6.5 Grendel v .300 Blackout

[newguy2k3v2]

I'd say Grendel can do more things well than any other round from an ar-15. Factory 123gr does 2275-2300 from 12.5 Lilja and BA barrels
Biggest cons I see are feeding/magazine issues which not everyone has them though.

6.8 can be pushed harder and give more energy inside 400 or so, barrel length being equal. Mag situation seems better. Lots of hunting bullet and factory ammo options.

300blk makes sense vs anything else in <10" barrels and 200yds and in. It's cheap and easy to take up and reload for people already invested in 5.56 and 30cal. To me the subsonic ability is more fun/gimicky than practical.

 

[5RWill]

Then 6.8 SPC is your cartridge for about a dozen different reasons. Not going to even get into it here, the Grendel fanatics will smell the blood in the water and start posting page after page of 500 yard to 1500 yard software stats despite you saying 100 to 300 yards.

-Stooxie

I'm not a fanatic and will just disagree respectfully. Less i'm missing something 12.5" SPC can push a 110gr .277 projectile at 2300ish? Case capacity is roughly the same OAL is roughly the same, the only real draw back with the grendel seems to be the x39 case taper and needing mags for it. From a reloading standpoint i'm just not sure what the 6.8 spc offers over the 6.5 grendel again less i'm missing something? I've seen someone post this argument before but didn't elaborate on why i would be better off with the SPC. What am i missing? I'd rather have the 123gr or 129gr SST at 2300 than a 110gr round at 2300. The SPC does have the 145gr ELD-X but it's unlikely it can be pushed to any decent speed at that barrel length, less i'm severely underestimating the benefits of reloading for it.

FWIW this is the hide not ARF i doubt they'll come after you lol.

 

[Stooxie]

FWIW this is the hide not ARF i doubt they'll come after you lol.

That's true, I should give this place more credit! ?

-Stooxie

 

[Constructor]

I'm not a fanatic and will just disagree respectfully. Less i'm missing something 12.5" SPC can push a 110gr .277 projectile at 2300ish? Case capacity is roughly the same OAL is roughly the same, the only real draw back with the grendel seems to be the x39 case taper and needing mags for it. From a reloading standpoint i'm just not sure what the 6.8 spc offers over the 6.5 grendel again less i'm missing something? I've seen someone post this argument before but didn't elaborate on why i would be better off with the SPC. What am i missing? I'd rather have the 123gr or 129gr SST at 2300 than a 110gr round at 2300. The SPC does have the 145gr ELD-X but it's unlikely it can be pushed to any decent speed at that barrel length, less i'm severely underestimating the benefits of reloading for it.

FWIW this is the hide not ARF i doubt they'll come after you lol.

The 6.8 will propel the same weight bullet out of the same length barrel 100fps faster than the Grendel. It's right on Hornadys website, the only thing you need to notice is fps on a Grendel(123sst at 2580) is from a 24" barrel and from the 6.8(120sst at 2460) it was shot out of a 16" barrel. There is roughly 200 fps difference between a 16 and 24" barrel.

 

[5RWill]

The 6.8 will propel the same weight bullet out of the same length barrel 100fps faster than the Grendel. It's right on Hornadys website, the only thing you need to notice is fps on a Grendel(123sst at 2580) is from a 24" barrel and from the 6.8(120sst at 2460) it was shot out of a 16" barrel. There is roughly 200 fps difference between a 16 and 24" barrel.

When i looked at 12.5" chrono results it sure didn't seem that way. Though admittedly they were factory rounds. 12.5" 110gr 6.8 spc was a hair over 2300 while the 123gr SST was at 2300 with the grendel. You're saying reloading you can take advantage of slightly more case capacity? It's literally equal to 1.9gr more H20 capacity. The only bullet i'd want to run with the 6.8 SPC is the 145gr ELD X which getting again getting that bullet weight to those speeds in either case would be difficult.

SSA Ammo Chrono Data 16" & 12.5"

Attached is a summary of data collected from my chronograph today at the Montgomery County Shooting Complex near Clarksville, TN, elevation approx. 600 ft. MSL. I couldn't get my post to look like a table, so I attached it as a pdf file (jpeg versions looked goofy so went with a PDF). I shot...

68forums.com

95gr TTSX and 120gr SST velocities from 12.5" 6.8

Made it to the range today to do a little chrono work. I have been using the Barnes 95r TTSX for about 4 years and I have been thinking of switching to the Hornady 120r SST. What has kept me from changing over is the fact that I run 12.5” barrels and didn’t know how the velocities would be. I...

lonestarboars.com

Is reloading where the 6.8 can really stretch it's legs?

 

[Stooxie]

When i looked at 12.5" chrono results it sure didn't seem that way. Though admittedly they were factory rounds. 12.5" 110gr 6.8 spc was a hair over 2300 while the 123gr SST was at 2300 with the grendel. You're saying reloading you can take advantage of slightly more case capacity? It's literally equal to 1.9gr more H20 capacity. The only bullet i'd want to run with the 6.8 SPC is the 145gr ELD X which getting again getting that bullet weight to those speeds in either case would be difficult.

It's like a disease, the only numbers that ever get quoted for 6.8 are SSA's anemic loads. Literally one of a dozen manufacturers. Please take a look at Federal Fusion, Hornady SST, or S&B if you want a sample of much faster factory loads.

We've been around the block 1000 times on this on various forums. 6.8 SSA fart loads get compared to someone's hotter-than-hell 6.5G hand loads. No matter how much chrono data you post, the G can never lose. It's like Democrats saying Trump is guilty. Nothing you say changes it.

-Stooxie

 

[Constructor]

When i looked at 12.5" chrono results it sure didn't seem that way. Though admittedly they were factory rounds. 12.5" 110gr 6.8 spc was a hair over 2300 while the 123gr SST was at 2300 with the grendel. You're saying reloading you can take advantage of slightly more case capacity? It's literally equal to 1.9gr more H20 capacity. The only bullet i'd want to run with the 6.8 SPC is the 145gr ELD X which getting again getting that bullet weight to those speeds in either case would be difficult.

SSA Ammo Chrono Data 16" & 12.5"

Attached is a summary of data collected from my chronograph today at the Montgomery County Shooting Complex near Clarksville, TN, elevation approx. 600 ft. MSL. I couldn't get my post to look like a table, so I attached it as a pdf file (jpeg versions looked goofy so went with a PDF). I shot...

68forums.com

95gr TTSX and 120gr SST velocities from 12.5" 6.8

Made it to the range today to do a little chrono work. I have been using the Barnes 95r TTSX for about 4 years and I have been thinking of switching to the Hornady 120r SST. What has kept me from changing over is the fact that I run 12.5” barrels and didn’t know how the velocities would be. I...

lonestarboars.com

Is reloading where the 6.8 can really stretch it's legs?

First off unless you want to fool yourself use comparable bullets. I see people comparing 90g flat base 6.8 loads to 123gr boat tails out of a Grendel to prove the Grendel shoots flatter. That is only fooling idiots. Hornady makes ammo for both the 6.8 and 6.5 and similar weight bullets, they load to the same percentage of max factory safe operating pressure. All of the info is there on their site for all to see. The one thing Hornady failed to do was test both out of the same length barrel.
As for reloading yes the 6.8 can handle the pressure and gain even more velocity over the Grendel. As far back as 2007 we were shooting 110gr bullets at 2800 out of 16" barrels. 120s around 2650.

 

[5RWill]

It's like a disease, the only numbers that ever get quoted for 6.8 are SSA's anemic loads. Literally one of a dozen manufacturers. Please take a look at Federal Fusion, Hornady SST, or S&B if you want a sample of much faster factory loads.

We've been around the block 1000 times on this on various forums. 6.8 SSA fart loads get compared to someone's hotter-than-hell 6.5G hand loads. No matter how much chrono data you post, the G can never lose. It's like Democrats saying Trump is guilty. Nothing you say changes it.

-Stooxie

Noone has posted any 6.8 spc data with similar bullet weight/BC to prove otherwise, which is why i've been googling. Literally 2nd link is handloads of 120gr SST and it's right there with the grendel in the 2300s. Both at 12.5" of course. Which is why i proposed the question of reloads stretching the 6.8s legs, because to attain BC comparable for the 6.8 i gotta go 130-145gr.

First off unless you want to fool yourself use comparable bullets. I see people comparing 90g flat base 6.8 loads to 123gr boat tails out of a Grendel to prove the Grendel shoots flatter. That is only fooling idiots. Hornady makes ammo for both the 6.8 and 6.5 and similar weight bullets, they load to the same percentage of max factory safe operating pressure. All of the info is there on their site for all to see. The one thing Hornady failed to do was test both out of the same length barrel.
As for reloading yes the 6.8 can handle the pressure and gain even more velocity over the Grendel. As far back as 2007 we were shooting 110gr bullets at 2800 out of 16" barrels. 120s around 2650.

Is that not what i linked to? Both what i could find quick googling 120gr range with somewhat comparable weight/BC to the 123gr 6.5 out of a 12.5" barrel length. 12.5" will be the length i go with regardless of caliber chosen. Don't want a javelin once the can is on. What realistically could you expect from say a 145gr ELD-X from that barrel length?

Think i could squeeze an extra 100fps or so out of the 130s in a 6.8 over 130s/129 in the grendel?

 

[Jmccracken1214]

How do the comparing loads look at 400-500 yards? Like the G and 308.. 308 is always faster at the muzzle but 400 out, it’s slower than the G

 

[XLR308]

I'm not a fanatic and will just disagree respectfully. Less i'm missing something 12.5" SPC can push a 110gr .277 projectile at 2300ish? Case capacity is roughly the same OAL is roughly the same, the only real draw back with the grendel seems to be the x39 case taper and needing mags for it. From a reloading standpoint i'm just not sure what the 6.8 spc offers over the 6.5 grendel again less i'm missing something? I've seen someone post this argument before but didn't elaborate on why i would be better off with the SPC. What am i missing? I'd rather have the 123gr or 129gr SST at 2300 than a 110gr round at 2300. The SPC does have the 145gr ELD-X but it's unlikely it can be pushed to any decent speed at that barrel length, less i'm severely underestimating the benefits of reloading for it.

FWIW this is the hide not ARF i doubt they'll come after you lol.

I think it just really comes down to what you want to do with it and like anything else picking the best tool for the task at hand.
Both are very capable when used in the primary role most of us choose them for which is hunting inside of 350 yards.
Just as a data point my 68spc 120sst load with AR-COMP out of a 20" ARP barrel averages 2730fps.

 

[Constructor]

How do the comparing loads look at 400-500 yards? Like the G and 308.. 308 is always faster at the muzzle but 400 out, it’s slower than the G

That depends on the bullets chosen. Most Grendel guys will choose the best possible bullet for the Grendel and then choose a flat based poor performing bullet for the 308. Try a .308 155gr Berger Hybrid or Hornady ELD using similar length barrels.

 

[Constructor]

Noone has posted any 6.8 spc data with similar bullet weight/BC to prove otherwise, which is why i've been googling. Literally 2nd link is handloads of 120gr SST and it's right there with the grendel in the 2300s. Both at 12.5" of course. Which is why i proposed the question of reloads stretching the 6.8s legs, because to attain BC comparable for the 6.8 i gotta go 130-145gr.



Is that not what i linked to? Both what i could find quick googling 120gr range with somewhat comparable weight/BC to the 123gr 6.5 out of a 12.5" barrel length. 12.5" will be the length i go with regardless of caliber chosen. Don't want a javelin once the can is on. What realistically could you expect from say a 145gr ELD-X from that barrel length?

Think i could squeeze an extra 100fps or so out of the 130s in a 6.8 over 130s/129 in the grendel?

You can't use a 145eld-x, the bullet is too long. A Berger 130 Classic Hunter is about as long as you can use in a 6.8 and it still fit in the mag. 2450-2475 out of a 12.5" .
A Grendel will only push a 123gr to around 2550-2600max with hot handloads out of a 20" barrel, 200fps less with a 12.5" barrel 2350-2400 and notice that is using a bullet that is 7gr lighter. If you choose a 130 for the Grendel you will loose another 70fps.
A 6.8 130 Berger has apx the same BC as a 6.5 123gr ELD.
One other thing to consider, when bullets slow down to the point they will not expand that is really the max effective range. Big heavy 6.5s made for a 260 Rem or 6.5 x55 may not expand very well shot out of a slower Grendel.
BTW I'm not getting figures from google, I've been shooting both the G and 6.8 since 2005.

 

[5RWill]

You can't use a 145eld-x, the bullet is too long. A Berger 130 Classic Hunter is about as long as you can use in a 6.8 and it still fit in the mag. 2450-2475 out of a 12.5" .
A Grendel will only push a 123gr to around 2550-2600max with hot handloads out of a 20" barrel, 200fps less with a 12.5" barrel 2350-2400 and notice that is using a bullet that is 7gr lighter. If you choose a 130 for the Grendel you will loose another 70fps.
A 6.8 130 Berger has apx the same BC as a 6.5 123gr ELD.
One other thing to consider, when bullets slow down to the point they will not expand that is really the max effective range. Big heavy 6.5s made for a 260 Rem or 6.5 x55 may not expand very well shot out of a slower Grendel.
BTW I'm not getting figures from google, I've been shooting both the G and 6.8 since 2005.

That is certainly more appealing. What's a good barrel supplier for a 12.5" 6.8 SPC? Don't wanna have to grab a blank and turn it down as i'm not looking to spend that much. That is the argument i've been looking for, that's solid results worth considering 6.8 spc over the 6.5G considering what i'm doing.

 

[AEROMechanic]

L

You're retarted
12.5" Grendel 123s @2330
16" Blackout 110s @2400

Bigger hole more faster more better

And that's probably reloading for the 6.5 short and weak. Everyone likes to compare their wonder cartridge with hot reloads to mild accurate factory ammo for the competitor

Less penetration with the BO. BC's matter

 

[AEROMechanic]

Then 6.8 SPC is your cartridge for about a dozen different reasons. Not going to even get into it here, the Grendel fanatics will smell the blood in the water and start posting page after page of 500 yard to 1500 yard software stats despite you saying 100 to 300 yards.

-Stooxie

I'm a Grendel guy and I disagree with your above statement. If he's only shooting 100-300 yards then 5.56/.300 BO/6.8SPC/6.5 Grendel are going to kill whatever you're shooting at, equally as dead. So with that being said you might as well stay with 5.56 shooting heavies (75-77gr).

 

[346ci]

That is certainly more appealing. What's a good barrel supplier for a 12.5" 6.8 SPC? Don't wanna have to grab a blank and turn it down as i'm not looking to spend that much. That is the argument i've been looking for, that's solid results worth considering 6.8 spc over the 6.5G considering what i'm doing.

12.5" 6.8 3R 11 twist pistol barrel-

He has a 5R in stainless also.

 

[LWS43]

im new to this forum and new to the 6.5 Grendel but am NOT new to killing deer. I do crop damage shooting every year and kill on an average of 50 deer a year. Ive killed them with everything from a 556 to a 300 ultra mag. When I hear someone claiming a round like this is a capable 500 yard deer killer I cringe! You don't even have a 243 and even that is marginal for 300 yard deer. 400 is "doable" with a 2506 or 240 wby 270 o6 ect. 400 is a LONG shot on living game and in my opinion is where you should be stepping up to a 257mag 7 mag ect and 500 is 30 cal mag time. These are living animals and don't deserve to just be eventually killed they deserve a quick humane death. To me the absolute max id shoot at a living animal with a Grendel is 250 yards and that might even be a stretch. I shot 3 deer this year at a 100-200 yards with a bo using 110 barnes bullets and yup it killed all three but all of them left the field and needed tracking. Id have to guess that 3/4s of the guys that recommend it have never done it and probably haven't killed more then a half a dozen deer in there lives. I guess the mail question id ask them is WHY? Don't you have a gun better suited to long range deer KILLING. Does it make you feel somehow more skilled because you can use a pop gun to kill deer at 500 yards. Maybe you should consider a 22lr! Statues would be built! Grendel is a neat little round. As is the Bo but out past 250 yards use them on paper deer. The real ones would appreciate it.

 

[deersniper]

Lolol^

50 what is that a hobby farm?
243 not good enough for a 300 yard deer? Lolol. There’s a guy here who smokes tons of deer out to 600 with a 556.

lol 500 yards = 30 mag time. Lol

 

[hlee]

"243 deer wounder." That's what it's called around here. Of course, 'round here, keepin' most of them on a paper plate at 100 is good 'nuf.

Know your limitations, they're greater than that of your gear. Don't make me conjure @coldboremiracle and his 6.5 creedmoor elk kills...

Out to 300y, on white tailed deer, petty much any common centerfire cartridge is sufficient.

 

[Constructor]

Lolol^

There’s a guy here who smokes tons of deer out to 600 with a 556.

I'll bet he's an operator too, UFC champ, has tons of good looking girlfriends...irresponsible is what he is..IF it's even true.

 

[coldboremiracle]

im new to this forum and new to the 6.5 Grendel but am NOT new to killing deer. I do crop damage shooting every year and kill on an average of 50 deer a year. Ive killed them with everything from a 556 to a 300 ultra mag. When I hear someone claiming a round like this is a capable 500 yard deer killer I cringe! You don't even have a 243 and even that is marginal for 300 yard deer. 400 is "doable" with a 2506 or 240 wby 270 o6 ect. 400 is a LONG shot on living game and in my opinion is where you should be stepping up to a 257mag 7 mag ect and 500 is 30 cal mag time. These are living animals and don't deserve to just be eventually killed they deserve a quick humane death. To me the absolute max id shoot at a living animal with a Grendel is 250 yards and that might even be a stretch. I shot 3 deer this year at a 100-200 yards with a bo using 110 barnes bullets and yup it killed all three but all of them left the field and needed tracking. Id have to guess that 3/4s of the guys that recommend it have never done it and probably haven't killed more then a half a dozen deer in there lives. I guess the mail question id ask them is WHY? Don't you have a gun better suited to long range deer KILLING. Does it make you feel somehow more skilled because you can use a pop gun to kill deer at 500 yards. Maybe you should consider a 22lr! Statues would be built! Grendel is a neat little round. As is the Bo but out past 250 yards use them on paper deer. The real ones would appreciate it.

you must have some tough deer, we kill elk and deer every year from 300yds to 1000yds with 260's, 6.5cm's and lately 25CM. Havent hunted with a 30cal for a long time.

 

[Strykervet]

Take the Winchester .351 this ammo was produced for over 60 years. In a fun to shoot Winchester 1907. People liked it when it was made at the turn of the century. It was used mostly by prison guards on deer, and gangsters. It was the shit at the time. Does not mean it will last. I would bet you can't find 6.5 Grendel on the shells of 1/2 the small town guns stores in America. And I would bet that ammo manufactures don't produce this ammo for more then 10 years. Time will tell.

Rich L

They've been making it for fifteen already dude...

When there's a better all around cartridge made, I suppose it'll go away. But that "better" cartridge is just gonna be some other variant of 6 or 6.5 anyway. A lot of us that got into in the first place load anyway so we don't really give a shit who carries what.

Blackout is about the best SBR and suppressed round ever made, if not THE best. Supers retain near AK performance from an 8"bbl. and subs using the high BC 220's retain velocity at ranges generally beyond what you typically would use 'em for.

Neither one is going anywhere.

If you SBR the 6.5G you wind up with a very soft shooter spitting 120's at about 2000fps or so. It's fun, but the BLK is the more serious choice for SBR'ing IMO --slightly fatter 115's moving a bit faster are still better terminal wise.

For a 20" tack driver, the Grendle has no peers in the small frame world as far as I know.

There are a lot of new wildcats out there too, if you handload just find one with a popular parent case and let these storebought guys deal with the fuck fuck games, semantics and pissing contests. .350 Legend or Raptor or one of those comes to mind, so does .338BLK, but whichever one holds 15 rounds or more, has damn near Grendel velocity, SOCOM weights and a common parent case... They're out there, they're coming, and some will be popular.

Beowulf, now THERE'S an oddball --a round made for a different time, the bullshit Clinton ban. Everything was going big bore low cap or compact same cap. It ended. Beowulf also got lots of competitors when it came out (they all do, which doesn't help a round becoming popular at all). Beowulf is a very nice round, a 100m sledgehammer. But they still make ammo for it too, again, not that I really care since I load my own.

BTW, if anything, over the last several years many companies have stepped up to produce components and FWIW, some small Euro country is in the process of adopting the Grendel so...

 

[LWS43]

kind of figured what this place was. A bunch of maul nijas. Ive been loading and shooting for 45 years. I shoot a 1000 rounds a week on average between handguns and rifles. Cast my own bullets for all my handgun and some rifle. Been doing that for 40 years. I have more then what you have in your new sliverado in my loading room. No doubt have shot more deer then any 10 of you here. One thing I definitely have that's lacking here is respect for the animals I kill. Among my friends I can list John Linebaugh, Hamilton bowen, John Taffin and many more. 8 years in the military to boot. Aint my first rodeo children. So put on your camos and paint your face and pretend you actually joined the army and had the guts to be a real sniper. Im out of here!

 

[bobke]

LWS
And we won’t miss you either....

 

[coyotewillie]

This...is...HILARIOUS! You guys got trolled back in 2014, and it's going to continue into 2020! Classic!! Keep them replies coming fellas, don't let it die now!!!

 

[deersniper]

kind of figured what this place was. A bunch of maul nijas. Ive been loading and shooting for 45 years. I shoot a 1000 rounds a week on average between handguns and rifles. Cast my own bullets for all my handgun and some rifle. Been doing that for 40 years. I have more then what you have in your new sliverado in my loading room. No doubt have shot more deer then any 10 of you here. One thing I definitely have that's lacking here is respect for the animals I kill. Among my friends I can list John Linebaugh, Hamilton bowen, John Taffin and many more. 8 years in the military to boot. Aint my first rodeo children. So put on your camos and paint your face and pretend you actually joined the army and had the guts to be a real sniper. Im out of here!

Lmao.

Yeah
None of us know how to shoot
None of us have killed piles of game
None of us have $$$$ into rifles ammo support equipment and training.


Maybe open your eyes/mind a little. You might learn something

 

[coldboremiracle]

kind of figured what this place was. A bunch of maul nijas.

It must be a beautiful view from up in your tower. Someday I hope to leave my facepaint and ninja outfit, sell my Sliverado, and kill more deer than anybody else on the internets.

 

[Constructor]

I'm not a fanatic and will just disagree respectfully. Less i'm missing something 12.5" SPC can push a 110gr .277 projectile at 2300ish? Case capacity is roughly the same OAL is roughly the same, the only real draw back with the grendel seems to be the x39 case taper and needing mags for it. From a reloading standpoint i'm just not sure what the 6.8 spc offers over the 6.5 grendel again less i'm missing something? I've seen someone post this argument before but didn't elaborate on why i would be better off with the SPC. What am i missing? I'd rather have the 123gr or 129gr SST at 2300 than a 110gr round at 2300. The SPC does have the 145gr ELD-X but it's unlikely it can be pushed to any decent speed at that barrel length, less i'm severely underestimating the benefits of reloading for it.

FWIW this is the hide not ARF i doubt they'll come after you lol.

The 6.8 will push the same weight bullets out of the same length barrel apx 100fps faster than the Grendel with factory(120-123gr) loads, Hornady shows that right on their website. The 6.8 can be hand loaded to higher pressures without the cases swelling or bolts breaking so we can push a 110gr to 2750 out of a 16" without problems. A 12.5" will push a 120 to 2400 with factory loads depending on the barrel, some are 60-90fps faster than others.
The Grendel will push a 123 to apx 2500 out of a 20" and 2300 out of a 12.5.
The 6.8 has more hunting bullets that will expand at the velocity the 6.8 can push them. Many of the 6.5 bullets were made for ther 260 or 6.5x55 and will not expand at the slower velocity and longer ranges out of the Grendel. I started shooting a 6.5CSS(Grendel before AA got involved)in 2005 and there weren't really any bullets that would expand except for some 90gr varmint bullets. The 120 TSX would expand at 100 yds but barely opened at 200. Now the Cavity Back bullets are probably the best for expansion and terminal performance, 123 sst works, the LRX may or may not expand if you hit a bone good chance if between the ribs more than likely it will just poke a hole at 300yds.

 

[deersniper]

View attachment 7207922
It must be a beautiful view from up in your tower. Someday I hope to leave my facepaint and ninja outfit, sell my Sliverado, and kill more deer than anybody else on the internets.

^ is that lowlight dresses up?

 

[coldboremiracle]

^ is that lowlight dresses up?

No, too tall.

 

[BurnOut]

I did a fair amount of work analyzing the differences between 6.5G and 6.8 SPC a few years back, and the 16" (the build that I was planning at the time) performance of the two was similar enough that the slight short/medium range (for hunting with this type of round) advantage of the 6.8 wasn't enough for me to justify adding yet another cartridge to the collection (at the time, I already had a 20" 6.5G set up for 500+ yard use). The dies, the magazines, and the brass that I have for the 20" gun can pull double duty with my 16" lightweight hunting setup, and the convenience of that is, to me, worth the difference in muzzle velocity.

 

[TACC]

Interesting info, to say the least.

I own both calibers, but have yet to shoot an animal with either up to this point.

 

[steve123]

At sub 300Y, with a 12.5" barrel, I wouldn't be concerned with either 6.8 or 6.5, small differences. Longer barrel and farther out, of the two, 6.5 of course.

Only 2500-ish out of 2 barrels in 6mmART40 and 6mmFatRat and haven't experienced either, broken bolts, case bulge, or poor brass life with Lapua brass, with warm to hot loads???

Subs, 300BO is king, that's it's initial intent. Anyway you look at it, no loading with any bullet does well at longer distances. I was disappointed at how much all the bullets I tested blew in the wind farther out. Only appeal to me was subs and suppressor.

New kid on the block, 350 Legend > Getting iffy by 300Y but certainly superior to 300BO in a medium length barrel, and there are subsonic loads.
350L Gonna hit hard on hogs closer in with good penetration with 180's. Might be worth looking into.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Sub's, 300BO is king, that's it's initial intent.

I used to think that, then I started shooting 400gr+ bullets from my 450BM.

 

[Yondering]

Subs, 300BO is king, that's it's initial intent.

No, that wasn't the initial purpose for the 300 Blk, nor is it king in that role.

People keep repeating that, and it may be the only appeal to you, but the initial intent was essentially 7.62x39 ballistics in a small AR package, and it does that very well.

The vast majority of late adopters seem to be very poorly informed about the 300 Blk and what it's good for, hence stuff like the frequent comments about it being mostly good for subsonics.

 

[steve123]

No, that wasn't the initial purpose for the 300 Blk, nor is it king in that role.

People keep repeating that, and it may be the only appeal to you, but the initial intent was essentially 7.62x39 ballistics in a small AR package, and it does that very well.

The vast majority of late adopters seem to be very poorly informed about the 300 Blk and what it's good for, hence stuff like the frequent comments about it being mostly good for subsonics.

I'll concede halfway.

Below - Copied and pasted from an American Rifleman article with a brief history on 300BO;

"A request for proposal (RFP) was issued for the new round to see what the mad scientists out in the firearms industry could develop. And, as an added layer of complexity on the requirements, the RFP proposed that the round be developed in """both sub-sonic"""" (for suppressed use) as well as supersonic loadings. AAC took the challenge, and the 300 BLK was born".

Okay, maybe 'king" wasn't the best wording, most popular??

 

[deersniper]

Pretty sure 300blk is just a standardized copy of 300 whisper.

And good for them for doing that and giving whisper the breakout and support it needed

 

[Yondering]

I'll concede halfway.

Below - Copied and pasted from an American Rifleman article with a brief history on 300BO;

"A request for proposal (RFP) was issued for the new round to see what the mad scientists out in the firearms industry could develop. And, as an added layer of complexity on the requirements, the RFP proposed that the round be developed in """both sub-sonic"""" (for suppressed use) as well as supersonic loadings. AAC took the challenge, and the 300 BLK was born".

Okay, maybe 'king" wasn't the best wording, most popular??

Yes that is correct, it was always intended as a dual purpose round, which is why it has the fast twist rate for heavy bullets, but if you look at the early literature about it, the approximation of 7.62x39 ballistics are a major part of the selling points.

Here is an excellent source of info (the forum in general, but specifically this post by Silvers) with far more useful and accurate info than any magazine article: http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73274

Also, this presentation from the early days of the 300 is a good starting point that any enthusast of the Blackout should read: https://www.slideshare.net/HassanSakha/the-300-aac-blackout-low-visibility-carbine

 

[Docsherm]

kind of figured what this place was. A bunch of maul nijas. Ive been loading and shooting for 45 years. I shoot a 1000 rounds a week on average between handguns and rifles. Cast my own bullets for all my handgun and some rifle. Been doing that for 40 years. I have more then what you have in your new sliverado in my loading room. No doubt have shot more deer then any 10 of you here. One thing I definitely have that's lacking here is respect for the animals I kill. Among my friends I can list John Linebaugh, Hamilton bowen, John Taffin and many more. 8 years in the military to boot. Aint my first rodeo children. So put on your camos and paint your face and pretend you actually joined the army and had the guts to be a real sniper. Im out of here!

I have no idea who you are addressing but, shooting 1000 rounds a week means nothing. A monkey can f@ck a football for 40 years.... doesn't mean that he knows what he is doing.

Who cares about killing deer or cheap *SS Chevy trucks?

 

[Snuby642]

I have 300 blk in bolt and sbr and reload for them.

Subs with a can are an absolute riot to shoot, good training tool as well.

6.5g nice also reload for it , light recoil accurate, fun as well.

Would not give up either.

 

[Snuby642]

kind of figured what this place was. A bunch of maul nijas. Ive been loading and shooting for 45 years. I shoot a 1000 rounds a week on average between handguns and rifles. Cast my own bullets for all my handgun and some rifle. Been doing that for 40 years. I have more then what you have in your new sliverado in my loading room. No doubt have shot more deer then any 10 of you here. One thing I definitely have that's lacking here is respect for the animals I kill. Among my friends I can list John Linebaugh, Hamilton bowen, John Taffin and many more. 8 years in the military to boot. Aint my first rodeo children. So put on your camos and paint your face and pretend you actually joined the army and had the guts to be a real sniper. Im out of here!

You sound like a drunken toddler .

 

[Downtown]

Some people have the most interesting ways of introducing themselves. All that in just two posts. Do you suppose LWS45 would speak like that in real life, bragging and insulting, minutes after meeting new people and joining a conversation?

 

[Yondering]

Some people have the most interesting ways of introducing themselves. All that in just two posts. Do you suppose LWS45 would speak like that in real life, bragging and insulting, minutes after meeting new people and joining a conversation?

Nobody who's actually done what he claims would feel the need to act that way.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

As I said above; my choice has been the 6.5 Grendel in a longer set of barrels, 20" and 24".

I chose the 6.5G because I could not afford to choose what I really wanted, the 260Rem. What I wanted was a 6.5 semi that had some reach and also had a potential for some precision. Short range and subsonics were never a part of my thinking. Obviously, the reach had to be about the same as the 5.56 AR-15 because the AR-15 was the choice I could afford, and because there's only room for so much chamber capacity in that platform. My intent is to use the 6.5G much like the 5.56, for near and midrange, but with somewhat greater authority.

My choice has come in at an affordable cost, and the initial performance is not at all distressing.

My shooting Buddy has both the 6.5G and the 300BLK. His goals are nearly diametrically opposed to mine; he's into subsonics, and his guns in this category are all quite short. He's happy with what he's got. Common to both our setups is the 6.5G. It's by far the more versatile of the two. Yes, I might need another upper in order to shoot the 6.5G subsonic, but the handloading capacity is already there, and I've got heavy 6.5 bullets available from the 260 reloading setup.

Personally, If I wanted to shoot a sub, I'd be using the 7.62x39. All I'd need is another Upper, appropriate mags, and a die set. My Dillon is already set up with the x39 base plate for the Grendel.

Greg

 

[steve123]

I have no idea who you are addressing but, shooting 1000 rounds a week means nothing. A monkey can f@ck a football for 40 years.... doesn't mean that he knows what he is doing.

Who cares about killing deer or cheap *SS Chevy trucks?

There's this other old guy local to me that is like this. He's got quite the reputation for being the biggest bullshitter in town.
Done and had everything, type of guy.
Literally told me when he was young he could see bullet holes in paper at 500Y, and with a straight face, lol. It was hard for me to hold my giggle back!
Anyway, he was the worst pistol shot at our match's, go figure. He had also started a reloading store, gave great prices on lead bullets at first then over time raised the prices so high we quit buying from him. I could go on and on....

 

[Swoodhouse19]

I recently joined the Grendel clan. 18" side charge upper. So far only shooting American Gunner 123's at around 2450 and it shoots pretty good....But plan to load 123's and some lead free stuff....anyone have some good loads I can try?

 

[hlee]

DISCLAIMER... Never use the load data from some random dipshit on the internet. Start low and work your way up. Know the signs of pressure. Reloading manuals are your friend.

IMR 8208-XBR is your bestie with the 6.5 Grendel. 27.7 grains is within the book specs, gets me 2550 FPS out of a 22 inch barrel, and doesn’t beat up brass. It’s also temp stable, so if you shoot where it is hot and cold, you may have fewer headaches than with CFE223.

 

[Thunderhorse]

6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC are close enough that I probably wouldn't a rifle in each unless I just wanted to-personally I wouldn't even get a new rifle, just an off the shelf conversion for my ACR. 6.8 has slightly better off the shelf ammo availability and a little better terminal ballistics at closer range, while the Grendel has slightly better external ballistics if you want to stretch out its range with handloads.

I don't see people comparing 7.62X39 to 6.5 or 6.8, so the original post is somewhat suspect; it seems as though OP just posted and let everyone else just start fighting over whether apples or watermelons are better. Does he hunt? Shoot with a can? If we assume yes and no respectively then Grendel probably makes sense for him.

.300 BO is a compromise cartridge; it is popular because it is an easy conversion that requires only a barrel, you don't need a new bolt, mags, lower, etc... It is pretty good for what it is, but if you look at the cartridge based on its own merit without assuming it is going to be shot out of an AR, then 9X39mm is a better round for switching between subs and supers-with both better terminal and external ballistics. Really if a rifle with an adjustable gas system was used instead of an AR, there would be plenty of rounds you could get reliable sub/super cycling with.

9X39mm much older than the .300 BO, it just hasn't been available in the US very long and its unlikely to become as popular due to conversions involving mags/bolt/lower/barrel, but we are starting to see some support for it.

So, not to add more fuel to the fire, but that will be my unpopular opinion for the day: 9X39mm > .300 BO.

 

[CxAgent]

I recently joined the Grendel clan. 18" side charge upper. So far only shooting American Gunner 123's at around 2450 and it shoots pretty good....But plan to load 123's and some lead free stuff....anyone have some good loads I can try?

The round that seems to shoot well in most 6.5 Grendel is the 120 SMK. On a different forum they mention 28 grains of 8208 xbr. I found in my Grendel 27.4 gave me .5 to .75 5 round groups. As always, start low and work up. From what I have read the 6.5 Grendel will be welll over pressure before you start seeing signs and the pressure will show up quick with 8202.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

The 9x39 probably isn't coming that far back anytime soon.

Something folks might want to look at in a subsonic may end up being based on the .350 Legend.

Check that out, think of it more in terms of a subsonic, and see if the concept has wings. The brass is commercial, and so much more of what might be needed is already on the shelf. Then, the straight wall allows longer bullets to be seated to order.

Greg