6.5 Creedmoor

#2,551
exacto said:
Are you saying the 50 ES was from different loads?
Click to expand...
What I am saying is that ES is about 40-50 when loading my 6.5 Creedmoor.

When I use the same practices on my 6GT my ES don’t ever exceed 15-20 at the very most, I usually see 8-12

Only new variable introduced is Neolube N2, so I am wondering if this was inherent of 6.5 Creed, or the Neolube or the different Neck Tension.

I’ll try to change a few of the variables one at the time and will let y’all know :)
 
#2,552
YerrowSniper said:
What I am saying is that ES is about 40-50 when loading my 6.5 Creedmoor.

When I use the same practices on my 6GT my ES don’t ever exceed 15-20 at the very most, I usually see 8-12

Only new variable introduced is Neolube N2, so I am wondering if this was inherent of 6.5 Creed, or the Neolube or the different Neck Tension.

I’ll try to change a few of the variables one at the time and will let y’all know :)
Click to expand...
Ok I thought you meant you shot a ladder test and the ES for the session was 50 fps. I usually just watch my SD and with my 6.5 I’m usually around 4-8 fps
 
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#2,555
BuildingConceptsllc said:
How many rounds are you guys shooting with those es numbers?
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I shot two 10 shot groups today testing neck tension and they were 4.6 & 7.5 fps SD / 17 & 22 ES. The total 20 shots had an SD of 6.14 / 22 ES.

I usually shoot 10 to check/log my avg velocity with temps etc. before shooting a bunch. Using a magneto speed so don’t use it for full range session. Hope to get a labradar soon.
 
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#2,556
exacto said:
I shot two 10 shot groups today testing neck tension and they were 4.6 & 7.5 fps SD / 17 & 22 ES. The total 20 shots had an SD of 6.14 / 22 ES.

I usually shoot 10 to check/log my avg velocity with temps etc. before shooting a bunch. Using a magneto speed so don’t use it for full range session. Hope to get a labradar soon.
Click to expand...
Ok. I am just having some higher es than I'd like but that's 30 round es and I think my high end was due to me leaving a round chambered for a little bit after shooting several groups. My numbers always look pretty good with 10 and 20 round sets but when it gets to 30 it's bigger than I'd like 48 ES I think it was today. My SD isn't too bad with 30, just the ES I'd like to get down but I was just curious how it compared.


I use a magneto too but I have a mount to use my arca and I've done a little modification to it so it just stays put the whole time and doesn't effect POI
 
#2,558
BuildingConceptsllc said:
Ok. I am just having some higher es than I'd like but that's 30 round es and I think my high end was due to me leaving a round chambered for a little bit after shooting several groups. My numbers always look pretty good with 10 and 20 round sets but when it gets to 30 it's bigger than I'd like 48 ES I think it was today. My SD isn't too bad with 30, just the ES I'd like to get down but I was just curious how it compared.


I use a magneto too but I have a mount to use my arca and I've done a little modification to it so it just stays put the whole time and doesn't effect POI
Click to expand...
Yeah that’s why I focus on SD and not ES as much, especially on large sample sizes. There’s always that one that’ll throw the ES but the SD shows me what I’m looking for. Anything single digit I’m happy with.

I use a similar mount (wiser precision) but it sucks having to swap between guns. Usually shoot my 300wm also so I have to adjust everything.
 
#2,559
exacto said:
Yeah that’s why I focus on SD and not ES as much, especially on large sample sizes. There’s always that one that’ll throw the ES but the SD shows me what I’m looking for. Anything single digit I’m happy with.

I use a similar mount (wiser precision) but it sucks having to swap between guns. Usually shoot my 300wm also so I have to adjust everything.
Click to expand...
I had one of those too but the new one I have is a lot better, after the mods I made. It is a pain to change it up between guns but it's much better now than before with another mount or pre my mods. (Actually I have a buddy who's a Smith and manufacturer sot ect... so he did the mods for me, and it's much better).

A labradar does seem to be easy button though. I I initially had it sort of in my head that once I found my load for a gun, I wouldn't be testing so much but that's only partially true.
 
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#2,560
Just finished this load:

Norma brass
Remington LRP
44.5gr Staball
140 ELDM @ .020 jump
26" barrel


The upper node is a full grain over Max book value with no pressure signs or powder compression.

Had a slight right to left at 1k but you can see the vertical spread is stellar. On the smaller IPSC @ 800 yards I dropped the last shot while the target was still swinging and shanked it right. At 600 It center punched. 3-shot groups.

There's another sweet spot at .035 jump but this was just rebarreled so I'll let it erode out.
140 ELDM-Staball-2.JPGIMG_20220221_075029.jpg
IMG_20220221_074726.jpg

IMG_20220221_074501.jpg

IMG_20220221_090553~2.jpg
 
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#2,563
Gents,

Im looking to see if someone has a good hunting load using the Hornady 140 SST. I have good brass, Petersen, Lapua and some ok brass...WIN and Hornady to throw at this.

I have I4350, H4350, a pound of Superformance and Varget and 4064 for the guys who shoot that. Have CCI 450s for primers and a host of good LRPs as well.

Someone share some success stories with the 140 SST in hopes that I can narrow my charge range and not burn through a bunch of components to find a good load. Post COAls too.

JB
 
#2,565
savagemann said:
Shot my first 6 5cm loads today.
Pretty happy with the results.
I wasn't able to get to my regular reloading equipment, so I used my backup stuff.
My impromptu setup was a Lee hand press, old gem pro 20 scale, Lee PPM, Franklin trickler and a Lee die set with their collet neck sizer, of which I polished the mandrel in my drill stepping up to 5000g sand paper and light oil. It looks like a mirror.
I settled on
41.5gr H4350
Cci450 primers
140gr Eldm
Lapua virgin brass

I lightly lubed the inside of each neck with imperial wax and collet sized.
Cleaned the wax out with 99%iso and a qtip. Everything went smoothly.
Pretty happy with the groups.
Thought some of you may get a kick out of the minimal setup and results.

Btw, the targets with the large diamonds were not printed to scale. The 1 moa squares are more like .85moa

Top left target 10rds. All other groups 5 shots
Click to expand...
bluejay75 said:
Is this the kind of load that I can go straight to the batch and get MOA or better? I have 150 pieces of Petersen that needs to be fireformed anyway. Would be nice to have a good MOA hunting load to serve that purpose.
Click to expand...
That's pretty much what I did. See my quote above.

IMG_20220220_141521.jpg
 
#2,568
reubenski said:
Depending on barrel, chamber, moisture content in your powder, etc, etc people are shooting all the way up to 43grs.

The difference in .5gr increases is only about 30fps. Minimum incremental increase or decrease I would use is .3gr and even that could be mincing about excessively. I don't even load .2gr increments in 223 loads
Click to expand...

Reubenski is spot on: All rifles are different. A “match chamber” rifle with a min spec chamber might hit max pressure at 40.5 gn or even lower, while a loose chamber job (oversized) could go up to 42 or even 43 gn.

A barrel with 2000 rounds on it, where the lands have moved forward 150 thou (or intentional long freebore) might also need more than 42 gn.

Thick brass like Norma pressures up sooner, but last longer. Thin skinned brass like Hornady might need a grain more to reach max pressure.

But no need to load at the max pressure, that last 100 fps does not mean much in practice, so find a happy place a grain or so lower to leave ample safety margin for hot days, or for the day you accidentally load to a jam (bad idea, if your normal load has a jump, speed and pressure will go way up). Could be unsafe if you run close to the pressure limit with a jump, and you then switch (accidentally or intentionally) to a jam. If you want to try a jam, back off at least 2 grains and work up again.

Also note that IMR4350 and H4350 are close but not the same burn rate. Expect 0.3 to 0.6 gn powder load differences for the same speed.

Start low and work up. Get a good reloading manual. Even lot-to-lot differences can move your load by 0.5 grain or more.

You will have to test on your own and see what your rifle likes. Learn to recognize pressure signs! Don’t exceed the max speed listed in the load manual. Don’t be disappointed if you pressure out 50 gps below book max. Speed is a good analog for peak chamber pressure. If you are getting “phenomenal speed” from a 24” barrel, higher than book max, you are very likely running way over the SAAMI pressure limit. Top quality brass lasts much longer, because these brands have harder heads that slow down primer pocket expansion, but the hard heads can hide the usual pressure signs, like bright shiny ejector marks. So pay close attention to bolt lift getting progressively harder, and primer changes.

Agree that 0.3 is a sensible increment for this cartridge. [With magnum rifle cartridges you can step in 0.5 grain increments.]
 
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#2,570
Looking at grabbing a 6.5, what powder besides H4350 and Staball 6.5 should look at using for 130-140gr? Look for powder regularly and almost never see either of those. Which Vihtavouri powders are recommended? I shoot 308 and 223/556 currently.
 
#2,572
jLorenzo said:
Looking at grabbing a 6.5, what powder besides H4350 and Staball 6.5 should look at using for 130-140gr? Look for powder regularly and almost never see either of those. Which Vihtavouri powders are recommended? I shoot 308 and 223/556 currently.
Click to expand...
RL16, RL26, Shooters World Precision, 4895, Varget, RL15.5, Superformance, N140, N150, 4451, IMR3450, SW4350.... I've heard guys running CFE in a pinch.
 
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#2,575
The two bullets I am looking at that I can currently find are the 120gr ELD and 140gr BTHP both Hornady.
Do I loose about 100 fps going from 24" to 20"?
Looking at two CTRs locally. Will be casual shooting, occasional F class and PRS match gun.
 
#2,578
bluejay75 said:
View attachment 7824390
I’m playing with the casinos money. 41.5 is acceptable but I would like faster. Thanks gents.
Click to expand...

Well, there are double base powders that will give substantially more speed, like RL-26 and 4000MR. Or try Superformance. Have a look at the online load manuals…

But this comes at a cost: More temp sensitive and these powders eat the barrel at least 2x faster, likely more. Also, typically not as accurate, but can be very good for hunting rounds.

Of course, the “better” way to gain another 200 fps in speed (if you want to stay with 6.5 mm bullets), is to switch to a short magnum like the 6.5 PRC. Barrel life will be halved. Wind drift might be 10-12% less. So you pay a high price for a small gain in performance. For comparison, from a 6.5 PRC the 147 ELDM will drift 15”, vs 17” for the 6.5CM at 600 yards, with a full value 10 mph wind.

The practical reality is that you will not misread the wind speed by 100%, and even a newbie might only be off by 30% to 40%, while a competitor probably can achieve 10-20%. So your “miss” might only be 1/3 of 2” or 0.7” at 600 yards. All that extra speed actually buys you very little in accuracy in a target shooting setting, but it will help to properly expand a hunting bullet, even at fairly long distances.

So what is the “Best” way to gain performance? Just step up to a larger caliber like a 7 SAUM or a 30 cal magnum. I recently built a switch barrel rifle for this reason, with three barrels in two different calibers. MPA did the work, and all three Spencer/MPA barrels shoot 1/3 MOA or better. You can change barrels in under a minute. One is a 28” 30 cal barrel with a 7 twist optimized for long super high BC solid copper bullets. The 241 Seneca bullet from PVA has a G1 BC of over 1.1, double that of a normal 308 bullet. Now the wind drift from a 300 WSM for the high BC mono is 10-11” instead of 19-21” for a heavy lead core bullet. That is a very significant gain, and for me, that was worth the money spent on a new barrel and bolt. Yes, the bullets are $1.50 each: High performance is never free… but it was a very cost effective way to achieve 375 ballistic performance in a short action rifle.

Of course, the barrels have different zeros, but the offsets seems to hold pretty consistently, usually within 2 clicks. Simply program that offset into your ballistic calculator. Works remarkably well.
 
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#2,579
Ok, hit the range.. and lets say... I wasn't that impressed and a bit, well, confused.

I hit the range with the 142 SMKs and found this;

Shot4141.341.641.9
12737ERROR27962836
22734269627862861
327242747ERROR2773
MEAN2732272227912823
ES13511088
SD6.8136.067.0745

The errors were my fault. I haven't used a Magneto chronograph in about a year and I forgot I had to keep adjusting the device or it continues to slide after a few rounds due to the recoil.

After my first shot at 41, I got a sticky bolt. Having gotten up to 2700s with the Bergers I was perplexed. I ejected the round, then every round afterwards never had a sticky reaction after that.

I might have to start lower than 41 and work my way up, what do you think? In comparison, this is what I was getting with the 140 Bergers;

41.241.541.541.84242.5
259626182691269527282769
258926182686269927242772
260826192687267127222776
259826182688268827252772
19152867
9.610.582.65153.063.51

I am very meticulous with my rounds. I use a single stage press with an electronic scale and forrestor dies and take my time from the first round to the last.

Suffice to say, I was a bit over the place with the SMKs.

Just so everyone sees what I am working with;

6.5 Creedmoor
Lapua LRP
H4350
Federal 210M

First graph is 142 SMK, second is 140 Berger Hybrids. (Which I am trying to get away from and transition to SMK)
 
#2,580
Sir...Im barely more than a novice so take that into account. Bullets with less bearing surface usually go 50-75 FPS faster with identical loads. The difference between exact weight ELDms and ELDxs show about 100 FPS difference with the speed edge going to ELDxs. And they have less bearing surface.
 
#2,582
Guys, anyone have reloading data using Accurate 2700 for 140gr class bullets it the 6.5 Creed? I ran into a dealer that has 53 8lbs jugs they want to off load. So it's a great price. I am down to my last 13lbs of H4350.

Anyone have good info using this powder. I have had excellent results with H4350 but I am over the time I take to sit and refresh my browser on Powder Valley , it just frustrates myself when it's in my cart and won't let me check out!

I used the search bar and couldn't really get any answers for the 2700 powder. Thanks in advance
 
#2,583
My results from a 11 round ladder of H4350 w/ Hornady 147 ELD-Ms across a magnetospeed.

T3x w/ factory barrel cut to 19.5.

Out of curiosity how much velocity could be gained by dropping to 140s? I have some 140 Bergers. Need to play with the ballistic calculator and see if a little more speed up front with 140s would help or if the reduced BC would negate the gains .

XJGTmlvh.jpg
 
#2,584
Will surely pick up some velocity by dropping weight, but might be worth a look at 130 Bergers, or 123 Scenar/Sierra or 136 Scenars if you’re after increased velocity with a shorter barrel. 2750’s should be very doable with Varget, 2790-2800ish with H4350, depending on choice/condition of brass, with 123 Scenars.
 
#2,585
bobke said:
Will surely pick up some velocity by dropping weight, but might be worth a look at 130 Bergers, or 123 Scenar/Sierra or 136 Scenars if you’re after increased velocity with a shorter barrel. 2750’s should be very doable with Varget, 2790-2800ish with H4350, depending on choice/condition of brass, with 123 Scenars.
Click to expand...

I'm interested in hunting so that's partially why I'm leaning 140 Elite hunter. Have some 143 ELD-X and 156 EOLs but thinking the EOLs are gonna be slow. Will probably end up trading them for 140 Elite hunters of 143 ELD-Xs if I can. The 147s are significantly cheaper though which is a benefit.

147 to 140 gr is a 5% weight decrease, if I can get just a 3-4% velocity increase that puts it at almost 2700 fps. I'm doubting that it correlates that closely though but will find out soon.

Using Hornady and Berger ballistic calculators I get the following. If I'm looking to stay at 1800 fps at impact there's not that much difference between the 147 ELD-M and 140 Elite hunter effective ranges and drops. In reality it'd have to be pretty perfect conditions for me to shoot past 4-500 so it's probably a non-issue...


Bullet
147​
140​
156​
MV
2600​
2700​
2500​
Elevation
1800 fps @
650​
650​
600​
0'
Drop @ 600
-92​
-87​
-100​
1800 fps @
750​
800​
725​
5k
Drop @ 600
-87​
-82​
-95​
1800 fps @
1000​
1000​
900​
10k
Drop @ 600
-76​
-78​
-90​

I'll probably do a 5-10 round string at 42gr with each to see if either primer favors a smaller SD/ES, then shoot an OCW from 41 to 42.5. Primers looked good so may try 43.5gr too, but it was fairly cool so I don't really want to be knocking at the door of max load.
 
#2,586
TX_Diver said:
My results from a 11 round ladder of H4350 w/ Hornady 147 ELD-Ms across a magnetospeed.

T3x w/ factory barrel cut to 19.5.

Out of curiosity how much velocity could be gained by dropping to 140s? I have some 140 Bergers. Need to play with the ballistic calculator and see if a little more speed up front with 140s would help or if the reduced BC would negate the gains .

XJGTmlvh.jpg
Click to expand...

“Out of curiosity how much velocity could be gained by dropping to 140s? I have some 140 Bergers.”

In my three 6.5 CM rifles, a drop of 10 grains in bullet weight gained me (roughly) 100 fps, after redeveloping the load for the new bullet (lighter bullets need more powder before they hit pressure, due to less barrel time). This was from a 26” barrel and H4350 as well as IMR4350.

The 140’s ran at 2765 fps, the 130 Sierra TMK did 2850 fps, and the 120 SMK did 2935 fps or so. These deltas depends only a little bit on powder and barrel length. Different (double base) powders could achieve substantially higher speed, at the cost of much reduced barrel life.

In my experience, bearing surface makes a difference, but it is quite minor.

“Need to play with the ballistic calculator and see if a little more speed up front with 140s would help or if the reduced BC would negate the gains.”

[If we limit ourselves to comparing one high BC ‘modern’ target bullet (Berger Hybrid/EOL, ELDM/Atip, so optimized shape factor bullets) to another modern target bullet] Clever folks with PhDs in Physics have published academic papers that pretty convincingly proved that the highest BC target bullet your barrel twist rate can stabilize, loaded to the same max pressure (the same pressure signs show up), will always (slightly) outperform the next lighter but lower BC bullets going at significantly higher speed. At all distances. The drop will always be “worse” for the heavier higher BC bullet, but that does not matter because you can use your range finder and dial for it, but the wind drift will be less and your group size and the amount of horizontal “miss” on your cold bore shot will always be a little better. This can be be proved with a WEZ analysis. The wind drift difference is not huge between say a 120 running max speed and a 140 grain ELDM at almost max pressure, so you can pick lighter bullets if you like, and not lose a lot. Just saying that the Ballistic calculator experiment is not of much value. BC beats out speed. [More speed usually requires upgrading caliber and making peace with higher recoil and less barrel life.]

There are a few exceptions: If the bullet is rather old-fashioned (old style Sierra hollow point bullets, Hornady BTHP) and you compare with say an A-tip bullet, you might find the modern 135 grain bullet has a better BC than the old style 140. [Of course round nose hunting bullets will be another obvious exception.]

If your freebore and twist rate allows for it, start off with the heavier bullets for target shooting, even if you only get 2600 fps, and see if the rifle likes them. If not, go lighter and try again.

For hunting, figure out what max distance you feel confident about, check up on the minimum speed where the bullet will still expand adequately (the bullet maker’s web site), then add 200 fps to their published nr (subtract out the marketing department bias), and pick a bullet weight that will slightly beat that adjusted speed, even if it is on the lighter side. Bullet expansion is crucial for an ethical kill. Copper bullets like the Barness TTSX or LRX are superb, but requires more speed to expand properly. Don’t be shy to use a 120 gn copper bullet for hunting.
 
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#2,587
NamibHunter said:
“Out of curiosity how much velocity could be gained by dropping to 140s? I have some 140 Bergers.”

In my three 6.5 CM rifles, a drop of 10 grains in bullet weight gained me (roughly) 100 fps, after redeveloping the load for the new bullet (lighter bullets need more powder before they hit pressure, due to less barrel time). This was from a 26” barrel and H4350 as well as IMR4350.

The 140’s ran at 2765 fps, the 130 Sierra TMK did 2850 fps, and the 120 SMK did 2935 fps or so. These deltas depends only a little bit on powder and barrel length. Different (double base) powders could achieve substantially higher speed, at the cost of much reduced barrel life.

In my experience, bearing surface makes a difference, but it is quite minor.

“Need to play with the ballistic calculator and see if a little more speed up front with 140s would help or if the reduced BC would negate the gains.”

Clever folks with PhDs in Physics have published academic papers that pretty convincingly proved that the highest BC target bullet your barrel twist rate can stabilize, loaded to the same max pressure (the same pressure signs show up), will always (slightly) outperform the next lighter but lower BC bullets going at significantly higher speed. At all distances. The drop will always be “worse” but that does not matter because you can use your range finder and dial for it, but the wind drift will be less and your group size and the amount of horizontal “miss” on your cold bore shot will always be a little better. The wind drift difference is not huge between say a 120 and a 140 grain ELDM, so you can pick lighter bullets if you like, and not lose a lot. Just saying that the Ballistic calculator experiment is not of much value. BC beats out speed.

There are a few exceptions: If the bullet is rather old-fashioned (old style Sierra hollow point bullets, Hornady BTHP) and you compare with say an A-tip bullet, you might find the modern 135 bullet has a better BC than the old style 140. [Of course round nose hunting bullets will be another obvious exception.]

If your freebore and twist rate allows for it, start off with the heavier bullets for target shooting, even if you only get 2600 fps, and see if the rifle likes them. If not, go lighter and try again.

For hunting, figure out what max distance you feel confident about, check up on the minimum speed where the bullet will still expand adequately (the bullet maker’s web site), then add 200 fps to their published nr (subtract out the marketing department bias), and pick a bullet weight that will slightly beat that adjusted speed, even if it is on the lighter side. Bullet expansion is crucial for an ethical kill. Copper bullets like the Barness TTSX or LRX are superb, but requires more speed to expand properly. Don’t be shy to use a 120 gn copper bullet for hunting.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I seem to have decent amount of throat length to load the heavier bullets long. I'm loading 147 ELD-Ms at about 2.89" COAL which I can get to 2600fps. It'll take me a few weeks to play with the different variations but I'll post some updates as I work through it.
 
#2,589
TX_Diver said:
My results from a 11 round ladder of H4350 w/ Hornady 147 ELD-Ms across a magnetospeed.

T3x w/ factory barrel cut to 19.5.

Out of curiosity how much velocity could be gained by dropping to 140s? I have some 140 Bergers. Need to play with the ballistic calculator and see if a little more speed up front with 140s would help or if the reduced BC would negate the gains .

XJGTmlvh.jpg
Click to expand...
I have a 21" bbl. 40 grains of H4350 with 140 grain Berger hunting bullets, CCI 250 primers in Peterson Brass (51.6 grains H20) at a COAL of 2.880" gets me 2696FPS and 0.259" groups at 100 yards. SD3, ES7fps. Same bullet in Lapua Small Primer cases with 42 grains H100V averages 2736fps, but groups are half inch. Factory 147's run 2649 for reference. I tried the 156's too. Peterson brass, 40.3 H100V=2619FPS. Accuracy was not great, barely MOA. Went up to 46.8 grains Ramshot Magnum and got 2665 out of them, but poor accuracy and mild sticky bolt. Still haven't found a load I'm happy with. Might just save the heavies for the .264 Win Mag and stay 130-140 grain with the 6.5Cm.
 
#2,591
Yesterday shot 2 different 5 shot strings to verify velocity difference between CCI & Win Primers w/ the 147 ELD-M. Also loaded up 4 ladders w/ a few different bullets for comparison and shot the 156 EOLs today.

T3x w/ 19.25" barrel.

Win primers were slightly flatter but reading online it sounds like they're softer sometimes. Up to 43 gr still had no other pressure signs w/ the 147 ELD-M.
2aXj0Kah.jpg


Have a few other bullets to try still so I loaded up ladders to get a rough idea of velocities and pressures. Shot the 156 EOLs today. Probably end up trading them for whatever other bullet I settle on.
gw46kB2h.jpg
 
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#2,592
BigBlastin300win said:
I totally understand and I did check it I am at 1.46 being at 2577fps and I am still loading up i expect to get to 2600. which would put me at 1.5 or 1.6. Trust me id much rather tune loads for my 300 but it is already tuned. Just having fun shooting targets and working up loads. Got a box of 156's and figured why not. The factory stuff shot really well at 700. Haven't tried it out further yet.
Click to expand...

Just posted my results in a 19.25" barrel. I got to about the same as you, not quite to 2600.
 
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#2,593
I haven’t loaded for 6.5CM in several years, and I just started load development again yesterday. Tikka t3x, proof carbon 24”, H4350, FGMM brass, large primers, 140ELDM. I started at 42.0 grains and increased by .2 grains up to 43.8. Went all the way up with no pressure signs and almost 2900fps. Crazy. Obviously I’m not going to run it that fast. The velocity node ended up being 42.8 and 43.0 - speed only increased by 3fps.
Guess I just have two questions or observations:
1. Anyone else seeing proof barrels shooting faster than everything else?
2. Some people say find a considerably lower node and tune with seating depth, but I need to get at least 2750fps to meet NRL hunter power factor. Thoughts or tips?
 
#2,594
Cjwise5 said:
I haven’t loaded for 6.5CM in several years, and I just started load development again yesterday. Tikka t3x, proof carbon 24”, H4350, FGMM brass, large primers, 140ELDM. I started at 42.0 grains and increased by .2 grains up to 43.8. Went all the way up with no pressure signs and almost 2900fps. Crazy. Obviously I’m not going to run it that fast. The velocity node ended up being 42.8 and 43.0 - speed only increased by 3fps.
Guess I just have two questions or observations:
1. Anyone else seeing proof barrels shooting faster than everything else?
2. Some people say find a considerably lower node and tune with seating depth, but I need to get at least 2750fps to meet NRL hunter power factor. Thoughts or tips?
Click to expand...
I think it’s barrel specific. I recently just started loading again for 6.5 too. 24” bartlein…..same as all my previous ones. All of my precious barrels my load was between 42-42.6 H4350. Giving me right around 2750
Loaded up this barrel with 41.5 and got 2740 right out the gate so this barrel is obviously faster.
 
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#2,595
Cjwise5 said:
I haven’t loaded for 6.5CM in several years, and I just started load development again yesterday. Tikka t3x, proof carbon 24”, H4350, FGMM brass, large primers, 140ELDM. I started at 42.0 grains and increased by .2 grains up to 43.8. Went all the way up with no pressure signs and almost 2900fps. Crazy. Obviously I’m not going to run it that fast. The velocity node ended up being 42.8 and 43.0 - speed only increased by 3fps.
Guess I just have two questions or observations:
1. Anyone else seeing proof barrels shooting faster than everything else?
2. Some people say find a considerably lower node and tune with seating depth, but I need to get at least 2750fps to meet NRL hunter power factor. Thoughts or tips?
Click to expand...

That is scary fast for a 24” and a 140 gn using H4350…. I have a 30” Shilen barrel and that rifle topped out at 2860 fps with H4350. Yes some barrels are up to 100 fps faster than normal, and some are 50-70 slower than average. Some powder lots give 20-40 fps more than the previous batch. And all primer/powder combos are somewhat temp sensitive, even if they are labelled as “Extreme”. Btw: All Primers are temp sensitive to some degree.

But I think most likely you are missing some subtle pressure signs.

Maybe check your primer pocket expansion with a set of “go” and “no-go” pin gauges. The company Ballistic Tools sells one set for SRP and one set for LRP primer pocket checking. Or simply buy pin gauges off Amazon in the correct size, around $5 each. If the primers pockets are not holding a primer after 3 reloads, then that load is perhaps not practical. Barrel life will also benefit from going to the next lower node.

Thin walled brass (like Hornady) can give more speed because internal volume is higher, but brass life is often poor. Not familiar with Federal. Maybe your chamber is slightly over size? Does your fired brass fit in another rifle of the same caliber? Longer freebore can also add speed. [A Melonited barrel (allegedly) also adds some speed, but i am not sure about that.]

Reloader-26 usually gets you an extra 150 fps over H4350, but you can also use it to reduce pressure and load at say 2850 fps, maximizing case life. That is if you can find it anywhere! Somewhat more temp sensitive than H4350, but workable.

Would not recommend RL-17: Lots of speed - but ridiculously temp sensitive. PowerPro 4000 MR also produces very good speed, very good for a hunting round, but IMHO it is perhaps a little too temp sensitive for serious competition. Easier to find though. Pros and cons as alway: These are double base powders and they eat the lands at a much faster rate.

Using HBN coated bullets is another way to lower pressure at the same speed, and gain more case life. But it is yet one more reloading chore to take off. Not hard to do, but not really popular anymore, and it has its own pros and cons.

Good luck and stay safe!
 
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Feniks Technologies said:
I’m in process of reading the last 10 pages or so. But….

Is anyone using 135 A-tips and n160? Probably gonna mess around with that and compare it to 25cm w/135 Berger and n160.
Click to expand...
Lol. That's what I'm running now. Somewhere close to Vhit's max load. It's been solid in 2 barrels. Has about the same temp stability as h4350 for me. I went balls deep on the 25cm, bought a near lifetime supply of 135 bergers and peterson brass but have not chambered a blank yet. Hope it works, I'm sitting on alot of n160.
 
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