5.56 AR Only Loads

[JMcQ]

Padom, try this one next from American Reloading
MP 540 American Reloading
That is the stick powder, that the website says is for 308. But in 223, its similar to N140, and great.

Hey I was looking at your post and wanted to know what load data you were using ?

I use N135 quite a bit and this MP 540 sounds like a great bulk powder for practice ammo

 

[padom]

Hey I was looking at your post and wanted to know what load data you were using ?

I use N135 quite a bit and this MP 540 sounds like a great bulk powder for practice ammo

I have had nothing but excellent results with MP powder...I just grabbed 32lb of MP540 for $320....comes out to $160/8lb shipped to the door.....hard to beat that!

I'll post results once it arrives

 

[JMcQ]

I have had nothing but excellent results with MP powder...I just grabbed 32lb of MP540 for $320....comes out to $160/8lb shipped to the door.....hard to beat that!

I'll post results once it arrives

Please do.
That will be a hell of a deal if the results are positive.

 

[morning would]

Hey I was looking at your post and wanted to know what load data you were using ?

I use N135 quite a bit and this MP 540 sounds like a great bulk powder for practice ammo

I have also been using the MP540. Been shooting it in 223, 308 and 6 ARC. It is definitely a cheaper alternative to the craziness out there right now. I haven’t found anything ridiculously accurate yet out of my White Oak SPR. But it’s all been accurate enough for blaster ammo. I have only loaded 77gr hpbt’s in both Nosler and Sierra from 22gr to 23.2. All have shot around 1.2” With 22.3 being the best for me at a .96. I’m sure there is some accuracy to be had in it. I just haven’t done enough testing. Been concentrating on other powders first. It has been shooting about the same in 308 and 6 arc as far as group sizes. I do not have a chronograph, but buying one today. It’s been the biggest hole in my testing up till now.

 

[jLorenzo]

I have also been using the MP540. Been shooting it in 223, 308 and 6 ARC. It is definitely a cheaper alternative to the craziness out there right now. I haven’t found anything ridiculously accurate yet out of my White Oak SPR. But it’s all been accurate enough for blaster ammo. I have only loaded 77gr hpbt’s in both Nosler and Sierra from 22gr to 23.2. All have shot around 1.2” With 22.3 being the best for me at a .96. I’m sure there is some accuracy to be had in it. I just haven’t done enough testing. Been concentrating on other powders first. It has been shooting about the same in 308 and 6 arc as far as group sizes. I do not have a chronograph, but buying one today. It’s been the biggest hole in my testing up till now.

I've been struggling a bit with my white oak too, although I've only had it our a few times working on loads and I probably suck at shooting a has gun. This is the best I've done. If it'll shoot the 23.2 load consistently I suppose that would work.

 

[morning would]

Decided to try mp540 in something lighter in my AR. Really no data around, so I made up my own. Just loaded a couple of charges at 24.7 and 25.0 with a 52gr Berger bullet. Best groups I have shot with the mp540. Still not lights out, especially with only 3 rounds, but getting closer to something I might be able to work with. It’ll be nice when my chrono gets here.

 

[Alaska]

77 SMK
IMR 8208 @ 23.8 duplicates Military load
CCI 41
LC Brass

2750 FPS in 18”
Lee Factory Crimp
Great Accuracy at 23.2 area

 

[Doc68]

24.3gr Tac
LC 1x
75gr Hornady BTHP w/cannulure
CCI450 primers
2.255 inch COAL
Slight crimp
2754fps

AR-15 PSA lower and Upper
WOA 16" barrel

3/4-1 MOA

Doc

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Seating depth test completed.

.223 - CLE AR15- Bartlein - 8tw- 18" barrel

SMK 77gr.
Lapua (yes I know)
CCI 400
TAC 24.3gr.
BTO(comp# 2-22) 1.864"
OAL = 2.256"
MV = 2902 fps

.23" - 4 shot group

 

[Chasingpro]

69 gr SMK
25.1 gr varget
2.26 COL
Win #41
18” WOA
No crimp

 

[kcsmith]

To those using 77smk , is it with or without the knurl?

I know its been asked before, how are you testing them for proper crimp?

 

[max1840]

I prefer no cannelure on my bullets and secure them in the neck via neck tension.

 

[Snuby642]

I use a Lee collet type crimp on ar rounds. A separate step that is not hard to set up.

Basically you can watch the gap in the collet close from the top.

You start by turning the die down till it just touches a case and make a timing mark on die and press.
That is zero, then turn it down till you see the collet close compleatly without a round and mark that.

You can make 3/4 1/2 and 1/4 timing Mark's by eyesight.

I like a slight crimp at around 1/8 to 1/4. That's just enough you can tell it moved tha brass and smothers off that square end.

It's not what everyone wants to do but that's how I do it.

Hard to get a good picture of.

 

[kcsmith]

I prefer no cannelure on my bullets and secure them in the neck via neck tension.

That Is with a 77smk for an AR ?

 

[max1840]

That Is with a 77smk for an AR ?

Yes it is

 

[max1840]

That Is with a 77smk for an AR ?

I use a .222 mandrel which leaves my neck ID at .221 to .2215 as indicated by pin guages

 

[kcsmith]

I forgot to mention that I have LC brass that was prepped by a co a while back. I measured the prepped brass and some of the same brass that I've shot ( now twice fired ) after being run through the die, My brass takes a .222 minus pin ( snug ) , whereas the prepped brass takes a .221 minus pin with less effort. The mandrel measures .2237 .

I do have the Lee FC die and will mess around with that this weekend.

 

[Alaska]

To those using 77smk , is it with or without the knurl?

I know its been asked before, how are you testing them for proper crimp?

I use the 77 MK with crimp grove and crimp using Lee factory crimp die using same COAL as MK 262. Great LC Brass good choice.

 

[FOHA1]

I use a .222 mandrel which leaves my neck ID at .221 to .2215 as indicated by pin guages

Forster makes a cool tool for this if you don't have pin gauges. I have one for .223, 6mm and 6.5mm.

https://www.forsterproducts.com/product/neck-tension-gage-ntg-kit/

 

[semperfireloading]

Hey I was looking at your post and wanted to know what load data you were using ?

I use N135 quite a bit and this MP 540 sounds like a great bulk powder for practice ammo

There is zero load data. I made my own load data. The powder is probably in between N140 and N135 in terms of load data, ballpark. Not having load data is super easy. You just hope first shot it isn't accidentally a pistol power. LOL actually, first shot, if I dont know, I would do like 5 grains and see what happens, then I would know if it was for pistol or rifle. Once I knew it was for rifle, I go like 18 grains in 55 grain bullet and then I know a lot more. Then if that passes, I would go up 22 grains 55 grain bullet. So after 3 shots, I can probably narrow down any powder to what its "like" then use comparable load data and evaluate bases, rifle function and other things, from experience that I wont write a book about here.

 

[357Max]

MK262 type loads.
This load in my gun was 2721fps

18" Proof CF intermediate gas
77smk no crimp
2.255 oal
General Dynamics IVI 223 virgin brass - Ruag primed
H20 is 30.46 in 1 x fired / dry weight no primer is 97.1gr
This brass seems pretty good albeit on the small side for capacity. The primers suck, soft as butter. Cant even de-prime with a Harvey's, it just bends the center out.
.222 mandrel + id chamfer was only prep

Staball Match
25.1 2772 /SD 36/ .822" all @ 100y
25.4 2804 /SD 11.5/ .819" light swipe.
Will try 25.7 next & load out to 2.295

Accurate 2520 best accuracy
Same brass & bullet
25.1 2735 / SD 6.0 / .464"
25.4 2786 / SD 10.0 / .175" light swipe

TAC
25.0 2801 / SD 6.0 / .686"
25.3 2827 / SD 3.7 / .511" light swipe

Lever
25.9 2814 / SD 10.8 / .653"
26.2 2829 / SD 9.5 / .649" light swipe
Try 26.5 & see if SD's come down

77 RDF @ 2.292/1.827
Lever
25.7 2731 / SD 4.5 / .305"
26.0 2747 / SD 18.8/ .439" no swipe
Begging for more, will try 26.3 & 26.6

73 eldm @2.294
Vit N135 of note, the speeds below exceeded Gordon's prediction by 100fps with the N135
23.4 2825 / SD 23.4 / .479" This is top load for N135. light - Med swipe, but SD sucked.
23.7 2859 / SD 8.6 / .735" medium swipe
24.0 2877 / SD 8.1 / .336" To hot, N135 seems to get spicy/erratic on top end loads.
Here's 2 from that 24.0 string.

73 eldm @2.294
Lever
26.4 2857 / SD 15.1 / .804"
26.7 2876 / SD 14.7 / .307" Looks like it came out of bolt gun. Try 27.0 & 27.2

I find it interesting that across 2 powders with the 73 eldm, both shot similar size groups at a given speed. 2859 & 2857 both & .735-.804" 2877 & 2876 .336 - .307"

Looking forward to trying this 1 x brass with GM205AR primers.

 

[357Max]

Working on some short barrel loads now.
This is a first attempt. For now this shorty is wearing a PST 2-10. Once I get a few loads I'm happy with it'll get the Gen 2 Huey.

10.5" Craddock 223W 8T Carbine gas
Precision Armament EFAB brake/flash hider
Seekins adj. GB
Geissele MK 4 9.3" rail, Super Charging handle, & SSA-E trigger.
BCM thermal fir upper.

Win. White box 5.56 55gr used to zero scope & it was running 2739 Gas block was set for these.

Shot everything at 100Y bipod & rear bag.
All loads in Virgin IVI 223 brass.

73 eldm @2.294/1.838 no seating changes yet.

Staball Match
24.8 2398 / SD 19.9 / 1.752" yuck
25.1 2438 / SD 10.4 / .807" *
25.4 2454 / SD 12.8 / .863" *
25.7 2473 / SD 17.0 / 2.03"
No pressure on any of these so will push higher & see if it tightens groups back up.
Did not cycle with any of these. Needs more gas.


Vit N135
23.4 2464 / SD 15.8 / 1.743"
23.7 2497 / SD 9.3 / 1.981"
24.0 2522 / SD 15.2 / 1.807"
24.3 2551 / SD 15.6 / 1.723" Cycled with top loads only.

Hornady 75 BTHP @ 2.285/1.860

Staball Match 25.7 2450 / SD 13.2 / 1.475" did not cycle

Vit N135 24.3 2545 / SD 8.4 / 1.085"* cycled well 3:30 ejection

69 RMR @2.250/1.885
Vit N135 24.5 2564 / SD 16.8 / .923" Now I know what to do with the 1K of these on hand. cycled well 3:30

Hornady 60gr Vmax @ 2.292

TAC
27.3 2855 / SD 22.9 / 1.56" did not cycle
27.6 2881 / SD 6.5 / 1.481" Holly shit! Gordon's predicted 2621 for this load. I don't know WTF is going on here but I like it. No pressure signs on this load at all. This one was on the edge of cycling, needs a little more gas
Let me repeat before you try this one!

Lever
28.6 2663 / SD 27.8 / 1.315"
28.9 2665 / SD 12.5 / 1.861" I think this is indicating incomplete powder burn as predicted. Speeds are in line with Gordon's
Top Lever load cycled.

I will be trying TAC with the 73 eldm in the next load ladder.

 

[semperfireloading]

Working on some short barrel loads now.
This is a first attempt. For now this shorty is wearing a PST 2-10. Once I get a few loads I'm happy with it'll get the Gen 2 Huey.

10.5" Craddock 223W 8T Carbine gas
Precision Armament EFAB brake/flash hider
Seekins adj. GB
Geissele MK 4 9.3" rail, Super Charging handle, & SSA-E trigger.
BCM thermal fir upper.

Win. White box 5.56 55gr used to zero scope & it was running 2739 Gas block was set for these.

Shot everything at 100Y bipod & rear bag.
All loads in Virgin IVI 223 brass.

73 eldm @2.294/1.838 no seating changes yet.

Staball Match
24.8 2398 / SD 19.9 / 1.752" yuck
25.1 2438 / SD 10.4 / .807" *
25.4 2454 / SD 12.8 / .863" *
25.7 2473 / SD 17.0 / 2.03"
No pressure on any of these so will push higher & see if it tightens groups back up.
Did not cycle with any of these. Needs more gas.


Vit N135
23.4 2464 / SD 15.8 / 1.743"
23.7 2497 / SD 9.3 / 1.981"
24.0 2522 / SD 15.2 / 1.807"
24.3 2551 / SD 15.6 / 1.723" Cycled with top loads only.

Hornady 75 BTHP @ 2.285/1.860

Staball Match 25.7 2450 / SD 13.2 / 1.475" did not cycle

Vit N135 24.3 2545 / SD 8.4 / 1.085"* cycled well 3:30 ejection

69 RMR @2.250/1.885
Vit N135 24.5 2564 / SD 16.8 / .923" Now I know what to do with the 1K of these on hand. cycled well 3:30

Hornady 60gr Vmax @ 2.292

TAC
27.3 2855 / SD 22.9 / 1.56" did not cycle
27.6 2881 / SD 6.5 / 1.481" Holly shit! Gordon's predicted 2621 for this load. I don't know WTF is going on here but I like it. No pressure signs on this load at all. This one was on the edge of cycling, needs a little more gas
Let me repeat before you try this one!

Lever
28.6 2663 / SD 27.8 / 1.315"
28.9 2665 / SD 12.5 / 1.861" I think this is indicating incomplete powder burn as predicted. Speeds are in line with Gordon's
Top Lever load cycled.

I will be trying TAC with the 73 eldm in the next load ladder.

N135 sure is great. It works well for pretty much ANY bullet, AND weight, in 223. Top tier powder. For me, 24.5 grains of N135 2.255, with 60 grain V-MAX is very accurate load. Shot 5 bullets in 1 hole, .1 inch group at 100 once last year with that load.

 

[357Max]

N135 sure is great. It works well for pretty much ANY bullet, AND weight, in 223. Top tier powder. For me, 24.5 grains of N135 2.255, with 60 grain V-MAX is very accurate load. Shot 5 bullets in 1 hole, .1 inch group at 100 once last year with that load.

Thanks & yes I plan to try the n135 with the 60 Vmax on next outing.

I'm still scratching my head at those 60gr speeds with Tac. Doesn't seem possible. I stumbled onto some magic recipe.

 

[MK20]

Where i live I realistically have 120 degree temp swings almost every year that i actually use my gun in.

Does anyone know of a temp stable, or close to, powder that meters well and is not the unobtainable 8208?

I reload 75 gr Hornady bullets.

I am contemplating Staball match but would like to see more data on it.

 

[Chasingpro]

Where i live I realistically have 120 degree temp swings almost every year that i actually use my gun in.

Does anyone know of a temp stable, or close to, powder that meters well and is not the unobtainable 8208?

I reload 75 gr Hornady bullets.

I am contemplating Staball match but would like to see more data on it.

Varget

 

[diggler1833]

Where i live I realistically have 120 degree temp swings almost every year that i actually use my gun in.

Does anyone know of a temp stable, or close to, powder that meters well and is not the unobtainable 8208?

I reload 75 gr Hornady bullets.

I am contemplating Staball match but would like to see more data on it.

Well, the equally unobtainable H4895 would be a pretty good choice. I'm down to 2.75lbs of it myself and guarding it like a fat kid with a donut on his lunch tray right now.

Varget will give you the temp stability you desire, but the velocity most likely won't be there.

I have a hot and cold load for Re-15, just because accuracy was so good that I was willing to put in the extra effort. IMR-3031 isn't horrible, but I've never tried it with anything over the 68gr Hornady.

I guess I am hoping for some posted results of the Staball Match too before I jump on any.

 

[bobke]

AR Comp, but doesn’t flow like a ball powder. Have used with 223/Grendel/308 with 155gr bullets and 6.5CM with lighter bullets-108/123 Scenars. Pretty spotty availability, but starting to show up.

 

[MK20]

Varget

It doesnt meter well.

 

[Chasingpro]

It doesnt meter well.

Temp stable, good load info, available, and meters well. You get to pick 3 of those, but these days 4 is asking a lot.

 

[MK20]

I just bought 8 lbs of Staball Match for 5.56 and 308.

I'll let you all know how it works out.

 

[MK20]

Also,
I could get 8208 to within .1 grain on the Dillon powder throw. It is hard to beat that but it is so hard to get now.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

AR Comp, but doesn’t flow like a ball powder. Have used with 223/Grendel/308 with 155gr bullets and 6.5CM with lighter bullets-108/123 Scenars. Pretty spotty availability, but starting to show up.

Not familiar with AR comp but I saw that @driftersgear has some for sale. He's a great dude to deal with.

 

[Snuby642]

Need some experience with 69g Sierra HPBT and Ramshot Tac.

A Western Products page has it listed as :
22.9g / 2775 fps and 25.4g / 3049 fps 2.260 coal

The current Hodgdon site has it listed as:
21.9g / 2671 fps and 24.3g / 2921fps 2.260 coal

Some of my notes have been lost and not in the binder.

This project got delayed by request of the AHAES, took over the Dillon and time,
finally getting back to it.
(American Handgun Ammo Eating Society) Largely comprised of family and friends.

I realize it's old hat but I have no experience with Tac and wonder if it's like CFE 223,
ugly, -------- ugly, better, perfect, scatter, oh hell no, in 0.3g increments ?

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Need some experience with 69g Sierra HPBT and Ramshot Tac.

A Western Products page has it listed as :
22.9g / 2775 fps and 25.4g / 3049 fps 2.260 coal

The current Hodgdon site has it listed as:
21.9g / 2671 fps and 24.3g / 2921fps 2.260 coal

Some of my notes have been lost and not in the binder.

This project got delayed by request of the AHAES, took over the Dillon and time,
finally getting back to it.
(American Handgun Ammo Eating Society) Largely comprised of family and friends.

I realize it's old hat but I have no experience with Tac and wonder if it's like CFE 223,
ugly, -------- ugly, better, perfect, scatter, oh hell no, in 0.3g increments ?

I always do tac in .2gr increments . Not sure about a 69 gr. In my bolt gun I run 25.2 (a grain over max) with a 75gr ELD- MV = 2975

My AR I run 77gr smk and 24.3 gr in Lapua brass, 24.4 in Starline Brass, and 24.3 in FC (sucky brass don't recommend it) MV= 2850

I would start a few grains short of max and go up from there in .2gr increments if it were me

 

[357Max]

Follow up to post #328 short barrel loads.

10.5" Craddock 223W 8T Carbine gas
Precision Armament EFAB brake/flash hider
Seekins adj. GB
Geissele MK 4 9.3" rail, Super Charging handle, & SSA-E trigger.
BCM thermal fir upper.

Win. White box 5.56 55gr used to zero scope & it was running 2739 Gas block was set for these. Had to open it up 1/2 turn more.

Shot everything at 100Y bipod & rear bag.
All loads in Virgin IVI 223 brass.

Mainly I wanted to explore Ramshot TAC in this shorty based on the past outing.
I don't have much experience with TAC, but it's giving unexpected results in the shorty.

Today I shot 2 loads with the 73 eldm, both loaded at 2.294
First up with cold clean bore.
25.5 = 2572 / SD 21.2 / .947" Shot to the right was first. 5 shot group. This load is pretty warm, but brass looked good. Going to back down a touch to 25.4 next outing & play with seating depth.

73 eldm 25.8 = 2603 SD 15.2 first 4 shots were .663" & I pushed the 5th low opening to 1.5". This load was to hot.
I couldn't believe the speed I got with the 60 Vmax's before so I tried them again.
60 Vmax @ 2.251 5 shot groups
26.6 2762 SD 25.4 / 1.173" brass looked good. Gordon's prediction 2539
27.2 2847 SD 20.7 / 1.385" Swipes & primers getting pretty flat. Gordon's prediction 2606
OAL bumped to 2.280
27.4 2871 SD 36 / 1.278" too hot primers flat & ejector starting to imprint. Gordon's prediction 2607

Based on the above I'll set 26.8 as the ceiling and play with seating depth. They liked jumping a lot in the Valkyrie.

I had loaded an extra 5 of the 73 eldm's at 25.5 so for fun I took them to 600y steel 10" plate.
Plugged 2572 in 4 dof & dialed 5.2 mil. Went 2 for 5. Couldn't see the first 3 misses through the 10x scope. Wind is what got me. I started holding center & couldn't see misses. Moving hold to left each shot & hit last 2. Elevation was pretty spot on.

 

[Codiekfx400]

Where i live I realistically have 120 degree temp swings almost every year that i actually use my gun in.

Does anyone know of a temp stable, or close to, powder that meters well and is not the unobtainable 8208?

I reload 75 gr Hornady bullets.

I am contemplating Staball match but would like to see more data on it.

Benchmark would be worth a try.

 

[MK20]

Just tried Staball Match. I found what I was looking for.

 

[towerofpower93]

Just tried Staball Match. I found what I was looking for.

Standing by for your data/findings. Always good to have another powder measure friendly precision 5.56 powder.

 

[TicTacTex]

Standing by for your data/findings. Always good to have another powder measure friendly precision 5.56 powder.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/staball-match.7157303/post-10738474

More good info on page 2.

 

[semperfireloading]

Where i live I realistically have 120 degree temp swings almost every year that i actually use my gun in.

Does anyone know of a temp stable, or close to, powder that meters well and is not the unobtainable 8208?

I reload 75 gr Hornady bullets.

I am contemplating Staball match but would like to see more data on it.

Closest powder is probably H4895, or N135. But they are slightly faster. 8208 is in between the really good powders. Its faster than N140, but slower than N135. I strongly recommend N140 or N135 to replace it. Both, are better in my opinion. Benchmark is good, but the issue with it, is it does NOT like high charges, it shines UNDER max. Accuracy goes to crap when its pushed. However, H4895, N135 do extraordinarily well when pushed. No way Benchmark is going to do accurate anywhere near 8208 with a 75 grain bullet in velocity 2750-2800 FPS. Benchmark will do top tier on this planet, in lower velocities, maybe 2650 or so.

 

[welditforyou]

Have any of you guys loaded the RMR 69 and or 75 gr. offerings?
Some of you have made good comments in regard to Rocky Mountain Reloading.

 

[Snuby642]

My first batch with the RMR 69g
"Clones"? Loaded today.
I wrote Sierra since that's the load data I used.

We will see soon.

 

[357Max]

This was from a 10.5” AR @100y
The same load was 3117fps .7” 10 shots from my bolt gun.
Haven’t tried them with other powders yet.

 

[OkieMike]

View attachment 8080002
My first batch with the RMR 69g
"Clones"? Loaded today.
I wrote Sierra since that's the load data I used.

We will see soon.

I've got a pile of the little load cards that manufacturers include in a box of bullets... But, like you, I just use a 3x5 index card. Hard to beat.

I got tired of having to do repeat tests because I forgot what worked well... So I circle the charge that performed best, date it, staple it to the target, and throw it in a manila folder for that gun.

Getting old sucks.

Mike

 

[Snuby642]

There is some software out there that organizes all this load development but got tired of buying and maintaining software.

Made my own word document template. I just copy rename and change the info. Changes are scribbled in red ink till redone and printed. I use a printed copy of the saami spec in a sheet protector to separate calibers.

The 3x5 cards start by using the back side to document stage / cycle of brass worked .

Then the load development card in the ammo box, final working round in a free container.

Retired / fixed income so this stretches the budget.

I take pictures of the targets then toss those out.

By the way the peanut butter tub holds 120 rounds of 223 and a small desiccant pack nicely.

Kind of a way to meter out allocation.

 

[drglock]

Took my AR out today just to do a seating depth test on the new barrel and might just call it good.

Noveske upper and lower
JP hand guard
CLE Douglas 1-8 at 18.1”
Rifle length gas with Superlative block
Wylde chamber
TBAC Ultra 9 30 cal
135 rounds on the barrel

77 SMK’s
Varget 23.4grs
OAL 2.265
Lake City 1x fired mixed date
CCI 400
2601fps
SD 9.5
ES 20
5 shots at 100yds .452

I’ll probably still test it up to 24grs but this is not bad where it’s at.

 

[welditforyou]

Is it acceptable to use small rifle magnum primers to reload
.223/5.56?

 

[MK20]

Yes. Adjust your load accordingly. Normally drop 1 grain and work back up.

 

[welditforyou]

To the guys loading with Fed 205MAR primers.
I have reduced power hammer and trigger springs in all of my equipment.
Do you know or have experience with such? Or should I get the 205M?
Getting ready to "pull the trigger" on some primers. OK . . . dumb joke I know!