I am 81 rounds into barrel break in on M18 Mauser. Got one hole groups with 58.0 grain RL26 and 120 Gr Barnes TSX, and almost as good same load 123 Gr LaPua Scenar both with Fed 210 Match Primers ADG Brass. No pressure signs.
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6.5 PRC load data
- Thread starter CanSniper
- Start date
Any idea on the speed? I just picked up some ADG brass to try with RL26 and StaBall 6.5 and I’m going to be shooting the 124 gr Hammer Hunters.
After reading a lot of info in this thread I think I finally have something to send back.
Rifle: Defiance Deviant XM receiver, 26” Rock Creek cut rifle (.188 freebore), gain twist (7.5t-7.2t) with Q Trash Panda suppressor set into a Mesa Precision Altitude stock with detach mag
Bullet: 153.5g Berger hybrid, GW brass (2x fired), CCI 200 primers, H-1000 powder
I literally shot this speed test out my back sliding glass door when the outdoor temp was in the low 90’s while no one was home, so the ambient temp was 72*, or so. The barrel had more than 200 rnds thru by this point, so the likelihood of it speeding up soon is not really an issue. Bullets were seated to a jump of .020” for this part of the test. Magneto v3 clock.
57.1g=2914fps. 58.6g=3033fps
57.4g=2942fps. 58.9g=3053fps
57.7=2985fps. 59.2g=3072fps
58.0=2980fps. 59.5g=3070fps
58.3=3017fps. 59.8g=3102fps(compressed)
No real signs of pressure until the last shot. The first nine landed in a 1” group at 65yDTS (distance to stump). The last was higher and right of group.
The two nodes, 57.7-58.0 and 59.2-59.5, were loaded at one shot each between the the numbers for a total of four different charge weights for each node. I took these eight shots out to 500y to see the groups. 57.7, 57.8, 57.9, and 58.0 grouped around 2.5-3” at 500y so I chose to load several for bullet seating at 57.8g. The upper node grouped equally as well but as it was hot outside I’m gonna stick with the 2980ish speeds and maybe wit for winter to up the charge, if needed.
Bullet seating began at a jump of .005” and stopped at .060”. It was taken at 100y with a temp in upper 80’s.
Jump
.005”=1.229” group
.020”=1.048” group
.030”=.916” group
.045”=.373” group
.060”=.264” group
So my new load is:
57.8g h-1000, Gunwerx brass, CCI200 primer, 153.5 Berger set at COAL of 3.020 (.060 jump).
The DTL for this bullet is a COAL 3.080”. I don’t have the exact .26” comparator from Hornady so I’m using their 4-25 (.25”?) insert for a 2.388” measurement somewhere on the ogive. It works.
I haven’t taken a string of shots yet to test for ES and SD numbers but looking at the bullet seating test I think it’s gonna be pretty decent. All of the groups in seating test had a couple close hits and one a little farther away. The last group, shown below, was tight. Hope this helps someone save some time and money.
This rifle has been able to consistently hit out to 2165y with the factory Hornady 147’s. Hope this new handload makes it a little easier.
Rifle: Defiance Deviant XM receiver, 26” Rock Creek cut rifle (.188 freebore), gain twist (7.5t-7.2t) with Q Trash Panda suppressor set into a Mesa Precision Altitude stock with detach mag
Bullet: 153.5g Berger hybrid, GW brass (2x fired), CCI 200 primers, H-1000 powder
I literally shot this speed test out my back sliding glass door when the outdoor temp was in the low 90’s while no one was home, so the ambient temp was 72*, or so. The barrel had more than 200 rnds thru by this point, so the likelihood of it speeding up soon is not really an issue. Bullets were seated to a jump of .020” for this part of the test. Magneto v3 clock.
57.1g=2914fps. 58.6g=3033fps
57.4g=2942fps. 58.9g=3053fps
57.7=2985fps. 59.2g=3072fps
58.0=2980fps. 59.5g=3070fps
58.3=3017fps. 59.8g=3102fps(compressed)
No real signs of pressure until the last shot. The first nine landed in a 1” group at 65yDTS (distance to stump). The last was higher and right of group.
The two nodes, 57.7-58.0 and 59.2-59.5, were loaded at one shot each between the the numbers for a total of four different charge weights for each node. I took these eight shots out to 500y to see the groups. 57.7, 57.8, 57.9, and 58.0 grouped around 2.5-3” at 500y so I chose to load several for bullet seating at 57.8g. The upper node grouped equally as well but as it was hot outside I’m gonna stick with the 2980ish speeds and maybe wit for winter to up the charge, if needed.
Bullet seating began at a jump of .005” and stopped at .060”. It was taken at 100y with a temp in upper 80’s.
Jump
.005”=1.229” group
.020”=1.048” group
.030”=.916” group
.045”=.373” group
.060”=.264” group
So my new load is:
57.8g h-1000, Gunwerx brass, CCI200 primer, 153.5 Berger set at COAL of 3.020 (.060 jump).
The DTL for this bullet is a COAL 3.080”. I don’t have the exact .26” comparator from Hornady so I’m using their 4-25 (.25”?) insert for a 2.388” measurement somewhere on the ogive. It works.
I haven’t taken a string of shots yet to test for ES and SD numbers but looking at the bullet seating test I think it’s gonna be pretty decent. All of the groups in seating test had a couple close hits and one a little farther away. The last group, shown below, was tight. Hope this helps someone save some time and money.
This rifle has been able to consistently hit out to 2165y with the factory Hornady 147’s. Hope this new handload makes it a little easier.
Attachments
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So with h1000 and rl-26 on a goose hunt, what's the next couple go to powders people have seen still succeed well?
What state are you in? Guessing South Dakota, but..... I can find them both here in NC. I’ve heard 4831sc works with the lighter bullets, but although I have some I haven’t tried it yet.
San Diego, the other SD lol and I can't find it anywhere in San Diego or here in Utah while out of town for work
I hear ya. We have a small reloading shop in the state that stocks both powders, but they don’t ship due to lack of hazmat license. So that means they don’t even list either product on their website. Maybe look for a place like that wherever you are in Utah. Meanwhile, I did see some numbers on the 4831sc with the heavier bullets that seemed decent, 2900 FPS or so. 153 A-tip I think. I had intended on using that powder when I was considering the 144 Berger, but after getting the 153.5 to fly well I may just stick with what I’ve got. Wish I had better info for ya.
This is what I’ve found thus far shooting 5 shot groups in 143 ELD-X 210 federal primers
Seekins HAVAK Bravo 24inch barrel
H4831SC
51.5grains Ave 2757.2 SD 22.2
52.8grains Ave 2829.6 SD 10.7
53.0grains Ave 2835.0 SD 13.7
53.5grains Ave 2939.8 SD 18.2
54.0grains Ave 2946.2 SD 13.5
H1000
56.5grains Ave 2834.6 SD 16.3
57.5grains Ave 2899.8 SD 14.6
57.8grains Ave 2875.0 SD 8.7 (Shots 20-25 of breaking in the barrel...likely the reason for the velocity but good SD)
58.8grains Ave 2973.6 SD 14.24
Precision Hunter Factory
Ave 2889.1 SD 22.0
Just about every group is moa with 58.8 grains of H1000 and 53.0 grains of H4831SC being the tightest thus far. I’m still searching for that magic combination. Going to try 59 grains of H1000 next and who knows what. Hope this is helpful in some way.
Seekins HAVAK Bravo 24inch barrel
H4831SC
51.5grains Ave 2757.2 SD 22.2
52.8grains Ave 2829.6 SD 10.7
53.0grains Ave 2835.0 SD 13.7
53.5grains Ave 2939.8 SD 18.2
54.0grains Ave 2946.2 SD 13.5
H1000
56.5grains Ave 2834.6 SD 16.3
57.5grains Ave 2899.8 SD 14.6
57.8grains Ave 2875.0 SD 8.7 (Shots 20-25 of breaking in the barrel...likely the reason for the velocity but good SD)
58.8grains Ave 2973.6 SD 14.24
Precision Hunter Factory
Ave 2889.1 SD 22.0
Just about every group is moa with 58.8 grains of H1000 and 53.0 grains of H4831SC being the tightest thus far. I’m still searching for that magic combination. Going to try 59 grains of H1000 next and who knows what. Hope this is helpful in some way.
I’m gonna guess that those numbers are going to increase after 1-2 hundred rounds.
Proof Sendero Lite, 26", 1/8 twist
Retumbo Ladder Tests:
144 Berger Long Range Hybrid Target, 2.950", 0.058" off lands
57gr 2935
57.2gr 3003
57.4gr 3048
57.6gr 3049
57.8gr 3074
58 gr 3079
58.2gr 3060
58.4gr 3085
58.6gr 3089
58.8gr 3093
59gr 3120
No pressure signs at 59gr. The node between 58.4 and 58.8 put all 3 rounds in the same hole.
135 A-TIP, 2.950"
The A-TIPs all shot within an inch from 58 to 60gr. 59-59.6 gr were all touching. I got an ejector mark on the 60 grain charge.
135 Berger Elite Hunter, 2.950"
Pressure signs started showing up at 59.6gr. 59-59.6gr were all touching.
I really like the 135 A-TIP group of the 3 bullets tested with Retumbo. However, I'll be loading some various seating depths with each at the nodes I found.
Reloader 26 testing:
144 Berger Long Range Hybrid
2.950" 0.058" off lands, 57.0 grains of RE26, Extreme Spread 16 fps, STD Dev: 5.32 fps 1/2" group at 100y for 10 shots, 3 of those didn't read on the Labradar
Retumbo Ladder Tests:
144 Berger Long Range Hybrid Target, 2.950", 0.058" off lands
57gr 2935
57.2gr 3003
57.4gr 3048
57.6gr 3049
57.8gr 3074
58 gr 3079
58.2gr 3060
58.4gr 3085
58.6gr 3089
58.8gr 3093
59gr 3120
No pressure signs at 59gr. The node between 58.4 and 58.8 put all 3 rounds in the same hole.
135 A-TIP, 2.950"
The A-TIPs all shot within an inch from 58 to 60gr. 59-59.6 gr were all touching. I got an ejector mark on the 60 grain charge.
135 Berger Elite Hunter, 2.950"
Pressure signs started showing up at 59.6gr. 59-59.6gr were all touching.
I really like the 135 A-TIP group of the 3 bullets tested with Retumbo. However, I'll be loading some various seating depths with each at the nodes I found.
Reloader 26 testing:
144 Berger Long Range Hybrid
2.950" 0.058" off lands, 57.0 grains of RE26, Extreme Spread 16 fps, STD Dev: 5.32 fps 1/2" group at 100y for 10 shots, 3 of those didn't read on the Labradar
I loaded 127 Gr Barnes LRX with 57.0, 57.5, & 58.0 Gr RL 26. From 95-104 rounds in 95 degree heat. The 57.0 is .483” and grouping. It has to be over 3100fps. But I’m into tuning the loads now.
Update: I have had a major problem with this product. Yesterday the bolt stuck while is attempted to remove to clean and the firing pin assembly came out in my hand. The trigger was engaging the bolt face. I had to remove it to get the bolt body out and reassemble. Rifle is not a Sub MOA or even a MOA maybe 2-3 MOA. Bolt will turn in receiver and it has design and safety flaws especially for the market it’s designed for. My Son & Grandson nor anybody else will get this Puppy. I’m out a month plus work and about $1200 so be warned this is a mfg problem. I increased trigger pull to remedy the bolt problem but I didn’t cause the firing pin assembly to fall out.
I think it's H4831.... of course, can't be sure of it, but, doing the math and looking at the reloading charts for 143gr and 147 gr factory Hornady ammo, it seems that they use same load of powder for both projectiles. That way, Hornady would be saving lots of currencies doing one load for both cartridges. IMHO
Here's some data w/ H4831. I've loaded w/ RL22 and RL23 also besides my "go to" RL 26.
Christiansen Arms MPR 6.5 PRC 24" CR barrel 1-8" SilencerCo ASR brake
Hornady 153 gr A-Tip
H4831 54 gr
Hornady brass x 2
Fed 210
COL 2.030
COAL
Magneto V3
2.955 2864, 2881, 2876, 2859, 2879
Hornady 153 gr A-Tip
H4831 53 gr Hornady brass x 2
Fed 210
COL 2.030
COAL
Magneto V3
2.955 2927, 2886, 2899, 2891, 2898, 2895
53F 44% 30.23mmHg
Berger 156 gr Elite Hunter HPBT
H4831 54.5 Hornady brass x 6
Fed 210M
COL 2.035
COAL 2.940
Magneto V3
2823, 2830, 2852, 2849, 2848 2849, 2833, 2856, 2843, 2845 SD 10.6
53F 44% 30.23mmHg
Berger 156 gr Elite Hunter HPBT
H4831 54.8 Hornady brass x 6
Fed 210M
COL 2.035
COAL 2.940
Magneto V3
2852, 2866, 2852, 2870, 2859 2865, 2875, 2877, 2868, 2877 SD 7.5
Hornady 147 gr ELDM
H4831 54 gr
Hornady brass x 3
Fed 210M
COL 2.015
COAL 2.940
Magneto V3 2936, 2942, 2935, 2934, 2936 SD 3.1 1" group
Hornady 129gr Interlock
H4831 57.5 gr
Hornady brass x 4
Fed 210
COL 2.052
COAL 2.850
Magneto V3
3164, 3156, 3188, 3142, 3167 0.60" group w/ 4 in same hole
Hornady 129gr Interlock
H4831 58 gr
Hornady brass x 4
Fed 210
COL 2.052
COAL 2.850
Magneto V3
3154, 3176, 3180, 3179 1.00" group 3 shots through same hole
Christiansen Arms MPR 6.5 PRC 24" CR barrel 1-8" SilencerCo ASR brake
Hornady 153 gr A-Tip
H4831 54 gr
Hornady brass x 2
Fed 210
COL 2.030
COAL
Magneto V3
2.955 2864, 2881, 2876, 2859, 2879
Hornady 153 gr A-Tip
H4831 53 gr Hornady brass x 2
Fed 210
COL 2.030
COAL
Magneto V3
2.955 2927, 2886, 2899, 2891, 2898, 2895
53F 44% 30.23mmHg
Berger 156 gr Elite Hunter HPBT
H4831 54.5 Hornady brass x 6
Fed 210M
COL 2.035
COAL 2.940
Magneto V3
2823, 2830, 2852, 2849, 2848 2849, 2833, 2856, 2843, 2845 SD 10.6
53F 44% 30.23mmHg
Berger 156 gr Elite Hunter HPBT
H4831 54.8 Hornady brass x 6
Fed 210M
COL 2.035
COAL 2.940
Magneto V3
2852, 2866, 2852, 2870, 2859 2865, 2875, 2877, 2868, 2877 SD 7.5
Hornady 147 gr ELDM
H4831 54 gr
Hornady brass x 3
Fed 210M
COL 2.015
COAL 2.940
Magneto V3 2936, 2942, 2935, 2934, 2936 SD 3.1 1" group
Hornady 129gr Interlock
H4831 57.5 gr
Hornady brass x 4
Fed 210
COL 2.052
COAL 2.850
Magneto V3
3164, 3156, 3188, 3142, 3167 0.60" group w/ 4 in same hole
Hornady 129gr Interlock
H4831 58 gr
Hornady brass x 4
Fed 210
COL 2.052
COAL 2.850
Magneto V3
3154, 3176, 3180, 3179 1.00" group 3 shots through same hole
The info on this thread is awesome. Just ordered a .145 freebore proof carbon fiber wrapped Sendero contour 24 inch 6.5 PRC barrel from straight Jacket Armory. I went 1 in 8 twist since I plan on shooting 127 Barnes lrx Bullets with this barrel and live above and hunt above 6,000ft.. Do you all think 1 in 7.5 twist would be to fast to shoot the lighter grain Bullets out of the 6.5 prc or the ideal twist for everything.
I’m going to need to play around with this load some more by fine tuning seating depts but looks promising.
Seekins Havok bravo 24”. 140 Berger VLD under 54.5 H4831SC jumping .086, 5 shots @ 100 yards, average velocity 2946, SD 11.5, group size .58moa, mean radius .22 moa.
Wonder if you did record velocities! I loaded 55gr RL 26 and got 2886-2898(lo-hi). With RL26 55.5gr i've got 2930-2940(lo-hi). The problem I've with this is that with 52.6gr of whatever Hornady ammo does 3038-3052 (lo-hi). All that shot from Ruger LRTR 26" and 143gr ELD-X. All the shots at 100 yards and overlapping each others holes. Accuracy is there especially with commercial ammo. Federal 210, COL 2.835 - jump 0.055 to 0.065. I had to reseat the Hornady down to my specs 2.840 as my chamber has a very short throat. When I shot the very first time that rifle, the kick was very large and accuracy out of thewindow. Inches a part from shot to shot. Loaded an ammo and ejected it. Huge marks on projectile...than, I start playing until this 2.840 number. Unbelievable...My ammo next to the commercial was is like David and Goliath.
I don't understand how Hornady would load 52.6 of powder and achieve 3040+avarage and with 55.5gr RL26 I get 2940? Wonder if they use powder that is not listed in the reloading/s books? Wonder if they use Varget for it? Don't know if 52.6 gr of Varget isn't a bit much... I use 61.5 gr of Varget in my 300 WM with 177gr projectile and get 3100
Does anyone here have experience with Varget in conjunction with 6.5 PRC?
In any event, some input is highly appreciated! Thank you
It's known that most ammo makers have their own special blend or recipe that is not available to the public. RL26 and Retumbo is the closest to the concoction that they use. Still more of it on our end, but we can match velocities and accuracy with those two against the factory offerings.
I'm sure I posted earlier in this thread, MPA rifle, 26" 54.14 gr RL26 at the same COAL as Hornady 147 ELD factory ammo was within 10 fps of each other @ 3020 and same group size (~.375) and sub 10 SD/ES - don't have the data in front of me.
I'm sure I posted earlier in this thread, MPA rifle, 26" 54.14 gr RL26 at the same COAL as Hornady 147 ELD factory ammo was within 10 fps of each other @ 3020 and same group size (~.375) and sub 10 SD/ES - don't have the data in front of me.
Thank you for your input! Made we research the forum and found your posting. Looking at my post data and your data and Hornady data, something really didn't make sence...All that, made me go to my notes and I've found a very good explanation
.My apologies to the forum! My data shows that I reloaded RL 25 with 55.gr and 55.5gr. Now, all that makes perfect sense and it's in range with Hornady load chart. My mind played game with me thinking that I've used RL 26....
Now I'll load RL 25 with 56.9gr and RL 26 with 55.6gr and see if I would get the desired ~ 3050fps. Why 3050? Hornady commercial ammo of 143gr ELD-X clears that velocity in my M77 and it's extremely accurate. I am chasing a hunting load that would give me over 2000fps and 1300 ft/lbs of energy at 800 yards for ethical Elk hunt. Have said that, for deer, that very same load would be good for and up to 1200 yards!
Thank you Sticks!
Pretty much what I built but my barrel is a 7.5 twist. Finishing up load development with R26 and 156bergers. Im at 2915fps with 55gr. Had pressure signs at 2960 with 56.5gr.
I’ve pushed Sierra 150 with a 30 inch barrel with imr 7977 up to 1175 but prob is my twist it will explode 1 out of 5 I scored on some rl 26 and decided I would try a few found good node 52.8 to 53..4 3050 average sd of 9 with hornady brass 54 would put it above 3100 I can’t wait for some noslar brass or adg hornady seems to hold up just very inconsistent on weight and volume per batch .If you have a 1 7.5 you most definitely want to keep most bullets below 3075 not saying some want stay together but it’s rough on them . I would also like to note that I’ve shot several Berger 140 upwards of 3200 and never had one come apart.
I have 2 6.5 PRC rifles built by GAP. Best velocity, grouping, SDs/ESs, are all with RL-26. H1000 is a close 2nd. You are shooting light bullets and all my data is from Berger 156 EOLs. My groups are 5 shot groups with ESs in low single digits. Could you do better using lighter weight bullets for 0-500 yds & the heavies for your distance shooting? Good luck & congrats on the new rifle!
Houston, I’ve has GAP build 2 on XM actions. Strong recommendation for it and parts are easy to come by now as more people are building the short fat magnums on XMs now. My average COAL is 3.1+. My last build was throated off dummy rounds built from ADG brass & 156 EOLs. I believe the throat (Freebore) is .216.
I attached the reamer pic they used. After cutting this chamber they used a throat reamer to get the .216 throat. I’m not an expert and had to have the process and sequence explained to me.
Attachments
Axel, I have one with a 8 twist. My other has a 8 to 7.5 RH gain twist. All I shoot is 156 & 153.5 Berger’s. I have a Bartlein CF 8-7.5 I’m going to replace the 8 with. I’m doing it because I want to. The truth is I can’t tell any difference between the 8 twist and the 7.5 twist as far as accuracy & signs of bullet instability.
Recommend fire forming brass neck sizing only the letting Neil Jones or Whidden make custom dies. I just recieved some Norma brass and have a Lot of Lapua due in a couple of weeks. I’d wait on the Lapua or go with Norma.
What a great thread. I just had a shorty 6.5 PRC built for Hunting. I shot about 45 rounds of "factory" ammo from Pendleton Custom Ammunition yesterday with ADG Brass, Unknown Powder, and the 124 Hammer Hunters. One hole groups at 100, 2" groups at 400, and "hits on steel" at 700 (wind was blowing very erratically). So far I am happy with the setup. I am going to try some loads utilizing some 4831sc I have and some 124 Hammer Hunters. I think the faster burning powder will work well with the shorter barrel. I will post up some info when done.
H4831 works very well with the 130 and lower class bullets. You'll have good success
I had 3000 fps plugged into my Kestrel and my Kilo and was getting hits center plate at 400, 600, and 720. Must be fairly close to that.
Gorgeous build. Curious about an update if you ever found a good load with the 124 HHs. I'm getting 2875 MV out of mine in a 6.5 CM but am seriously thinking about a PRC
Oh yikes. I am sorry for your loss. Let me know if you have any more stuff you want to get rid of!
Out of my 18" proof with a 7" TBAC I am getting 3040-3070 from that ammo, and it actually shot really well. I suspect they are probably using Reloder 26, but I haven't pulled a bullet yet to inspect the powder. I am using a LabRadar chrono it has always served me well as a starting point.
I am working with 4831sc for my handloads, with the ADG brass. I had read on ADG's website to utilize less powder in their cases due to decreased case capacity on the "reinforced"portions of their brass. I started really low on my powder charges, about 52 grains and worked up in .5 grain increments to 56 grains. This is still 2ish grains below Hornady's maximum load of 57.9, and I haven't seen any signs of pressure whatsoever. SD's are single digits, and I topped out at 2930 with the 124 Hammer Hunters with 56 grains of powder. I would expect to see a little bit of a velocity increase as my barrel breaks in, so I am happy with the velocity and accuracy at this point. Interestingly, my rifle seems to shoot more accurately as my speed increases. I might try my next batch in .2 grain increments up to about 57 grains. Unless I stall out and start getting weird pressure signs, I would think I will land right in the 3000 fps mark. I am not too concerned with the speed however, so I may just stick at 56 and let er buck. I am pleasantly surprised at how nice this rifle is to shoot. Weighs in at a mere 8.4lbs all decked out and recoil is pretty dang manageable and I am able to spot hits (or misses) at workable hunting ranges. This is strictly a hunting rig, so far I feel like it will serve me well.
Settled on a Load...
18" Proof Sendero Lite with 7" TBAC Ultra 7
124 Grain Hammer Hunter
ADG Brass
57.2 Grain H4831sc
2.900 COAL
3030 fps
Had fairly benign wind conditions today, so was able to shoot longer ranges with good consistency. I got about 1/2 MOA accuracy at 100, but my groups tightened up to about 1/3 MOA at 400, 600, and 750. Pretty happy with this combo for my hunting setup, next up is some on game performance.
18" Proof Sendero Lite with 7" TBAC Ultra 7
124 Grain Hammer Hunter
ADG Brass
57.2 Grain H4831sc
2.900 COAL
3030 fps
Had fairly benign wind conditions today, so was able to shoot longer ranges with good consistency. I got about 1/2 MOA accuracy at 100, but my groups tightened up to about 1/3 MOA at 400, 600, and 750. Pretty happy with this combo for my hunting setup, next up is some on game performance.
Sounds like you're crushing it with the H4831. Anyone have reports on how Nosler brass is in the PRC?
Would you mind if I copied your data over to the Long Range Hunting forum? We have a running collection of load data for the hammer bullets that we are compiling.
