338 Norma Magnum

[dcjs]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">seems like I have not made myself clear enough. The cartrige pictured above is called the <span style="font-weight: bold">7,62 UKM</span>, it is a .30 cal. round based on a shortened .338 Lapua case, and, as far as I know, has <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">nothing to to with the .338 Norma</span></span> apart from using the same shortend parent case.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fredo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Am i missing something? 3.6 OAL for both doesn't match the photo posted. </div></div>
Seems like I underestimated the power of a picture and overestimated people's inclination to read the accompanying text. I think I should add a more obvious statement that the cartrige pictured is not the .338 Norma.

 

[boottrac]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

The world has accepted and fielded the 338LM as the mythical 40Cal another variant that is within 5% ballistically to it wont get fielded. Just another cute short-mag. i think if anything you are going to see bigger VLD projectiles for the 338LM towards the original CIP recipe including potential AP Long rod.

 

[Raggs]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

RL-22 83.5 to 85.0 3.602 OAL 26.0 BBL 300gr Sierra
Fed 215M
RamShot Magnum 90.0 to 92.5 WLRM 3.602 26.0 BBL 300gr Sierra

 

[Jered Joplin]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I should have a print any day now. Our reamer showed up yesterday.
It's designers have promised great things for a while. It has benefits that some need while others don't. This cartridge was designed to be different. Better is a relative term. It depends on what it's (weapons) intented use/design is. It's a great cartridge and there are going to be some great barrel burning spin off's from it so sit back and relax........it's all speculation at this point. The speculation or "buzz" is that it's very accurate. I've heard reports from people I trust of how accurate it is. They haven't told me directly so I can't state it as fact. I'll have some new info soon.

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Take alook at this article.

338 norma mag

 

[Zak Smith]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RWSGunsmithing</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take alook at this article.

338 norma mag

</div></div>
There's no new info in that article

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Down torwards the bottom it speaks abit about it and the designs name. I admit it's not much.

 

[TRSharpshooter]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I don't know If it will be a top LR caliber but for big game hunting... it sounds like a dream ! 250grs Bullet at or near 3000 fps... a short 340 Weatherby...

I love it !!!

 

[csk]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

your are right. there is a 338 norma. major barrel maker was shooting one in Penn. last weekend. brass will be available in the fall of this year. similar to a 338lapua, apprx .25 shorter and almost straight walled case. laod is a few gr's less than than the lapua. any question send me an email.

 

[laser]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

John Hart?

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Tim North of broughton barrels

I talked with the importer for norma brass and they hope to have some on there next shipment at the end of this month.

 

[jb1000br]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Yep...Saw Tim loading them...cute little feller... (the case...not Tim

Bout time this thing is comin' out!

JB

 

[Raggs]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

They are taking orders for the brass at BlackHills Shooters Supply,Redding and Hornady are making custom dies for it;
Pacific Tool & Gauge are making the reamers,Broughton 5c and Rock 5R 1-9.3 twist supports the 300gr Sierra excellent.
BlackHills Ammo is loading Box ammo for R&D for Milatary intities in my opinion it is the most accurute and forgiving cartridge Ive ever sent down range day for day.
It is kind of the BR of the 338 world, yet its intent at heart was for a tactical chamber.

 

[Cheese]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Have None</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> They are taking orders for the brass at BlackHills Shooters Supply,Redding and Hornady are making custom dies for it;
Pacific Tool & Gauge are making the reamers,Broughton 5c and Rock 5R 1-9.3 twist supports the 300gr Sierra excellent.
BlackHills Ammo is loading Box ammo for R&D for Milatary intities in my opinion it is the most accurute and forgiving cartridge Ive ever sent down range day for day.
It is kind of the BR of the 338 world, yet its intent at heart was for a tactical chamber. </div></div>

I can absolutely confirm what Mr. None has claimed.
I have shot this cartridge in two prior versions.
Several shooters here simply are unfamilliar with the performance it has over the .338LM, that will spread soon enough.
My rifle will be converted back to .338NM from the .338LM shortly now that brass, and dies will be available.

 

[Yorman]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Well seeing as how the cat is very quickly escaping the bag.

left is .338 Lapua Mag factory loading w/ 250 Scenar
right is .338 Norma Mag with 300 SMK

Scott can't say I'll instantly convert my LM into Jimmy's cartridge but it won't be long before my Lapua dies and brass will be for sale.

 

[260shtr]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Cheese

We talked about this cartridge 04 or 05 at Arnold AFB. Guys, this isn't something someone slapped together without much thought, it has been in R&D for years. Glad to see it coming together. Give us more details as you can.

 

[gyr]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

what would be a good allround twist for this cartridge??

1/10 ??

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I'm going with 1-9.5 it will handle the 300gr sierras easily and will also do the lighter stuff as well, but I do not plan on shooting anything less than 250 in mine

 

[robash53]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Mmmmm neck that down to .30 and wonder what we've got?

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

It actually is/has been done. I hear that norma might start making brass for it sometime down the line.

 

[miketx2002]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Here at Mike's Gun Sales/Jet Suppressors we have been involved in R&D of the .338 Norma Mag with Jimmie for some time. We have built several of these rifles with suppressors as packages for testing by various interested parties. What I can tell you about the .338 Norma Mag is that it easily outperforms the .338 Lapua Mag. Accuracy, consistency and higher velocities are some of it's characteristics. Why is this cartridge better than 338 lapua? How about less powder, less recoil, less heat and less noise by virtue of a superior cartridge design. This cartridge was designed for and will actually support a .300 gr matchking bullet. Here are a few pictures of some of the R&D work we did a year ago. I had the first 3 confirmed kills with the production brass! The bear was 337 yards, the elk was 707 and my mule deer was 1245 yards. Three rounds fired total,the bull elk was knocked off his feet and pronounced Dead Right There. We are currently building these rifles in our shop. We have reamers, die sets and brass. The brass we have right now is factory stamped .338 Norma Mag. This is the best cartridge design that has come down the pipe in a long time.

Mike Brown
MGSS/Jet Suppressors
www.jetsuppressors.com
361-758-9381

 

[mauritz45]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

thanks for the pics and info mike. what action and mag assy are shown? what are the specs on your rifle? can you give us load info/chrono results? thanks-cam

 

[CoryT]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Easily outperforms? So far as I can tell, it's just another .338 magnum cartridge. OK, it might push the 300 a few fps faster than the .338LM. What will the 300 do that the 250 will not?

More accurate? How would one even go about proving that? The .338 LM shoots 1/2 MOA out past 1600m, just how much better do you expect it to get? Perhaps some BR guy will set some kind of record with it, that has little to do with field shooting. Most snipers can't hold as well as the gun can shoot, so any small increment of intrinsic accuracy is no big deal.

Less powder? Enough less that the barrel life is double? Perhaps it lasts 10% longer. I suppose that;s nice, but still what's the big deal. If the cost of a new barrel is a big concern, the magnum game is not for you. Barrels, like ammo, are expendable.

Less recoil? Last I heard, Newton was still right. If a given weight rifle moves a given weight projectile at a given velocity, X ft lbs of recoil are generated. You can mitigate the felt recoil by a heavier gun, or by a muzzle brake. If you use less powder, you get less gas, therefore the brake is less effective.

Less heat / noise? By what percentage? Even 5% less powder is not a real factor in heat, since much of the barrel heat is from bore friction. Certainly less powder gives less gas volume, so a suppressor will end up some amount quieter, but how many dB are we talking about here, 1 or 2? Who cares?

Now I have nothing against the cartridge, so far as I can see it's a fine choice on a technical basis. But, it is in no way clearly superior to any other .338 in the same pressure / velocity range. Anyone who already has a .338LM, for example, would have no reason to switch, unless they had a pile of free brass.

Now, I suppose I could be missing something, but the claims are a bit vague. Who wants to share real numbers that prove otherwise?

Cory Trapp
Gunsite Academy, Inc.

 

[cypriss32]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Mike what are Barrel jobs going for If I provide all parts?
What about locating brass and reloading dies?

 

[Raggs]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

SO now that we have an unfired opinion and had a sharp and accurate comparison 250 to 300's and just how accurate the other is, I would hope that some day all of the good people at one time or another come into contact with this cartridge and just let the cartridge speak for its self, it truly carries its own measure.

 

[miketx2002]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Hi Mauritz45,

The magazine assembly is our own manufacture which uses AI mags. It is available in long or short models. The action is a standard Remington 700LA combined with a magnum bolt our own bolt knob and side releases to build the 338 norma mag. We have found that the AI chasis is the best stock to use for these big boomers. As for load information, loaded ammo will be available soon from Black Hills. If you want to buy a rifle from us we will give you some of the basic reloading data, otherwise we will let others closer to the source release that info publicly.

cypriss32, in interest of sticking to the topic, call the shop or email us for more info on building one of these guns. Thanks

CoryT, good day to you. You don't have to believe the 338 Norma mag outperforms the 338 lapua if you don't want to? Do you have a 338 norma mag? 338 Lapua? Have you shot one? Ice Man asked for first hand information about the 338 Norma Mag, we have it and we shared what we could considering we are not in charge of releasing info on this. Hey the 30-06 got the job done in 2 World Wars, why not just use that right? If nobody cares that is. In the mean time, we will keep shooting ours and building more 338 Norma Mags. Thanks for supporting our troops at Gunsite. You guys do good work there.

Mike Brown
MGSS/Jet Suppressors
www.jetsuppressors.com
361-758-9381

 

[Zak Smith]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

The newcomer always has to prove its worth. It's completely reasonable to ask for credible proof to back up enthusiastic claims. There are many people who would like to see concrete answers to Cory Trapp's questions. Good work.

-z

 

[miketx2002]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Hi Zak,

Sure it is reasonable to ask questions like Cory is asking. Cory and others have also been making some assumptions based on no first hand information whatsoever. I wish I could give more details, but it is not in my pay grade to do so. I have given about all the info I can on the internet. In the mean time, this cartridge kicks Lapua butt all over. I will keep shooting mine.

Have a good day.

Mike Brown
MGSS/Jet Suppressors
www.jetsuppressors.com
361-758-9381

 

[CoryT]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Have None, no I've not fired the .338 Norma. I HAVE shot serveral thousand rounds of .338 LM, plus a number of .408 CT, 375/408 CT, and 416 Barret.

All I see here are CLAIMS that this new thing is markedly better, but no actual proof whatsoever. I came in on this thread after I saw it go to 8 pages, maybe there was something to this thing. Instead, all I see is 'this cartridge kicks Lapua butt'. Really? How about the .338 Extreme? The .338 Edge, the Lazzeroni Titan, etc.

No more details? We've got NO details here. I'm sure it works just fine. The bullets are a proven item, use a good barrel and chamber in a decent action and if you get a consisent velocity load at 2700fps with 300gr MK I'm sure it shoots just fine. If I had one, I'm sure I'd be happy with it.

I've got an XLR class Sept. 5-7, perhaps someone one would like to come out here and demo it one day? Any other time would be fine as well. I just finished setting up new targets from 1k to 2k meters just this morning. If it really IS better, I'd be happy to say so, but you gotta give me more than what's here.

Cory Trapp
Gunsite Academy, Inc.

 

[gyr]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

RWS thanks for the reply.

 

[King Of Norway]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

this cartridge looks simular to the 330 Dakota. how much difference is there really?

 

[Cheyenne19]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Isn't the dakota just an improved 338Lapua?

 

[hohlspitz]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum


<span style="font-weight: bold">.330 Dakota</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">.338 Lapua Magnum </span>

 

[Terry Cross]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

cheyenne, (Isn't the dakota just an improved 338Lapua?)

No. But it really doesn't matter.
The 338NM is dimensionally different than the .330 Dakota and the .338LM.

Shoulder angles, body taper, etc. isn't even close once you compare a reamer print of the .338NM to them.

TC

 

[Huckleberry]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Does anyone have a reamer print to share?

 

[Cheyenne19]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Dave Kiff at PT&G should be able to email you one.

 

[Cheese]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

My rifle chambered in .338 Norma Magnum will be in tomorrow.
I will try to post pics of the build and the target data next week sometime.
I only have 100 rounds in house.

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I finally received my brass today and will hopefully have the rifle completed this weekend

 

[Cheese]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RWSGunsmithing</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I finally received my brass today and will hopefully have the rifle completed this weekend </div></div>


All the brass from BH Shooters Supply sold out in three days.

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I'm sure glad that I ordered mine when I did and that was back in feb-mar.

 

[Huckleberry]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Forming some off of 338 Lapua brass would not be much of a thing.

 

[SSG3K]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

I had a good look at the 338 Norma Mag today and will be getting one built very soon from one of the key players in the game. Cant wait. Also getting some very cool actions in the very near future.

Rich

 

[EdO]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

 

[375rgr]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

The Norma mag has a few grains less capacity. It will fit any .338 Lapua magazine with great bullet placement in the case do to the slightly shorter case, your not limited on OAL due to short magazines like .338 Lapua. It will push a 300gr SMK at 2800fps with little or no pressure signs. It is very accurate and fun to shoot. Brass is some what limited and more than a little hard to get a hold of. If brass becomes readily available I would build one on a minute.

 

[Supersubes]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Any more info on this? Has brass become available?

 

[oubeta]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

?

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Brass is avalible but is currently sold out at black hills shooters supply [BHSS} As far as I know this is the only place to get it as they are the importer for norma.

You can order dies at hornady.

 

[Two Shoes]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Could be the cat's ass.......hope it is.
However, one word would keep me from owning one.........UNTIL they get some brass available besides NORMA.
I will stick w/ .338LM.
Thanks..................IMHO, and FWIW.

 

[Supersubes]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

TS, I'm worried abouth the same thing. I met a gun builder at the range yesterday who was testing the cartridge in a 15lb tac rifle. He was all stoked about it but was up front that he needs more time with it before he will do barrels for customers.

 

[Tom Sarver]

Re: 338 Norma Magnum

Shooters,

I'm currently designing/building a tactical rifle for a customer chambered in .30/.338 Norma mag. It is a .338 Norma mag necked down to .30. Personally I think, and this is just my opinion shooters should just skip right to the .30/.338 and shoot lighter bullets for better performance. Yes, the .338 will shoot far but not as accurate as say a SMK 240. Before anyone jumps me on that I've been doing this "TEST" for a long time. Some of the best benchrest shooters on the planet will back me up on that statement. A bullet having to capability to shoot far and hit hard is great but acccuracy is more important and well as many other varibles. Whom ever came up with the .338 Norma mag should be proud of what they have created. But in the hands of two EQUALLY skilled shooters you won't see a differance in REAL world shooting.
This past weekend we shot 2000 plus yards- a fifty of fine quality and ammo couldn't hang with the three .30/338 Lapua short mags AKA the .300 Hulk. And despite what the ballistics say about energy the .300 Hulk made a just as big dust cloud! My point bigger is not better. I shoot 240 SMK's mostly but have another load with a Berger 185 VLD. 18 MOA to get from 100 yards to 1000 and 55 moa to a MILE and less barrel wear and flatter trajectories when shooting steel plates 100 yards to 2000.
Back to the 240's. A while back someone here said I was full of BS that I could not shoot that far because of fancy ballistics charts about spin drift and so on. That's not so. We do it everyday with plenty of energy. My point is the .338 is great, the .30 is better for lots of reasons tested and proven by top shooters in benchrest. And it doesn't get anymore accurate than that. I love the .338 Lapua. My new Tactical rifle I almost went that route-even asked others opinions and second guessed myself. That's because it's a great cartridge in and configuration. It's just one more of the same in my opinion and falls short of SURGICAL PRECISION needed to take out the driver of the jeep instead of just the jeep. Why walk when you can ride. I'm currently building two .338 Lapua mag for customers after giving them pros and cons. It's personnal prefernce you want what you want. If you wan to shoot past 2000 yards the .338 may be answer, if you have enough MOA in the scope to get there.

Tom Sarver
Thunder Valley Precision

PS. one more thing about LONGRANGE....how far have you seen a .308 shooting 175 SMK at 2650 fps shoot and hit with accuracy? On of my students was hitting out to 1700 yards. And dirts was flying two-three feet in the air. A approx. 36" group for 5 shots around a 12 dia. steel disk.