6.5x47 Lapua

[NELAshooter]

The only 120 grain bullet that I shoot in my 6.5x47 is the Nosler ballistic tip. It’s pushed with H4895 to 2910 fps. That’s my hunting load. I’ve shot thousands of the 123 Lapua Scenars pushed with RL15 to 2930 fps. Velocities are from 24-26” barrels. I tried several different powders but these worked the best for me.

 

[diggler1833]

I shoot the 120gr Scenar-L out of one of my 6.5x47s. I have it going a bit slower than most, but I'll need to get my firing pin bushed with the next rebarrel. If I get much hotter I get some ridiculous catering.

I don't know where the photos went on my phone, but this combo holds up well at distance too. Below I was just checking my windows of optimal seating depth and charge weights. Just five shot groups.

 

[morning would]

The only 120 grain bullet that I shoot in my 6.5x47 is the Nosler ballistic tip. It’s pushed with H4895 to 2910 fps. That’s my hunting load. I’ve shot thousands of the 123 Lapua Scenars pushed with RL15 to 2930 fps. Velocities are from 24-26” barrels. I tried several different powders but these worked the best for me.

What weight powder charge of 4895. I shoot 120smk’s out of my x47 sometimes because I have a bunch of them. I have been using Varget.

 

[NELAshooter]

What weight powder charge of 4895. I shoot 120smk’s out of my x47 sometimes because I have a bunch of them. I have been using Varget.

I’d hate to give that information out. That load is shot out of a well worn HH marksman barrel that is only used for hunting now. It was my first 6.5x47 barrel for competing in PRs. You will need to work up for your own safety. Probably start around 35 grains.

 

[Wolf8298]

Just in case you want to see what QL predicts for that combo:

View attachment 8375828

Thank you. Not sure what QL is but I like it.

 

[Wolf8298]

I was running 123 Scenars at 2910 with 40.6 grs of h4350. Those 139 should shoot well if you can’t get those to shoot you have a problem with the barrel

Thank you

 

[Geno C.]

Thank you. Not sure what QL is but I like it.

Quick load. It’s a predictive loading program

 

[Belt fed]

Need some input on a head scratcher.
Built a x47 about 16 mo ago. Bought 500 round of Lapua factory 139 ammo to get started, and for the brass, with the intent to not hit my primer/bullet powder supply while I sorted the gun out. Figured it would be solid and get me rolling.

And it was. After shooting a few hundred, I worked up a solid load with Berger 130, Varget and Fed 205m. I was shooting 2880 with 37.2, and this was 1.5 gr below pressure on a warm spring Las Vegas day.

Cut to about 6 weeks ago, I decided to shoot up the rest of the Lapua 139 factory ammo and reload them. Went to a club match, it was 40 degrees and not very pleasant. And I got heavy bolt lift, and even blown primers. With factory ammo.

So I switched to my handload, Berger 130 with 37.2 Varget. Same damn thing - pressure, heavy bolt lift, serious scarring of the lettered face of the case from the ejector. The last one I fired was kinda stuck, so I just packed it up and left.

So I can't figure out how/why I had pressure on a 40 degree day, with both handloads and factory ammo. I've shot both of these with no issue for the past 9-12 months, and now they both make me nervous. My handloads are about 1gr over book for Varget, but I've never seen an issue with them in over 200 rounds. And also with Lapua factory ammo?? I can reduce my handload powder charge, but what do I do with 200 rounds of factory?

Something off with the rifle? Any clues on where to look are very welcome.

 

[padom]

How you cleaning? How often? Have you put a bore scope down it? Sounds like you might have a carbon ring.

 

[diggler1833]

Yep, I'd definitely but a bore scope into the chamber and look for the carbon ring before doing anything else.

If you don't own one, you can get a Teslong for about the same cost as 100 pieces of factory Lapua brass, or 50 rounds of factory loaded ammo.

 

[RegionRat]

Was there any rain or drizzle that got to your ammo or gun while you were running?

 

[Belt fed]

How you cleaning? How often? Have you put a bore scope down it? Sounds like you might have a carbon ring.

Carbon ring was my first thought. I scoped it, there was moderate carbon


I'm typically cleaning it after 40-50 rounds. Bore guide with Bore Tech C4 and Iosso blue brushes. I did wonder if my bore guide was maybe restricting the brush/solvent access to the front of the chamber/leade area.

 

[Belt fed]

Was there any rain or drizzle that got to your ammo or gun while you were running?

Yes, and I hadn't thought about that until your question.
It was raining. The rifle was under an awning on a bench, but the wind had blown rain onto it - mostly from the front left if I was behind the gun - while we were waiting. I don't believe any rain would have made it into the action, but it is possible the loaded magazine was wet.

 

[RegionRat]

but it is possible the loaded magazine was wet.

Ok, it may be that you have to inspect everything, make sure the chamber, barrel, and ammo are all clean and try again.
When the brass has been exposed to water or oils, it is not hard to get false positives on the brass because the brass doesn't grip the chamber.

 

[RTTY]

Hello, wath type/brand of head space bump gauge are the best for this caliber?
I use Hornady lock n load head space bushing C375 but Reading CIP plans I find that the head space diameter are not .375" but .3771...
Can this differenze make some fake measures on the head space finding?

Have in the market some head space gauge more precise respect to Hornady

 

[diggler1833]

Hello, wath type/brand of head space bump gauge are the best for this caliber?
I use Hornady lock n load head space bushing C375 but Reading CIP plans I find that the head space diameter are not .375" but .3771...
Can this differenze make some fake measures on the head space finding?

Have in the market some head space gauge more precise respect to Hornady

I think that the Short Action Customs headspace comparator kit is more precisely machined than Hornady's, but it is also much more expensive. I use Hornady's, but I also allow for .001 error.

Modular Headspace Comparator – Kit

This kit comes complete with 4 inserts of your choice, one long body, one short body and the stand. Please make sure you select 4 headspace or bullet inserts. Save $55.00 compared to purchasing individually! *** Solid Bullet Inserts are for bullets similar to Cutting Edge Solids Lathe turned...

shortactioncustoms.com

Regarding using the C375 insert from Hornady: just take a reading on your fired brass with it, and then adjust your sizing die for ~ .002 less. The shoulder angle is in a straight line from the case body to the neck...so your datum point won't make a difference in the result of your shoulder bump.

 

[RTTY]

I think that the Short Action Customs headspace comparator kit is more precisely machined than Hornady's, but it is also much more expensive. I use Hornady's, but I also allow for .001 error.

Modular Headspace Comparator – Kit

This kit comes complete with 4 inserts of your choice, one long body, one short body and the stand. Please make sure you select 4 headspace or bullet inserts. Save $55.00 compared to purchasing individually! *** Solid Bullet Inserts are for bullets similar to Cutting Edge Solids Lathe turned...

shortactioncustoms.com

Regarding using the C375 insert from Hornady: just take a reading on your fired brass with it, and then adjust your sizing die for ~ .002 less. The shoulder angle is in a straight line from the case body to the neck...so your datum point won't make a difference in the result of your shoulder bump.

Hello @diggler1833!
Thanks for the reply,
the gauge of your link are not sold on Italy, custom and shipping from USA are proibitive...

I arrange some test with my Hornady setup and your advice.

Thanks

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

Barrel broke 3000 rounds during this five shot string. Can’t complain. 600 yards prone. Two more x47 barrels being spun up by SPR.

123 ELDM/42.0 H4350/CCI 450

 

[RTTY]

Hello friends!
I'm relatively a newbee of shooting and Reloading.
My experience are less than one year.
I started with 100 rounds of Lapua 136 Scenar-L farm loaded.
Until now I reload all my rounds but I'm not satisfayed of result of brass forming.
This as maked on my some doubt about my measurements and sizing procedure.

Can someone help and follow me on my measurements and sizing procedure?

I have RCBS standard fl die, Redding body die and Forster bushing neck die.
Hornady gauge for caliper.

My first dubt are this:
if I size my fired brass about .002" or .003" down I go out the SAAMI specs.
I have fear that this can make dangerous situation for the brass and first for me.

If I size the brass under the SAAMI specs I find the dropping closing of the bolt, but are below SAAMI specs for Headspace.

Thanks

 

[Dogtown]

I wouldn't worry about the SAAMI specs at this point; just focus on your chamber dimensions. So you've fired brass and it is now expanded to fit your chamber. You need to full length size it down by 0.002-003" so that it will reliably feed and extract from your chamber.

The only problem occurs when your brass hasn't been sized, so that it is too tight for your chamber OR if you size it too much and you have excessive headspace.

 

[RTTY]

I wouldn't worry about the SAAMI specs at this point; just focus on your chamber dimensions. So you've fired brass and it is now expanded to fit your chamber. You need to full length size it down by 0.002-003" so that it will reliably feed and extract from your chamber.

The only problem occurs when your brass hasn't been sized, so that it is too tight for your chamber OR if you size it too much and you have excessive headspace.

HI, I did some tests using the RCBS full length die.
The cartridge case fired in the rifle has a headspace length of 1.471" (37.37mm).
The recalibrated case measures 1.468" (37.29mm).
I tested this case in the chamber and the bolt lever closes with a certain force, not excessive but it takes a little force.
Nothing to do with what the videos online show where the shutter lever goes down almost by itself.
I measured the case again after chambering it and the headspace measurement decreased to 1.467" (37.27mm).
Now I'm wondering if I should stop at this point or should I go down further until the lever goes down almost in free fall, with minimal effort?

If you need a video say so and I'll post it. Thank you

 

[Dogtown]

So it sounds like you just need to bump the case shoulder a bit more until the bolt closes with a normal amount of force. Still, this is kind of odd behavior - usually 0.002-0.003" is enough for easy chambering. However, there are always outliers in any system.

 

[Geno C.]

Is the little bit of force cause by the case compressing the ejector?

 

[RTTY]

So it sounds like you just need to bump the case shoulder a bit more until the bolt closes with a normal amount of force. Still, this is kind of odd behavior - usually 0.002-0.003" is enough for easy chambering. However, there are always outliers in any system.

In fact, it's not normal...

I believed that with the recalibration carried out I would obtain the desired result.

I lowered the shoulder by 3 thousandths of an inch as per advice and readings but the shutter doesn't work as it should.

To ensure that the shutter closes effortlessly, almost in a cascade, I tried to move down the shoulder until I reached 1.4645"~ (37.20mm).

With this headspace measurement I get very close to the force needed to close the shutter seen in the demonstration videos on YouTube.

But I'm at the limit of the specs...

What do you recommend me to do?

Thanks

 

[Dogtown]

That seems very odd to me. I wonder if there is something wrong with your chamber? Does new brass (out of the box) chamber without any force?

 

[RTTY]

Is the little bit of force cause by the case compressing the ejector?

HI! Sorry if I didn't specify, I removed the ejector pin from the bolt.

 

[diggler1833]

#1 How is your primer seating? If you are .001 or so proud (you can feel the primer above the case head) that'll do it too.

#2 What action are you using? Not all are created equal (at all). Is your trigger "timed" to the action with a hanger?(that's a whole other topic)

#3 What comparator set are you using to measure headspace?

 

[RTTY]

That seems very odd to me. I wonder if there is something wrong with your chamber? Does new brass (out of the box) chamber without any force?

Yes, with the brand new brass the bolt fall down with no problem.

 

[RTTY]

#1 How is your primer seating? If you are .001 or so proud (you can feel the primer above the case head) that'll do it too.

#2 What action are you using? Not all are created equal (at all). Is your trigger "timed" to the action with a hanger?(that's a whole other topic)

#3 What comparator set are you using to measure headspace?

#1 I decapsulated the shells

#2 I have a standard action, the factory one

#3 Hornady OAL gauge .375

 

[Geno C.]

Cover the case in ink and chamber it. Might not be headspace causing the bolt to have resistance

 

[diggler1833]

#1 I decapsulated the shells

#2 I have a standard action, the factory one

#3 Hornady OAL gauge .375

Who made your factory action? Who did the barrel?

Cases without primers ensures that my #1 question is answered.

If you're greater than .003 bump, and you're having to force the bolt home, I'm currently suspecting something with either the chamber or bolt face/head.

 

[RTTY]

Who made your factory action? Who did the barrel?

Cases without primers ensures that my #1 question is answered.

If you're greater than .003 bump, and you're having to force the bolt home, I'm currently suspecting something with either the chamber or bolt face/head.

Action and barrell is made by Sabatti

 

[RTTY]

Cover the case in ink and chamber it. Might not be headspace causing the bolt to have resistance

Case painted and chambered don't touch on body and shoulder and neck.
Also the base don't touch more than the usual.

 

[RTTY]

Hello folk!
I made some test today...
I've made test with fired cases (1.471" Headspace) usung the neck bushing die of Forster.
For obtain a smoothly closure of the bolt handle I've pushing the Headspace measures setting until 1.467" +- half thousand of inch.

With the RCBS standard FL die the good setting for a smooth closing of bolt handle is 1.466"

Now I thing to renew the FL die stuff.
So, about your experience, wath are the best non niche segment FL die, that I can purchase and are availlable also on EU?

FL die standard or Bushing?

I had the neck bushing by Forster.

Thanks, Camillo

 

[RTTY]

Hello again!
I've made some measurements about the space betwen the mouth of the brass and the start of the porction of the chamber for the ball.

The carbon ring area.

What are the correct space to leave for a correct expansion/delongation of the neck and prevention or minimum formation of carbon ring?

Attacched two snapshoot from the borescope.

Thanks!

 

[diggler1833]

Hello again!
I've made some measurements about the space betwen the mouth of the brass and the start of the porction of the chamber for the ball.

The carbon ring area.

What are the correct space to leave for a correct expansion/delongation of the neck and prevention or minimum formation of carbon ring?

Attacched two snapshoot from the borescope.

Thanks!

Since you've chambered a piece of brass, and looked again with your borescope, let it "stretch" a little on you after firing before you trim again. You actually are fairly close right now as it is.

Trimming back to the length recommended in reloading manuals usually creates more of a gap there, while leaving your brass closer to the 'maximum case length' closes that gap a bit.

Don't forget to check that gap with your longest piece of brass each round of firing *after resizing*. You also never want to fully close that gap - because you want a little wiggle room for inconsistencies.

 

[RTTY]

Since you've chambered a piece of brass, and looked again with your borescope, let it "stretch" a little on you after firing before you trim again. You actually are fairly close right now as it is.

Trimming back to the length recommended in reloading manuals usually creates more of a gap there, while leaving your brass closer to the 'maximum case length' closes that gap a bit.

Don't forget to check that gap with your longest piece of brass each round of firing *after resizing*. You also never want to fully close that gap - because you want a little wiggle room for inconsistencies.

Hi,
since I moved to reloading for my rifle I look'd that the brass a bit longer than the standard 47mm (1.850") for this caliber fit without problem on the chamber.

For a bit longer I mean 47,1mm or so...

Now I trim with economic Lee Case Length ad Shelle Holder Kit.
This make a 46,85mm brass length.

Now I think to move on a table trimmer on combination with a 3 way trimmer likes RCBS, Forster.
Also Giraud(for a drill) if availlable on the EU...

I follow your advice at the next shooting session.
But how many clearance I need to leave a the neck elongation?

Thanks!

 

[diggler1833]

Hi,
since I moved to reloading for my rifle I look'd that the brass a bit longer than the standard 47mm (1.850") for this caliber fit without problem on the chamber.

For a bit longer I mean 47,1mm or so...

Now I trim with economic Lee Case Length ad Shelle Holder Kit.
This make a 46,85mm brass length.

Now I think to move on a table trimmer on combination with a 3 way trimmer likes RCBS, Forster.
Also Giraud(for a drill) if availlable on the EU...

I follow your advice at the next shooting session.
But how many clearance I need to leave a the neck elongation?

Thanks!

How much clearance is up to you. I really never let mine ever go beyond max case length in the manual. You will never eliminate the formation of a carbon ring, just slow its growth.

Really, I usually just trim the rest of the brass to my shortest case length for case uniformity, and clean my barrel (and carbon ring) every 125 rounds. Right now with this latest batch, I'm on my third firing of Lapua brass, and my shortest case is 1.845 - so I'm trimming everything to 1.845.

I also learned years ago not to over deburr the outside of the case mouth, or you'll form a ring pretty quickly too.

 

[RTTY]

How much clearance is up to you. I really never let mine ever go beyond max case length in the manual. You will never eliminate the formation of a carbon ring, just slow its growth.

Ok, I understand your message!

Really, I usually just trim the rest of the brass to my shortest case length for case uniformity, and clean my barrel (and carbon ring) every 125 rounds. Right now with this latest batch, I'm on my third firing of Lapua brass, and my shortest case is 1.845 - so I'm trimming everything to 1.845.

Ok for the trimming length.

I clean my rifle when possibile afetr every session, about 100 rounds.

I also learned years ago not to over deburr the outside of the case mouth, or you'll form a ring pretty quickly too.

This is one of my trimming trouble.
After I had trimmer the case, I think due to the low rotation speed of the case, a the external face of the neck the burring are most evident.
Is it perhaps necessary to increase the rotation speed of the case?

 

[serg tihan]

Greetings esteemed community, I have been trying to find information on this forum and have come across a wealth of useful insights. However, I have a pressing question that requires clarification. I hope that through a discussion format, the truth and a practical solution to my task will emerge.
My first serious rifle was a custom Remington 700 chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor. However, all that remains of the Remington is the name, as the Bartlein 28-inch barrel performed exceptionally well.
Recently, I have developed a keen interest in the 6.5x47 caliber. After learning about its ease of tuning, longer barrel life, and optimal target performance, I acquired a Cadex CDX-30 in 6.5x47. With over 3000 rounds fired, the results have not exceeded those achieved with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Additionally, fluctuations in bullet velocity have been noted, indicating that the barrel may have reached its limit. Hence, I have decided to replace the barrel.

Here are my questions:

Which barrel blank should I choose? I am considering Bartlein and contemplating the barrel contour. On one hand, I aim to reduce weight, while on the other, to make long-range and accurate shots. I seek your advice on whether to opt for Palma Contours or Straight Taper/Match Contours, specifically looking at options such as Heavy Varmint, Light Varmint, MTU, Heavy Palma, Medium Palma, and others.

Barrel length: 26 inches or 28 inches? Given the impossibility of fluting in our workshop, weight reduction through milling channels is not feasible. I aspire to achieve higher bullet speeds without overburdening the barrel to maintain its longevity, while also ensuring portability.

I would appreciate your perspectives on this matter, especially from those with experience in replacing the barrel on a Cadex CDX-30. How worthwhile is it to chase additional speed per inch?

With respect, Tihan.

 

[Dogtown]

26" is generally considered the best optimized barrel length for velocity. You can go faster with 28-30" but I've found it's not that much of an increase. The barrel profile really depends on how important weight is for you. If you're hunting and have to lug around a rifle for hours/days, then a lighter profile shorter barrel makes sense. If you're shooting competition where maybe weight isn't as important as recoil reduction, then a heavy profile long barrel makes sense.

 

[Geno C.]

If you’re after speed, a 47 might not be the best choice in 6.5 chamberings

 

[serg tihan]

If you’re after speed, a 47 might not be the best choice in 6.5 chamberings

I have 6.5 CM with 915mps A-tip 135Gr. (Rem 700). CDX-30 is my second rifle.
In my country, it's hard to change barrels very often. Hope, that with 6.5x47, barrel life will be more longer. In addition, working distances will be up to 1 km. For 1 - 1.4 km - 6.5 CM.

 

[Geno C.]

If you’re after long barrel life, don’t chase speed.

 

[serg tihan]

26" is generally considered the best optimized barrel length for velocity. You can go faster with 28-30" but I've found it's not that much of an increase. The barrel profile really depends on how important weight is for you. If you're hunting and have to lug around a rifle for hours/days, then a lighter profile shorter barrel makes sense. If you're shooting competition where maybe weight isn't as important as recoil reduction, then a heavy profile long barrel makes sense.

Thank you for your reply, Dogtown.
Trying to describe my tasks, although they are quite situational. Currently, I am training, and in the future, I may try to participate in competitions. My targets are paper. The distances are in the range of 300-1100 m nearby. In winter, there can be 1400 m. However, to reach the shooting location, it is necessary to walk, sometimes 3-5 km. Therefore, weight matters. At the same time, considering the desire to shoot accurately, I want to extract the maximum benefit from the assembled complex. I even do not exclude that someday I will come to hunting. If it were a narrow task, like the F-class, there would be fewer questions. In this case, I want to get something universal, but at the same time - of high quality.

 

[Dogtown]

Then I would suggest a 24" barrel with a Medium Palma contour or something similar. That would give you a lighter rifle but something that's still capable of shooting 130-145gr bullets out past 1000m.

 

[serg tihan]

After reading topic several times and analyzing loading ELDM 140 Gr (H4350) ammunition, here's the breakdown:

1. .010 off the lands - - 2.742 COAL
2. COAL is 2.736" to 2.716"
3. COAL 2.723" (.010" off lands)

In my situation, the point of contact has a COAL of 2.825”. And the point of safe bite (longer charge, the bolt is closed 10-20 times, while the length of the charge is reduced by resting on the rifling) has a COAL of 2.914".
Hence the question. Look for pile in the jump, smaller (.010" off lands) COAL 2.815" or go far into the jump, say below 2.800" and move down? If so, at what pitch? By the book, .003" even from 2.800” to 2.700 ” will be more than 30 steps. I want to understand how to be.

So far I've gone from 2.885" to 2.805" in 0.005" increments, but couldn't repeat a consistent and good result.
I already thought that the size of COAL was too large.
I would like to understand in what size to look for +- a good result.

 

[NELAshooter]

I'm really curious what your 6.5x47 barrel length and velocity with the 135 atip was?

I’m sorry for the late response. I stopped messing with the 6.5x47 Lapua load there to work on the 6mm BR that I built. I’m most likely going to start over with it my next trip home. I have some N150 to test with it when I get back in as well.

 

[diggler1833]

Update: My "go-to" load for my favorite x47 opened up to a little over half-MOA for several consecutive groups at 100 - 300. Tried seating back out another .010, and it appears to be back to normal. Looks like I'll have to stay on top of seating depth every few hundred rounds. Some guys get a depth and can keep it for the life of a barrel apparently. I got accuracy degradation at about 300 rounds with this one.

It's a picky barrel, but when you get in the window it hammers.

I'm sure a fluke group due to only 5 shots, but it typically hangs around 3/8 minute...which is all I'm good for as a shooter off a bipod and rear bag. I shot the old depth just before this and it was a .6 almost on the nose.

 

[Niles Coyote]

150 rounds down the new rebarrel from Fosnaugh Custom Rifles. A Bartlein Barrel mod400 at 25 inches and 1.20" straight no taper.

My Hornady 135 grain A-tips arrived today so I loaded up some with Varget, set the jump to .055" in brand new Peterson brass and lit them off with CCI 450's. Four groups of 5 across 2 grains averaged .303 moa thanks for a sweet shooting rig Eddie!

http://www.fosnaughcustoms.com