300 yard consistency

[Emerson0311]

I understand that CCI is considered shit around these parts. I have no dog in the fight regarding ammo as I haven't tried every type listed in this thread. Match grade LR ammo has been tough to purchase reliably since I got into this game. Im sure a lot of you guys buy rounds by the case however, Im not the type to sit on a case of ammo that doesnt shoot well with any firearm. I would love to test SLR but struggle to find it in stock. Eley is the only one that I havent tried on your list and plan to make a purchse tonight.

There has to be some middle ground where you dont need sit by a computer waiting for stock to be replenished. Maybe sending the rifle off for lot testting would be better use of money so I can buy 5k rounds of whatever shoots the best but I think the distances of those factory test are limited to 100yds.

I have seen evidence of faster twist rates and longer barrel lenghts normilizing midtire ammo, allowing the user to shoot sub 2MOA reliably out to 300yds in ideal conditions. My rifle has yet to do this with the ammo I have tested and Im not sure it ever will regardless of the ammo selection. I am learning in this proccess and I feel it neccessary to question if 20" barrel lenthg at 1:16tw is optimal as I see multiple front of pack shooters running a different setup.

I know top rimfire smiths are cranking out some quality gear these days but I want to know the WHY they choose X vs Y. This can be taken further with reamer selection but thats a whole different can of worms.

I appreciate everyones feedback and will try each logical suggestion. I have some homework and testing to do. I have already used ammo seek as well as shooting bot to source some Eley. Will update with results when ammo comes in.

~Jay

The experience of myself and more than a handful of high volume long range Rimfire shooters is that aside from bench rest with wind flags, ammo cost is directly related to consistency. (BR shooters using tuners do some great shooting). You get what you pay for ammo wise. Center-X is hard to find because people are cheap, but dream of some incredible performance at a bargain price. The other untruth that is prevalent online is a small sample size being equated to an incredibly accurate lot (usually inexpensive) of ammo. At 200+, the groups need to be minimum 20 shots, after the bore is fouled. You will see very few of the big online talkers posting their 1 MOA 22LR groups at 200+. Even some familiar names here talk a lot of smack but don’t post targets with more than 5 shot groups out there.

 

[beetroot]

Just shoot inside of 200yards.

Unless you need to shoot further for specific competition, why pull your hair out?

If you can't get a consistent supply of ammo your rifle likes you are going to be forever ammo lot testing.

Try the best ammo your can find:
Lapua LR, Eley Tenex, RWS R50, etc
Shoot the entire box at 300yards over the chrony on a no wind day, what ever shoots best considering that the best possible accuracy.

You could rebarrel the rifle, add a tuner, etc, or decide it's not worth the effort/cost.

 

[oldrifleman]

Just picked up 200 of each - Eley Match, Tenex, and ELR from Battlehawk. Never bought from them before. @Inline6 your last post is the information that I have been waiting to see.

I hate the black magic part of all this. My brain wont let me accept it. I have a hard stop $$$$ on testing with this barrel before I try my hand at spinning up something or have this thing Lot tested. You all have been extremely helpful. Ill post data as soon as possible.

Welcome to precision Rimfire, we offer matching tee shirts and straight jackets.

 

[ChrisFetter]

Just shoot inside of 200yards.

Unless you need to shoot further for specific competition, why pull your hair out?

If you can't get a consistent supply of ammo your rifle likes you are going to be forever ammo lot testing.

Try the best ammo your can find:
Lapua LR, Eley Tenex, RWS R50, etc
Shoot the entire box at 300yards over the chrony on a no wind day, what ever shoots best considering that the best possible accuracy.

You could rebarrel the rifle, add a tuner, etc, or decide it's not worth the effort/cost.

We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard.

 

[Jwoo]

Had to sight in a new scope today. Still waiting on new ammo to arrive. Ran 100rds of CX. used 10rds to sight in and 10 used for tall target testing.

Best 10 shot grouping @ 100yds = .85" vertical, .30" wind
Best 20 shot grouping @ 100yds = .94" vertical, .74" wind

I did observe a cold bore shift at the 50yd which made me second guess my windage zero.

The shot groups seem to tighten up as the bore gets warmer.... I will try to source a thermal cam to record this next trip.

79 shots recorded with the XERO (1 got ejected due to cold range) the results for CX are as follows:

Min 1077.3 FPS
AVG 1091.9 FPS
Max 1110.3 FPS
ES 33.0 FPS
SD 6.2 FPS

Im curious how barrel temp impact MV and would it be worth it to set up a DAQ and thermo couple the exterior of the barrel at (X) interval.

Want to lower that ES for sure. I have not recored such a long string before. at most 30rds but typically 10 - 20.

More to come when the new ammo arrives.

 

[beetroot]

Had to sight in a new scope today. Still waiting on new ammo to arrive. Ran 100rds of CX. used 10rds to sight in and 10 used for tall target testing.

Best 10 shot grouping @ 100yds = .85" vertical, .30" wind
Best 20 shot grouping @ 100yds = .94" vertical, .74" wind

I did observe a cold bore shift at the 50yd which made me second guess my windage zero.

The shot groups seem to tighten up as the bore gets warmer.... I will try to source a thermal cam to record this next trip.

79 shots recorded with the XERO (1 got ejected due to cold range) the results for CX are as follows:

Min 1077.3 FPS
AVG 1091.9 FPS
Max 1110.3 FPS
ES 33.0 FPS
SD 6.2 FPS

Im curious how barrel temp impact MV and would it be worth it to set up a DAQ and thermo couple the exterior of the barrel at (X) interval.

Want to lower that ES for sure. I have not recored such a long string before. at most 30rds but typically 10 - 20.

More to come when the new ammo arrives.

33fps is about as good as you are going to get.

Over 10-20 shots you can get better but over 50+ an ES of 30-40fps isn't bad at all.

 

[Jwoo]

Yes sir, you are right on.

OP:
CCI is shit ammo in this conversation. Shoot a 20-30 shot group of Eley Match or Tenex, after seasoning the bore with at least 10 shots first.
Lots of posters are trying to be diplomatic here. Get off your damn wallet. XAct, Midas+, Tenex, Eley Match before you waste any more time messing around. I sound mean, but I’m trying to help you understand the realities of Rimfire at 200+.

Had the opportunity to shoot half a box of Lapua long range today... ABSOLUTE HAMMER!!!!!!!
200yds 10 round group was sub MOA did not keep the target but the grouping was under 2".
300yds things kinda opend up and I was slightly over 5".
Pretty damn surprised! At the time I built this rifle long range and super long range Lapua ammo was not a thing. Midas and XACT did not shoot as well as CX did. Stopped shooting for a little over 4 years ago.

Waiting on the Eley to come in but I have regained some confidence in this barrel.

 

[TheOE800]

Did you say you shot all the SK? Including Long Range Match? I find it comparable to Lapua or at the very least not disappointing for the price savings vs Lapua LR stuff.

 

[oldrifleman]

Did you say you shot all the SK? Including Long Range Match? I find it comparable to Lapua or at the very least not disappointing for the price savings vs Lapua LR stuff.

It should as I believe SK is owned by Lapua.

 

[Jwoo]

SK long range match was shot but I stopped after 10 rounds. Had a 40fps ES in that string. My buddy had roughly the same ES out of his CZ457 but he was crushing the 200yd mark with it. He pushed out to 300 and was able to print with it on an 18x24” target.

 

[TheOE800]

SK long range match was shot but I stopped after 10 rounds. Had a 40fps ES in that string. My buddy had roughly the same ES out of his CZ457 but he was crushing the 200yd mark with it. He pushed out to 300 and was able to print with it on an 18x24” target.

It’s good stuff, as far as I’ve seen. 30-40 ES is about par in rimfire.

 

[MarkCZ]

Had to sight in a new scope today. Still waiting on new ammo to arrive. Ran 100rds of CX. used 10rds to sight in and 10 used for tall target testing.

Best 10 shot grouping @ 100yds = .85" vertical, .30" wind
Best 20 shot grouping @ 100yds = .94" vertical, .74" wind

I did observe a cold bore shift at the 50yd which made me second guess my windage zero.

The shot groups seem to tighten up as the bore gets warmer.... I will try to source a thermal cam to record this next trip.

79 shots recorded with the XERO (1 got ejected due to cold range) the results for CX are as follows:

Min 1077.3 FPS
AVG 1091.9 FPS
Max 1110.3 FPS
ES 33.0 FPS
SD 6.2 FPS

Im curious how barrel temp impact MV and would it be worth it to set up a DAQ and thermo couple the exterior of the barrel at (X) interval.

Want to lower that ES for sure. I have not recored such a long string before. at most 30rds but typically 10 - 20.

More to come when the new ammo arrives.

A .94" and .85" at 100yds is not bad. For myself I like 5 shot groups. You can get them fired before the conditions change. Don't worry about the ES and SD, You can't do anything about it That is the Beast for a rimfire. Find the ammo that shoots best in your gun. You will have vertical in the group at longer ranges. I tuner will take the vertical out of the groups. If your barrel is threaded get a EC V2 tuner, if not threaded get something like a Harrell bolt on.

 

[oldrifleman]

A .94" and .85" at 100yds is not bad. For myself I like 5 shot groups. You can get them fired before the conditions change. Don't worry about the ES and SD, You can't do anything about it That is the Beast for a rimfire. Find the ammo that shoots best in your gun. You will have vertical in the group at longer ranges. I tuner will take the vertical out of the groups. If your barrel is threaded get a EC V2 tuner, if not threaded get something like a Harrell bolt on.

Agreed, don’t worry about the velocity! For the most part I track velocity only to track group size. Been shooting Rimfire for over 45 years and never had a way to check SD/ES so I just trusted the box for velocity, but I would track average group size and link to brand/velocity.

 

[Csafisher]

A .94" and .85" at 100yds is not bad. For myself I like 5 shot groups. You can get them fired before the conditions change. Don't worry about the ES and SD, You can't do anything about it That is the Beast for a rimfire. Find the ammo that shoots best in your gun. You will have vertical in the group at longer ranges. I tuner will take the vertical out of the groups. If your barrel is threaded get a EC V2 tuner, if not threaded get something like a Harrell bolt on.

You like tooooners because you use 5 shot groups……

 

[beetroot]

A .94" and .85" at 100yds is not bad. For myself I like 5 shot groups. You can get them fired before the conditions change. Don't worry about the ES and SD, You can't do anything about it That is the Beast for a rimfire. Find the ammo that shoots best in your gun. You will have vertical in the group at longer ranges. I tuner will take the vertical out of the groups. If your barrel is threaded get a EC V2 tuner, if not threaded get something like a Harrell bolt on.

ES is directly related to group size though. Inside of 150yards you can get away with a lot but at 300yards a high ES is going to give poor performance, the whole point of this this thread.

5 shot groups at 100yards are great if you want to cherry pick groups.

Notice how he said best groups were .94" and .85" that means the actual accuracy worse than that.

Again if the OP wants to shoot consistently at 300yards, cheery picking groups and ignoring ES isn't going to help.

 

[Buckhead]

Looking at the gongs you will notice that the 8 and 6 inch gongs have 100s of impacts. The 4 inch gong, however, has about 40 impacts.
That is a pretty good indication of the best accuracy one can expect from a 22LR

 

[MarkCZ]

I like tuner because they work. I shoot long range steel. I don't waste my time or ammo shooting 5, 10, 20, or what ever the group count is today. I only shoot groups when tuning. I set up 12" plates for sighters and shoot 4", 3 ", 2" and 1" at 200yds. I shoot Long Gong at 300yds 8", 6" and 4". I also shoot clays at 200yds and 300yds, I hit the clays then shoot the pieces. The OP has not said what type of shooting he does. If the end game is steel, then shoot steel.
The ES of your ammo is what it is. You can't change it. You have to shoot and know what is going to do down range. ES is not going the be your problem, The wing is going the be your problem. The OP said he shot SK Long Range, but stopped after 10 rounds due to ES of 40, but did not shoot it down range. I know ES will give you the vertical spread. I have taken 4" vertical spread at 200 yds down to 1" with a tuner. I done it many, many times.
I know a lot of guys don't tuners, and troll them ever chance they get. but you can shoot with a tuner or shoot against them in a match.

 

[oldrifleman]

Well said! I am actually pro-tuner, just can’t get one to fit my current toy ( non threaded barrel that is too fat for the clamp Ons).

 

[Inline6]

Well said! I am actually pro-tuner, just can’t get one to fit my current toy ( non threaded barrel that is too fat for the clamp Ons).

I'm running an ATS that is clamped on a 1.25". Food for thought.

 

[oldrifleman]

I'm running an ATS that is clamped on a 1.25". Food for thought.View attachment 8670694

Cool, I tried them, I can’t remember why not but I will take a run at them again! Mine is only 1.045” (Bartlein on Anschutz). Thanks!

 

[Csafisher]

I have taken 4" vertical spread at 200 yds down to 1" with a tuner. I done it many, many times.

That is literally laughable. I’m still waiting for one of you tuner bros to post up a test showing they work…..

 

[oldrifleman]

I understand but there is literally no way to prove they work to anyone else. I have struggled with them off and on for years. Back a few, Anschutz USA was clearing out some 54-18 actions do the Custom shop started creating 54-18 benchrest repeaters (yeah an oxymoron). I have their #1 rifle and I told Steve B that I didn’t need one. I was seeing some vertical so I bought a Harrels and put it on. Cleaned it up. Some ammo was more affected and as I buy cases, I live with the results. The thing is you can’t prove that you either didn’t lie about the good or that you didn’t fudge the bad. It is something a person has to be interested in and try’s for themselves.

 

[Jwoo]

Tuner is cheap enough to give it a whirl. Worst case Im out a couple hundo, best case I can stop chasing and burning ammo. I was on track to turn my own barrel with a 14 to 14.5 gain twist chambered with a 52D reamer. Lapua LR gave me confidence that this 20" ace barrel can print at distance so a new barrel has been put on hold until I can validate that there is an ammo type that works well consistenly. I could have turned my own tuner but I have no refrence for guidance.
I have the targets that I have tested with CX ranging from 50yds to 300yds. If I can clean up the verticle at 300yds without ruining closer accruacy, I would call it an improvment. I still have the same lot of CX ammo and will rerun a series of test back to back with and without the tuner and report back.

Still waiting on my Eley to come in for testing as well.

Anyone have a resasonble (not 1000 round single target) test they would like to see preformed? I have 50, 100, 207, and 307 yard distances I can shoot at.

-Jay