Very interesting stuff are you using a suppressor also?
If so have you checked velocities with and without?
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
6.5 Creedmoor
- Thread starter Sportin Wood
- Start date
If so have you checked velocities with and without?
After seeing improvements in my ES/SD by dropping my charge weight in 6 Creed, I tried the same for my 6.5.
24” Proof barrel with Silco Omega
140 ELD M
Hornady brass
CCI 200 primers
H4350
41.4 was my load before
2830fps
ES 19
SD 8.7
40.6 is my new load
2770
ES 7
SD 3.0
Same accuracy, slower, but I’ll take better ES numbers.
24” Proof barrel with Silco Omega
140 ELD M
Hornady brass
CCI 200 primers
H4350
41.4 was my load before
2830fps
ES 19
SD 8.7
40.6 is my new load
2770
ES 7
SD 3.0
Same accuracy, slower, but I’ll take better ES numbers.
Last edited:
I have been loading some Rl19 in my creed recently. I've been having difficulty finding a replacement for Rl26 which I want to save for my 300prc coming soon.
Rl19 is everywhere I look and reasonable vs 35$ a pound for 4350 when I can find it.
I loaded up some brass to fireform no ladder no intent to use 2 weeks ago.
Win and fed brass were used win with 147elds and fed 142smks.
Win brass 147 WLR primers 45.5 Rl19 2.830coal 2765fps Es 3 sd 1 1/4" 3shot group all horizontal at 555yd 14-18mph 11-2 wind
FC brass 142smk wlr primers 45.5 RL19 2825coal(same seater setting) 2771 ES 1 2.25 lower left side of the plat at 620yds same wind as above. I only fired 3 shots over the magneto speed so there's that. I also never did anything with testing. I called a friend to ask about Rl19 and said fill a case weigh it and determine what a 100% density load might be without going over the data they had in the new book. I'm a grain below their book max and 1/4 up the neck without using a droptube or vibrating.
My phone died due to no service and cold temps so no photos.
I'm shooting locally today to do a proper ladder test and also have 25 147's loaded @ the 45.5 to get a proper zero.
The above was shot with putting the rifle in a chassis changing rings due to height and having no zero. I shot cold bore on 8x @ 480 was 4 mils low dialed in and confirmed and went to 555yds which landed on 0 in the turret. using the dope I had for a 100V load at 2775 with the 142 I was good to 650(furthest I had to shoot) Went 15 clean @ 650 on the 8" plate 1-3 on the 4" with 147's I 4-4 on headshots @ 650 on the ipsc but didn't hit the 4" with the 142's in 3 shots. The wind was "visible due to a bit of powder snow on top of the crust to give directional changes but it was still a bitch for me to stay the 8" plate. The 308 I also had out that day made the isc shots and I missed twice out of 5 on the 8" once high left then low right on changing gusts. I shot 20 or so shots at the 4" and went 0fer with the trace framing it all the way around it.
Rl19 is everywhere I look and reasonable vs 35$ a pound for 4350 when I can find it.
I loaded up some brass to fireform no ladder no intent to use 2 weeks ago.
Win and fed brass were used win with 147elds and fed 142smks.
Win brass 147 WLR primers 45.5 Rl19 2.830coal 2765fps Es 3 sd 1 1/4" 3shot group all horizontal at 555yd 14-18mph 11-2 wind
FC brass 142smk wlr primers 45.5 RL19 2825coal(same seater setting) 2771 ES 1 2.25 lower left side of the plat at 620yds same wind as above. I only fired 3 shots over the magneto speed so there's that. I also never did anything with testing. I called a friend to ask about Rl19 and said fill a case weigh it and determine what a 100% density load might be without going over the data they had in the new book. I'm a grain below their book max and 1/4 up the neck without using a droptube or vibrating.
My phone died due to no service and cold temps so no photos.
I'm shooting locally today to do a proper ladder test and also have 25 147's loaded @ the 45.5 to get a proper zero.
The above was shot with putting the rifle in a chassis changing rings due to height and having no zero. I shot cold bore on 8x @ 480 was 4 mils low dialed in and confirmed and went to 555yds which landed on 0 in the turret. using the dope I had for a 100V load at 2775 with the 142 I was good to 650(furthest I had to shoot) Went 15 clean @ 650 on the 8" plate 1-3 on the 4" with 147's I 4-4 on headshots @ 650 on the ipsc but didn't hit the 4" with the 142's in 3 shots. The wind was "visible due to a bit of powder snow on top of the crust to give directional changes but it was still a bitch for me to stay the 8" plate. The 308 I also had out that day made the isc shots and I missed twice out of 5 on the 8" once high left then low right on changing gusts. I shot 20 or so shots at the 4" and went 0fer with the trace framing it all the way around it.
Well, these are pretty fast speeds for a heavy 147 gn bullet in a 6.5 Creedmoor (out of a 26” barrel). More in line with a 6.5 PRC. Not doubting your data, just curious what is different about your chamber that allows such high speed? Could you ask the gun maker what reamer they used? Does the gun have longer than normal freebore?
I have a 5 year old Savage 12 in 6.5 Creedmoor with 3,150 rounds down the tube that shoots well again after a deep clean (and removal of a carbon ring). The lands have moved forward at least 0.2”. If i load for a small jump (15 thou), the COAL is around 2.975”. I get way slower speed (2630 fps) compared to when the rifle was new (2765 fps) with 140 gn projectiles. I noticed from the carbon on the neck and shoulder and round primer edges with minimal craters that the peak pressure must be low. Repeated the pressure test. Went up on powder in 0.3 gn increments, and 2.5 grains of extra H4350 later, i have yet to hit definitive pressure signs like a hard bolt lift or an ejector mark.
Presume the additinal case volume from the bullet sitting so shallow in the neck (0.17” deep) is the cause?
Do any of you guys have experience with this situation?
That barrel is about done. The velocity shift tells you it is done. You can keep packing powder and get a bit more life, but it is not going to last much longer. Typical barrel life is around 2k to 2500.
Yep pretty sure the barrel is nearing end-of-life. Intend to use it for hunting only and keep the round count down to 20 a year.
[Removed subsequent question and moved it to a new thread. Don’t want to serail the thread.]
Last edited:
What brass was this with? I have Peterson and have been using 41.4 and 41.6 with the 140 ELDM and 143 ELDX out of my old barrel. Breaking in a new 28" Bartlein and going to shoot 140 ELDM and use the 135 A-Tips for a 2 day match.
I cut a 23.5" Bartlein down to 18" for a suppressed hunting rifle. I am using Rl16 and Peterson srp brass. Went from 2815 fps to 2737 with 140 ELDM and 41.4 of Rl16, 2830 fps to 2729 with the 143 EDLX and the same charge. Old factory Prime is 2770 fps. Got the 140 Accubond up to 2728 with 41.6 of Rl16, but every 5 round ground with every charge had a random flier. Reminded me of the 140 RDF.
The barrel had 1800 rounds down it before I cut it down.
Yes. I only got about 15ish fps bump with it. \
Not directly. My Tikka Tac A1 has a long throat and I have to seat them long. I have yet to reach pressure in any load I've made for that rifle compared to my other 6.5 I had with a Proof barrel with a "standard" throat.
Thanks for the details.
A good demonstration of how much chamber dimensions can affect speed.
My MPA rifle has a (close to) min spec chamber), which is optimized for the Hornady 140 ELDM factory ammo, so short freebore, and it shows pressure signs at 2750 fps with 140s and H4350. It has a 26” barrel. It is an accurate rifle capable of 0.4” groups, and a joy to shoot, but i would be lucky to get 2680 fps shooting the 153 Atip bullets. The long bullet sits so deep in the case, it takes up a lot of case capacity.
Pressure test planned for later this week.
Last edited:
Has anyone tinkered with the Federal TLR bullet? Are there any tips or tricks to get the lighter bullets to perform well in a fast twist barrel? I have this issue in 7 mag and 6.5 CM, I can't seem to find the balance.
Interesting bullet design. Claim-to-fame seems to be that the bullet expands over a very wide speed range, from 10 yards to 700+ yards. High BC bullet, with symmetrical expansion to ensure straight line path through the animal.
That's what drew me to it. I was not really a fan of the performance of the ELD-X or interbond at high V (2900ish @300 yards). ELDX shed everything, interbond didn't seem to expand at all.
That was with my 7 mag 1:8.5, I steer clear after that. I've had good luck with the Federal Trophy bond in .308, I figured it would be similar in my 6.5 CM 1:8 at 130 gn. I'm just hoping I can get the performance out of the lighter bullet through that twist. I do plan on going lighter for the yotes on the farm, I hope someone found a way to balance light bullets in 6.5 CM about 100gn through 1:8. Lol I just like tinkering with this stuff, physics rules.
I guess all bullets have some inherent compromises. Different bullets shine in different applications.
Example: I shot a very nice aoudad at 60 yards in December with a 180 gn Barnes TTSX. These are tough thick skinned North African animals, and shot placement matters. A bad shot on an aoudad (e. g. liver) will cause the animal to run for 3 to 5 miles, and a good tracking dog like a bloodhound will be needed to find it.
The Barnes bullet went through the main arteries that connect with the hart and penetrated both lungs. It did exit on the opposite side. Animal ran 10 yards and then fell over. Opposite side rib case was fairly bloodshot, and that meat was not usable. Hydrostatic shock appears to be massive, and the bullet reliably opens up its four petals at high speed.
Main compromise with the Barnes bullets is that it has a lower BC than the newer alternatives. Not suitable for long range hunting. I would not use it beyond 450 yards, and only if wind speed is minimal. Barnes LRX is a bit better.
Last edited:
Yall tried the 123gr or 130gr tipped from midway? Thinkin about tryin them with some varget or staball6.5 what yall think?
I figure for my hunting loads I'll stick with a partition bullet design. They seem to have the best controlled expansion through the velocity ranges from what I have found. I have some testing to do with other bullet designs, but partition type bullets have a good history.
Yep, the partition design has a lot of benefits. My PH friends in Namibia and South Africa often recommend partition bullets, like the Nosler Partition, for that very reason.
Terrain changes a lot, grassland in the vallyes and dense bush on the mountain side. Many shots in dense bush are closer than 150 yards, sometimes less than 50, and you don’t always have a lot of time to ensure perfect shot placement. Bullet velocity will be still be very fast and some bullets explode on impact if speed is too high. In the grassland, shots are 250-400 yards, and bullet speed will be a lot slower on impact, and might not expand well. It is difficult to find one bullet that works from 30 to 530.
On thick skinned African animals, bullets like the Berger VLD Hunter does not work well. If you show up with that, your friendly PH in his worn khakis will quickly tell you to put that away, and bring you a box of partition ammo. They have seen too many failures.
The heart on African animals is further forward compared to North American game, behind the shoulder blade. You need a tougher bullet that holds together if you expect to hit thick bone on the way in.
Last edited:
I’ve heard reports of it burning dirty/creating heavy carbon deposits. What has you’re experience been?
Not much difference than any other powders I’ve run.
Maybe a bit more crud buildup in the brake but nothing drastic.
I haven’t been getting any carbon ring action.
just slightly more brake crud.
That explains bold almost solid semi-blunt design on the round typically used for African and dangerous game. Seems more like a sledgehammer.
I don't blame them for not allowing alot of the newer high BC thin jacketed bullets. The fail rate on them is a little high for my liking, not manufacturer specific either.
I've been working on a 7 mag development for elk which is about the same possible range swing. I just got into the further range shooting and load development. I've got one now working with partition shooting five rounds in 0.68; I'm sure I could get it tighter messing with the jump, not wanting to waste my time 1-2gr sensitivity. I wouldn't think it would be any good in unstable hunting conditions. Especially extreme heat like Africa, it's got to be a headache developing a load for those conditions.
“Especially extreme heat like Africa, it's got to be a headache developing a load for those conditions.”
Son-in-law farms sheep in Namibia, and gets asked to cull springbuck for the neighbors before the winter. Often 200 plus in one weekend. It is basically a cash crop, cooler trucks wait until filled up and then off to the city to get sold at the meat market. Only neck and head shots allowed. Winters are very dry, so not enough feed for a large herd. Peak summer temps are 122 deg F, but the typical summer range is 105-110 F. He loads conservative to avoid pressure signs on really hot days, and the scope zero has to be reset for winter months. Yes the temp change can push you out of the node. Not a major issue out to 300 yards, groups go from 0.4” to 0.7”. Wind and rediculously bad mirage are the main obstacles.
BTW: Winter temps can get below freezing early in the morning. Semi desert conditions, no cloud cover in winter, similar to parts of New Mexico. Competitive shooters develop a winter and summer load, as the temp delta is just too much to achieve first shot hits at distance.
Son-in-law farms sheep in Namibia, and gets asked to cull springbuck for the neighbors before the winter. Often 200 plus in one weekend. It is basically a cash crop, cooler trucks wait until filled up and then off to the city to get sold at the meat market. Only neck and head shots allowed. Winters are very dry, so not enough feed for a large herd. Peak summer temps are 122 deg F, but the typical summer range is 105-110 F. He loads conservative to avoid pressure signs on really hot days, and the scope zero has to be reset for winter months. Yes the temp change can push you out of the node. Not a major issue out to 300 yards, groups go from 0.4” to 0.7”. Wind and rediculously bad mirage are the main obstacles.
BTW: Winter temps can get below freezing early in the morning. Semi desert conditions, no cloud cover in winter, similar to parts of New Mexico. Competitive shooters develop a winter and summer load, as the temp delta is just too much to achieve first shot hits at distance.
Last edited:
“I was not really a fan of the performance of the ELD-X or interbond at high V (2900ish). ELDX shed everything, interbond didn't seem to expand”
Wild thought, but i guess one could down load an ELDX to 2400 fps for short range shots. But then again, changing mags in the heat of the moment might not work too well.
My ballistic solver (Applied Ballistics) allows zero offset to be recorded for different ammo, including windage, so if you have a zero stop and you are comfortable with dialing a solution, you could theoretically switch bullets in the field without having to rezero.
But easier said than done when you have two seconds to take a shot at that trophy kudu bull at 75 yards.
Wild thought, but i guess one could down load an ELDX to 2400 fps for short range shots. But then again, changing mags in the heat of the moment might not work too well.
My ballistic solver (Applied Ballistics) allows zero offset to be recorded for different ammo, including windage, so if you have a zero stop and you are comfortable with dialing a solution, you could theoretically switch bullets in the field without having to rezero.
But easier said than done when you have two seconds to take a shot at that trophy kudu bull at 75 yards.
Savage FV I put in the savage APO chassis. I shot .010 Jump today the flyer was me and the cb most likely was too. There are 5 there and it's 300yds
The second is the cold bore with3 for group. The 2 .308 holes across the bottom are from a student I had this morning.
It ran 2892 today was 2865 at 24, 2880 last week at 41 and 2892 today at 44, but I did move the bullet out .013 which might be part of it. I only shot 10 handloads today with this rifle. The rest was factory winchester for the brass. Speed was lab radar last 2 times and MS the first time. These have been within 1fps of each other to date.
Attachments
Hey guys, looking to get into reloading 6.5 Creedmoor. I'm a total noob when it comes to this but I hear the best way to learn is to read/watch videos on reloading and thats what I've been doing. The thing is finding a starter kit that won't break the bank initially, anybody have any recommendations?
This is a great starter kit! It’s the one I started with. I still use the press, though I have upgraded pretty much everything else. Get yourself a set of calipers, dies, a tumbler and you are off!
From what I've been reading a lot of people are recommending this kit. Seems like its worth it
The press is great. I have loaded 10’s of thousands of rounds... 223, 6mm, 6.5mm, 308... zero issues. I also still use the hand primer. You will end up getting a digital scale. How nice will depend on your budget. Don’t worry about diving deep into your pocket for dies, either. A stand set of hornady reloading dies will do all you need for now.
Just forewarning you, this is a hobby and frankly, a love/hate one. If you have time, don’t mind testing loads, and searching to find components, jump in!
Just forewarning you, this is a hobby and frankly, a love/hate one. If you have time, don’t mind testing loads, and searching to find components, jump in!
Last edited:
+1 for the Press. That was what I started with and still use today.
Do some more research so you buy once cry once. The press is fine scale loading block abd case lube pad. The powder throw eh, the primer tool eh. I've used the priming arm on the press since I started. When you uniform your primer pockets and use the press you have a better system to control that aspect with efficiency. Dies. A body die to bump the shoulder a necksizing die to control neck tension. Whether it's a bushing or collet you can adjust neck tension when you follow the directions. The seater die spend some money. I have the RCBS with the window the Redding comp and the FOrstner. I bought the forstner and will upgrade to this die for other cartridges. If your goal is precision this is where you spend some money. The result will be straighter ammo and that shows tangible results.
A powder trickler is a must also.
You will need a case trimming tool at some point and that adds the choices for the deburring hand tools or powered.
Good luck read the loading manuals and don't deviate from them till you have a clue as to what you are doing. Loads on the internet are for the rifle they are shot in. Your rifle is different and may blow up in your face if you run an over pressure load with a less volume case in a warmer temperature.
A powder trickler is a must also.
You will need a case trimming tool at some point and that adds the choices for the deburring hand tools or powered.
Good luck read the loading manuals and don't deviate from them till you have a clue as to what you are doing. Loads on the internet are for the rifle they are shot in. Your rifle is different and may blow up in your face if you run an over pressure load with a less volume case in a warmer temperature.
Likely this has already been discussed but i did a brief search and could not identify a consensus.....which is the preferred (most uniform, best quality) brass for reloading the 6.5 Creedmoor...i've seen Lapua, Peterson, Starline, Nosler, Hornady, ADG and i bet there are others.
The reason i ask is that when i started reloading another caliber i used a jumble of different brass till i learned from this forum the importance of uniformity in brass
thank you
The reason i ask is that when i started reloading another caliber i used a jumble of different brass till i learned from this forum the importance of uniformity in brass
thank you
New to 6.5c so I don't have a bunch of different components yet. But shot a few groups with what I have.
Howa 24" heavy barrel @100
Howa 24" heavy barrel @100
Hey guys.
I have a 22" Lithgow LA102 in 6.5 Creedmoor, and I've gotten some components together for my first reloads. I haven't necessarily picked and chosen the components, they've more or less just fallen in place for me. So just looking for some advice and thoughts. Here's what I've got so far:
Brass: Once fired Hornady (out of my rifle).
Projectiles: Sierra Match King 120gn (I originally was only looking at 140-142 gns but my old man gave me these so gonna use 'em first).
Powder: H4350 / AR2209 (Was looking at this all along for a 140gn bullet but not sure how it'll perform with the lighter bullet).
I still need to get my primers, to which end I'm looking primarily at CCI. I'm just curious how you guys think the 4350 powder will run with the projectile, and how the 120gn pill will fare in the 22" barrel.
Also, big question here: if I do load development with these 120gn bullets and 4350, and I switch to a different projectile later will the nodes be similar projectile to projectile with the same barrel or powder or will it be completely different?
Cheers. Will keep updated on progress as I go.
EDIT: Forgot to mention barrel is 6 grooves, 1:8" twist.
I have a 22" Lithgow LA102 in 6.5 Creedmoor, and I've gotten some components together for my first reloads. I haven't necessarily picked and chosen the components, they've more or less just fallen in place for me. So just looking for some advice and thoughts. Here's what I've got so far:
Brass: Once fired Hornady (out of my rifle).
Projectiles: Sierra Match King 120gn (I originally was only looking at 140-142 gns but my old man gave me these so gonna use 'em first).
Powder: H4350 / AR2209 (Was looking at this all along for a 140gn bullet but not sure how it'll perform with the lighter bullet).
I still need to get my primers, to which end I'm looking primarily at CCI. I'm just curious how you guys think the 4350 powder will run with the projectile, and how the 120gn pill will fare in the 22" barrel.
Also, big question here: if I do load development with these 120gn bullets and 4350, and I switch to a different projectile later will the nodes be similar projectile to projectile with the same barrel or powder or will it be completely different?
Cheers. Will keep updated on progress as I go.
EDIT: Forgot to mention barrel is 6 grooves, 1:8" twist.
Last edited:
Rule of thumb for reloading... change a component, redo development. Based off Hodgdons web data, say you find a good load at 44.0 grains with the 120 grain. You are now way over max for the 140.
Yep, fair point. Ah well, will be interesting seeing how it comes together anyway. Might be a decent match load.
Nothing wrong with the 120’s. Many run them. I too have a 123 ELD load that shoots very well. I only switched to the 140’s as they went on sale and bought a few thousand.
Shoot what you have, then change when they’re out if you want.
Shoot what you have, then change when they’re out if you want.
I’ve read through most of the pages here and think I have my answer, but I’d like to ask my question anyways.
I developed a load for my 6.5CM with Hornady 140gr ELDM, 41.9gr H4350 with CCI450, 2.224BTO,going about 2780fps. It always shot lights out.
I couldn’t find anymore of those projectiles in stock so I bought 500 Berger 140gr VLD Target. This morning I did a .2gr ladder from 41.0 to 42.0gr H4350, same seating depth, same primers as before. Every load shot like absolute dog shit. Like 2MOA at 100y. Unacceptable. I rechecked my gun, scope, mounts, and it’s all as before.
From reading some recipes on here it seems like maybe if I push these into the mid-42gr maybe even 43gr range I may have better results with this bullet/powder combo. There wasn’t any pressure signs at 42gr so I know I’m safe going higher, but I was just very surprised my normal load range with a similar bullet was so poor.
My barrel has just over 2,500 rounds through so it’s possible it could be done, but it was still shooting good with the 140gr ELDMs before I ran out.
Any input is appreciated!
I developed a load for my 6.5CM with Hornady 140gr ELDM, 41.9gr H4350 with CCI450, 2.224BTO,going about 2780fps. It always shot lights out.
I couldn’t find anymore of those projectiles in stock so I bought 500 Berger 140gr VLD Target. This morning I did a .2gr ladder from 41.0 to 42.0gr H4350, same seating depth, same primers as before. Every load shot like absolute dog shit. Like 2MOA at 100y. Unacceptable. I rechecked my gun, scope, mounts, and it’s all as before.
From reading some recipes on here it seems like maybe if I push these into the mid-42gr maybe even 43gr range I may have better results with this bullet/powder combo. There wasn’t any pressure signs at 42gr so I know I’m safe going higher, but I was just very surprised my normal load range with a similar bullet was so poor.
My barrel has just over 2,500 rounds through so it’s possible it could be done, but it was still shooting good with the 140gr ELDMs before I ran out.
Any input is appreciated!
I shoot two 6.5 Creed’s, one chambered for 130vld’s and the other with a SAMMI chamber i shoot 140 vld’s. Both usually give me groups around 3/8” at 100yds if I’m having a good shooting day.
The 140’s are loaded with 42.8 gr. of H4350 with twenty thousandth jump. I won’t give you the BTO measurement because that varies by up to about 30 thousandth depending on which of the comparators I use but the OAL is 2.872.
i wouldn’t give up on the vld’s but at 2,500 rounds the barrel might be thinking about retirement.
good luck.
Last edited:
I appreciate the input.
I measured my lands and they’ve eroded .06”!
Also there’s no way for me to get any closer to the lands than .08” because of mag length, yes .08”.
this is a Seekins Havak pro Hp1. Looks like it’s time to start looking for a new barrel instead of chasing this load and wasting time and components.
Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle
VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle.
bergerbullets.com
Not sure if you have read this article but it has some guidance on VLD seating depth.
