.308 Winchester

[AlabamaShooter]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

175 grain SMK
43.4 grains of IMR 4895
CCI Br-2 primers
Lapua brass
OAL 2.82

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

My boring old load works well in my new tube, but with LC match instead of Win brass:

168 Nosler HPBT
42.6gr IMR4895
LC Match brass (weight sorted to a +/- 2gr spread)
CCI or FED match primers (non-mag)
2.805 OAL (2.338 comp)
2710fps

Rock 26.5" 1:10 5R Obermeyer chamber

 

[Slickrick0999]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

175 SMK HPBT
44.1 gr of Ramshot TAC
Win Brass (Prepped)
CCI BR2 primers
2.80 OAL
2650 FPS

Kreiger 22" 1:11

Shootin' Sweet.
I have been using the 178 AMAX lately and really like it, just dont know the Velocity.

 

[JALVI]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lapua 155 Scenar coated with HbN
Lapua Brass
CCI match primer or plano CCI primer, I see no difference other than price
45.9 RL15
COAL 2.86 </div></div>

Might be a sily question, but what is HbN?

 

[Ares]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

New type of bullet coating - Hexagonal Boron Nitride
(http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/applying-boron-nitride-hbn-to-bullets/)

 

[Rixy52]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gents, going to start loading my own soon.

It seems like I see far more people using RL15 for the 175 SMK, as opposed to Varget, why is that? Might try the 178 A-Max as well.

Gun will be my bone stock 10FP. </div></div>

RL15 burns slightly faster than Varget. Other than that it's just personal preference. I used RL15 for some .223 loads so I had some lying around when I got my .308.

 

[Colt45guy]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

Just started loading for my new 5R 24" 1:11.25 twist....taking things slowly and building up, and using the only powder that I could find last month during the ObamaFrenzy.


175gr SMK
Win LR primer
Once fired Win brass, trimmed to 2.015
37.0 gr Benchmark
Seated to 2.800 COAL

(eta: I don't have a chronograph yet, but Sierra data sheet says it should be 2400 FPS out of a 26" barrel 1:10 twist)

Target was 100 yds (measured) 62F and about 99% humidity (had just rained) and fired from prone with bipod and a sand sock under the stock.



Top group of 5 shots is a hair under 1/2" (center to center)

Single round was a scope adjustment confirmation shot

made another adjustment and fired the next 5.....and got the most impressive group I've ever shot---but I don't know if I should have bought a lottery ticket instead of shooting until I can pull this off again at will.

Bottom (center) group is 5 shots that measured in at .182" center to center.

I've only put 41 rounds through this rifle so far, and it was averaging right at 1/2 MOA until that last group.

 

[bob6117]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

175gr.SMK
Lapua Brass
Federal 210m
IMR 4895 42.7gr
COAL 2.785
2625 fps. Bartlein 22"

 

[CVO]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

I need a starting load for a Rem 5r using Varget, 155 Lupua Scenars, CCI BR and Nosler brass.

thanks

 

[1911.it]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

I'm going to amend this recommendation to 46.7grs Varget based on load testing I did today between the two listed charges. I shot 25 rounds each, and the avg for the 47gr load was 2876 fps and the 46.7 gr load was 2866 fps at 38* ambient temperature. The rifle is a GAP Crusader in .308 Win w/22" Bartlein barrel, 1:11.25 twist. This rifle has what I consider a tight, match chamber.

All rounds were with new Win brass, Federal 210m primers, Lapua 155gr Scenar, COAL ~2.875". I use the Redding Type-S Match Bushing 3-die set with a .335" neck bushing. I shot 2x10 round groups each. The 46.7gr groups were a shade over .7 MOA with one group at .398" w/2 flyers. The 47gr groups were a little over 1.10" and obviously not very consistent. Both of the 46.7gr groups were tight, one hole groups other than the two flyers I mentioned.

 

[CVO]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911.it</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try 47 grs Varget with 155gr Scenars. Please note that is the max charge of Varget w/155gr Scenars. </div></div>


noted, thanks.

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

alright guys, all this info is good stuff. but can anyone tell me how many grains of varget to start off with in lapua brass with 178 amax's. currently im using rl 15 and getting 2700 with 44 grain with an oal of 2.873

 

[TCA4570]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

I have used 44.4 RL-15 w/168 A-MAX.
Hornady match cases.
Br2 Primers.
2730 in the cold.

Rl 15 was not expanding the cases properley under these conditions.

Getting warmer now, and may have found Varget to be direct, weight replacement.

Changing cases to Lapua.

Speed will be checked again, under current conditions.

TC

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

Start with 42-43 grs. Varget and move up from there.
Respectfully,
LG

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

Here's a generic 155 Scenar load for anyone looking...

155gr Lapua Scenar
43.8gr H4895
Lapua, Remington, or Winchester brass
Wolf Magnum or Rem 9 1/2 (not magnum) primers
2.818 COAL (Ogieve @0.000" on RCBS mic)


This produced 2850fps out of my 22" Rock barrel in 45* temps a few hundred feet ASL. @ 44gr the brass started to show slightly flat primers, @ 44.7gr some of the smaller capacity brass would occasionally have a very faint extractor wipe. No significant MV gain was experienced between 43.8 and 44.7 (44.7 was something like 2875). 42.9gr produced ~2725fps in my barrel.

Shoots 3/4MOA 5 shots edge-to-edge, @ 200 yds in my gun.

This length is 0.040" jump in my chamber.

 

[Grump]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

1911it posted:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to amend this recommendation to 46.7grs Varget based on load testing I did today between the two listed charges. I shot 25 rounds each, and the avg for the 47gr load was 2876 fps and the 46.7 gr load was 2866 fps at 38* ambient temperature. The rifle is a GAP Crusader in .308 Win w/22" Bartlein barrel, 1:11.25 twist.

All rounds were with new Win brass, Federal 210m primers, Lapua 155gr Scenar, COAL 3.254". I need to back off this length a little as the meplat were right against the mag wall.</div></div>

Are you sure? When I seat Lapuas, they have about .07 or so in the neck at OAL of 3.02. 3.254 is beyond where the bullets aren't even IN the neck. Schutzen-style jam the bullet in the throat and then load the charged case into the chamber? Doubt it.

 

[Lazuris]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">alright guys, all this info is good stuff. but can anyone tell me how many grains of varget to start off with in lapua brass with 178 amax's. currently im using rl 15 and getting 2700 with 44 grain with an oal of 2.873</div></div>

I treat the 175SMK and 178 Amax as the same
44.6g Varget
Laupa Brass
F210 or WLR
2.8 OAL with the AMAX a scooch longer due to the plastic tip.

 

[Grump]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I treat the 175SMK and 178 Amax as the same</div></div>

I found I cannot do the same with 155 Noslers/Lapuas vs. A-Maxes. The A-Max has a bearing surface about .05 longer = pressure signs in loads OK with the other 155s.

Still testing, so don't have reliable velocity numbers yet.

 

[Cape2]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

Hats off to all the good info on this site..looking for some starting info as a newbie to rifle loading...
Rem 700 Heavy barrel stock 308..24"..took action and barrel to a new stock, floated barrel and trigger
looking to get info for 168 gr Sierra BTHP..RL 15 and 210 primers..
started at 42 grains with good accuracy and ave 2526 chrono..
not sure if I need to work up for FPS as I will be shooting under 500-600 yards...got 2650 ave with 44 grains??
also looking to use BH/Fed cases with some LC
Thanks for any info

 

[Grump]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

2526 fps at your typical 10-ft chrono is a bit low compared to USGI (2550 +/- 30 fps at 78 feet about = 2590 at our chrono screens).

However, accuracy is king here. If your groups are itty-bitty and you aren't obsessed with getting 1/2-MOA less wind drift, that bullet and speed will do just fine out to 600. It might even do okay to 800...but past that and you're going transsonic.

Those M1 Garand shooters are SUBsonic at 600 with M2 Ball. It won the war but won't win matches....

 

[arrrrgh15]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

New reloader trying to load 175 smk to closely match Black Hills 175gr match ammo. Trying to keep the same data or close to it.

Using 175gr SMK, black hills brass, Fed 210M primers and looking for a 2600 fps velocity from a 24" bartlein barrel. I'm using Varget powder for now but I might try RL15 too, depending on what I can find in stock.

I'm just looking for a starting point for the powder amount that'll get me close. I'm ordering a chronograph and will try and tweek it later.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Slickrick0999]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

Try starting @ 42.5grains and working up.

 

[Asm1]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

18.5" savage fatory tub 1-10 twist
155 scenar
LC LR brass
46.6 RL15
210M
2.260 OJIVE
.0015 OFF THE LANDS

2850fps

 

[Dirknar]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's a generic 155 Scenar load for anyone looking...

155gr Lapua Scenar
43.8gr H4895
Lapua, Remington, or Winchester brass
Wolf Magnum or Rem 9 1/2 (not magnum) primers
2.818 COAL (Ogieve @0.000" on RCBS mic)


This produced 2850fps out of my 22" Rock barrel in 45* temps a few hundred feet ASL. @ 44gr the brass started to show slightly flat primers, @ 44.7gr some of the smaller capacity brass would occasionally have a very faint extractor wipe. No significant MV gain was experienced between 43.8 and 44.7 (44.7 was something like 2875). 42.9gr produced ~2725fps in my barrel.

Shoots 3/4MOA 5 shots edge-to-edge, @ 200 yds in my gun.

This length is 0.040" jump in my chamber.

</div></div>

Awesome.. this is EXCACTly what I was looking for. Ive got the scenars/lc-match brass/H4895/GAP 24" from the lug rifle. except can I substitute the primers with Fed210's?

 

[arrrrgh15]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: arrrrgh15</div><div class="ubbcode-body">New reloader trying to load 175 smk to closely match Black Hills 175gr match ammo. Trying to keep the same data or close to it.

Using 175gr SMK, black hills brass, Fed 210M primers and looking for a 2600 fps velocity from a 24" bartlein barrel. I'm using Varget powder for now but I might try RL15 too, depending on what I can find in stock.

I'm just looking for a starting point for the powder amount that'll get me close. I'm ordering a chronograph and will try and tweek it later.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. </div></div>

....and the correct answer was 43.5 gr. I chrono'd the black hills 175 gr match and my reloads and came up with the same velocity, roughly 2619. I tested the ammo out to 1000 yards in 100 yard increments and it matched up perfectly.

I may never buy ammo again.

 

[King-Kong]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

Rifle: Remignton sps-v factory barrel chopped to 24"+br supressor.


Scenar 155gr.
Lapua brass.
Vihtavuori N-150 46gr.
CCI large rifle primer.
OAL 73mm or 2.874"
846m/s or 2777Fps

Warning:this is pretty hot load. 47 is pretty much a max.

 

[Hondo64d]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

So far, the 168gr Ballistic Tips are impressing me. These are five shot groups from a bipod. This is only a #5 barreled 9 pound rifle, so I am pretty happy. OAL includes Sinclair bullet comparitor. These are about .030" from the lands in my rifle.

43.5gr averaged 2662

44.5gr averaged 2701

John

 

[ralfabco]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

Any advice with a bone-stock Steyr SSG 69 P-1 ?

1:12 twist with 4 lands and grooves
26" barrel

I am going to use Lapua brass.

____________

What bullet works best ?

168 Berger ?
175 SMK ?
A-Max ?

 

[justramit]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

I am going to try the 168 grain ballistics tips in my VTR using the OCW method. I will be using Lapua Brass, CCI 200 primers and Ramshot TAC from 41.6 to 44.4 grains in .4 grain increments. The question I have is where should I seat them. I can shoot .4's @ 100yds with factory FGGM with this rifle. Should I seat the ballistic tips ogive to same distance from the lands as the FGGM, or seat them as far out as I can for mag?

Thanks

Justin

 

[ralfabco]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

Any opinions ?

What is probably best for a bone stock Steyr SSG 69 P-1 ?

.308 26" barrel 1-12 twist with 4 lands and grooves.



155

or

168


Thanks

 

[grunt0311]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

Has anyone shot the M118LR out of their spec M40a1 or M40a3? Just curious how the round shoots through them. Also has anyone tried to duplicate that round and shot it out of those rifles? I have an m40a3 that I would like to shoot M118LR out of, just wanted to see what others were shooting through theirs.

 

[81sfo]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC Grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone shot the M118LR out of their spec M40a1 or M40a3? Just curious how the round shoots through them. Also has anyone tried to duplicate that round and shot it out of those rifles? I have an m40a3 that I would like to shoot M118LR out of, just wanted to see what others were shooting through theirs. </div></div>
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1090006&gonew=1#UNREAD

 

[Hondo64d]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

I am going to try the 168 grain ballistics tips in my VTR using the OCW method. I will be using Lapua Brass, CCI 200 primers and Ramshot TAC from 41.6 to 44.4 grains in .4 grain increments. The question I have is where should I seat them. I can shoot .4's @ 100yds with factory FGGM with this rifle. Should I seat the ballistic tips ogive to same distance from the lands as the FGGM, or seat them as far out as I can for mag?

Thanks

Justin

I just seated mine to magazine length, which happens to be about .030" off the lands with this bullet in my rifle. It seems to like them there...

John

 

[Falar]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

Armalite AR10A4
21" Stainless Steel Noveske barrel, 1/10" polygonal rifling
PWS "Flash Suppressing muzzle brake"
Tubb CWS with Tungsten "heavy" insert, ~4oz
MGI RRB Buffer, 7.2oz
Tubb Flat-Wire Chrome-Silicon Buffer Spring
Geissele DMR Trigger

Charges are +/- .1gr

46gr Varget, 155gr Scenar, New Win Brass, CCI BR2 primer

1. 2770
2. 2766
3. 2751
4. 2725
5. 2749
6. 2729
7. 2744
8. 2732
9. 2733
10. 2726

Remarks: Primers normal, no ejector marks but shiny spots from ejector are present
Conditions: 70deg, cloudy, 52% humidity, 52deg dewpoint, pressure 30.03, winds from ENE 9mph
Shooting direction: North

Avg. 2742.5 fps
ES: 45fps
SD: 13.5fps

45gr Varget, 175gr SMK, New Win Brass, CCI BR2 primer

1. 2634
2. 2639
3. 2641
4. 2613
5. 2644
6. 2636
7. 2626
8. 2616
9. 2613
10. 2651

Remarks: Primers slightly flattened, deep crescent shaped ejector marks. 1 popped primer.
Conditions same as above

Avg. 2631.3 fps
ES: 38fps
SD: 11.44fps

Velocities recorded using Shooting Chrony Gamma model 10' from muzzle.


Looks like the 175gr SMK load is way too hot for my AR10. I know other AR10 guys using this same load though so YMMV. The primer may have popped out when the brass hit the ground, I didn't find it inside my gun.

Neither loads were crimped.

 

[JLM]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

Is it just me or do I see way more 210/210M's used with Varget/H4895 here than I do BR2's? Is there some reason for this?

 

[david walter]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hondo64d</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So far, the 168gr Ballistic Tips are impressing me. These are five shot groups from a bipod. This is only a #5 barreled 9 pound rifle, so I am pretty happy. OAL includes Sinclair bullet comparitor. These are about .030" from the lands in my rifle.

43.5gr averaged 2662

44.5gr averaged 2701

John
</div></div>

What length barrel?

 

[jester5900]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

What is sectional density? I have no clue...

 

[Grump]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

It's a weight to diameter thing. Same SD for all bullets of the same weight, but different BCs depending on how pointy they are among themselves.

I think it's supposed to give some indication of penetration potential.

Sectional density is why arrows go through-and-though so well despite pathetic velocities. That, plus the sharp point and going slow enough that they don't destroy themselves from the tip back. Even a "blunt-skull" tip and low speed will want to go through a whole bale of straw.

 

[Hondo64d]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

So far, the 168gr Ballistic Tips are impressing me. These are five shot groups from a bipod. This is only a #5 barreled 9 pound rifle, so I am pretty happy. OAL includes Sinclair bullet comparitor. These are about .030" from the lands in my rifle.

43.5gr averaged 2662

44.5gr averaged 2701

John

What length barrel?

22" Krieger

John

 

[david walter]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

thanks.

 

[el gordo2]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

These were shot from a stock FN SPR with a 24" barrel.I decided to play with this load and it consisted of the following: Federal .308 Win GM brass and 210M primer, 44.5 gr of Varget with a 168gr A Max at various OAL's. They were fired "round robin" style. I am noticing alot of POI shifting in these.


2.915" 2716 2721 2701 AVG 2712

2.905" 2681 2726 2708 AVG 2705

2.895" 2701 2692 2712 AVG 2701

2.887" 2704 2714 2702 AVG 2706

2.880" 2701 2737 2724 AVG 2720


All rounds combined averaged 2709 with a ES of 56 and and SD of 14. The load using 2.887" OAL shot the best at .35" , and it's the load I have been using with the varget/amax combo. It's nice that it fits in the magazine too.

Next up I decided on trying the Sierra 155gr MK Palma

Federal 308 Win GM brass and 210M primer using various charges of Varget all at 2.772" OAL


46.1grs 2804 2802 2796 AVG 2800

46.4grs 2821 2850 2819 AVG 2839

46.7grs 2844 2853 2844 AVG 2847

47.0grs 2861 2853 2851 AVG 2855

47.3grs 2890 2872 2870 AVG 2877

I understand these are only 3 shot groups but I go with these first and then find the better groups and then will do 5 shot groups.

The 46.1 groups measured .1" and the 47.0 load went .44" so I'll be testing those in the future. Again, there is a noticable shift in POI with the differnt powder charges. The extreme spreads are promising, only more rounds down the tube will tell though, most were appx 10 FPS.

 

[justramit]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hondo64d</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: justramit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to try the 168 grain ballistics tips in my VTR using the OCW method. I will be using Lapua Brass, CCI 200 primers and Ramshot TAC from 41.6 to 44.4 grains in .4 grain increments. The question I have is where should I seat them. I can shoot .4's @ 100yds with factory FGGM with this rifle. Should I seat the ballistic tips ogive to same distance from the lands as the FGGM, or seat them as far out as I can for mag?

Thanks

Justin </div></div>


I just seated mine to magazine length, which happens to be about .030" off the lands with this bullet in my rifle. It seems to like them there...

John </div></div>


Man the throat is wayyyyy long on mine. I seated them to mag length 2.830 and they are still .160" from lands. Couldn't get them to group very well with TAC, but I stopped at like 44 grains I think I should have tried hotter loads. I tried reloader 15 from 44 to 47 grains and 45 grains looks promising @ 2660 fps. Need to load up a bigger batch when I get back home though. Only shot 3 shot groups

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

I just got an email from Hornady with some new published data for the 308 Win with the 208 A-max. Here is what Hornady listed:

308 Win- 208 Amax, WLR primer, Hornady brass, Win M70 22", 2.80", 1:12" twist

Varget-
Start load: 34.9 @ 2100 fps
Max load: 40.0 @ 2300 fps

IMR 4064
Start load: 36.2 @ 2100 fps
Max load: 41.0 @ 2350 fps

R15
Start load: 38.2 @ 2100 fps
Max load: 43.2 @ 2400 fps

Win 748
Start load: 37.9 @ 2100 fps
Max load: 44.6 @ 2450 fps

 

[Ishallbie O'Cullkillin]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Armalite AR10A4
21" Stainless Steel Noveske barrel, 1/10" polygonal rifling
PWS "Flash Suppressing muzzle brake"
Tubb CWS with Tungsten "heavy" insert, ~4oz
MGI RRB Buffer, 7.2oz
Tubb Flat-Wire Chrome-Silicon Buffer Spring
Geissele DMR Trigger

Charges are +/- .1gr

46gr Varget, 155gr Scenar, New Win Brass, CCI BR2 primer

1. 2770
2. 2766
3. 2751
4. 2725
5. 2749
6. 2729
7. 2744
8. 2732
9. 2733
10. 2726

Remarks: Primers normal, no ejector marks but shiny spots from ejector are present
Conditions: 70deg, cloudy, 52% humidity, 52deg dewpoint, pressure 30.03, winds from ENE 9mph
Shooting direction: North

Avg. 2742.5 fps
ES: 45fps
SD: 13.5fps

45gr Varget, 175gr SMK, New Win Brass, CCI BR2 primer

1. 2634
2. 2639
3. 2641
4. 2613
5. 2644
6. 2636
7. 2626
8. 2616
9. 2613
10. 2651

Remarks: Primers slightly flattened, deep crescent shaped ejector marks. 1 popped primer.
Conditions same as above

Avg. 2631.3 fps
ES: 38fps
SD: 11.44fps

Velocities recorded using Shooting Chrony Gamma model 10' from muzzle.


Looks like the 175gr SMK load is way too hot for my AR10. I know other AR10 guys using this same load though so YMMV. The primer may have popped out when the brass hit the ground, I didn't find it inside my gun.

Neither loads were crimped. </div></div>Falar, that's quite the rig you've got there. Since you took the risk of shooting the hot Varget 175gr load, how did it group? I have an AR10A4, stock 1/10 twist medium wt. chrome lined barrel, and my go to load has been 168 AMAX, 43.5gr H4895,Fed210m primer, oal @ 2.81", Winchester brass. This load is reliably MOA, with the occasional 3 shots in one hole. Noveske is right down the road & I have really wanted a barrel like yours for a long time.

 

[Grump]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: el gordo2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These were shot from a stock FN SPR with a 24" barrel.I decided to play with this load and it consisted of the following:
[snip]
Next up I decided on trying the Sierra 155gr MK Palma

Federal 308 Win GM brass and 210M primer using various charges of Varget all at 2.772" OAL


46.1grs 2804 2802 2796 AVG 2800

46.4grs 2821 2850 2819 AVG 2839

46.7grs 2844 2853 2844 AVG 2847

47.0grs 2861 2853 2851 AVG 2855

47.3grs 2890 2872 2870 AVG 2877

I understand these are only 3 shot groups but I go with these first and then find the better groups and then will do 5 shot groups.

The 46.1 groups measured .1" and the 47.0 load went .44" so I'll be testing those in the future. Again, there is a noticable shift in POI with the differnt powder charges. The extreme spreads are promising, only more rounds down the tube will tell though, most were appx 10 FPS.

</div></div>
Between my LC brass and WLR primers, I'm right near your speeds with a 22-inch barrel, Gordo2. Went up to 46.0 for 2825, and am going to check 46.5 and 47.0 for any OCW goodness.

Any pressure signs on your 47.3 Varget loads? I'd stop there just because the velocity is all we should really hope for from a 24-inch. Any faster, even if it *has no* pressure signs, would probably just accelerate barrel wear, I would think.

 

[Falar]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlcoholicusRex</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Armalite AR10A4
21" Stainless Steel Noveske barrel, 1/10" polygonal rifling
PWS "Flash Suppressing muzzle brake"
Tubb CWS with Tungsten "heavy" insert, ~4oz
MGI RRB Buffer, 7.2oz
Tubb Flat-Wire Chrome-Silicon Buffer Spring
Geissele DMR Trigger

Charges are +/- .1gr

46gr Varget, 155gr Scenar, New Win Brass, CCI BR2 primer

1. 2770
2. 2766
3. 2751
4. 2725
5. 2749
6. 2729
7. 2744
8. 2732
9. 2733
10. 2726

Remarks: Primers normal, no ejector marks but shiny spots from ejector are present
Conditions: 70deg, cloudy, 52% humidity, 52deg dewpoint, pressure 30.03, winds from ENE 9mph
Shooting direction: North

Avg. 2742.5 fps
ES: 45fps
SD: 13.5fps

45gr Varget, 175gr SMK, New Win Brass, CCI BR2 primer

1. 2634
2. 2639
3. 2641
4. 2613
5. 2644
6. 2636
7. 2626
8. 2616
9. 2613
10. 2651

Remarks: Primers slightly flattened, deep crescent shaped ejector marks. 1 popped primer.
Conditions same as above

Avg. 2631.3 fps
ES: 38fps
SD: 11.44fps

Velocities recorded using Shooting Chrony Gamma model 10' from muzzle.


Looks like the 175gr SMK load is way too hot for my AR10. I know other AR10 guys using this same load though so YMMV. The primer may have popped out when the brass hit the ground, I didn't find it inside my gun.

Neither loads were crimped. </div></div>Falar, that's quite the rig you've got there. Since you took the risk of shooting the hot Varget 175gr load, how did it group? I have an AR10A4, stock 1/10 twist medium wt. chrome lined barrel, and my go to load has been 168 AMAX, 43.5gr H4895,Fed210m primer, oal @ 2.81", Winchester brass. This load is reliably MOA, with the occasional 3 shots in one hole. Noveske is right down the road & I have really wanted a barrel like yours for a long time. </div></div>

The "hot" 175gr load was shot over a chrono only. I did group with a 44.4gr charge and it shot right at MOA, but for a 10 shot group. I started increasing the charge because I felt the velocity wasn't there for 1000yds. Just doing 3 shot groups (I normally do those for zeroing only) it could have easily been "sub-moa" but when I do 10 shot groups they open up quite a bit (this seems to always be the case for me with 3,5, and 10 shot groups). Maybe if I can get some more trigger time I can turn in a sub-MOA 10 shot group. Noveske barrels are good stuff but right now they aren't even taking orders anymore until they catch up on backorders and I waited a few months on this one back during "normal" times. It seems like you're getting very good accuracy from your Armalite barrel, maybe the $$/accuracy gain wouldn't be there. I still have my new unfired factory barrel from this gun (1/11.25" 20" Chrome Lined Medium Contour) and am trying to do another build with it but with parts availability being what it is it'll be a long time before I can do any direct comparisons.

 

[Grump]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

IIRC, in the .30 calibers, the US Mil generated ratios of 5-shot groups generally equal 1.xx times the 3-shot, and 10-shot equals 1.xx times the 5-shot group size. Don't remember if it was done as mean radius or extreme spread, but it was reportedly very predictable and repeatable.

They also had some stuff on the 600-yard group about equals 1.xx times the MOA of the 100-yard group.

Bottom line: almost every barrel will consistently give "tighter" average 3-shot groups compared to 5- or 10-shot groups. It's a statistical thing.

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

how much slower is imr 4064 than rl 15?

 

[Grump]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

Impossible for me to say without putting in the bullet weight factor and using some test equipment.

FWIW, the ordinal-scale burn rate chart at http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html puts Reloder-15 nine spaces "slower" than 4064, and 1 space faster than H-380.

http://www.reloadammo.com/burnrate.htm says it's from the Hodgdon chart, and puts -15 eight spaces, again just 1 step faster than H-380. Varget is one step slower than 4064 on that chart, but three steps faster than 4064 on the first one linked to.

The current Hodgdon chart at http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html puts Reloder-15 three steps slower than IMR 4064, and Varget two steps slower than RE-15. H-380 is five steps slower than RE-15 according to Hodgdon.

So, they don't agree with each other regarding certain powders being faster or slower than others, though RE-15 is always slower than IMR-4064 per these three sources.

The Varget thing illustrates the reason to NOT rely on burn charts. Not only do we have no idea how far apart each step in the order is, the same powder (Varget) is faster than 4064, slower than 4064, or slower than RE-15, depending on where you look.

 

[flyboy]

Re: Loads For .308 Winchester

How temp sensitive is the IMR 4064. Local shop has a bunch of that and rarely has RE15 or Varget