on how you are using the system and where. I.E. Will everything always be perfectly clean and how detrimental would failure to chamber or extract be for how you are using the system.

After considering those areas, and testing your approach proceed according to your needs.

A side note, there are certainly other reasons to load than having brass that fits "perfectly" in your chamber. Such as neck tension control/consistency, charge weight control/consistency, bullet seating depth control/consistency to name a few.

You’re right and my comment about reloading vs. not was a little tongue in cheek. It just seems a little counter intuitive to bump the shoulder .002” below what unfired brass is measuring at. I was however surprised to see the bug holes this barrel was shooting with unfired brass. The rounds were not concentric AT ALL due to some apparently banana shaped brass, which made it all the more of a head scratcher.

There’s 8 rounds in here at exactly an inch at 100 yards, and the left most one was all me. Charges in the group started at 74.1 and ended at 76.2. Probably not impressive to most of you guys but for me I was expecting to see a larger spread.

My purposes are hunting and shooting steel. For this reason my final load won’t be jammed into the lands, but dirty ammunition and chamber is not really an issue I run into in my pursuits.

 

[phlegethon]

You’re right and my comment about reloading vs. not was a little tongue in cheek. It just seems a little counter intuitive to bump the shoulder .002” below what unfired brass is measuring at. I was however surprised to see the bug holes this barrel was shooting with unfired brass. The rounds were not concentric AT ALL due to some apparently banana shaped brass, which made it all the more of a head scratcher.

There’s 8 rounds in here at exactly an inch at 100 yards, and the left most one was all me. Charges in the group started at 74.1 and ended at 76.2. Probably not impressive to most of you guys but for me I was expecting to see a larger spread.

My purposes are hunting and shooting steel. For this reason my final load won’t be jammed into the lands, but dirty ammunition and chamber is not really an issue I run into in my pursuits.

The purpose of sizing is not just to bump the shoulder, but it is usually convenient to measure that as a proxy for the whole process. Have you measured the bases of your brass with a micrometer? Two thousandths (or so—you can’t measure more accurately than 1-3 thousandths with calipers) is still a very, very minimal amount of resizing. If you strip your bolt of the firing pin and ejector, and it drops without resistance on a resized case, that should be enough regardless of shoulder measurements. I would definitely make sure there is no resistance though, not “slight” as you mentioned above.

 

[dwent]

The purpose of sizing is not just to bump the shoulder, but it is usually convenient to measure that as a proxy for the whole process. Have you measured the bases of your brass with a micrometer? Two thousandths (or so—you can’t measure more accurately than 1-3 thousandths with calipers) is still a very, very minimal amount of resizing. If you strip your bolt of the firing pin and ejector, and it drops without resistance on a resized case, that should be enough regardless of shoulder measurements. I would definitely make sure there is no resistance though, not “slight” as you mentioned above.

So with a stripped bolt the max charge fired brass (and all others) still drop the bolt handle freely. I also measured the bases with my ball micrometer and there was only a difference of .0001” between fired and unfired brass. Seems odd but the results were consistent. I would like to resize after every firing but maybe it would be better to give it one more firing before setting my bump? I hear the resounding call to size every time. Just trying to understand the mechanics of it in this particular case.

 

[dwent]

One other observation: In spite of the only .0001” difference in web diameter, there is tension on the primary extraction part of the bolt lift on the fired case, and not on the unfired brass (reference to the threads on “clickers” mentioned earlier). I guess I will file this under reasons to size before next firing, even though I have no idea how these two cases are measuring differently.

 

[phlegethon]

So with a stripped bolt the max charge fired brass (and all others) still drop the bolt handle freely. I also measured the bases with my ball micrometer and there was only a difference of .0001” between fired and unfired brass. Seems odd but the results were consistent.

Yeah, that does seem a little odd and I would be interested to hear from those with more knowledge than myself on this one.

 

[ubettcha]

You have tension after firing but the bolt will fall freely when you have a stripped bolt? Is that just due to cocking the spring vs a tight case. How are you measuring your fired case from base to shoulder/neck junction? Are you using a comparator? I have some my dad made for different calibers. Just the case neck expanding changes the base to neck measurement with that method. If it didn't you'd be in the dounut business rather quickly

 

[dwent]

You have tension after firing but the bolt will fall freely when you have a stripped bolt? Is that just due to cocking the spring vs a tight case. How are you measuring your fired case from base to shoulder/neck junction? Are you using a comparator? I have some my dad made for different calibers. Just the case neck expanding changes the base to neck measurement with that method. If it didn't you'd be in the dounut business rather quickly

No, I was comparing a piece of unfired brass to a piece of fired brass, both with a stripped bolt. The stripped bolt doesn’t fall on its own weight even on an empty chamber, but the lack of resistance is the same when comparing fired brass, unfired brass and no brass. Interestingly enough the primary extraction part of the bolt lift does have some resistance on the fired case, despite there only being a .0001” difference in the diameters.

I’m measuring headspace with the Hornady comparator.

 

[ubettcha]

No, I was comparing a piece of unfired brass to a piece of fired brass, both with a stripped bolt. The stripped bolt doesn’t fall on its own weight even on an empty chamber, but the lack of resistance is the same when comparing fired brass, unfired brass and no brass. Interestingly enough the primary extraction part of the bolt lift does have some resistance on the fired case, despite there only being a .0001” difference in the diameters.

I’m measuring headspace with the Hornady comparator.

WHat is your loaded neck dia vs your fired neck dia

 

[dwent]

WHat is your loaded neck dia vs your fired neck dia

.337 loaded
.341 fired

 

[ubettcha]

Bump your shoulder .002

 

[dwent]

Bump your shoulder .002

That seems to be the consensus but what is the connection between the neck diameter and shoulder bump?

 

[Defender3]

It just keeps getting worse - these guys must be crazy.

 

[BFuller]

It just keeps getting worse - these guys must be crazy.

WTF.......you could buy a whole pound of RL26 on gunbroker for that

 

[robb_va]

It just keeps getting worse - these guys must be crazy.

Acres isn't the only green those folks like......lol

 

[bunny too]

I just picked up 20 boxes from Freedom Munitions for $49.99 (ea.). I am keeping a list of those with whom I will not deal with if things ever get back close to what it was.

 

[ubettcha]

I paid 44.00 for precision hunter 212 eldx Saturday. If you look around to out of the way shops that cater to shooters vs retail outlets the masses goto you can find stuff close to normal pricing. The 25.00 per 100 primer prices have hit locally so if you are late to the dance you are going to have to wait till the supply chain catches up. Thankfully not many reload local to me in the communist state of Mass. The current pricing will pass and they will get back to the dust covered boxes they were last year in February soon enough.

 

[Defender3]

I just picked up 20 boxes from Freedom Munitions for $49.99 (ea.). I am keeping a list of those with whom I will not deal with if things ever get back close to what it was.

+1 to Freedom. My case arrived today along with another 250 Bergers. It looks like they raised their price to $55/bx, but they still have some in stock.

 

[BFuller]

I guess Bartlein picked up the pace, or I got lucky. It's been less than two months and my barrel has shipped. Maybe I just happened to pick a contour and caliber they had ready.

 

[BFuller]

Anybody here have experience of the TT Diamond 2-stage trigger?

 

[JB.IC]

Anybody here have experience of the TT Diamond 2-stage trigger?

Yes. So far, it’s been a horrible experience.
I was one of the original guys who discovered the D-2S was hang firing back back in August. Funny how industry personalities didn’t believe me they were messing up and then they did a recall as more and more people were having issues.

I sent all three of my triggers back. Then I went on a short deployment. Came home about a month ago. Received the replacement triggers about two weeks ago. Installed one of them in my Terminus Zeus. Worked fine for about 130 firings and then started hang firing. I’m now testing the other two in other actions to see if they are faulty as well.

I now have trust issues with the 2 stages

 

[JB.IC]

all that being said, TT’s customer service has been great.

 

[BFuller]

Yes. So far, it’s been a horrible experience.
I was one of the original guys who discovered the D-2S was hang firing back back in August. Funny how industry personalities didn’t believe me they were messing up and then they did a recall as more and more people were having issues.

I sent all three of my triggers back. Then I went on a short deployment. Came home about a month ago. Received the replacement triggers about two weeks ago. Installed one of them in my Terminus Zeus. Worked fine for about 130 firings and then started hang firing. I’m now testing the other two in other actions to see if they are faulty as well.

I now have trust issues with the 2 stages

Did you have their single stage before that?

 

[JB.IC]

Did you have their single stage before that?

Yes sir. I have a special and a diamond. Single stages are great. Never had an issue with them.

 

[b2lee]

ramblings from a madman.........

375 Ruger brass comes from the factory with noticeably tighter primer pockets than their 300 PRC brass. This is most likely the key factor in early primer pocket failures. Hornady needs to address this sizing issue. The two should have the exact same primer pocket dimensions ....but they do not. I have not measured a 6.5PRC piece of brass....but you'd think they'd have the same primer pockets...along with everything else they run in LPP.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I have 50+ otherwise good pices of brass that the primer pockets have given out. Ive been experimenting ways to tighten them.

 

[b2lee]

I have 50+ otherwise good pices of brass that the primer pockets have given out. Ive been experimenting ways to tighten them.

Send me a PM

 

[HOLLYW00D]

I have 50+ otherwise good pices of brass that the primer pockets have given out. Ive been experimenting ways to tighten them.

I've read: take a ball bearing larger than the primer pocket, and using a metal dowel stuck down the case against the flash hole, give that dowel > brass > bearing a love tap with a hammer to make it nizentite.

 

[b2lee]

I've read: take a ball bearing larger than the primer pocket, and using a metal dowel stuck down the case against the flash hole, give that dowel > brass > bearing a love tap with a hammer to make it nizentite.

That does work....you need to experiment a little with the force required...and ball bearing size...and it is tediously slow when you have more than a few pieces of brass to do.

Some of us have 100's of pieces of brass to process.

 

[ubettcha]

 

[b2lee]

That works for small primer pockets...but not large....like for a 300PRC

 

[ubettcha]

That works for small primer pockets...but not large....like for a 300PRC

Watch the very end he has a way to hold a ball bearing/marble to do the same with a lrp while using a press. My dad machined a piece that fits into the shellholder for doing this. I have a few rifles you cannot find brass for that we fix this way. Some of my 38-55 brass has over 100 firings on it but that is also not high pressure using black powder.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I've read: take a ball bearing larger than the primer pocket, and using a metal dowel stuck down the case against the flash hole, give that dowel > brass > bearing a love tap with a hammer to make it nizentite.

Tried that and its not consistent and basically puts a small crimp on it.

 

[Defender3]

I went out to test a load today at Quantico R4. A nice 18 degrees to start the day but it warmed up to almost 40 degrees when I shot the string.

I previously found a node at 2870 with a differing combination so, I was interested to see where RL26 and the Berger 220 would land. The chart shows a velocity node at 75grs / 2932fps and I will pursue that a bit, but I'm also going to see if there is a slower node in the 2870fps range.

I also shot N565 and the B220s, but the initial two increments were too hot (pierced primers, 2982fps), even though QuickLoad was telling me this load was much slower.

 

[b2lee]

For a while now...I've been at 75.0gr of RL-26...for the A TIp 230's and the 245 EOL Bergers.......just babying my brass...until the Lapua is released.

@Defender3 what N565 load were you running?.....I do 78.0 grains with the previous mentioned bullets...and get very little pressure signs.

 

[Defender3]

My initial increment with the N565 / B220 was 78.2grs and you can see the results in the 2nd and 3rd case contrasted against a factory load.

 

[b2lee]

My initial increment with the N565 / B220 was 78.2grs and you can see the results in the 2nd and 3rd case contrasted against a factory load.

I shot 78.5gr of N565 fairly regularly with 230 A-Tips....and had some minor swiping and some plunger marks....but I've never had a primer do that.....I had one pop all the way out with a loose pocket using a load I won't discuss here....it was....well...HOT.

 

[DellaDog]

Anyone having issues with whidden dies and ADG brass? Everything was fine on the 2nd loading, getting .002 shoulder bump smooth ejection. Going into 3rd loading brass chambered fine after re-sizing and loading. Fired one round and it stuck in the chamber. pulled all the bullets at that charge incase it was a pressure issue. Re-sized and dropped down .5 of a grain just to make sure everything was safe. Again brass chambered without resistance and the loaded round chambered without resistance, fired the round same result, brass stuck in the chamber. I only have this batch of brass and it's all been fired twice fired. I'm hoping it's a just a die issue.

I’m having exactly the same issue. By the third firing the bolt is extremely difficult to open, and I’m not shooting an overly aggressive load - Defiance Deviant, 28” Bartlein, 76 gr RL 26 and ADG brass at 2900.

Called Whidden and am told it’s an ADG brass issue but they’ll custom size a replacement die (nearly 4+ month wait)

Alex Wheeler discusses the issue here and says it’s a chamber/die issue.

It’s frustrating to say the least as I don’t want to ruin unobtainable ADG brass by shooting it any further without a workable solution.

 

[b6graham]

I’m having exactly the same issue. By the third firing the bolt is extremely difficult to open, and I’m not shooting an overly aggressive load - Defiance Deviant, 28” Bartlein, 76 gr RL 26 and ADG brass at 2900.

Called Whidden and am told it’s an ADG brass issue but they’ll custom size a replacement die (nearly 4+ month wait)

Alex Wheeler discusses the issue here and says it’s a chamber/die issue.

It’s frustrating to say the least as I don’t want to ruin unobtainable ADG brass by shooting it any further without a workable solution.

you mean whidden has a problem with undersizing the case head/web bottom portion of a case? shock...

had a similar problem with another cartridge and whidden sizing dies. every firing i had to go lower and lower on charge then subsequent firing it would stick again

small base die them all and get a reading sizing die and my problem was problem solved

 

[MikelLee]

small base die them

Noob question; Not sure what small base die is?

 

[DellaDog]

small base die them

Never seen one for the 300 PRC. Consensus seems to be it’s a die/reamer issue at the .200 line.

 

[Defender3]

Never seen one for the 300 PRC. Consensus seems to be it’s a die/reamer issue at the .200 line.

And I believe it was stated on another forum that a custom die also did not resolve the sizing issue. People were turning dies to cut them back to when they would size the .200 area.

I have one firing on my Hornady brass and I can clearly see the potential issue on this brass.

 

[Reload10]

The only fix is to have a chamber reamer "oversized" at the 0.2 line.

 

[Reload10]

It's been discussed at length and everyw has been tried and failed on LRO.COM. Jeff Brozkovich has tried everything including custom dies and a new reamer was the only thing that worked.

 

[DellaDog]

That’s what I’m finding as well.
Hopefully my smith can polish out the existing chamber and I’ll use Alex’s +.002 reamer specs on the next barrel.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Anyone tried honing out the first part of the chamber?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DB8E4OG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_8P34MMZ0GFKHMNYY5HN2?psc=1

 

[Defender3]

Anyone tried honing out the first part of the chamber?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DB8E4OG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_8P34MMZ0GFKHMNYY5HN2?psc=1

Give a try and let us know how it works. Here, hold my beer...

Seriously though, I don't have calibrated hands so it would be a YouTube moment if I tried.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Give a try and let us know how it works. Here, hold my beer...

Seriously though, I don't have calibrated hands so it would be a YouTube moment if I tried.

I would so do this but I dont have a problem with mine. Xcaliber barrel, Hornady brass, Hornady dies. Im at 5 reloads on some. Only ussue I have is primer pockets in brass. Oh and a couple case head separations on the hot ones.

You really dont need steady hands or precision, chuck it in a drill and let er rip.

You only need to hone out .0025" of the first 1/2".

You got this!!!

 

[bunny too]

Just got word from Southern Precision Rifles that my barreled action and extra barrel will be shipped back to me today. I went with a Defiance Deviant Tactical with CRF and two Bartlein 400 MOD barrels. It has been a six months from the start of this project and glad to see light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Defender3]

Just got word from Southern Precision Rifles that my barreled action and extra barrel will be shipped back to me today. I went with a Defiance Deviant Tactical with CRF and two Bartlein 400 MOD barrels. It has been a six months from the start of this project and glad to see light at the end of the tunnel.

What is the shank size for those barrels on that action please?

 

[JBarton]

I was supposed to get my barreled action this week. I changed my mind and asked to have it cerakoted black. Should have it sometime next week. I've been working on this build since last summer and down to days. Seems to be taking forever.... im impatiently waiting.
It's an archimedes action with a 28" 9 twist ss proof research barrel, triggertech special and will sit in an fde X-ray.