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Of more importance to the hunter is a rifle's handling, fit and shooting comfort. These factors inspire confidence and contribute to good marksmanship. We all tend to practice more with guns we enjoy shooting and avoid those that bruise or jolt us. Harsh recoil and anticipation of that recoil can destroy accuracy. For these reasons, moderate recoiling rifles with good handling characteristics, crisp triggers and ergonomic controls tend to get the most game. Within reason, the cartridge used is just a footnote in most deer hunting. Place an appropriate bullet in the right place and it is venison for dinner. If you fail to accomplish that, the rest doesn't matter. Fight a clumsy gun, heavy trigger, or a rifle that beats you to death with every shot and it isn't hard to figure out how these factors can destroy confidence, enjoyment and practical accuracy. One hundred percent game recovery goes out the window at the same time.
My buddy James and his son Jakob have killed more Polar Bears with a .243 than you will ever kill deer.
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I had a couple kids {cousins} from Barrow AK at one place I worked. They killed polar bears and caribou with an Ar-15, 223. I feel like these conversations loose sight of the fact people used to kill mastodons with spears.My buddy James and his son Jakob have killed more Polar Bears with a .243 than you will ever kill deer.
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Most older folks are familiar with Jack O'Connor and the .270 Winchester.How did hunters ever survive prior to the 6.5 CM? SMH, look at the rifles that our grandfather's carried in the woods. There were alot of the old trusty 30-06's, 30-30's and such.
The 6 Remington was touted as a varmint rifle cartridge and the 243 was a deer hunting round.
I killed alot of my Elk and Mule Deer with my old 30-06 that I carried as a kid.
The debate will continue for years to come....
Dont know if it's the correct answer but the rifle he is holding in the top photo is a custom 1903 Springfield chambered in 7x57mm.Most older folks are familiar with Jack O'Connor and the .270 Winchester.
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Guess what his go-to hunting rifle cartridge was, vs his gun magazine article cartridge?
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I think you’re hitting on something that doesn’t get touched too often in these discussions, magnum class velocity matters. Shoot enough animals with a standard class cartridge and a magnum class cartridge, and the difference is noticeable. While I don’t consider a 6.5 Creed marginal, I prefer a 6 on the same case, and neither compares very well to a 6.5 SAUM.I shot several deer with a 6.5 Creed, they kill deer but they do it so well I sold it. Not marginal hits, shot a big coon that took one thru the boiler and tried to crawl off. I didn't lack for blood shooting Barnes but everything ran which is not normal shooting fast expanding copper bullets. My personal feeling has nothing to do with SD or BC but velocity. I just don't think it has enough, although a bud of mine at a recent gun show was told by an "expert" that the creed shoots flat to 1K. No need to hold over. He's still laughing. I turned the Creed into a Gap and the world changed for the better. Same bullet but 600 fps faster is a big deal.
We've killed way over 50 deer with a 223, and I know of 22 Caribou that were killed with a 223 with 55 gr soft points on a "bow" hunt that resulted in open tundra with no trees. Of the deer, 2 were 2 shot kills, the caribou only 1. Both of the 2 shot kills were gut shots that humped them in place. The big difference is very simply speed, velocity kills. If you ever saw what a 110 gr copper bullet at 3500 fps does after impact it wouldn't even be a debate. Tissue damage alone doesn't transfer to DRT. High velocity literally shuts down the nerves. This isn't observation from a dozen critters being shot but closer to 1000. I have been in on cull shoots where we shot everything from 223's to 300 mags. Everything will kill a deer, but velocity trumps everything else. The Creed was brought out as a target round initially and morphed into a hunting round. If I were to hunt with 1 again, it wouldn't be with a bullet weight of over 123 grs.I’ve had decent sized mule deer “bang, flop” with a .223 at 300+ yards. To say a 6.5 creed is marginal is just irrational.
The flipside of that is....what if you’re shooting too fast at magnum velocities within common hunting distances, exceeding the capability of many bullets to hold together? This was one of the main problems with the .270 Winchester and then Roy Weatherby, who took the .270’s magnum velocities and pushed heavier bullets even faster from the .300 H&H parent case.I think you’re hitting on something that doesn’t get touched too often in these discussions, magnum class velocity matters. Shoot enough animals with a standard class cartridge and a magnum class cartridge, and the difference is noticeable. While I don’t consider a 6.5 Creed marginal, I prefer a 6 on the same case, and neither compares very well to a 6.5 SAUM.
The Nosler® Partition® bullet is the cornerstone upon which the entire company was founded on in 1948 and built upon since. It is the bullet that brought hunters from the Dark Ages of thin-jacketed, cup and draw style bullets and into the modern age with a complex jacket design that makes use of two lead cores, separated by a monolithic partition.
I usually take my 300wm on prairie dog shoots. A 200g bullet at 3000fps will make an acrobat out of the clumsiest fat bellied varmint.Well for you men, who really want True Knockdown Power and are just not satisfied with your typical squirrel rifles (300 win Mag) power to take down chipmunks or your typical deer rifle (that would be say a .416 Remington Mag) may I suggest a Holland and Holland Double Rifle in 700 H&H. Now it might be just a touch pricy, being in the class of “If you have to ask, You can’t afford it.” May I suggest a slightly used model in the apologetically weak 3” 500 Magnum for only $175,000.00. Ready for immediate delivery, (for sale on another site, NDIH)
Two year wait on the 700
View attachment 7828817
Pictured is the 700 H&H Double Rifle
This post is about as ridiculous as some of the other meanderings in this thread.
No, when the ruskies saw that the Ukrainians were about to shoot at them with a 6.5 Creedmoor, the got so scared, the scuttled the ship to avoid the certain and complete destruction.I think I saw a report that the Ukrainians used a 6.5 creedmoor to sink the Moskva!