6.5 Grendel

[stello1001]

Guys, I'm using the RCBS 2 die set for grendel. When seating a 123 amax, I notice it feels a bit weird and then leaves a ring. What seater dies or seating stems are you guys using for these shape bullets?

It should be noted that I would also want something that works with 107smk as I may be buying some soon.

 

[Shoots 700's]

Sounds like neck tension is too high

 

[stello1001]

Sounds like neck tension is too high

Lol no.
Not all seating stems work with all all bullet types. I process the brass exaxtly the same with SST or match burners as I did with the AMAX and this only happens with the AMAX.

 

[misser]

I have seen guys us H335 but I do not have much experience with it.
I know CFE223 had my 90gr running 2550 in a 12.5"

yes been there done that . was shooting steel at 400 yd 120 gr

 

[stello1001]

How many are using benchmark in a bolt gun with 120s?

 

[stello1001]

I've asked before and no replies, I'll ask again.

Can somebody help me find out which seating stem I need? I am reloading using RCBS dies. I've tried 120 match burners, 123SST, and 123AMAX. The AMAX does not seem to have a proper fit and the die is leaving a ring on the bullet as well as producing a weird feeling when initially seating the bullet. I think the plastic tip was hitting first, then getting squeezed a bit til the die contacted the bullet and leaving rings.

I'm gonna start loading 107 SMK & TMK and want to be problem-free.

Does anyone know a seating stem replacement or even a seater die I could buy that will have a better fit to these long sleek bullet shapes?

@LRRPF52 maybe you know?

 

[Former Cav]

Ultra Micrometer Seater Die. Forster Products. 6.5 Grendel number is U 000 59

Bench Rest® Ultra Micrometer Seater Die – Forster Products

Order according to the profile of the specific cartridge. U00002,U00004,U00007,U00010,U00013,U00017,U00016,U00019,U00022,U00023,U00200,U00025,U00028,U00031,U002

www.forsterproducts.com

Hopefully there is "no more" supply shortages due to the KOHvHid scam. I had to wait about 6 months to get mine.
It works great. I am seating 108 Grain Lupua Scenar bullets in Starline brass. Had my VERY BEST luck so far for TAC powder.

3 LOADS… Mar 28, 2024

FACTORY NEMO 120 Gr FMJ BT

H 2596 Low 2515 Avg 2567 Ext Sprd 81 SD 32.8 Not that tight of a group either

TAC by Ramshot powder 27.8 and 27.2 108 Gr Scenar LUpua bullet

27.2 Gr TAC H 2467 L 2336 AVG 2401 Ext SPRD 131 SD 92 cover 4 with a Quarter last one opened up

27.7 Gr TAC H 2452 L 2425 AVG 2438 Ext Sprd 26 SD 13.1 ß all 5 bullets you could cover with a dime!

2.221 overall length. CCI 41 starline brass 2nd firing cut to 1.510 Palmetto armory rifle w/ 1 in 8 twist SS 20 inches long..

Timney Trigger drop in 3 pound pull

The ONLY groups I have been able to achieve with the 120, 123 grain bullets (whether Hornady or Sierra or Gold Dot) has always been with 27.7 grains of Varget, Std Sm Rifle Winchester primer, and either Starline or Hornady brass. About 13/16 of an inch but the speed is SLOW at 2350 approx and that is through a 20 inch barrel
I still have WORK to do. My problem is what is available to buy to load with. Powders, bullets, primers etc. KohVhid has been the biggest scam in my 78 years of life!!

 

[NCHillbilly]

I was having the same issue, and I took one of the affected bullets and some valve grinding compound and polished my seating stem. I also started using a mandrel die to open the case necks and have all but completely eliminated the ring impression on the bullets.

 

[DHDeal]

I've asked before and no replies, I'll ask again.

Can somebody help me find out which seating stem I need? I am reloading using RCBS dies. I've tried 120 match burners, 123SST, and 123AMAX. The AMAX does not seem to have a proper fit and the die is leaving a ring on the bullet as well as producing a weird feeling when initially seating the bullet. I think the plastic tip was hitting first, then getting squeezed a bit til the die contacted the bullet and leaving rings.

I'm gonna start loading 107 SMK & TMK and want to be problem-free.

Does anyone know a seating stem replacement or even a seater die I could buy that will have a better fit to these long sleek bullet shapes?

@LRRPF52 maybe you know?

I use the Forster Ultra BR (and the standard Forster BR) and have since I started with the Grendel in 2010ish. I polish the ID of the stem and the only time I ever got a ring is when my case necks were sized too small. That issue was related to one particular sizing die that is in a box somewhere.

I use either a Forster FL die or a Wilson FL bushing die with a mandrel die for sizing and anneal.

I sounds to me you have more of a sizing issue or a too clean ID of the case necks. Polishing the ID of the stem will never hurt either.

 

[stello1001]

I use the Forster Ultra BR (and the standard Forster BR) and have since I started with the Grendel in 2010ish. I polish the ID of the stem and the only time I ever got a ring is when my case necks were sized too small. That issue was related to one particular sizing die that is in a box somewhere.

I use either a Forster FL die or a Wilson FL bushing die with a mandrel die for sizing and anneal.

I sounds to me you have more of a sizing issue or a too clean ID of the case necks. Polishing the ID of the stem will never hurt either.

The "too clean ID of the case necks" might be it. I had never thought about that. As far as sizing, I don't believe that to be the issue but I suppose anything is possible. I run an LE Wilson mandrel that is .263 so it's not like the necks are ridiculously small.

I'll have to check my notes when I'm home. I know I've loaded plenty of virgin starline. If that was the case when I had the rings, it might be the clean necks like you mentioned.

I'm assuming this happens because of friction or not enough lubrication?

 

[DHDeal]

Same same on the "friction or not enough lubrication". A stiff nylon brush chucked into a vise milling machine (drill in a vice) will work wonders, be a filthy creature and don't clean your brass, or try the dry lube in the neck like Neolube No.2. All will work more or less. I'm not a filthy creature and clean my brass so that is out for me....

I run a .2615" mandrel in my annealed and sized brass so if you are using a .263" mandrel, a tight ID on the necks is probably not your issue.

I would still polish the ID of your seating stem as it takes very little time and there are no downsides that I can fathom.

 

[bobke]

If you were using Redding dies, easy button would be a VLD seating stem, vs std.

“The Redding Competition Seating Dies for bottleneck cases are supplied with a free-floating seat stem that works well with the most common bullets available for the given caliber. Redding also makes these VLD seat stems for use with many popular VLD style bullets. These bullets have a much shallower ogive angle and may actually bottom out in the standard seat plug. The VLD Seat plugs have a proper internal contact angle and generally a smaller diameter to engage a VLD bullet in a more effective position for proper seating.”

Since you’re using RCBS dies, lapping your stem to the specific bullet, or merely relieving or chamfering some of the sharper internal edges of stem might be pretty easy way to address issue. If bullet tip is contacting stem before ogive, you might want to modify stem ID to eliminate same.
I’ve run into your issue when I have assembled ‘generously compressed’ loads,
which I avoid, though my favorite AR Comp does require a small amount of handle pressure when seating, especially with softer bullets. A short double stroke at bottom of cycle to assure consistent seating depth.
I tumble, anneal every firing cycle, use Redding lube on exterior, Redding Imperial dry neck lube on interior, and have migrated to Forster FL sizing dies and Redding carbide mandrels for case prep, and Redding Comp seating dies. Very low runout, .002 neck tension, excellent SD’s and accuracy. Shoot a lot of 120gr Scenars and no bullet marking.
One more thing-I feel pretty confident with my process, but as a double check on neck tension, even after annealing, I use a Forster neck gauge, and have found in some instances, another pass on mandrel required to assure even neck tension. If you’re not annealing, neck spring back could be yielding more grip than you might expect.

 

[stello1001]

If you were using Redding dies, easy button would be a VLD seating stem, vs std.

“The Redding Competition Seating Dies for bottleneck cases are supplied with a free-floating seat stem that works well with the most common bullets available for the given caliber. Redding also makes these VLD seat stems for use with many popular VLD style bullets. These bullets have a much shallower ogive angle and may actually bottom out in the standard seat plug. The VLD Seat plugs have a proper internal contact angle and generally a smaller diameter to engage a VLD bullet in a more effective position for proper seating.”

Since you’re using RCBS dies, lapping your stem to the specific bullet, or merely relieving or chamfering some of the sharper internal edges of stem might be pretty easy way to address issue. If bullet tip is contacting stem before ogive, you might want to modify stem ID to eliminate same.
I’ve run into your issue when I have assembled ‘generously compressed’ loads,
which I avoid, though my favorite AR Comp does require a small amount of handle pressure when seating, especially with softer bullets. A short double stroke at bottom of cycle to assure consistent seating depth.
I tumble, anneal every firing cycle, use Redding lube on exterior, Redding Imperial dry neck lube on interior, and have migrated to Forster FL sizing dies and Redding carbide mandrels for case prep, and Redding Comp seating dies. Very low runout, .002 neck tension, excellent SD’s and accuracy. Shoot a lot of 120gr Scenars and no bullet marking.
One more thing-I feel pretty confident with my process, but as a double check on neck tension, even after annealing, I use a Forster neck gauge, and have found in some instances, another pass on mandrel required to assure even neck tension. If you’re not annealing, neck spring back could be yielding more grip than you might expect.
View attachment 8570321

If my memory serves correct, this was new brass so it was annealed at the factory. Or are you implying that if I myself am not also annealing, there will be spring back regardless of it being new brass?

 

[bobke]

If factory annealed, should be minimal spring back. For future loading, if not annealing, may develop some degree of spring back after several firings. I’m pretty OCD about the details, so anneal every firing and have very consistent neck tension and low SD’s. I use same process loading for either bolt or semiautos.

 

[LRRPF52]

Man 2700 in a 12.5 gas gun?!
I was happy with 2500 but now I wanna push it !

Factory Federal 90gr TNT does ~2700fps from my 12” Grendel suppressed with 30 Cal TBAC Ultra 5.

It blows through brake discs even with that varmint round.

The 12” also spits factory Federal 120gr OTM Match at ~2400fps.

When shooting at 700-1000yds, it isn’t really that different than my 17.6” & 18” Grendels. There’s a tiny bit more drop, wind about the same.

It loves 123gr ELD-M as well. Hits the steel hard.

 

[Bevo]

3 shot group from my new (to me) CZ Varmint MTR. 90gr TNT hand loads. 3027 fps avg.

 

[thedude824]

I’m building my 6.5 Grendel next week with an 18” Craddock barrel. Unfortunately I’ve stuck myself in load development for a SBR SCAR 17, a 24” 308, and a 338 Lapua. I was curious if there is an easy button to start? Kind of like 168SMK with N140? I was hoping to eventually develop a load with Barnes TSX 115 grain, but I’d like a match bullet in the 120-123 grain? I’ve got TAC, N140, and some H335 on hand. I would love to avoid some of the development drama and start out with something that is likely to shoot well. I understand there are no guarantees. I appreciate it!

 

[stello1001]

Prolly a 123SMK with 28.5 ish of TAC. Obviously work up to it.

 

[Thomas Geistman]

I think I was running up to 29.6 grain of TAC

 

[stello1001]

I think I was running up to 29.6 grain of TAC

I mean that could work too. Just has to be worked up to it and checking where it groups best in .3 or .4 increments.

I only suggested the lower charge because it might be an AR. Going back to my notes, those mid to high 29 grain charge weights are already at the top of where I stopped testing, and mine is a bolt gun.

 

[thedude824]

I mean that could work too. Just has to be worked up to it and checking where it groups best in .3 or .4 increments.

I only suggested the lower charge because it might be an AR. Going back to my notes, those mid to high 29 grain charge weights are already at the top of where I stopped testing, and mine is a bolt gun.

I apologize. I thought I stated it was an AR build. While accuracy is super important to me, I’m not willing to go over safe pressures. I understand that by the time you see pressure signs on 6.5 Grendel you are already well above max pressure. I don’t think I’ve EVER gone over book max on any of my builds. Unfortunately the only manual I have is for Hornady. I was thinking of trying the Barnes TAC TSX 115 and either the 120 or 123 scenars. I’d love to get out to 1k, but I’d be satisfied with 800 yards.

 

[stello1001]

Benchmark or VV N133?
I think BM will be more temp stable no but 133 seems to ve a golden standard of some sort...

 

[misser]

95 gr HDY V-MAX

Starting Load

Maximum Load

Availability

Manufacturer

Powder

C.O.L.

Grs.

Vel. (ft/s)

Pressure

Grs.

Vel. (ft/s)

Pressure

Hodgdon

CFE 223

2.230"

30.2

2,579

34,000 PSI

33.5C

2,882

46,200 PSI

Hodgdon

LEVERevolution

2.230"

30.0

2,678

35,900 PSI

33.2C

2,982

47,600 PSI

 

[Redfisher60]

Was digging through a box of brass and found 100 of these, anyone know if Alexander was using Lapua Brass?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Was digging through a box of brass and found 100 of these, anyone know if Alexander was using Lapua Brass?

That was always the story back in the day. I'd heard that at some point they went away from Lapua, but no idea when or if that happened.

 

[DHDeal]

Was digging through a box of brass and found 100 of these, anyone know if Alexander was using Lapua Brass?

I have 500 or slightly more pieces of AA brass. As I also have hundreds of Lapua 6.5 Grendel brass to compare it to and I can say the older AA brass is Lapua. I've weighed it, annealed it, sized it, sectioned it, shot it, converted it to 6mm ARC (I'm a glutton for punishment), and loved it.

I do not have any knowledge if AA changed who make their brass. Hell, I don't even know if there is currently any new head stamped AA brass.

If you have any Lapua head stamped 6.5 Grendel brass, compare the flash hole between the two. All of my AA brass has the .062"ish flash hole just like Lapua head stamped stuff.

Not that you asked, but AA brass was what I started with in 2010ish. I lost a few pieces over the years to enlarged primer pockets but more to split necks. Those pieces were fired many many times.

 

[BillsMortuary]

My loads for my Poverty Pony, Savage 20" Shaw barrel

120 Hornady CX
28.0gr H335
Starline Brass
CCI 400 Primers
2467 FPS
0.75" @ 100yd
COL: 2.246"

95 Hornady V-Max
30.0gr H335
Starline Brass
Fed 205M Primers
2775 FPS
0.5" @ 100yd
COL: 2.241"

 

[zeroz]

Was digging through a box of brass and found 100 of these, anyone know if Alexander was using Lapua Brass?

I had AA brass on back order a few years back. The first 100 came as the AA stamped Lapua that it always was. The other 400 came about 2 months later and was Starline in an AA bag. A little disappointed but is what it is. I haven't ordered any from AA since so I dont know if they were using that to fill the gap or not.

 

[Bevo]

The Black Hills Gold ammo that was made for Les Baer is a mixed collection of Lapua and AA stamped brass depending on the box. I still have a few hundred rounds.

 

[misser]

i do not have any problems with Starline

 

[zeroz]

I dont either and its what I use in the AR. I was just a little disappointed when I opened the box thinking AA stamped Lapua and it was starline.

 

[Basic user]

Had a seating depth question for grendel AR's. When loading to mag length, these berger 130's are really deep in the case; doesnt doing that affect accuracy? And, for a 16" grendel, should I even be trying a bullet that heavy?

 

[stello1001]

Had a seating depth question for grendel AR's. When loading to mag length, these berger 130's are really deep in the case; doesnt doing that affect accuracy? And, for a 16" grendel, should I even be trying a bullet that heavy?

Prolly should go with a 123 of some sort or even the 107SMK/TMK.

That's a good bullet for a bolt gun that let's you push pressure and load longer to try and gain some speed.

 

[Basic user]

I see. Have you had any consistency issues with seating sierras versus other bullets?

 

[stello1001]

I see. Have you had any consistency issues with seating sierras versus other bullets?

The only time I had issues was when i seated a 120 amax on virgin brass. I realized it was all the friction from the neck not being lubed enough that caused a slight ring to imprint on the bullet after seating.

The very few 107 TMK & SMK bullets I have loaded presented no issues.

 

[Basic user]

For me, its only the sierras that after seating i measure base to ogive and theyre all over the place.