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50 Bmg Blow up....
- Thread starter frank320
- Start date
Rope will do the same thing and is alot cheaper then heavy duty steel chainsSo...... I can quit using chains for the D6?
Just some reality and sometimes reality sucks. When folks make blanket statements like not being impressed with engineers because they have seen some sort of poorly designed item by an engineer, well that is hardly representative of the whole of engineers. My point is that there are some less than great people in every field. That doesn't mean everybody in the field is bad.
Interesting video about NOT using SLAP rounds with muzzle brakes, particularly with those not designed for use with SLAP rounds...
Yes.
If some random asshole smashes into my car whatever happens after that is the fault of the person who asshammered my car.
As for the Ford Pinto,that was far more intense of a situation than it looked initially. Due to my working situation I'm very familiar with that particular case.
Now if you want to have the "who's at fault" conversation, the Therac-25 is a much better product liability volleyball.
The good thing about the Therac-25 is when its software package ate shit and administered "FUCK YOU!" levels of radiation to patients, it gave us excellent medical data on energy weapons inuries that we can use in 2150 to treat injured cyborgs.
Oh wow!
A youtube professional.
Thats settled then.
So that Serbu is a solid platform.
Serbu has no idea how much pressure his design will safely handle. If it does fail, it has been roundly proven to severely injure the user.
Yeah.
Its a shit design.
Prove me wrong.
I watched up to the part where he hypothesized a buildup of plastic in the muzzle brake caused the Serbu to explode. He is an idiot without a fucking clue.
if you know the car can explode when struck, and you cover it up and ignore it......yes, you are at fault for that....as you design a car knowing it is likely going to be in an accident.....car accidents are a parameter you need to take into account when building a car.
do we not hold gun companies responsible when they build guns that arent drop safe?.....or do we say "just dont drop your gun"...?
I didn’t watch the excuse video but if he mentioned that could be a potential cause...this company should have a stop order given by the ATF and require destruction testing before rifles/parts/spares are sold again.
With such limited knowledge of internal ballistics, his designs are skeptical at best and more than likely dangerous.
Depends on what you consider drop safe. If you consider drop safety as "it fell on the ground and didn't fire" then thats one conversation.
If you consider drop safety as "the handgun re-entered from orbit and its 2000degree corpse didn't fire" then thats another standard.
Ford knew about the situation with the Pinto...and then executed the industry standard court approved analysis for Cost/benefit versus the "societal value" of a persons death.
I would argue that the way business was done then was shit, and it was right to have a discussion about it. But its nice to run into intelligent folks on here who are knowledgeable enough to have a decent conversation.
In the case of the Ford, I think that honestly the government was at fault in a fairly substantial fashion.
If you consider drop safety as "the handgun re-entered from orbit and its 2000degree corpse didn't fire" then thats another standard.
Ford knew about the situation with the Pinto...and then executed the industry standard court approved analysis for Cost/benefit versus the "societal value" of a persons death.
I would argue that the way business was done then was shit, and it was right to have a discussion about it. But its nice to run into intelligent folks on here who are knowledgeable enough to have a decent conversation.
In the case of the Ford, I think that honestly the government was at fault in a fairly substantial fashion.
The funny part about the Ford Pinto B.S. is that it was the USA ones that were exploding and many dealers knew it, but couldn't say anything so some of the more decent ones imported the Canada spec ones which didn't have the problem (2 pound piece of plastic at $20 the Canadian Government made Ford add was all it took to keep you from dying in a crash).
Ford was greedy enough to let people die rather than spend the extra $20 per car to keep it from happening.
Well that kick started all the government regulation in a big way, so how'd being cheap greedy bastards work out for them?
Ford was greedy enough to let people die rather than spend the extra $20 per car to keep it from happening.
Well that kick started all the government regulation in a big way, so how'd being cheap greedy bastards work out for them?
$20 on a $2000 car isn’t nothing.
Not when you do it 450 times because harnesses are safer than regular belts, and higher grade steel, and special tires, and advanced fire proof polymers, and a titanium antenna aerial doesn’t accidentally whip a bystander in an accident and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and.
And if the Pinto had just had a $2500 NASCAR roll cage someone would have lived. 1 person extra. And how can we put a price on that? That person is dead because Ford didn’t increase the cost of their car by $2500 to save their lives.
How. Dare. They.
Ford used the decision making process the government told them in no uncertain terms that they should use, and that process led to this outcome. An outcome that is very similar to our current Police brutality situation.
The newspapers smelled blood, and they fell on that shit like grandma and 3 flights of stairs.
Cars kill people because of how they are used - it was only VERY recently that the first automobile was marketed in a large way for 1 entire year without a fatality during that time.
So as a manufacturer, when you market a car you are asking what is acceptable loss and for what reasons, not “how do we make a $700 million/ea minivan that’s fatality proof.”.
And when someone sees one of the 180 deaths that were expected from fire in the Pinto, because it IS part of the equation for marketing a car, you sure as hell don’t take out a full page ad in the New York Times describing the plight of burning to death in a car.
THAT SAID - the process the government had given to Ford and required that they follow in this case sucked.
It led to unnecessary deaths.
I also would have preferred the story of the Pinto to be one of the safest cars ever made and the engineers were sure pushing for it. This push probably led to as many problems as it solved, as I feel that some of the engineers would have made different choices had they known that the proposed polymer fuel tank liner and the airbags were cancelled.
yeah...but i bet if you went to ford and asked if they could go back in time and spend that $20.....theyd do it in a heart beat....hell, theyd probably spend $40 just to be safe.
.....and this is the other aspect of "defensive engineering"...the public perception...this is the sword of Damocles that we all sit under....we can sit and enjoy the spoils, but its only a matter of time before that sword drops and the media focuses their spotlight on us.
like i said, even if the courts found Ford not responsible at all...the PR hit they took was immense....fuck, the fact that we are still talking about it 40 yrs later is proof of that.....and im sure Ford would happily fork over that cash now to make it all go away.
Well have a Barrett M99 and it was common knowledge at that time (22 years ago...) to not use sabot rounds with an arrow head style brake as the sabot could come apart in the brake and the projectile not exit square to the bore.
Not 1:1 what happened on this Serbu, but issues with these rounds are not exactly new and not 100% pressure related.
Does EVERYONE have to make a 10 minute+ long video about this? I think it's been covered... We get it, shit ammo went kaboom in a rifle that you REALLY don't want to go kaboom.
If that’s what you take from all of this you might need a few more videos.
as several on here have said and discussed, there has been no 3rd party testing done on the original design or the rifle which exploded. and if there has been it has not been published in defense.
so any conclusion other than don’t shoot your Serbu until further notice cannot be correct.
we don’t know if it was:
Ammo
Rifle
User
All 3
Or none of the above
But what we do know is that a few threads on a cap is not as strong as 2-3 bolt lugs 1/2” thick like a AR-50
so in all fairness, 3/4" sch 80 black pipe has a burst pressure rating of 17,600 psi
according to SAAMI, max working pressure on a 12G 3" shell is 11,500 psi.
and considering true chamber pressure on the black pipe shotgun will be less than that because there is no restriction, nor am i guessing are you shooting anything other than clay loads......
frankly ide trust the Home Depot Home Defender long before i trust a RN 50.......hell, ive not heard any stories about them blowing up, which means they definitely have a safety record that surpasses the RN50
Like the story bout the guy in Florida that went to a "gun buy back" with maybe $20 (pre crazy wood prices) of black pipe and 2x4 fashioned into a two shotguns and was provided $400 in certficates.
It was demonstrated they would work so he was given the money and "no questions asked" protected him from the manufacturing destructive devices issue.
Sadly window of opportunity to do same has passed because 2x4 is now $250/foot.
The King isn't wrong here. Everyday manufacturers and engineers "execute the industry standard court approved analysis for Cost/benefit versus the "societal value" of a persons death". We may yet see that with firearms. What is the cost of designing a firearm that cannot be used if stolen? One that can be "turned off"? These things are possible and may very well be forced upon us "to save one life" in our litigatous society.
If these two guys work this out with no lawyer involvement and they come to a conclusion that provides useful information than....my hats off to both of them.....certainly not the present norm in this country.
Man I come here thinking this place populated by a bunch of goofy enthusiasts with too much surplus cash to spend on stupid shit and I find peeps with big brains instead......
I fucked up shooting a 1903.
Forgot to remove my sweet, antique PJ Ohare muzzle protector before blasting a round.
The PJ Ohare MP is a spring steel stamping that lightly grasps the front sight covering the muzzle.
Item on right in this image...
I was using a scoped rifle so I wouldnt see it sighting in.
No catastrophic failure or damage to the rifle but it did cause gas to blow back and it was the indication something went wrong and I was almost immediately thinking "You fucking idiot!"
The '03 is designed with holes in the bolt and receiver to deflect gas 90 degrees. Due to oft discussed failures in that community additional gas relief was added. As part of the original design the cocking knob is scalloped to deflect gas/debris up/out/down away from the shooters eye.
Point is if the slip fit muzzle protector could cause gas pressure issues detectable by the shooter (me) why wouldnt a bead of "bonded" plastic to a muzzle device? Seems plausible especially if there are warnings prohibiting use of SLAP with typical muzzle devices.
My apologies to the '03 world by destroying a getting rarer by the minute awesome 03 accessory.
Makes me think about the ignition switches in I think it was GM cars.
Sure they knew there were going to be a few failures causing the car to cut out during operation but the pennies per unit cost of a better switch or replacement compared to the potential loss of life wasnt worth it to them.
Think i remember a teenage girl was a victim of this cost analysis.
Wonder if it was worth a couple cents to her/her survivors.
Joe Biden says "This is offensive and for the record it was one flight of stairs falling 3 times"
I know more than a few that would buy it....just wouldn't in public or until after dark. Ramadan is nothing more than a tradition to most. If there is a foodie event they wish to attend, they just add a day to Ramadan.
Had a Saudi officer tell me I needed to get laid to relieve stress. Told him I was married. He said "So am I, but with burkas, no one knows who is coming and going at my house."
Look many other "religious" types they talk the talk...
I looked in my box of Misc parts to see if I had one for you... no dice. But I did find a cool Vickers one that I didn't know I had! So there's that!
Sorry, I'd have sent it to you gladly if I had one. But there's this.
Springfield 1903 Front Sight Cover Hood- National Match- Model 1903 -15541 | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Springfield 1903 Front Sight Cover Hood- National Match- Model 1903 -15541 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
Could have been far worse... $99 is not bad these days! ;-)
Bummer my friend!
Sirhr
Hi,
I am actually pretty well versed in MENA things, lol.... I was assigned to MBS when he was Minister of Defense and still attend the graduation ceremonies every quarter in Huntsville Alabama of the Saudi Arabian National Guard (The private military of MBS).
Sincerely,
Theis
How many people are acceptable to die in the quest for higher fleet energy efficiency?
So the govt mandates the average for a manufacturers line of cars must meet X mileage efficiency.
In order to do so the manufacturer has to play with the design of their car lineup to meet that goal.
Volkswagon took the software route to get there.
Others have to fudge build features to get there.
They have to balance material costs, vehicle power and physics to try and get there.
Kind of wish govt would take itself out of the equation.
I would like to see the market decide what is required.
Govt standards are taking all the "design" out of whats available. every car will soon resemble the same aerodynamic shape with the max amount of plastic covering a roll cage with the smallest motor.
Give me back shaped steel and a design features based purely on the aesthetic...
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I looked in my box of Misc parts to see if I had one for you... no dice. But I did find a cool Vickers one that I didn't know I had! So there's that!
Sorry, I'd have sent it to you gladly if I had one. But there's this.
Springfield 1903 Front Sight Cover Hood- National Match- Model 1903 -15541 | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Springfield 1903 Front Sight Cover Hood- National Match- Model 1903 -15541 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!www.ebay.com
Could have been far worse... $99 is not bad these days! ;-)
Bummer my friend!
Sirhr
I have two more and the fuck up one rests on my bench as a reminder not to be a fuck up.
On the bright side I report my aim was true as the hole at the front was dead center, it travelled about 30 yards down range and landed in the target road, had it landed in grass I doubt I would have found it.
Think I paid $125 for that one.
Pretty steep for what it is. AK receivers use more manufacturing effort and probably sell for less in the Kyhber Pass.
These National Match ones seem to be rarer than the more complex designed round style that come knickle plated and actually had moving parts....just great accessories for 03 buffs.
Thank you for thinking of my loss.
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Um...so...is this proving me wrong? I'm confused.
A 4000fps+ projectile, exiting unsquare to the bore, is going to punch a hole, without spiking pressure at the chamber.
Sabots leaving the angled brake, could send shards of 4000fps+ plastic flying back at shooter, that is the major issue.
Is it possible, that SLAP rounds are leaving plastic fouling, that builds up, and causes pressure to spike?
Since everyone on the internet is a professional, I'm gonna go ahead and exercise my professional status.
Plastic fouling caused the pressure to spike and that is why the gun blew up.
Oh wait....um...nope.
The gun design is shit. Its built like a souped up zip gun.
Thats my final answer.
One undeniable fact is unlike many designs there’s basically no gas venting so in case of a case popping if it can’t handle the pressure it gonna get exciting instead of blowing the case being able to vent the gasses and reduce president build up.
No one argues your end point....just curious how they got to the point of reaching the failure point.
I didn't need to see one blow up to know to never put my face behind a gun like that.
The thing is, he fired an armor piercing incendiary tracer round just prior to the last SLAP round. That should have cleared out any speculated plastic fouling or obstruction in the muzzle brake. The whole incident is up in the air until the rifle and cartridge casing are examined by third party professionals.
I don't think there will be any 3rd party professionals involved, not unless there is a lawsuit.
Hi,
The idea that the brake was fouled and that caused the failure is basically RETARDED!!!
1. Brakes have these things called ports; in which the pressure buildup bleeds (no pun intended) out of them and would not reach back to the "chamber".
2. SLAP stands for (Saboted LIGHT ARMOR Penetrator) but yet could not penetrate some sabot fouling in the brake....
Sincerely,
Theis
The idea that the brake was fouled and that caused the failure is basically RETARDED!!!
1. Brakes have these things called ports; in which the pressure buildup bleeds (no pun intended) out of them and would not reach back to the "chamber".
2. SLAP stands for (Saboted LIGHT ARMOR Penetrator) but yet could not penetrate some sabot fouling in the brake....
Sincerely,
Theis
Plastic fouling. I was joking, but serious.
Hell, anyone's guess I s as good as another.
No...let me be clear.
I was suggesting plastic fouling in the bore.
Flimsy, at best.
I agree with Theis. Even if you plug the brake, its not gonna do the shit you saw.
Honestly.....
I think the damn thing was fatigued and turned loose.
If I could reference the saying of a good friend, "It opened up like a tuna can"
I was suggesting plastic fouling in the bore.
Flimsy, at best.
I agree with Theis. Even if you plug the brake, its not gonna do the shit you saw.
Honestly.....
I think the damn thing was fatigued and turned loose.
If I could reference the saying of a good friend, "It opened up like a tuna can"
It blew up in the chamber. He stated that barrel was sent to him by Serbu also. There was no visible damage down the barrel.
The round detonated and the design of the rifle took care of everything else
Doc
The round detonated and the design of the rifle took care of everything else
Doc
Hi,
This guy might be his own worse enemy, lol....
"Need youtube to give me my money".......
This guys legal team has to be just shaking their heads.
Sincerely,
Theis
This guy might be his own worse enemy, lol....
"Need youtube to give me my money".......
This guys legal team has to be just shaking their heads.
Sincerely,
Theis
Nope. typical extraction. a little bit more thump but the first 30-06 round always feels thumpy. Forgot to check brass for primer blow through or other signs of pressure.
I did get gas though
I am an idiot.........no glasses felt it in my eye and smelled it.
Loaded another round and carried on.
At least he's not wasting welding rods , a tack here and there is more then enough weld on a 50 BMG.
But it wasn’t from the case. It sealed the chamber and worked as designed. What you felt was concussion and gas that bounced off your muzzle cap while it blew off the muzzle.
If KB had plugged the muzzle brake with an obstruction the worst that would have happened is the bullet would have ripped it off the muzzle, not blow the breech.
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