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.308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

#51
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ps. you can' t argue with the guys impressed by a hat, bumper sticker and some sugar flavored pepper... on the other hand the LMT did come with a full sized torque wrench not as cool as a can opener but a tool none the less. LOL </div></div>

The retail price on that hat, bottle opener, and etc are more then that torque wrench new.
grin.gif
I have heard of other people, as well as me, that broke that cheap torque wrench the first time we used it. Fortunately for me a LMT fan gave me a replacement.

On a side note replacement stainless barrels for the MWS are available. Only $700ish.
 
#52
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

I don't have a dog in either fight, but I'm considering the same choices if/when I pull the trigger on a precision .308.

I'm a HUGE LMT fanboy, as all of my AR-15s are LMT. Well, half of my SPR is LMT (lower and the upper is a Larue). Having said that, I have shot a 16" OBR. A friend brought it out on a recent 1000 yd steel outing literally right out of the box. He had some handloads for his bolt gun and just brought them out to try the function of the OBR as a side note. After a quick sight in, he shot at the 1K steel man for S&G's. He was on steel after 3-4 rounds I think and then was drilling it almost as fast as he could pull the trigger. We all ended up shooting the OBR at 1K and all got fairly consistant hits with an unfamiliar rifle. Anyway the point of the story is I could not believe how well the OBR shot at that distance with NON-tuned handloads.

I also loved how well the fit/finish and balance of the OBR was. I just picked up an LMT MWS for the 1st time and the 1st impression was "Holy cow this thing weighs a ton". It also felt very muzzle heavy. But I did think the MWS looked very well built and I'm a huge fan of the QC barrels. I have a piston MRP in 5.56 and REALLY like that capability.

As others have said, sure you can get any gun to shoot very accurately if you want to get a custom barrel and chamber fit custom work. But the OBR right out of the box is a shooter!
 
#53
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

Funny thing is, my 5 yr old GAP AR10 with a 2 yr old GAP 16" upper, total retail $2300 hits 1 moa @ 800 with factory ammo, and only needs 39MOA at sea level to 1000 yards. It's not rocket science it's called a good barrel. The question in my mind is, how is the OBR LW barrel gonna hold up across the board. Several years ago several of them were dying around 3000 rounds which precipitated the swing away from them because the longevity wasn't there.

LW using a different compound that some smiths say is hard to work with. It's why you don't see them mentioned when someone asks about top barrels. The guys at LW are great, the barrels are accurate clearly, but there is a reason they didn't catch on. We used them on the ghost dancer project done back in early 2000s. The push was there, but the spark didn't take.

Really it too early to tell. As well once the extensions become available, you can bet the LMT barrels will go down in price. The barrel is the heart of the AR10 platform, user changeability makes it a desirable package.

What I might do is write LMT a letter and ask them to consider including some garlic salt and corkscrew to sweeten the deal.
 
#54
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What I might do is write LMT a letter and ask them to consider including some garlic salt and corkscrew to sweeten the deal. </div></div>

They would also need to hire a resident internet dick to round out the package.
 
#55
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

I dont have any experience with the LMT 308, so I cant give you an objective opinion. But I do own an 18" OBR that I'm extremely pleased with.

The test target that came with the rifle from LaRue was decent, but nothing to write home about (.8" at 100yds or so with Federal GM Match). But my GAP Crusader spoiled me, so my first thought was "damn thats a big group". I was hoping the rifle tester at LaRue was just in a hurry
whistle.gif


So on my first outting with the rifle I brought a few different types of factory ammo, all 168gr. Prvi "match" (dont judge me
blush.gif
), American Eagle "match", and Hornady AMAX match. After getting on paper with the Prvi I shot a couple groups with it, and was somewhat disappointed. They were MOA groups at best. I immediately started doubting the rifle. Then I loaded up some of the Hornady. Whoa. Pictured below is one of the first groups I shot with it. I was worried at first about the AMAX because of the tip in the semiauto, but I didnt have a single issue. This OBR <span style="text-decoration: underline">really</span> likes that stuff. The American Eagle "match" grouped better than the Prvi, but still couldnt touch the Hornady. I'd be hard pressed to get better results with handloads. I cant wait to stretch the OBR's legs at longer ranges.
And only time will tell how long the accuracy of the barrel holds out...

5 shots at 100yds. Not bad for a semiauto.
IMG_1489.jpg

And here's the rifle.
IMG_1472.jpg
 
#56
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

20" LMT MWS barrel ordered. Should have in the next ten days or so. Soon we will see just how much more accurate a better barrel will be. Current 16" chrome is MOA at best, more like 1.25 MOA and thats with a bunch of mods to the stock LMT rifle.
 
#57
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

I see ML is crying over me again, cause I am not a fanboy... I just hope he doesn't try to tell on me again because I like a product other than his, like he did last time when I said I preferred a product other than his.

God bless our snipers, <span style="font-style: italic">but only if they agree with Mark Larue</span>

ps, mark you were never banned on here, so play the victim on someone else's back, cause I'm not gonna carry you.
 
#59
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

It's called "Cognitive dissonance" so when you paid more money for less features you have to make the "over blown rifle" the go to stick otherwise what was the point in paying more, unless it was the name, and the dillo dust. Which in it's self would make it silly, especially considering your SHTF scenario, in which case for me, I want a piston driver so it stays cleaner longer, you know like one of those cheaper just as accurate rifles coated in NP3.
 
#60
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

I actually have more money into my GAP, so that's not it. I've had some reliability issues with the GAP (which I blame mostly on the DPMS magazines), but I haven't had a single problem with the OBR (using Magpuls or LaRue mags). They both have the same barrel length and twist, and, in my hands at least, the GAP has a slight accuracy advantage. Both are sub-MOA. The weight advantage goes to the OBR. I especially like the OBR due to the port selector on the gas block. I have a Gemtech Quicksand waiting on a tax stamp, so that is an important feature the GAP doesn't give me.
 
#61
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

For the Fanboys on AR15...

Just remember, incase you missed it the first time, Mark came over here and attacked me first, never mind the cold call threat he made to my work because someone had the balls to ask me how come I was using GDI Mount in one of my videos over the Larue... the answer was simple, the GDI is better. This prompted him to call in an effort to shut me up. Stand up guy that ML is...

My opinion set off a shit storm, of which for most of it I wasn't even present. Mark went into tirade mode, shooting in all directions... it was a fun afternoon.

So when Mark says he has no clue why I no longer use his products, he is full of shit and he knows it. I even sent him an email after the first attack thanking him for giving to a class I attended at which point he attacked me again. I especially liked when he dumped on my service, but that is another story. God Bless our Snipers, <span style="font-style: italic">but only if they agree with Mark Larue</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">To Mark,</span> advertising dollars... trust me I don't need it, nor do I want it. You're the last person who should be talking about a cash cow. As far as fundamental reading, may not have banned you, but I certainly don't remove posts about LT either, you'd be hard pressed to show that, just more bs spin, cause you're such a victim, boo hoo.
 
#65
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

I remember a year or so ago on ARF when ML went on a tirade about ARMS. I don't know what the whole issue or truth was over all that, but it was sure revealing what kind of a guy Mark was. After reading all that, I decided LaRue wasn't a company I'd ever have anything to do with, regardless of anything about ARMS. It's amazing how many "lemmings" just plain bow to anything LaRue.
Just sayin...
 
#66
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

Damn, thanks for mentioning me Mark. I see you recognized where I mentioned you in this thread, lol.

Frank, I remember that whole episode when Mark threatened to call Jacob. Mark can't take criticism. Hell, he even mocks site staff on arfcom.
 
#67
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

He didn't threaten, he did, and he told him if I wasn't put on a leash he would go to "War" with them because of me... it was why the thread was pulled.

Since I am getting on a plane, maybe I just need to use the censored word script so nothing happens while I am away again.

this way, the only press he gets looks like, ***** .
 
#69
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

So heres my question. I'll take the OBR groups at face value. But the question is, is there a field reliabaility penalty? We dont use Bench Rest actions for tactical rifles to maintain field worthiness. Is the OBR "benchrest" tight where I would have to be concerned? My MWS was in the mud and dirt a bit at the last 3 gun match I shot. I was not worried. I would personally yield what I would consider diminished returns accuracy for field reliability. So simply, does the OBR give up some field reliability?




Shane
 
#70
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crossgun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">20" LMT MWS barrel ordered. Should have in the next ten days or so. Soon we will see just how much more accurate a better barrel will be. Current 16" chrome is MOA at best, more like 1.25 MOA and thats with a bunch of mods to the stock LMT rifle. </div></div>

You are short changing the CL barrel. Mine is sub moa with 40% of the loads I've tried. Not fluke groups but the average of three, five shot groups. Individule groups have gone as small as 1/2 moa. I'm sure the SS barrel will do better from what few groups I've seen. But give credit where it is due. LMT puts out a very accurate rifle with a CL barrel. No mode to my rifle except changing the SOPMOD to an A2. The fact that I can change the barrel is why I chose it over the POF, OBR or other rifle.
 
#71
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So heres my question. I'll take the OBR groups at face value. But the question is, is there a field reliabaility penalty? We dont use Bench Rest actions for tactical rifles to maintain field worthiness. Is the OBR "benchrest" tight where I would have to be concerned? My MWS was in the mud and dirt a bit at the last 3 gun match I shot. I was not worried. I would personally yield what I would consider diminished returns accuracy for field reliability. So simply, does the OBR give up some field reliability?

Shane </div></div>

I ran it for four days straight and approx 450 rnds at a Front Sight Class. I didn't clean it the first three, and we had to walk around the windy desert with our bolts open = lots of grit in the chamber. I didn't have a single malfunction. I'm convinced.
 
#72
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

My experience with my 18" OBR has been the same as Bandits. One hole groups at 100 - always. I have no experience with the LMT .308, but I'd go so far to say... It CANT be more accurate than my OBR. I can't imagine a more accurate rifle.

The LMT is less expensive.
 
#73
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

Well I am so glad the rifle works, apparently I spoke too soon, though apparently very accurately.

As with before Mark can't fight his own battles, especially when he starts it and I was asked to quiet my opinion. Seems like before, he again, yesterday in fact, contacted Jacob about <span style="font-style: italic">"me"</span> being<span style="font-style: italic"> "at it again"</span> so I was politely asked to cease the exchange. Seems Mark can't handle my opinion, the good ole country boy obviously doesn't handle criticism very well, in fact the email was sent before I even commented about his post mentioning me.

So, fanboys rejoice, ML builds the finest 308 Semi on the planet, all hail the might-tee Mark Larue, he is the AR god who smite all who resist.
 
#77
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

Regardless of which brand of rifle you select; LMT, LaRue and the POF seems to have been injected into the debate, I think we can all agree that it is a pretty interesting time for the battle rifle caliber AR platform.

Why do we choose the rifles we own? Reliability, customer service of the manufacture, accuracy, ergonomics and options all enter in to the decision.

How do these three manufactures measure up? Reliability, as these are all relatively new rifles I think the jury is still out. I see no reason to believe any of the three will be substandard. My LMT has over 1100 rounds through it and one session went over 400 rounds without cleaning. I have had no problems. Customer service seems to be exemplary from all three. Accuracy? My chrome lined LMT cannot match the groups I've seen photos of for the OBR and POF. However, I have seen photos of LMT targets where the SS barrel was used and it can match what I have seen of the other two. The chrome lined barrel exceeded my expectations and I doubt I'll buy the SS. Ergonomics is too subjective to address. You'll have to see what fits you. Options? What do you want? If piston or DI is an issue for you then take your choice. Triggers all seem to be good. My LMT was a bit gritty in the first 200 rounds but is good now. One piece forarm/rail VS multi-piece bolt on, a big deal to you, take your choice. The one feature that sets one rifle apart is the barrel change feature of the LMT. It ads flexibility to the 7.62 platform that the other manufactures can't match. Look at the history and evolution of the incredible AR15 platform over the past 10 years. The 7.62 AR platform cannot follow the same path because of the lack of compatibility between uppers and lowers between manufactures. All the bolt on stuff will work so why is this a bad thing? Barrel length and caliber conversion are manufacture dependent where uppers are concerned. The 5.56 AR platform has proven itself to be an extremely flexible and accurate platform. From the M4 to the various SPR rifles and Varminters you can find a rifle to fit most needs. New calibers abound, most were developed to address the shortcomings of the 5.56 round. The 5.56 round has been developed to the degree that it's long range accuracy lets it write checks that its terminal ballistics can't cash. So we get the various new 6.8, 6.5,.30 etc caliber cartridges seeking to get close to battle rifle caliber performance out of the smaller and lighter AR15 platform. Some of the new developments are outstanding and all are interesting but they all fall short of the performance of the bigger cartridges. If they did not I doubt there would be so much interest in the 7.62 AR platform. This type of development regarding caliber selection on the 7.62 AR platform is in its infancy. The LMT is the best option on today's market to take advantage of future developments. This feature alone sets it apart from the competition. Guess that is why they call it the Multipurpose Weapon System. If all you want is an accurate, dependable 7.62 AR I don't think there is a wrong choice between these three rifles. If your looking ahead and want a little more for your money get the LMT.
 
#78
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny thing is, my 5 yr old GAP AR10 with a 2 yr old GAP 16" upper, total retail $2300 hits 1 moa @ 800 with factory ammo, and only needs 39MOA at sea level to 1000 yards. It's not rocket science it's called a good barrel. The question in my mind is, how is the OBR LW barrel gonna hold up across the board. Several years ago several of them were dying around 3000 rounds which precipitated the swing away from them because the longevity wasn't there.

LW using a different compound that some smiths say is hard to work with. It's why you don't see them mentioned when someone asks about top barrels. The guys at LW are great, the barrels are accurate clearly, but there is a reason they didn't catch on. We used them on the ghost dancer project done back in early 2000s. The push was there, but the spark didn't take.

Really it too early to tell. As well once the extensions become available, you can bet the LMT barrels will go down in price. The barrel is the heart of the AR10 platform, user changeability makes it a desirable package.

What I might do is write LMT a letter and ask them to consider including some garlic salt and corkscrew to sweeten the deal. </div></div>

Lowlight...Only thing to remember is this!!!

If you have the funds to run over 3000+ rounds through a barrel, replacement cost really should not be an issue. Although the LaRue OBR has a "You ain't happy...We ain't happy" warranty, I doubt many would take advantage of a worn out barrel at 3000+ rounds. But...if they did, I will bet ML would honor it!!! Ask GAP or LMT to do the same and post the answer back here!
 
#79
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

The latest OBR brochure claims.estimated barrel life is about 10,000 rounds...whatever that means..
 
#80
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elementsdesign90</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny thing is, my 5 yr old GAP AR10 with a 2 yr old GAP 16" upper, total retail $2300 hits 1 moa @ 800 with factory ammo, and only needs 39MOA at sea level to 1000 yards. It's not rocket science it's called a good barrel. The question in my mind is, how is the OBR LW barrel gonna hold up across the board. Several years ago several of them were dying around 3000 rounds which precipitated the swing away from them because the longevity wasn't there.

LW using a different compound that some smiths say is hard to work with. It's why you don't see them mentioned when someone asks about top barrels. The guys at LW are great, the barrels are accurate clearly, but there is a reason they didn't catch on. We used them on the ghost dancer project done back in early 2000s. The push was there, but the spark didn't take.

Really it too early to tell. As well once the extensions become available, you can bet the LMT barrels will go down in price. The barrel is the heart of the AR10 platform, user changeability makes it a desirable package.

What I might do is write LMT a letter and ask them to consider including some garlic salt and corkscrew to sweeten the deal. </div></div>

Lowlight...Only thing to remember is this!!!

If you have the funds to run over 3000+ rounds through a barrel, replacement cost really should not be an issue. Although the LaRue OBR has a "You ain't happy...We ain't happy" warranty, I doubt many would take advantage of a worn out barrel at 3000+ rounds. But...if they did, I will bet ML would honor it!!! Ask GAP or LMT to do the same and post the answer back here! </div></div>

What if you have the funds to want to add four inches of barrel length to the barrel or want a different caliber? Who ya gonna call? Ask POF or LaRue what it will take and post the results back here.
 
#81
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elementsdesign90</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny thing is, my 5 yr old GAP AR10 with a 2 yr old GAP 16" upper, total retail $2300 hits 1 moa @ 800 with factory ammo, and only needs 39MOA at sea level to 1000 yards. It's not rocket science it's called a good barrel. The question in my mind is, how is the OBR LW barrel gonna hold up across the board. Several years ago several of them were dying around 3000 rounds which precipitated the swing away from them because the longevity wasn't there.

LW using a different compound that some smiths say is hard to work with. It's why you don't see them mentioned when someone asks about top barrels. The guys at LW are great, the barrels are accurate clearly, but there is a reason they didn't catch on. We used them on the ghost dancer project done back in early 2000s. The push was there, but the spark didn't take.

Really it too early to tell. As well once the extensions become available, you can bet the LMT barrels will go down in price. The barrel is the heart of the AR10 platform, user changeability makes it a desirable package.

What I might do is write LMT a letter and ask them to consider including some garlic salt and corkscrew to sweeten the deal. </div></div>

Lowlight...Only thing to remember is this!!!

If you have the funds to run over 3000+ rounds through a barrel, replacement cost really should not be an issue. Although the LaRue OBR has a "You ain't happy...We ain't happy" warranty, I doubt many would take advantage of a worn out barrel at 3000+ rounds. But...if they did, I will bet ML would honor it!!! Ask GAP or LMT to do the same and post the answer back here! </div></div>

Dude I seriously doubt LT would give you a new barrel for free if you shot out the old one. Please get ML to answer that question on barfcom since he's afraid to post over here.
 
#82
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

I can no longer comment on the subject of LT not even for the 1 post member who came on to defend ML and his product. <span style="font-style: italic">(Forget the fact it is silly to think he will honor a barrel being shot out at 3k.)</span> Nor can I mention I remembering Todd Hodnett shooting an HD Rifle that used the same LW barrel being used here, which died just before the match at RO. I believe it was about 2700 rounds according to Todd.

I will say, that no matter what, user changeability of a barrel will always trump having to send a rifle in to a smith to be replaced. It takes me 8 minutes to change the barrel on my AI rifles... the new Barrett MRAD has a similar system as the LMT, so this concept is the future of precision rifle, specifically in regards to barrel systems. What was done is the result of being late to the party, even by POF standards. Piston driven 308s run better, especially suppressed, the 308 dumps a lot of carbon in a DI system, so to offset that I would want, A.) a piston, or at least B.) a user changeable barrel system, otherwise, I bought old technology, especially when you consider a POF can match the accuracy, that I know for fact.<span style="font-style: italic"> ( A .gov went to LT and then to me to compare, he said the POF was better, his opinion not mine)</span>

However I am not allowed to comment on LT products anymore, so thanks for playing... I was given the koolaid to drink and I love it, cherry flavored, I think it was Jim Jones signature brands.
 
#83
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I can no longer comment on the subject of LT not even for the 1 post member who came on to defend ML and his product. <span style="font-style: italic">(Forget the fact it is silly to think he will honor a barrel being shot out at 3k.)</span> Nor can I mention I remembering Todd Hodnett shooting an HD Rifle that used the same LW barrel being used here, which died just before the match at RO. I believe it was about 2700 rounds according to Todd.

I will say, that no matter what, user changeability of a barrel will always trump having to send a rifle in to a smith to be replaced. It takes me 8 minutes to change the barrel on my AI rifles... the new Barrett MRAD has a similar system as the LMT, so this concept is the future of precision rifle, specifically in regards to barrel systems. What was done is the result of being late to the party, even by POF standards. Piston driven 308s run better, especially suppressed, the 308 dumps a lot of carbon in a DI system, so to offset that I would want, A.) a piston, or at least B.) a user changeable barrel system, otherwise, I bought old technology, especially when you consider a POF can match the accuracy, that I know for fact.<span style="font-style: italic"> ( A .gov went to LT and then to me to compare, he said the POF was better, his opinion not mine)</span>

However I am not allowed to comment on LT products anymore, so thanks for playing... I was given the koolaid to drink and I love it, cherry flavored, I think it was Jim Jones signature brands. </div></div>

Almost guaranteed you will get both choices in one.I'm sure LMT has planned for the addition of a piston barrel for the MWS just like they offer for the MRP.
 
#85
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any of these 308s are mostly about the barrels... as far as accuracy is concerned.

I just did a demo using 4 different models and the clear winner for accuracy was the POF... it shot sub .5 MOA out of the box, over an over. Why, they use Rock Creek Barrels. So the barrel is the deciding factor in terms of accuracy.

So, beyond simple 'accuracy" you have to look at other factors, because honestly what is the Larue that a custom AR10 from say GAP can't do ? Besides not being built to spec ? You can spec out a custom AR10, and easily have .5 MOA accuracy simply by getting the rifle fit and finished with a good custom barrel.

Now back to the comparison... I have question ? Where does the innovation lie and who has it, as well what are the long term benefits.

Getting in the door with a $2400 rifle, CM barrel, while it may not be as accurate as the rifle with the match SS barrel, has a lot of great <span style="text-decoration: underline">features...</span> I think features are key. Like allowing the user to order any barrel that can handle a 308 cartridge case and change it themselves in minutes. Be that 243, 260, or 308, you have multi system platform.

Now, let's talk DI versus Piston... in a 308, a piston drive the bolt and chamber area stays 100X cleaner, which is going to translate to function. Especially if you are going to run a suppressor.

I honestly think one of these is way overhyped compared to features... I don't see why someone can't build it just as accurate, cheaper when you consider this site built a custom GAP AR10 back in 2004 that was an absolute Hammer for $1900. If it's simply a matter of the 20MOA receiver... I am sure a upper kit from someone like a JD or if you have one from IRA can work. IRA has 23MOA to suit the S&B crowd so you get more elevation out of it.

Make you're decision but don't fall into the accuracy trap... look at the features, look at the use, and look to the long term. If you want accuracy alone POF has it in spades and I know someone with a bunch in stock right now looking to do a group buy at a SH discount. Accuracy within the system is nothing more than a good barrel. </div></div>

I quote the Larue OBR website...

"The LaRue OBR (Optimized Battle Rifle) was built from the ground up, using a newly designed upper-receiver platform, combined with a lower, inspired from our successful 5.56 MM lower. Both the upper and lower are CNC-machined from billet, for the optimum fit and consistency. Machined from billet 7075-T6, the receiver components are designed with more material in critical areas to alleviate known issues of weakness in 7.62 platforms and to stiffen the receiver....translating into maximum accuracy."

There is more to an accurate AR than the barrel (when your looking for .0X" groups). I know the bolt floats and there is no bedding to worry about... but what about chamber specs? What about harmonics? What if the gas tube it causing tension on the barrel? Its these little things that make the OBR the shooter it is. My OBR shoots sub .25 moa. Not JUST because it uses a better barrel. Look above - "stiffen the receiver".

I know that the POFs run cleaner and the LMTs are switch barrels, I agree the average SHTF ar308 junkie will well served by em', as they are no benchrest weenies - but I am. I use Lapua brass in my semi auto! I'll do anything to get the last .0000002" of my group. I have fallen deep into "the accuracy trap" and couldn't be happier. Couldn't be happier with my OBR.

BTW my OBR has never jammed.
 
#86
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

As I said before, I don't have a dog in either fight. I own both Larue and LMT products and LOVE them both. And LL, I don't know or frankly (no pun intended) care about your relationship with ML.

But an observation from the sidelines.... rather than just confining your opinions to the pros and cons of the OBR vs MWS, of which you had some very valid points - you instead chose to label anyone who bought a Larue product as mainly buying it for hats and some BBQ seasoning or liking it more because it cost more to justify their purchase. And you repeatedly said that throughout this thread. Once you did that a couple of times - you immediately labeled yourself as the "fanboy" you so often rail against. In addition, at least to me anyway - your once valid and supposedly objective points about the MWS's strengths over the OBR are now colored and called into question because of your apparent need to poke someone in the eye that you obviously don't get along with. Again, this is all IMHO and FWIW - I know my opinion doesn't mean anything to you. But I doubt I'm alone in thinking this thread devolved into a pissing match unnecessarily.

And before you jump in and accuse me of defending ML - I've never met him and wouldn't know him from Adam. Whatever personal flaws on the internet he might or might not have is irrelevant to me. I do know his company has treated me exceptionally well and they make a great product. And so does LMT.
 
#87
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

Voltage where in CT are you? I'd like to check out your OBR some time. Got a 400 yard range down in SE CT.
 
#89
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CST</div><div class="ubbcode-body">all you OBR lovers getting so called one holed groups...what ammo are you guys using? </div></div>

175smk over 42 of H4895. Althought I don't claim to get itty bitty groups, this load does group under MOA at 100 and can hit consistently at 1100 out of a 16" OBR.
 
#90
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

From the POF Website...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">POF-USA M.R.R.™ Modular Railed Receiver, billet machined 7075-T6
aircraft aluminum alloy</div></div>

Gee, same thing... as I said, when you show up late to the game with no innovation, it becomes all about the propaganda.
 
#91
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

Accuracy is not a magic bullet... not even at 800 yards in a strong wind on a 1 MOA target. And note scope used... not one known for tiny groups.

<object id="objVeeplePlayer" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,0,0" width="640" height="396" align="middle"><param name="width" value="640"/><param name="height" value="396"/><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"/><param name="movie" value="http://www.veeple.com/swf/VeeplePlayer.swf?siteId=5GLGxNj8HEg%253D&videoId=689550a5-38f2-4f47-ad07-1f01222891a1&userId=&baseUrl=http://www.veeple.com/&showSpots=1&showViewBar=1&showTabBar=1&mute=0&spotScaleMode=maintainAspectRatio&autoPlay=0&allowAddComments=0&allowShare=1&allowEmbedding=1&allowFullscreen=1&allowRating=1&stopPlayingOnInteractiveClick=1&displayRelatedVideos=0&showWorm=0&showLogo=0&logoIcon=1&whiteLabel=1&showTabClickableObjects=1&showTabDetails=0&showTabComments=1&playerMode=player&playerWidth=640&playerHeight=396&isFlex=0&recordEvents=1&deploymentUrl=http://www.snipershide.com%20"/><param name="quality" value="high"/><param name="bgcolor" value="#ffffff"/><param name="menu" value="false"/><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"/><embed id="embVeeplePlayer" src="http://www.veeple.com/swf/VeeplePlayer.swf?siteId=5GLGxNj8HEg%253D&videoId=689550a5-38f2-4f47-ad07-1f01222891a1&userId=&baseUrl=http://www.veeple.com/&showSpots=1&showViewBar=1&showTabBar=1&mute=0&spotScaleMode=maintainAspectRatio&autoPlay=0&allowAddComments=0&allowShare=1&allowEmbedding=1&allowFullscreen=1&allowRating=1&stopPlayingOnInteractiveClick=1&displayRelatedVideos=0&showWorm=0&showLogo=0&logoIcon=1&whiteLabel=1&showTabClickableObjects=1&showTabDetails=0&showTabComments=1&playerMode=player&playerWidth=640&playerHeight=396&isFlex=0&recordEvents=1&deploymentUrl=http://www.snipershide.com%20" quality="high" bgcolor="#ffffff" width="640" height="396" align="middle" allowScriptAccess="always" menu="false" allowFullScreen="true" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"><noembed><h1>Shooting a Semi Auto Lesson Teaser </h1>

AR10, SR25, 7.62, POF, Elcan, Rifles Only, Sniper rifle, Snipers Hide, Training, Tactical, Military, Law Enforcement </p>Veeple Interactive Video</noembed></embed></object>
 
#92
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

Call me "cynical" but I ain't buying the less then .25 moa groups and the consistent hits at a MILE! Not so certain that an OBR's reciever is anymore stiffer then a MONOLITHIC upper either. And according to one of the most respected action/base/rings manufacturers thoughts; anything behind the lugs could be made out of marshmellows; it wouldn't make much difference. Enjoy your OBR and let everyone else enjoy whatever they bought! I wonder how many other people will join this thread w/ 1 or 2 posts???
 
#93
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Voltage</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any of these 308s are mostly about the barrels... as far as accuracy is concerned.

I just did a demo using 4 different models and the clear winner for accuracy was the POF... it shot sub .5 MOA out of the box, over an over. Why, they use Rock Creek Barrels. So the barrel is the deciding factor in terms of accuracy.

So, beyond simple 'accuracy" you have to look at other factors, because honestly what is the Larue that a custom AR10 from say GAP can't do ? Besides not being built to spec ? You can spec out a custom AR10, and easily have .5 MOA accuracy simply by getting the rifle fit and finished with a good custom barrel.

Now back to the comparison... I have question ? Where does the innovation lie and who has it, as well what are the long term benefits.

Getting in the door with a $2400 rifle, CM barrel, while it may not be as accurate as the rifle with the match SS barrel, has a lot of great <span style="text-decoration: underline">features...</span> I think features are key. Like allowing the user to order any barrel that can handle a 308 cartridge case and change it themselves in minutes. Be that 243, 260, or 308, you have multi system platform.

Now, let's talk DI versus Piston... in a 308, a piston drive the bolt and chamber area stays 100X cleaner, which is going to translate to function. Especially if you are going to run a suppressor.

I honestly think one of these is way overhyped compared to features... I don't see why someone can't build it just as accurate, cheaper when you consider this site built a custom GAP AR10 back in 2004 that was an absolute Hammer for $1900. If it's simply a matter of the 20MOA receiver... I am sure a upper kit from someone like a JD or if you have one from IRA can work. IRA has 23MOA to suit the S&B crowd so you get more elevation out of it.

Make you're decision but don't fall into the accuracy trap... look at the features, look at the use, and look to the long term. If you want accuracy alone POF has it in spades and I know someone with a bunch in stock right now looking to do a group buy at a SH discount. Accuracy within the system is nothing more than a good barrel. </div></div>

I quote the Larue OBR website...

<span style="color: #FF0000">"The LaRue OBR (Optimized Battle Rifle) was built from the ground up, using a newly designed upper-receiver platform, combined with a lower, inspired from our successful 5.56 MM lower. Both the upper and lower are CNC-machined from billet, for the optimum fit and consistency. Machined from billet 7075-T6, the receiver components are designed with more material in critical areas to alleviate known issues of weakness in 7.62 platforms and to stiffen the receiver....translating into maximum accuracy."

There is more to an accurate AR than the barrel (when your looking for .0X" groups). I know the bolt floats and there is no bedding to worry about... but what about chamber specs? What about harmonics? What if the gas tube it causing tension on the barrel? Its these little things that make the OBR the shooter it is. My OBR shoots sub .25 moa. Not JUST because it uses a better barrel. Look above - "stiffen the receiver". </span>
I know that the POFs run cleaner and the LMTs are switch barrels, I agree the average SHTF ar308 junkie will well served by em', as they are no benchrest weenies - but I am. I use Lapua brass in my semi auto! I'll do anything to get the last .0000002" of my group. I have fallen deep into "the accuracy trap" and couldn't be happier. Couldn't be happier with my OBR.

BTW my OBR has never jammed. </div></div>As mentioned above, the POF has been a billet machined piece for a while now. Nothing new there. I'd like to see some FEN on the Larue receiver and see just exactly where they say it's "stronger" therefore "more accurate". I'd also like to see some FEN comparisons between an Armalite forged 7175 T73 receiver and the 7075 T6 billet pieces.
And "gas tube causing tension on the barrel"?? Really?
 
#94
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Call me "cynical" but I ain't buying the less then .25 moa groups and the consistent hits at a MILE! Not so certain that an OBR's reciever is anymore stiffer then a MONOLITHIC upper either. And according to one of the most respected action/base/rings manufacturers thoughts; anything behind the lugs could be made out of marshmellows; it wouldn't make much difference. Enjoy your OBR and let everyone else enjoy whatever they bought! I wonder how many other people will join this thread w/ 1 or 2 posts??? </div></div>

Who the hell is claiming consistent hits at a mile? I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone claim consistent hits at a mile with any .308. Maybe I missed something....
 
#96
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I am so glad the rifle works, apparently I spoke too soon, though apparently very accurately.

As with before Mark can't fight his own battles, especially when he starts it and I was asked to quiet my opinion. Seems like before, he again, yesterday in fact, contacted Jacob about <span style="font-style: italic">"me"</span> being<span style="font-style: italic"> "at it again"</span> so I was politely asked to cease the exchange. Seems Mark can't handle my opinion, the good ole country boy obviously doesn't handle criticism very well, in fact the email was sent before I even commented about his post mentioning me.

So, fanboys rejoice, ML builds the finest 308 Semi on the planet, all hail the might-tee Mark Larue, he is the AR god who smite all who resist. </div></div>


You may not like it, but in my opinion, you are both acting like children, and I would expect more out of two successful and generally well respected businessmen than to be exchanging insults in open media and relentlessly bashing the products each provide.


And yes, I'm going to post this exact text over on the ar15.com thread listed.
 
#97
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I am so glad the rifle works, apparently I spoke too soon, though apparently very accurately.

As with before Mark can't fight his own battles, especially when he starts it and I was asked to quiet my opinion. Seems like before, he again, yesterday in fact, contacted Jacob about <span style="font-style: italic">"me"</span> being<span style="font-style: italic"> "at it again"</span> so I was politely asked to cease the exchange. Seems Mark can't handle my opinion, the good ole country boy obviously doesn't handle criticism very well, in fact the email was sent before I even commented about his post mentioning me.

So, fanboys rejoice, ML builds the finest 308 Semi on the planet, all hail the might-tee Mark Larue, he is the AR god who smite all who resist. </div></div>


You may not like it, but in my opinion, you are both acting like children, and I would expect more out of two successful and generally well respected businessmen than to be exchanging insults in open media and relentlessly bashing the products each provide.


And yes, I'm going to post this exact text over on the ar15.com thread listed. </div></div>

Didnt you know that is ML's MO, if you dont share his opinion then yours is wrong.
 
#98
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

I've shot the POF, OBR, and MWS. I own the OBR, but only because I was able to get it at the same price as the MWS. Muzzle velocity on the OBR was 2575 with FGMM 175.

This arguement is like the Mercedes vs BMW vs ....

All of these guns rock.

The OBR's downside is the taller upper rail - same downside the POF has really. Reliability on the OBR is 100% in my shooting.

I was able to get a standard cheek weld on the OBR by selecting two of the 30mm aimpoint rings that were made for the HK416. They are .5 lower than normal and put my NF 2.5-10x24 in the right spot for me. This is with the CTR stock.

All that said - I really like the POF and the MWS. They are good guns. The MWS is a lot of bang for the buck. The POF shoots really well.
 
#99
Re: .308 Rifle Opinions - LMT vs. Larue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr.M14</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've shot the POF, OBR, and MWS. I own the OBR, but only because I was able to get it at the same price as the MWS. Muzzle velocity on the OBR was 2575 with FGMM 175.

This arguement is like the Mercedes vs BMW vs ....

All of these guns rock.

The OBR's downside is the taller upper rail - same downside the POF has really. Reliability on the OBR is 100% in my shooting.

I was able to get a standard cheek weld on the OBR by selecting two of the 30mm aimpoint rings that were made for the HK416. They are .5 lower than normal and put my NF 2.5-10x24 in the right spot for me. This is with the CTR stock.

All that said - I really like the POF and the MWS. They are good guns. The MWS is a lot of bang for the buck. The POF shoots really well. </div></div>

Im getting 2475 at 15 yards = 2496 muzzle velocity with my 18" OBR and 175 fggm. Thats at 50 degrees f though. You have an 18 or a 20?
 
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