using the Hornady 100gr ELDM
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6.5 Grendel
- Thread starter padom
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very light wind . from the left shooting north.( note the shot placement on paper) when I went to the 400yd bong ,aiming center ,it was hitting center .
I don't want to hit the pin when shooting for grouping , that's why the paper group is off to the side of the pin.
ya but I have to try. it could be how deep the bullet is set , it could be 1/10 more or less powder it could be a new mark setting on the tuner could be the use of a different primer
Could just be me but 0.3g increments till I get a group, not a string iether direction as fast as is necessary.
Then I bracket the best one in 0.1g incraments .
Shoot them on one sheet each session and you can see the string go clover / round.
Then you can go to seating depth in 0.003 thousands or jump to tuning if you're in a hurry.
The tuner will fix the string to a degree but it will be a narrow node.
If you find a round node and tune it there will be a more stable group.
If you can do a seating depth test before you tune it will be even better .
My next load I’m trying to develop is using the 100grain VT from hornady. Same rifle, loaded the same brass and all, except I used LT-30 powder. I did a ladder test working past the “max” according to hornady published data. When I punch this data into GRT it says the max load is hardly reaching recommended pressure at hornady’s max and basically is saying I can run up to ~29.5 gr before reaching max pressure but I’m not so sure. Take a look at the velocity’s. I shot them in order from least to greatest. Started at 24.9 and finished at 27.6. What do yall think about the head of this brass? I’m not interested in conserving brass life, trying to get the most I can from this rifle in this cartridge. I’m also holding the brass in order, lowest grains starting in my left hand.
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I’d figure about 20 fps per inch of barrel, so would expect 2570ish in a 20” barrel. You above 28gr of TAC to get 2467 in a 14.5? I have a handful of 20” barrels of various manufacturers and get 2550 +\- 25fps depending on chamber and load specs, without stepping too hard on primer pockets. High 25’s to near 2600 starts getting hard on brass, bolts, etc. Doable, but consumable cost may bump as well.
Right it is pretty darn fast and I feel like that SD is excellent for a gas gun!?!
Yea 29.5 grains of TAC on the 123 SST.
I’m also contemplating trying the TAC on the lighter 100grain VT?
What do y’all think of the brass as far as signs of pressure? I want to push this 100 grain harder with the LT-30 also.
Yea 29.5 grains of TAC on the 123 SST.
I’m also contemplating trying the TAC on the lighter 100grain VT?
What do y’all think of the brass as far as signs of pressure? I want to push this 100 grain harder with the LT-30 also.
I mean, as far as what I think of the brass? I don't have an AR or shoot them so idk much but I'd say the brass looks decent.
If you want even more speed, go to leverevolution.
I'll be satisfied if I can get close to 2500 with that 123 bullet out of my bolt guns. One is an 18" and the other is a 20". I'll be loading them with TAC as well...
Some of your brass has ejector and extractor channel marks as well as firing pin rings. Grendel is a low pressure round. By the time you see things like this you are well past what is a normal operating pressure.
While you may get away with it for a while a broken bolt or worse is in your future. GRT and QL are both predictive tools and both of them require some tweaking to line up with reality on Grendel.
LT30/32 are both on the very fast side for Grendel, regardless of bullet weight. Your brass and/or primer pockets have been pushed pretty hard based on ejector marks, and ill advised use of very fast powders purely in the hunt for velocity has a predictable result. Stay in or above Benchmark or H335 burn rate for lightest bullet weights. TAC may be workable there as well as for 123’s, though I’d counsel sensible work ups in your barrel. You’re working near/above peak pressures, as has been noted.
Alright well I think I’ll load up some 100 gr with some TAC and see what that does.
Also, load 3&4 seemed to be a node, so I’ll also load a few in that range with some LT-30 and test it again. Brass didn’t seem too bad there. Those were just slightly high than book max.
I’m kinda thinking like you said, TAC being a slower burning powder may be much better in this situation because I’m loaded above well above book max and don’t see the same pressure signs on the brass as I do with the LT-30 and getting some good velocity.
Maybe I also need to pick up some Leverlution to try as well.
Any other suggestions to try?
Also, load 3&4 seemed to be a node, so I’ll also load a few in that range with some LT-30 and test it again. Brass didn’t seem too bad there. Those were just slightly high than book max.
I’m kinda thinking like you said, TAC being a slower burning powder may be much better in this situation because I’m loaded above well above book max and don’t see the same pressure signs on the brass as I do with the LT-30 and getting some good velocity.
Maybe I also need to pick up some Leverlution to try as well.
Any other suggestions to try?
Isn’t 8208 similar to BL-C2? I tried loading with BL-C2 and got pretty slow results.
I haven’t tried any VV yet. Maybe I’ll add that to the wheelhouse. Which one would you say is the best to try out of those three?
My pet load is with 8208, but I’ve been hoarding what little of that powder I have left, as it is unobtanium. I haven’t tried the VV powders, but 130 and 133 are on my short list to try for light bullets from a short barrel.
My experience with both TAC and especially 8208 has been very good in the 120/123 range-8208 probably better with lighter weights. That said, MY go to powder is AR Comp, which I’ve managed to ferret away 24#. Runs cool, temp stable, excellent accuracy and SD’s in single digits, though very scarce and pricey at the moment. Lever/CFE223 likely better in 120+ range, fast-yes, but less temp stable.
Keep in mind, too, that Grendel brass doesn’t usually exhibit pressure until you’re well beyond the suggested 52k max mark for AR’s.
Keep in mind, too, that Grendel brass doesn’t usually exhibit pressure until you’re well beyond the suggested 52k max mark for AR’s.
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Another suggestion is CFE223. That and lever will give you insane speeds but come with the price of temp stability. If you're fine with that, go have some fun.
Use care with 8208 in the Grendel.
It can be a bit temperamental at the top end of the load and pressure can build quickly with small weight increments in the Grendel Case.
I loaded up 50 more for my SBR, at the “best” load from the previous outing. But, I removed the LPVO and mounted a vortex viper pst 6-24x50. I used 5 shots to zero the optic and then fired these two groups with a 5ish minute break between them. The red square is 1” corner to corner. People sometimes ask “why do you hand load ammunition?”
Yea I’ve seen the same circumstance happen many times. Even from ammo to ammo. Crazy how particular rifles can be.
You will probably find that cfe223 does the same at the top end.
It will group and then scatter mode, dont test any past that.
I realize that this is the reloading thread, but to insure that it does not appear that I am unnecessarily disparaging Hornady Black ammunition, here is a 7 shot group that I fired today from my "match" 6.5 Grendel; 22" JP barrel. This is the Hornady Black 123 gr BTHP ammunition. Why 7 shots? Because I had 10 in the magazine and it took 3 to refine the zero. The left most impact is part of those 3, and not part of the group- as I made a 0.1 mil right scope adjustment after that shot was taken. This is the rifle that makes me wonder why I own any other rifles. It shoots the Black ELD-M load, and my hand loads, better than this. I really wish Hornady would bring back their match 6.5 Grendel offering. That load was magic...
What charge weights with TAC are you using to get those speeds?
TAC is a great powder in Grendel, but you’re getting into 24” barrel max speeds with it under a 123gr.
I like it more for lighter bullets such as 100gr NBT.
For 123gr SST, I use 31.2gr of CFE223, which is around 47,000psi in a mid-life SAAMI Grendel chamber.
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Here is Hodgdon’s pressure-test breech data from a 24” Grendel barrel for LT-30 under a 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, which does not have anywhere near the boat tail intrusion that the 100gr ELD-VT does. 27.6gr is 2.5gr over max with a shorter bullet, so you are way over max pressure. GRT and QL are typically many thousand psi off from actual test breech data.
6.5 Grendel, 24” barrel, LT-30, 100gr NBT
| Accurate | LT-30 | 2.230" | 22.6 | 2,288 | 46,600 PSI | 25.1 | 2,495 | 51,800 PSI |
Apparently 6.5 Grendel recoil is increasing, because it was just reported by another forum user that it has more recoil than his Fudd-Special .270 Win... 
www.snipershide.com
Grendel recoil
Whoever claimed the 6.5 grendel is low recoil is full of it. I just got a Howa mini action 6.5 and it has more recoil than my 270. That's what I get for believing manufacturer hype. Looks like I'll be buying another muzzle brake
www.snipershide.com
The 270 weight 30 lbs and the Grendel just a barreled action? I could get on board with that.
There’s a chart somewhere showing the temp sensitivity of most powders, but in practice for me, it hasn’t meant a hill of beans because I’m looking for center-punches on steel and I’ve gotten that consistently for 10 years straight using CFE223 under 123gr A-MAX from my 17.6” lightweight Lilja Grendel build.
Maybe if someone is chasing Xs it means something, but I just have not seen it manifest in the real world, and that includes me shooting out to 1000yds on large gongs where you can see all the impacts. I’ve rapid-fired 6rd groups at 1000yds with that set-up that were sub-MOA, 8” vertical and 4” horizontal.
Had I been using 8208XBR or AR Comp, could I have shrunken the vertical down to 4”? Maybe, but dang man, it’s 1k and I just want to hear and see impacts where I expect them. We are so freaking spoiled nowadays with information, much of it that might be detrimental to getting out and shooting. If I was shooting more at 1200-1500yds, maybe 8208XBR and AR Comp would be better for that.
This past winter, I found a box of that same ammo I loaded back in maybe 2015 (Lapua brass, 31.2gr CFE223, Rem 7.5 SRP, 123gr A-MAX), put some in a mag in the same 17.6” Lilja Grendel, same scope, same mount, etc. and dialed in what my program said was solid data for 600yds, then center-punched the steel 1st-round. Same load shot around 1 o’clock 5” from center at 1000yds back in 2014 at 50˚ higher temps than the winter sample results.
This is better than “good enough” for me.
I haven’t loaded much with TAC other than for my 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip development back with my 16” AA Grendel barrel back in 2009-2010.
I have a 270 featherweight.
I put a decelerater pad on it to calm it down. It is a great one shot wonder.
It's a tool for long hikes or rough terrain.
My 6.5g ar does in no way recoil that hard.
I put a decelerater pad on it to calm it down. It is a great one shot wonder.
It's a tool for long hikes or rough terrain.
My 6.5g ar does in no way recoil that hard.
Looks like Power Pro Varmint is producing some great numbers under the new 100gr ELD-VT.
One shooter is getting 2920fps from a 24” barrel on top of 31.4gr (this is .2gr over max for a 100gr Sierra in Sierra’s published data).
Here are results from a ladder from a 22” BHW barrel:
100gr ELD-VT, 22” BHW
30.3 2779
30.6 2791
30.9 2835
31.2 2862
31.5 2887
That beats 6mm ARC 108gr ELD-M in drop out to 1200yds, and is within .1 mils drift starting at 500yds to 900yds.
2.7 vs 2.54 at 1000
3.2 vs 2.9 at 1100
So 0.16 mils advantage to 6mm at 1k for wind. This is why I cancelled my plans to do a 6mm.
One shooter is getting 2920fps from a 24” barrel on top of 31.4gr (this is .2gr over max for a 100gr Sierra in Sierra’s published data).
Here are results from a ladder from a 22” BHW barrel:
100gr ELD-VT, 22” BHW
30.3 2779
30.6 2791
30.9 2835
31.2 2862
31.5 2887
That beats 6mm ARC 108gr ELD-M in drop out to 1200yds, and is within .1 mils drift starting at 500yds to 900yds.
2.7 vs 2.54 at 1000
3.2 vs 2.9 at 1100
So 0.16 mils advantage to 6mm at 1k for wind. This is why I cancelled my plans to do a 6mm.
My 2 grendels are going to be primarily for taking deer probably with 200 yards. These are texas deer too so they're not huge. One is 20" and the other is 18". Both are bolt guns.
My biggest concern would be the texas weather. I'm not shooting for Xs or doing anything competitive. However, I could go to my hunt early and it be ~30°ish and then 75° or even up to 90° at times.
I'm also a fairly new reloader so I can't say I've loaded hundreds of rounds of ball powders. Perhaps if that was the case, I wouldn't be so weary.
If ARComp or h4895 would be available priced decently, I'd be looking at that. For now, I have some tac to experiment with.
So at 200yds with a 100fps ES between morning (2365fps) and afternoon (2465fps), you’d have 0.6” difference in trajectory. You won’t notice because that’s outside of any field shooter’s ability to repeatedly hold.
Those shooting for X count, BR and LR competition, and ELR are the main ones concerned about temp sensitivity.
Go straight to 27.0gr +/- .2gr AR Comp with BR4, 7 1/2’s or 450’s with almost any 120/123 class bullet. Accurate, temp stable, low SD’s, 2475-2550 depending on chamber, distance to lands and barrel length. Works in most every Grendel I own.
Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
It is scarce, though is starting to show up. Powder Valley, Bruno’s, Midsouth, Drifters and Natchez have had it, sometimes under $400/8lb and if lucky, no hazmat. 8208 is also great, and even more rare in the wild. CFE223 or Lever are your velocity kings, but you have to address their temp sensitivity, depending on where you live and shoot.
Other good thing to ARC’s credit is that it also works in most 223, 308 and even 6.5CM with lighter bullets. Think powder inventory consolidation.
Other good thing to ARC’s credit is that it also works in most 223, 308 and even 6.5CM with lighter bullets. Think powder inventory consolidation.
AR-C was lackluster in my shorty barrels. H-4895 ended up being the temp stable accuracy winner with 123 class bullets. Of course if anything is harder to find than comp or 8208 its that.
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