Hunting & Fishing 6.5 creed labeled “marginal”

[rookie7]

This article https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/6-...Zkyr7M20MJHB0QffED5kHdwpaSdFT3tvI8Pl0bxORyp6g

has me thinking “say what?”

In any scientific experiment the larger the sample size the potential exists for a higher margin of error.

Maybe that is what they are seeing.

The 6mm’s have been labeled marginal on deer for decades. Now the 6.5 creedmoor as well?

I’m thinking the Hide community of hunters may have a large percentage of hunters using 6 and 6.5 calibers for hunting, so how do your experiences compare?

Southern deer on average just aren’t that big. Granted my longest shot to date is only 275 yards on a doe.

I have read more than once how folks just love the 25/06 - “shoots like a laser and hits like the hammer of Thor.” - and yet it sits right there with the other 2.

Happy Hunting.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I’d bet dollars to donuts that the reason guys aren’t recovering their animals is because they suck at shooting.

They hear about how big and bad ass the 6.5 Creedmoor round is, and think just because they bought one that it automatically makes them a good shooter.

So they buy one, top it with a $50 Walmart scope, somehow manage to put three rounds on a pie plate at 100 yards, take to the woods and injure an animal.

 

[Steel head]

I’d bet dollars to donuts that the reason guys aren’t recovering their animals is because they suck at shooting.

They hear about how big and bad ass the 6.5 Creedmoor round is, and think just because they bought one that it automatically makes them a good shooter.

So they buy one, top it with a $50 Walmart scope, somehow manage to put three rounds on a pie plate at 100 yards, take to the woods and injure an animal.

 

[hafejd30]

We shoot a decent amount of deer each year on crop permits. Guns used are 6.5 CM, 260, 308, 300 WM, 338 LM

I will say 6.5 CM vs 308 the 308 is more forgiving. I’ve seen more deer shot with the 6.5 that left minimal blood trails compared to the 308. This isn’t a biased opinion just my observations

Seems to get more “pin hole in pin hole out” type shots. Front shoulder and behind front shoulder shots

That said it kills the deer. Just less blood to track more often compared to the bigger calibers

6.5 CM 143 ELDX

 

[SonoranPrecision]

The blood trail thing is also pretty subjective. This year I shot a ~200lbs mule deer at 370 yards (140 hybrid targets). I shot it twice, both shots left racket ball sized exits, and more than enough blood. Not that there was much tracking necessary at that point, as he stumbled for about 15 yards and laid down.

 

[fdkay]

We shoot a decent amount of deer each year on crop permits. Guns used are 6.5 CM, 260, 308, 300 WM, 338 LM

I will say 6.5 CM vs 308 the 308 is more forgiving. I’ve seen more deer shot with the 6.5 that left minimal blood trails compared to the 308. This isn’t a biased opinion just my observations

Seems to get more “pin hole in pin hole out” type shots. Front shoulder and behind front shoulder shots

That said it kills the deer. Just less blood to track more often compared to the bigger calibers

6.5 CM 143 ELDX

If folks would read the linked article, what it says is exactly what you have seen. They specifically talk about good kill shots and very little to no blood trail.
The 6.5, especially the 140 class and up, have very high sectional density for bullet weight.
They penetrate deeply and quickly.
A co-worker recently purchased a 6.5 CM after years of hunting with a .300 Savage, he was very disappointed in performance. we spoke about the load he was using (sourcing ammo, of course, was difficult).
He used the Hornady SST load, which was breaking up, basically on impact. He had been able to get a box of Winchester soft points, which performed much better.

 

[hafejd30]

If folks would read the linked article, what it says is exactly what you have seen. They specifically talk about good kill shots and very little to no blood trail.
The 6.5, especially the 140 class and up, have very high sectional density for bullet weight.
They penetrate deeply and quickly.
A co-worker recently purchased a 6.5 CM after years of hunting with a .300 Savage, he was very disappointed in performance. we spoke about the load he was using (sourcing ammo, of course, was difficult).
He used the Hornady SST load, which was breaking up, basically on impact. He had been able to get a box of Winchester soft points, which performed much better.

I will say it’s been mixed. If the bullet connects with a rib or shoulder bone it’s excellent. If not it just doesn’t expand enough.

I’ve shot deer past 1100 yards with my 260 and although it got the job done it just doesn’t pack the punch of the 30 cals

I really want to like the 6.5. I spent a decent amount of time working on a 6.5 CM for one of our shooters. Reloading and what not. I’m currently waiting on a 6.5 CM barrel for my AXMC and plan to target shoot the shit out of that

But for taking game the 300 PRC barrel will go to work

Again it’s not that 6.5 CM doesn’t kill. It does. There’s just more effective cartridges out there

 

[BoilerUP]

Paging Pat Sinclair…

Fudds and their Aught Sixes…

At least that article discussed proper shot placement and bullet selection.

 

[fdkay]

Paging Pat Sinclair…

Fudds and their Aught Sixes…

At least that article discussed proper shot placement and bullet selection.

Did you know that the '06 is so powerful, it doesn't even have to hit you. If it passes close enough, the energy will tear your arm right off.

 

[rlsmith1]

Outdoor Life has been written from New York for years (unless something has changed). I’d bet they are taking $ to promote the 6.8 Western of some other short action magnum

 

[blisters]

Over the past 50 years or so, in Scandinavia, most moose have been shot using 6.5 mm bullets out of the 6.5x55 - which is basically identical to the Creedmoor in performance. Any moose hunter worth his (or her) salt will tell you that shot placement trumps caliber every time.

If you want deep penetration and pass-through, opt for modern monolithic copper(ish) bullets. If you want deep peneteration but use lead bullets, go with traditional heavy-for-caliber options such as the Woodleigh RNSN/PPSN Lapua Mega, Norma Oryx, Hornady Interlock, all available in 156/160 grain options.

If you want long range expansion, use Hornady ELD-X or similar bullets, but if using the same bullets on a short range shot you'll end up with a lot of lead infused meat.

 

[Campguy308]

I have been using 6.5 creed for hunting texas deer and hogs for the last 3 seasons, previously shot 308.

I have not noticed any difference in the end results. Shoot animal in the vitals, it produces blood on the ground, runs maybe 50 yards max and drops dead. Our deer here are small and easy to kill.

Bullet selection and shooter shot placement are the most important factors. I can hear the fudd pie plate shooters already..."they said in one them magazines that tha 6.5 creedmoore aint no good, not enough power. You need to use at least a ought six"

Also, I question the overall motive of this article.

 

[HousePlant]

Maybe don't shoot your deer at 200 yards with store brand Herters Cabela's ammo, then?

 

[308pirate]

We shoot a decent amount of deer each year on crop permits. Guns used are 6.5 CM, 260, 308, 300 WM, 338 LM

I will say 6.5 CM vs 308 the 308 is more forgiving. I’ve seen more deer shot with the 6.5 that left minimal blood trails compared to the 308. This isn’t a biased opinion just my observations

Seems to get more “pin hole in pin hole out” type shots. Front shoulder and behind front shoulder shots

That said it kills the deer. Just less blood to track more often compared to the bigger calibers

6.5 CM 143 ELDX

Bullet choice is extremely important.

I wonder how many of those wounded deer were shot with 6.5 mm match bullets that don't do shit unless shot placement is perfect.......

 

[308pirate]

Outdoor Life has been written from New York for years

 

[Campguy308]

I wonder what outdoor life thinks of the 270 winchester and 25-06?

 

[rlsmith1]

Someone needs an award for that one

 

[wpeach1912]

Sounds like the problems they were having were with bullets designed for longer range hunting. If you’re going to hunt the woods, TTSX, GMX, or other harder bonded bullets would make more sense if you need a blood trail. I’ve killed a couple deer with ELD-Xs out of my 6.5. 340 high shoulder shot which dropped it and a 250 yard lung shot which killed it in 50 yards. Both went all the way through

 

[SFree]

Only people that can’t kill a deer with 6/6.5 cartridges are gun writers…

 

[Supersubes]

Over the past 50 years or so, in Scandinavia, most moose have been shot using 6.5 mm bullets out of the 6.5x55 - which is basically identical to the Creedmoor in performance. Any moose hunter worth his (or her) salt will tell you that shot placement trumps caliber every time.

If you want deep penetration and pass-through, opt for modern monolithic copper(ish) bullets. If you want deep peneteration but use lead bullets, go with traditional heavy-for-caliber options such as the Woodleigh RNSN/PPSN Lapua Mega, Norma Oryx, Hornady Interlock, all available in 156/160 grain options.

If you want long range expansion, use Hornady ELD-X or similar bullets, but if using the same bullets on a short range shot you'll end up with a lot of lead infused meat.

50 years ago the x55 was quite salty. It had its 130th birthday this year.

 

[jbuck88]

I read the article and can't really disagree with it. That said my son's first hunting rifle was a 6.5cm, my deer rifle is a 6.5cm and my wife uses my other 6.5cm to hunt deer with. I know there are better rounds, but shot placement is key. In my experience until you get a ways out I haven't really seen a pass thru. As far as deer sized game it kills just fine though.

 

[Holliday]

I’d bet dollars to donuts that the reason guys aren’t recovering their animals is because they suck at shooting.

They hear about how big and bad ass the 6.5 Creedmoor round is, and think just because they bought one that it automatically makes them a good shooter.

So they buy one, top it with a $50 Walmart scope, somehow manage to put three rounds on a pie plate at 100 yards, take to the woods and injure an animal.

Nailed it! I often say that the 6.5 CM is probably one of the most overrated cartridges out there. Not because of the cartridge. Because of the people buying it.

 

[rookie7]

4 seasons now with a 6.5 Grendel and several animals dead between myself and my daughter. 123 SST and 123 ELDM are working well for us.

She shot a 7pt right before dark yesterday - first deer for us with a 6.5 creed. He ran maybe 40 yards. She destroyed the heart. 123 ELDM traveling 2950 did the trick.

We have gotten pass thru exits on all animals except a big hog I shot a few years back. That was with Sierra 120 pro hunter 6.5 Grendel load.

I can’t tell the difference in damage between the SST and the ELDM.

Blood trails are all about exit wounds and organs hit. Learned this from many years bowhunting.

The lower the exit wound the better.

Plus, a deer may not start to bleed externally until it has ran about 15 to 20 yards.

Lots of factors go into play with blood trails.

I don’t like recoil, and I like muzzle blast even less. I’ll keep hunting with my 6.5 and 6mm’s.

 

[blisters]

50 years ago the x55 was quite salty. It had its 130th birthday this year.

Very true. However, it wasn’t until after WWII any significant numbers of 6.5 rifles started to show up in the hands of civilians, with the Husqvarna 640 (and later the 1600/1640) rifles starting production. Surplus Mauser rifles were also, for obvious reasons, a post WWII thing (although the number of military defense volunteers’ rifles involved in moose hunting prior to this could probably be considerable ).

 

[Campguy308]

This sow didnt like my 6.5 creed either. Said the 130 VLD sucked ass. She's not the only one.

 

[Gtscotty]

I'm not sure what bullets they are shooting where they aren't getting good exits on deer. The only 140gr Accubond and 127gr LRXs I've put into elk all exited. I manage to catch two 180gr ABs from a .30-06 on similar shots, I feel like I have to go up in weight on bonded .308 bullets from there to equal the penetration of good 140gr 6.5, although the wounding of the 180s was probably a little wider. I can't say I've noticed much difference on deer and antelope between 6.5, .270, .308, .30-06.... maybe if you're depredation shooting and knocking over a hundred a year with the same bullets you might build up the sample size to notice subtle differences.

An alarming majority of hunters just cannot shoot worth a damn, especially past 75 yds, and off a bench, and aren't interested in spending any time or money to get better, at least that's been my experience. Everytime I read/hear how *insert cartridge* doesn't kill well, or tends to wound deer or whatever, that's always in the back of my mind as the most likely real problem.

 

[jbuck88]

I can say with a fact the only exits I've had with the 143ELDx have been shots over 300yds. Out of a 15-20 deer I've shot or been next to as someone else who shot it with the 6.5cm. The shortest shot was probably barely over 10yds. Besides CNS shots only had 1 DRT. The rest died within 20yds of being hit.

It's a great cartridge for hunting, but as the article states I can see their point of not always a huge blood trail.

I also 100% the 6.5cm has been hyped into something that's It's not. As well as in WA the 243 is the minimum so a small 264 could be considered marginal.

 

[Scwalker83]

A bad shot with a hollow point/expanding/soft point may be slightly less bad than a bad shot with a bullet that is a FMJ/penciling through whatever but it's still a bad shot. On a big animal you'll likely have your work cut out for you running it down. Never mind the un-needed suffering inflicted upon the animal.

Bulleting penciling through and losing an animal because of it is almost always keyword for poor shot placement.

 

[Bourbon_and_Bullets]

Shot a buck with a 162 eldx through both shoulders at 60 yds last week. did not expect an exit but did tear up a shit ton of meat on the way out. Monos will be better but liquify and lung/heart, they ain’t going far.

143’s in 6.5 have performed well for me. seriously question people who think a 6.5 is marginal. Get good bullets and hit your mark.

 

[Campguy308]

I don’t believe it’s over hyped I think it filled a void that was on the market at the time and paved the way for the high BC bullets

It picked up the ball after Remington dropped it. The only hype is coming from those that aren't serious shooters. Serious shooters understand what it is, and what it isn't.

 

[BytorJr]

It’s all about shot placement I’ve seen plenty of deer taken at 2-400 yards with a creedmoor no problem

Toss in bullet combination and I'd agree. But I'd bet many folks just shoot S&B FMJ shit and expect it to work.

 

[BytorJr]

I think the 6.5CM should be fine. Hell, 6.5x55 works, so why wouldn't a CM? For me, deer guns would run the gamut of where I was hunting.
Could be a 6.5, could be a 270 with some 145 gr stuff. However, here in the "woods", many a deer has been done in with a Remington 740/742/7400 (provided it's not a jam-o-matic). Guy where I used to duck hunt had one of those little carbines and they always worked for him. Put the trusted Core-Lock in and anything this side of 200 yards should fall (granted, with a 740 series, from what I understand you'd best stay <150 due to accuracy). But, like anything...shot placement is king.

I also don't understand the folks that say you have to have 3-9x cross hair on a deer rifle. Perhaps I'm too stupid to figure out why a tactical scope doesn't work.

 

[jbuck88]

I don’t believe it’s over hyped I think it filled a void that was on the market at the time and paved the way for the high BC bullets

My comment was about all the hunters that bought them thinking its something it's not. I've spent some time with hunters who shoot the 6.5cm. Those conversations would make you cringe. So I do believe they are overhyped to the general public.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I also don't understand the folks that say you have to have 3-9x cross hair on a deer rifle.

Those are fudds. You don’t need them in your life.

 

[BytorJr]

Those are fudds. You don’t need them in your life.

LOL. I agree, and they are not or at least not that I know of .

If it's vintage I'm ok with it; but somebody buying something < 20 years old would be a nut. 3-9x would work fine for those old 740's and such.

 

[Campguy308]

I also don't understand the folks that say you have to have 3-9x cross hair on a deer rifle. Perhaps I'm too stupid to figure out why a tactical scope doesn't work.

Because the average hunter (non-shooter) doesn't understand angular measurement reticles and how they apply to bullets, gravity, and wind.

 

[hlee]

Can keep 3 of 5 on a paper plate at 100 is the typical bar of precision for “hunters.”

“There’s no replacement for displacement” when you don’t know where the bullet is going.

My last several deer were taken with a 123 gr eld-m from a 6.5 grendel.

Who the fuck reads outdoor life anyway? I can smell the red checkered flannel from here…

 

[MakeSawdust]

The ONLY good part of that article is the part where they state that no two wounds are alike.

I have seen literally hundreds of whitetails killed with mostly small caliber rifles. I have also seen hundreds killed with shotgun slugs and big bore "straight walled" cartridges. I have seen all manner of strange things happen. It has been proven to me that a whitetail shot in the CNS can be killed with less than 200 ft/lbs of energy. On the other hand, I have seen them absorb multiple 12 and 20 gauge slugs that didn't hit vital organs. 2 deer tied the record. They were hit 17 times before being finished with a shot to the head. All hits were with shotgun slugs cutting huge wound channels and delivering nearly a ton of energy. I have hit deer with 20 gauge hornady sst slugs at 100 yards and gotten no expansion and no blood, but a dead deer at the end of a short snow track. I have seen deer killed instantly with normal behind the shoulder heart/lung shots with everything from 223 to 7 STW, including a deer that died instantly from an arrow at 57 yards (I would love for someone to explain that. It was quartering away. The shot was from the ground and was mid body high and entered at the back of the rib cage and hit the off side shoulder. The deer went stiff and fell dead with its feet in the air.)

I have seen deer killed with 55 grain Nosler BT from a 22/250 from 10 yards to 350 yards with no issues. The majority of our deer killing with rifles was does with .243s. We used all manners of bullets including 70 gr nosler bt, 80 and 85 gr Speer hot core, 95 gr SST, and 95 grain ballistic tips. The only bullets that ever gave us a problem was one shoulder splash with 70 grain ballistic tips. In two days we killed does with 85 gr hot cores at 300,365, 464, and 482 as well as a couple more under 200 yards. There was one guy that hunted with us that used a 270 or a 7 stw and there was no noticeable difference in what we killed or how it died.

I will also say that I just started my kids hunting in iowa with a 350 legend. They have shot 3 deer with it. None have run over 75 yards after the shot. 2 were heart shot and one was double lunged. One at 210 yards, one at 202 yards, and one at 131 yards. The only ammo I was able to find was the 180 grain Winchester. The only time the bullet expanded was on the 131 yard shot. The other 2 got no expansion. The worst blood trail was the one with the best bullet expansion. Likely because it was higher on the body.

Also, my brothers first buck was with a muzzleloader and a 185 gr xtp bullet at 85 yards. It was a double lung hit with no exit. The deer ran about 50 yards before leaving a drop of blood. Luckily, it was in heavy cover and we just followed the deer trail. Once he started bleeding he left a good blood trail and was easy to find.

Last crazy story, I shot a doe that fell over like a shooting gallery silhouette. I stopped and poked her in the eye, examined the shot entrance and exit, which looked double lung, and tagged the deer. I then proceeded as a participant in the deer drive. At no point did the deer twitch. When we came back to gut her she was on her feet and 50 yards from where she fell. This was with a 20 gauge sst slug.

Now, if I had simply shot as many deer with a 300 wm as I have slug guns and 243s with midweight bullets, I could write a random ass OL article about how all calibers are ineffective and we should be hunting with howitzers.

The moral of the story is, if you hunt long enough you will see some weird shit. Put the bullet in the right spot, and it normally does the job, regardless of what cartridge it was launched from.

P.S. Most times when I have seen deer that were "shot perfectly" but don't die, the shot is just below or just in front of the heart. To the casual observer it looks like a heart shot. Upon further inspection the heart was never touched by a bullet.

 

[rookie7]

Can keep 3 of 5 on a paper plate at 100 is the typical bar of precision for “hunters.”

“There’s no replacement for displacement” when you don’t know where the bullet is going.

My last several deer were taken with a 123 gr eld-m from a 6.5 grendel.

Who the fuck reads outdoor life anyway? I can smell the red checkered flannel from here…

I don't read Outdoor Life, but I am guilty of taking the click bait.

On another forum a member posted the link - "sharing information" - that particular member is also an outdoor writer - I took the bait, clicked, and read the article because I was thinking "what kind of crap have they stirred up now?" Well... now we know!

 

[Gtscotty]

I also 100% the 6.5cm has been hyped into something that's It's not.

It just took the top-hyped spot over from the .308, which had, in turn, bumped off the ol '06, and so on and so forth back into the hallowed pages of fudd-lore history.

 

[Fig]

Who gives a fuck? It's a deer.

I've see hundreds killed with a 5.56. 6.5 is excessive power on a white tail as far as I'm concerned.

If you shoot enough of them one is going to run off. It's people who don't hunt, or stack them who are worried about wounding one. I'm not. Fuck them. I haven't had one run off in years, but guess what? It will happen again, and when it does...

 

[godofthunder]

Who gives a fuck? It's a deer.

I've see hundreds killed with a 5.56. 6.5 is excessive power on a white tail as far as I'm concerned.

This is exactly why I built a 6mm ARC.

 

[Lange Carabine]

For a while in the 70's and 80's it seemed that gun writer out there, at some point in their career, wrote at least one article on how weak, inaccurate and unsuitable the .30 carbine was for hunting anything bigger than a fox. Horse apples, I'd seen to many animals up to and including cows killed with a 22 LR to believe that. (Same goes for the old Fudd tales of FMJ's just penciling through, but that's a story for another time.)
I bought my first one in 1988.
Between then and around 2006 or 7 when my eye sight got to where I couldn't see the irons good enough anymore I reckon I killed in the neighborhood of 70-80 head of deer and hogs with it.
As best I can remember I lost only one deer I shot with it.
Never lost a hog as they were all head shots.
I've lost count of the number I've killed with a 222 or 223 over the last 20 odd years, 11 this year alone.
Never have owned, hunted with or even shot a 6.5 Creed, but I've killed a good many with a 6.5x55 Swede and a 6.5x50 Jap with bullets weights ranging from 85gr sierra HP's to 160gr Sierras and Hornadys.
I even know a couple guys that kill deer and hogs with 22lr .22 mag or .17 HMR.

 

[cas6969]

It’s get me when people compare the creed to the good ol .270 you are literally comparing apples to oranges

A huge part of the problem we have is people want to apply apples answers to orange questions. (they just may not know or care that it's an orages question) Just because it's a deer and it's a bullet, or a cartridge doesn't make the answers black and white. We see this in "is (insert small bore cartridge here) enough for deer?" threads, and "is this (insert bullet) okay for deer"? thread. Invariably someone will chime in "I've killed deer with a .22LR!" Okay fine, did you kill them with a .22LR at 75 yards, quartering away through timber and sapplings, in a snow storm? Out your truck window or in front of a feeder is not exactly the same thing.

Everyone doesn't hunt the way you do or where you do. The "hunting with match bullets" threads often have the qualifier of "you just have to take care with shot placement." That can mean different things to different people. Where I hunt about ten days a season, if I SEE one deer in those ten days it was a success. Another guy somewhere else may see a dozen deer in an evening. He can pass on anything that isn't perfect with little worry of getting another chance. Apples/oranges.
I used to fun argue with an acquaintance about hunting with the .223 which he was a fan of. Where he lived in Kansas, it was no problem to shoot a deer and if need be, watch it run 400-500 yards before it fell over. Where hunt, if they run 10-15 yards you've lost sight of them. My argument wasn't that he was wrong and I was right, just that him proclaiming the .223 a great deer round to anyone who would listen was wrong. Right for you isn't right for everyone.

 

[Lange Carabine]

Invariably someone will chime in "I've killed deer with a .22LR!" Okay fine, did you kill them with a .22LR at 75 yards, quartering away through timber and sapplings, in a snow storm?

No, it was about 45 yards quartering to me slightly through timber with light underbrush, no snow but it was cold as a britch that morning. High shoulder shot with a 22lr solid hit the spine, deer was DRT.
Have also killed 3 with a Ruger single six 22 Mag.

 

[Caset013]

A huge part of the problem we have is people want to apply apples answers to orange questions. (they just may not know or care that it's an orages question) Just because it's a deer and it's a bullet, or a cartridge doesn't make the answers black and white. We see this in "is (insert small bore cartridge here) enough for deer?" threads, and "is this (insert bullet) okay for deer"? thread. Invariably someone will chime in "I've killed deer with a .22LR!" Okay fine, did you kill them with a .22LR at 75 yards, quartering away through timber and sapplings, in a snow storm? Out your truck window or in front of a feeder is not exactly the same thing.

Everyone doesn't hunt the way you do or where you do. The "hunting with match bullets" threads often have the qualifier of "you just have to take care with shot placement." That can mean different things to different people. Where I hunt about ten days a season, if I SEE one deer in those ten days it was a success. Another guy somewhere else may see a dozen deer in an evening. He can pass on anything that isn't perfect with little worry of getting another chance. Apples/oranges.
I used to fun argue with an acquaintance about hunting with the .223 which he was a fan of. Where he lived in Kansas, it was no problem to shoot a deer and if need be, watch it run 400-500 yards before it fell over. Where hunt, if they run 10-15 yards you've lost sight of them. My argument wasn't that he was wrong and I was right, just that him proclaiming the .223 a great deer round to anyone who would listen was wrong. Right for you isn't right for everyone.

Well said my dad has taken a lot of deer with the 223 but he hunts within. 200 yds

 

[Tim T.]

I have brought home numerous deer and elk with a 6.5x55 with 140 gr factory loads over the years keeping my shots under 300 yards for over 30 years. I never had an animal run more than 65 yards with high shoulder shots. About 25 years ago I built a 6.5x55AI with a 1 to 8 twist barrel and good mildot optics. I hand load 140g A-max at 2930 fps. Elk out to 600 yards has not been a problem. Bullet placement is the key. I have seen many mule deer killed with a 223 and heavier premium bullets out to 200 yards but I still consider it marginal at best.

 

[st1650]

Not the greatest fan of the 143 ELD-X but I promise you the 156 Sako deerhead kills DRT inside of 300 yards. It just got a shitty BC but it groups 1/2 moa, fully expands and will go through while retaining all its weight, unlike the ELD-X who tends to fragment. That being said, buddy of mine is an extremely gifted hunter and has killed moose with his 6.5x47 with AMAX and ELD-M at 600 yards, he thinks that shooting them too close they tend to “blow up” but when they slow down a couple hundred FPS they penetrate deeper. He also usually keeps Nosler partition for close range hunting and switches to the match stuff if he needs a longer shot.

But yeah between my wife rifles and mine
243 win with Barnes 80 TTSX
26” 6.5 CM w/ Sako 156
22” 7mm-08 w/ partition 150
16” 308 w/ 150 fusion
12.5” 300BLK with LeHigh 174 subsonic.

Guess what, we’ve had DRT with all of them and the only time I’ve ever had to track an animal was because of a steep angle shot that hit high in the shoulder. It was my fuckup, not the gun or the caliber.

 

[st1650]

“And it’s just because it’s such a small entry hole … It’s the size of a pencil”

Holy fuck. This is why I never read articles from magazines. What a retard. How much of a difference between 6.5 (0.264”) and 7mm (0.284”) as if that makes a difference.

 

[fdkay]

“And it’s just because it’s such a small entry hole … It’s the size of a pencil”

Holy fuck. This is why I never read articles from magazines. What a retard. How much of a difference between 6.5 (0.264”) and 7mm (0.284”) as if that makes a difference.

Big difference, .284 is the archangel of death