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4 Minneapolis officers fired in death of black man after video shows officer pinning knee against his neck
- Thread starter Don-n-Texas
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If there was another side of the story it would be out by now. There's no way they would let the media run rampant on the story if there was another side.
Just a quick observation...
to the comment above about breathing and can’t breathe.
you’ve obviously never trained BJJ.
carry on.
to the comment above about breathing and can’t breathe.
you’ve obviously never trained BJJ.
carry on.
I didn't say another side to the story, I said the rest of the story. And there has to be some more to this. It didn't start with the guy laying on the ground handcuffed. It started someplace before that and I would like to hear about it.
Hi,
BUT NONE of that matters. That is not the way Use of Force policies work.
It doesn't matter what fuck squat happened 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes beforehand....Once he was restrained then you cannot maintain said level of force required to actually do the restraining.
Sincerely,
Theis
Even if there is another side to the story (ex: subject being combative prior ) i don’t think it would justify the officer’s actions while the individual was in custody.
His hands had already been cuffed behind his back when this was all going down. By that point, it should have been either put him in the back of the patrol car, or sit him up on the sidewalk to wait for the ambulance...
Even the most race-baiting opportunists in the media know to back off and keep their cock holsters shut when a police incident is revealed to be a textbook justified use of lethal force.
THIS incident took place in Daytona Beach, FL, a few days ago. Apparently, this Einstein stole a hunting rifle from somewhere and tried to carjack a woman. Woman gets away from him and manages to call police. Officers show up. Einstein points rifle DIRECTLY at officers even as he was being yelled at to "put it down!" more than SIX times before the officer and a sergeant fire their weapons, critically wounding the perp who is expected to survive. The video clearly shows the perp's skin color. Now I am not sure how much extreme left/BLM activity is prevalent in Florida but not a single peep came out of this... It was a classic GOOD SHOOT, as the video shows. The officers had used tremendous restraint, almost to the point of hesitation, warning the guy multiple times to put down the weapon before firing...
Daytona Beach News-Journal Online
The suspect in an attempted carjacking was shot on Monday by police when he pointed a rifle at responding officers, Daytona Beach police Chief Craig Capriwww.news-journalonline.com
Video:
Glad that one turned out alright for the police. I don't know about driving up as close as the first squad and bailing out with my handgun and not an AR against a rifle but it turned out well.
To give an example to illustrate how the use of force continuum works:
Let’s say you are a police officer just standing around (wherever, who cares). A subject walks up to you and hits you as hard as he can.
But......
As soon as he hits you he throws his hands up and stands there doing nothing.
There is no longer a threat and you don’t get to get even with him. You will obviously arrest him and may even be able to articulate taking him to the ground fairly hard. But......you can’t do anything else. No hitting, punching, etc.
Doesn’t matter what he did or how mad you are. You’ve got to eat that punch and go about your day.
Let’s say you are a police officer just standing around (wherever, who cares). A subject walks up to you and hits you as hard as he can.
But......
As soon as he hits you he throws his hands up and stands there doing nothing.
There is no longer a threat and you don’t get to get even with him. You will obviously arrest him and may even be able to articulate taking him to the ground fairly hard. But......you can’t do anything else. No hitting, punching, etc.
Doesn’t matter what he did or how mad you are. You’ve got to eat that punch and go about your day.
2aBaCa, as to your question, Can you name anyone white killed by the Police?" Yes I can, 2 in my county. Both head shots in separate incidents by the same Officer. He is no longer employed here but is still in LE in a different location. Obviously a good shot with a pistol.
Here we go again, We don't have all of the facts but what we do have is pretty damning. I will not Judge until I know all of the facts, but it does look very bad to me with what I have seen.
I have a dog in this fight as to standing up for LEOs as my oldest Son is one and he is counting his days until he can retire and GTFO. He is fed up with others he works with that don't have the training nor experience nor mentality that he has but mainly pissed off that there are all of these hiring practices that put people out on the street with a Badge and a gun that should not have been there in the first place. The Standards have been lowered to include diversification and just getting enough people to fill a Class at the Academy and passing them all. An Ass for every seat, no matter that they would have failed when he started out.
To my way of thinking, the Officer with his knee on the suspects neck and his hand in his pocket does not look right to me and the other Jackoffs standing around needed to step in and de-escalate the situation.
As I have said before on this site, It is way beyond time for ALL LE Agencies to Police their own ranks and weed out those who don't belong within them.
If they don't do that themselves, somewhere along the line sometime, somewhere, someone will weed them out for them and that won't be pretty. The persons doing the weeding will take out some really fine Officers that know what they are doing and do it right but get taken only because they wear a uniform, carry a Badge and a gun.
I am very grateful that my Son is close to getting out, And I am DAMNED glad he is not in Minneapolis.
When this goes to Court, if the Knee Officer walks free it will only fuel the fires that I fear now.
Too many times have LEOs walked when there was a preponderance of evidence that showed them to be in the wrong on fatal incidents and yet they walked free.
That can no longer happen if we are to keep a trust in LE, No more spanking their hands, put them in prison where they belong.
Here we go again, We don't have all of the facts but what we do have is pretty damning. I will not Judge until I know all of the facts, but it does look very bad to me with what I have seen.
I have a dog in this fight as to standing up for LEOs as my oldest Son is one and he is counting his days until he can retire and GTFO. He is fed up with others he works with that don't have the training nor experience nor mentality that he has but mainly pissed off that there are all of these hiring practices that put people out on the street with a Badge and a gun that should not have been there in the first place. The Standards have been lowered to include diversification and just getting enough people to fill a Class at the Academy and passing them all. An Ass for every seat, no matter that they would have failed when he started out.
To my way of thinking, the Officer with his knee on the suspects neck and his hand in his pocket does not look right to me and the other Jackoffs standing around needed to step in and de-escalate the situation.
As I have said before on this site, It is way beyond time for ALL LE Agencies to Police their own ranks and weed out those who don't belong within them.
If they don't do that themselves, somewhere along the line sometime, somewhere, someone will weed them out for them and that won't be pretty. The persons doing the weeding will take out some really fine Officers that know what they are doing and do it right but get taken only because they wear a uniform, carry a Badge and a gun.
I am very grateful that my Son is close to getting out, And I am DAMNED glad he is not in Minneapolis.
When this goes to Court, if the Knee Officer walks free it will only fuel the fires that I fear now.
Too many times have LEOs walked when there was a preponderance of evidence that showed them to be in the wrong on fatal incidents and yet they walked free.
That can no longer happen if we are to keep a trust in LE, No more spanking their hands, put them in prison where they belong.
I agree. If they felt the need to, they could’ve even thrown the leg shackles on and did a quick search of areas accessible before picking him up. No clue why he was on him that long especially with sufficient on scene. Interested to see how all this plays out.
Hmmm.
I had a motherfucker with known AIDs and Hep C spit a bloody loogie in my eye years ago.
Because I told him he couldnt scream like a damn hyena in the ED because he wanted a sandwich and we were out.
you bet your ass I wanted to whip him.
i walked away and let the others deal with him.
you accept this kinda shit happens in some jobs.
police deal with a lot. EMS, Fire, ED folks get a good bit too. so you prepare yourself daily and walk away before you do something stupid.
This was just before it was a felony to do so in CO. But he plead and went to county for 10 months. Better than nothing.
i should work. Fuckers with exploded spleens need some attention.
I had a motherfucker with known AIDs and Hep C spit a bloody loogie in my eye years ago.
Because I told him he couldnt scream like a damn hyena in the ED because he wanted a sandwich and we were out.
you bet your ass I wanted to whip him.
i walked away and let the others deal with him.
you accept this kinda shit happens in some jobs.
police deal with a lot. EMS, Fire, ED folks get a good bit too. so you prepare yourself daily and walk away before you do something stupid.
This was just before it was a felony to do so in CO. But he plead and went to county for 10 months. Better than nothing.
i should work. Fuckers with exploded spleens need some attention.
Thank god for cameras. Like turning the lights on the roaches scatter
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When this goes to Court, if the Knee Officer walks free it will only fuel the fires that I fear now.
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This right here...
Yesterday several members of the Boog Squad had showed up to the protest after dark and unfurled the Igloo colors... Some were wearing Hawaiian shirts as well. Purely symbolic, not the "militia brigade" that that one of the terrified desk jockeys holed up in the precinct house had called over the radio... Purely symbolic to show everybody that they had pissed off not just the black community with this clusterfuck...
Arrests of the officers in question, coming clean entirely with the facts, and long hard prison time may be the catalyst to restoring trust in the community again.
Unfortunately LE everywhere is suffering from a lack of manpower/qualified applicants. Much of this is due to the media taking a pretty anti-cop line within the last 10 years.
Just like every other job out there, when you can’t find enough of the right people to do the work, you just find people. That doesn’t make it right. But that’s the fact of the matter.
Also, generally speaking, when the economy is good we see a large drop in qualified applicants. Better paying jobs or entrepreneur opportunities are much better. When the economy takes a downward turn, people look to the security of government jobs and therefore the applicant pool is much better.
Just like every other job out there, when you can’t find enough of the right people to do the work, you just find people. That doesn’t make it right. But that’s the fact of the matter.
Also, generally speaking, when the economy is good we see a large drop in qualified applicants. Better paying jobs or entrepreneur opportunities are much better. When the economy takes a downward turn, people look to the security of government jobs and therefore the applicant pool is much better.
I understand this and I agree with this and the other replys that follow. I'm not trying to justify those officers actions. It looks wrong and the video backs this up.
I think you misconstrued my point and on purpose of course commie. I am not supporting the mistreatment of any and made that clear.
The point of that statement was the small perentage (13%) of the population committing over half of the crime in this country. Take out all other races out the equation and use only the black crime rate and only the black population. Those numbers are nothing to laugh at. It shows an issue. Its factual. It needs to be corrected. This is where the biases comes from. Many black folk have biases against law enforcement when the statistics do not support that biases. Just the communist media and people like you do. Of course people are individuals and should be treated as such unlike a collectivist commie such as yourself thinks. With that being said, there are biases and stereotypes that cannot be ignored and race happens to be just one example. Another biases that many have would be towards the race baiting leftist like yourself once again. If I see a race baiter, I am certain they are leftist filth. Right or wrong its human nature.
Most of the violent crimes in this country is committed in the large cities. Take them out of the equation and the crime rate drops down to nothing regardless of race. This needs to be corrected as well.
I cant track with you on this one simply because I think you are understating what drives bad LEO behavior. Agreed that finding good LEO candidates is tough. However, most people do what they are incented to do. If appointed/elected LEO leaders place a higher emphasis on situational "control" over "management" you have already lost. If you look at Academy training materials you see that interpersonal crisis management has a pretty low amount of hours allocated as compared to other aspects such as fire arms training.
If I may provide an example..... how many times do you see LEO's interact with a person and the LEO rests their hand on/near their gun? How many times do you see them posture up? How many times do you see them encircle someone. Most people are going to take these positions as a threat. Metaphorically speaking, most people will respond, at a DNA level, when a LEO acts this way. Psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, that are well versed in crisis situations, will agree that taking this sort of approach rives a fight or flight response in most people. And most departments dont train/retrain this well enough. I get the officer safety concerns but you can manage officer safety and de escalation to provide a more optimal outcome through officer behavior.
Look at the officers in this situation.....they were afraid. As you correctly point out in some of your other posts, the suspect was no longer a threat however the LEO was so afraid of losing "control" that he kept his knee on his neck. My belief is that if there had been better aptitude testing before the academy, there had been better situational management training in the academy and stronger reinforcement by his FTO, peers and management he would have not taken that course of action.
At some level, while we all are responsible for our own actions, the lack of officer preparedness lies with those that determine who to hire, the required skills of the LEO's, the academy training, the field training and managing LOE field behavior through peer/management interactions. Any one of the 3 other officers could have stepped in and they did not. This is a departmental failure. The Chief and mayor/city counsel all have culpability here. I dont see how you can fire/prosecute the 4 officers and not look a the chain of command up to and including the political players.
Lastly, I appreciate your well balance input on this subject. I will only add that if LEO's, at all levels, dont police each other this type of behavior will only escalate.
I just want to comment on this regarding MN since MPD is in question here. My son is a LEO in a suburb of MPLS. He is early in his career so I'm familiar with the current status of training and applicants. It's actually harder to get a LEO job here than most places and it pays well.
In MN, you have to have a college degree and complete the Academy training then the big departments like MPD have their own Academy type training. On top of all that schooling which takes a few years, they seem to do a decent job of background checks. Honestly officers in MN are normally vetted well and do a good job. Yes of course there are some bad ones because no system is foolproof, but MN officers are on average a step above other states in terms of education and quality of candidates. I'm basing this off not just my son's experience, but I have friends and other family that are officers as well.
I've done ridealongs with MPD out of that same precinct. It's easy to judge from a keyboard as some here are doing and you can't change minds that are already made up, but I know first hand that there are a lot of great officers on MPD and specifically 3rd precinct. I personally know officers that buy meals for people that need it, go out of their way to help those down and out. One friend does a big coat drive every year where he takes in coat donations, on every shift during the winter loads the back of the squad car with coats and passes them out to those that need them. That's right here, those are real officers and you don't see it on the news because outrage sells.
What happened here is terrible and because of this incident, the morale of the good officers is going to get trampled even more because they will be treated like shit daily. I understand where people get angry, but I just wish they would think about how this affects the good officers and contributes to the very thing they complain about. As people of the gun community who are demonized because of the bad actions of a few sick people, I would think we would apply the same respect that we want to the good officers out there. But sadly, many seem to fall for the outrage tactics and would happily lump all officers together.
Hard to say it’s one bad apple in the basket when the other apples come out and try to say the rotten one isn’t.
I agree with you and it sucks. Most of the LE departments in my area are great. I even saw a LEO step in front of a Sargent to help manage a situation with female struggling with mental health issues. There are good cops out there for sure.
With all due respect its not a matter if giving away coats, although thats nice. This is a matter of hiring the right people and managing them correctly. If Chiefs and Sheriffs dont create a culture where peers can escalate a perceived need for a fellow LEO then we will continue to have situations like this. One frightened, poorly trained officer who is in way over his head is bad. Again, a failure at all levels. But to have 3 other officers who either agree with him or are afraid to say something is either 1 in a million odds that the only 4 bad officers are there together or its a condemnation on the Chief and city counsel that hired the Chief.
Again, no dispersion's on those handing out coats. Ask yourself if all those same good cops you mention are willing to stand on principle and intervene in a situation like this. Those are good cops in my book.
My best to your friends and family and I hope they come home, safe and sound, at the end of every shift.
Interesting you brought up the LEO resting their hand on or near their gun/taser. Recently, before we reopened gyms, the weekend before the place I go to reopened, there were 2 owners cars and 2 or 3 employee cars (maybe 7 people for a 5000 sq foot building). They had the doors wide open - obviously to air out the gym and get it fresh and ready to re-open. The LEO was in front of me driving literally WHIPPED his car in at pretty high rate to the road entering the gym parking lot and into the lot - again at a rate normal folks would be ticketed for. I followed down that road (dead end) and turned around and watched. He'd parked right in front at the closest (and least easy space to get out of should a real emergency exist) or maybe the handicapped space (right beside). Regardless, by the time I parked and watched, he'd gotten out of the car, and was in the face of the lady that owns the gym....where was his right hand? On his gun. What was his posture? Super defensive.
I was firmly in the mindset he was going to arrest her. He didn't, but I'm sure he was "following orders" to go enforce coronavirus. Meanwhile in that time he was being intimidating, no telling how many cars were driving 70-75 in a 45 going down the main drag between subdivisions (a hell of a lot more dangerous than cleaning the gym for reopening for what was at the time in 4 days).
I won't go into the ludicrousness of trying to verify a gym is not "illegally reopened," but I will say that the posturing and attitude is what causes a lot of people to dislike cops and not trust them. From my observation, this posturing and attitude is becoming more and more prevalent and is downright scary. I can certainly see how the minority community would feel "cops are against us." Once we lost the "beat cop" who knew people and it became what it is today, LE lost the battle of befriending the community (building up "cred" or whatever). I truly feel for the good LEOs. Their job is made harder by this on multiple fronts.
The entire culture in general is becoming hard to manage. When I was younger, if you did something kinda fucked up, you got your ass chewed out or written up. Fuck up enough and you’re gone.
With things becoming more PC and people more soft with their feelings, as soon as you look at someone wrong, there’s either a harassment claim or a “i was never trained on this.” It’s gotten to the point that management in many places (not just LE) is taking a hands off approach due to harassment claims or lawsuits.
There was also a time when people had a *healthy* respect for police. If you got pulled over you remained calm, and said yes sir/yes ma’am like your parents taught you. Now people go around with cameras trying to manufacture conflict with police.
More and more movies romanticize criminals and vilify the police. Every gangbanger in every movie is just doing it to support he grandmother. And every cop is taking the street vendor’s profit. Without any parents around to tell their children the police aren’t the bad guys and criminals are criminals.
That generation are now grown and some are LE and most are not. Lack of parenting and the increase of “softness” has led to where we are now. Working against each other. There really are people who believe the police are out to murder them. And there are actually cops out there who think everyone is walking around with a camera trying to catch them fucking up.
With things becoming more PC and people more soft with their feelings, as soon as you look at someone wrong, there’s either a harassment claim or a “i was never trained on this.” It’s gotten to the point that management in many places (not just LE) is taking a hands off approach due to harassment claims or lawsuits.
There was also a time when people had a *healthy* respect for police. If you got pulled over you remained calm, and said yes sir/yes ma’am like your parents taught you. Now people go around with cameras trying to manufacture conflict with police.
More and more movies romanticize criminals and vilify the police. Every gangbanger in every movie is just doing it to support he grandmother. And every cop is taking the street vendor’s profit. Without any parents around to tell their children the police aren’t the bad guys and criminals are criminals.
That generation are now grown and some are LE and most are not. Lack of parenting and the increase of “softness” has led to where we are now. Working against each other. There really are people who believe the police are out to murder them. And there are actually cops out there who think everyone is walking around with a camera trying to catch them fucking up.
Almost like it's planned by the PTB...............this whole disrespect and "let's set the guy up on video." Though I don't think that was the case here.
Heck, the last time I got pulled over, I was admittedly driving 77 in a 70. On I-40. I was driving 77 because for one of the first times in my life I didn't have a car for a mile in front or back of me - on I-40!!!! Crested small bridge and there he was. I turned blinker on, braked pretty hard, and pulled over entirely off shoulder before he could actually get onto the highway. Waited with hands on steering wheel, window down, wallet in hand wondering where he was (he came to passenger side). We chatted, he asked if I knew what I was doing; I said, "No sir, but I know I was speeding sir." He said 77, I said something like "Sorry sir, my mistake." I told him I'd have to dig out the paperwork (moving stuff out of Dad's house and car was filled to rim). His response was...I'm not giving you a ticket, but need to run your license. Came back, told me to slow it down, I thanked him for settling me down and for his work in general and told him to stay safe. He turned around and said "I bet you thought your were doing 75, right?" Response was, "Yes sir." He laughed and that was that. There was mutual respect there and he was the utmost professional (Arkansas State Trooper). I'd like to know how many times though he's caught with some belligerent ass for every respectful encounter.
Really dude? That’s your takeaway?
You realize that we live each day only one agreement away from an opinion (bill) becoming a law right?
Even if homeboy was just secured after killing ten kids, there’s zero excuse. This is a straight up failure on the recruitment, selection, training, and leadership of the department. Incompetent assholes like this only further the divide and distrust between law enforcement agencies and their communities.
That's exactly what people are doing though. There are police everywhere right now overstepping their authority and arresting people for doing things that free men get to do. I know for a fact if I get pulled over right now, I will definitely be recording that officer. I don't plan on goading him/her into doing something they shouldn't by being a dick to them, but it's been too long of having to deal with asshole police, and the judge siding with them. Not all cops are bad, but because of the history of cops being assholes and getting away with everything, this is what happens. This is the only way for accountability to begin. The bad ones need to be exposed, and unfortunately no one knows who the bad ones are before they start filming. If you're a decent cop/human being, the only thing that person is going to film is you being polite and doing your job. If a cop has to put up with an asshole, that's their job. It should make no difference if they're being filmed or not.
If I’m not mistaken this is the same department that was involved in the shooting a a woman in front of her house. Seems like they need a change in leadership for sure.
They literally got a change in leadership as a result of that shooting. The mayor fired the chief to deflect blame, then the mayor lost the next election because of that incident.
But there is a lot more to that story. The mayor is the one who pushed through that cop to get hired. He was a bad cop and everyone knew it. Other officers didn't like him and knew something like that was going to happen. He was pushed through to be the first Somali cop in the 5th precinct so it was all politics and cost an innocent person her life. That guy was the poster child for bad cop but other officer's concerns were ignored due to a radical leftist mayor.
But here is the problem...just like all big cities run by democrats, the next mayor is more radical than the last and the city council is just as bad. Mpls. used to be a nice city but is now in a leftist death spiral just like Portland, Seattle, Denver, etc.
I predict a mass exodus of officers soon just like Portland last year. The good officers are tired of this crap and who can blame them.
If they only would fight against the drug dealers and pimps this hard. Or have this much interest in freedom. Sad
Couldn't be more true... It is already a well established fact that the MOST lethal threat to youths in this certain demographic group, are other youths in their own communities...
Trump's carpetbaggers aren't needed or welcome. Fuck him and his worthless fbi/doj faggots.
I don't think this is a black/white issue...….When you resist the King's Men you get a boot or knee to your throat, but it only gets highlighted by the MSM when it fits their agenda.
This about the death of someone innocent, someone that doesn't deserve to go that way, wrong timing and direction.
One of the guys I shoot with is in the 5th. He lives 50 miles from Mpls., but wanted to work somewhere that had a little more going on than the "Mayberry" he lives in. He is ready to get out of there. Moral is gone-burger. My son is in a first ring suburb of Mpls. and is finally starting to realize what I have been trying to tell him for several years. It's not going to get better in that liberal hell-hole.
Well if you want somebody railroaded really good guilty/innocent/who cares, then you send in the FBI and DOJ....
Several points 1) a college degree is buttwipe 2) you do not speak to the long-term trend of Lib cities hiring toxic lib police chiefs, and whether you see this as a factor. 3) is there a revolving-door policy on the part of the DA re: criminals. 4) are there indications the police are sick of such up to their necks with frustration, ie : a toxic work environment leading to judge mental errors 5) how many cops present, odds they were all bad or impotent ?
The one point of that video that is very disturbing is the ending.
They roll the guys body over and toss him up on a gurney. They dust off and stroll back to their vehicles like it was just another arrest. The reports say that he resisted and suffered a medical condition. That's an understatement.
It sure would be nice to see all of the written complaints about the actions of those shitbirds. Surely all those good guys raised their concerns about the fuckups? Or did they turn a blind eye because of the blue line? Ohh yeah I know, those shitbirds hand out coats and meals so the good deeds outweigh the?
What are the odds that the four precinct shitbirds ended up being at the scene of this incident?
They roll the guys body over and toss him up on a gurney. They dust off and stroll back to their vehicles like it was just another arrest. The reports say that he resisted and suffered a medical condition. That's an understatement.
It sure would be nice to see all of the written complaints about the actions of those shitbirds. Surely all those good guys raised their concerns about the fuckups? Or did they turn a blind eye because of the blue line? Ohh yeah I know, those shitbirds hand out coats and meals so the good deeds outweigh the?
What are the odds that the four precinct shitbirds ended up being at the scene of this incident?
Again. Thats two days in a row.They are fucking looting the Target...
Nothing says I'm with the guy in the right like looting...They are fucking looting the Target...
R
They are fucking looting the Target...
The replies in that twitter thread with TDS (trump derangement syndrome) are thick.
The lack of compassion for fellow man, common decency, and respect for the rule of law are seriously lacking and pathetic.
Of course it's amplified online, but makes me want to counter by doing something nice for my neighbors.
Edit: apologies for the side bar.
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