7-6.5 PRC

[Elite_KG]

Call JGS and they can provide you with the revisions to body dimensions Alex has released. Things like freebore will be up you and dependent upon your bullet selection. I had to get my own reamer b/c Alex’s print is set-up for basically single feed from a short action.

PS - if you strike out I can share my 7-6.5 PRC reamer spec, but it’s set-up to run in a medium action.

 

[Blkbird6]

Call JGS and they can provide you with the revisions to body dimensions Alex has released. Things like freebore will be up you and dependent upon your bullet selection. I had to get my own reamer b/c Alex’s print is set-up for basically single feed from a short action.

PS - if you strike out I can share my 7-6.5 PRC reamer spec, but it’s set-up to run in a medium action.

I am all hooked up with the correct reamer!! thanks chaps!!

 

[Rockdoc173]

Unfortunately time does not permit me to see this project through. If you want to hit an easy go-button on a 7/6.5PRC, here it is

 

[Elite_KG]

28 TAC (7-6.5 PRC Medium Action) is coming to life! Lots of Cerakote to come.

175 Berger Elite Hunter

This was a reamer I spec’d just for this loading length. Has all the AW improvements plus some other slight changes.

 

[Elite_KG]

In the works…should have it finished tomorrow. Hopefully early enough to test fire!

 

[st1650]

What would be the coal if you were loading the 162s ? Could you keep it under 2.99in to feed in a short action ? I have a spare magnum bolt head and thinking about either 7-6.5PRC or 6.8 Western. Or maybe someone will make a 6.8-6.5 PRC so that we don’t have to use the shit brass from Winchester.

 

[Elite_KG]

What would be the coal if you were loading the 162s ? Could you keep it under 2.99in to feed in a short action ? I have a spare magnum bolt head and thinking about either 7-6.5PRC or 6.8 Western. Or maybe someone will make a 6.8-6.5 PRC so that we don’t have to use the shit brass from Winchester.

I’ll have to check

 

[st1650]

I’ll have to check

Thanks. Still thinking it should be more than enough room for 162/166 atips and then maybe even the Berger 175 elite hunter.

 

[Jackomason]

Thanks. Still thinking it should be more than enough room for 162/166 atips and then maybe even the Berger 175 elite hunter.

I think this is spot on. The 180s sit so far into the case in a short action but even with that they still out preform on wind for elr shooting. I was able to comfortably push the 180 eldm at 2820fps.

The 162 class bullets have nothing holding them back. 3000fps is managble.

 

[st1650]

I think this is spot on. The 180s sit so far into the case in a short action but even with that they still out preform on wind for elr shooting. I was able to comfortably push the 180 eldm at 2820fps.

The 162 class bullets have nothing holding them back. 3000fps is managble.

Less recoil on the 160s and also possibly flatter to 500-600yards which would be my max hunting range anyways. If I want to go with the 180s/190 I’d do a 7-300PRC on my DTA.

 

[Elite_KG]

Ready to go!

Pillars and bedding are perfect. Feeds like butter!

Test loads are cut and waiting to load!!!

Can’t wait.

 

[Elite_KG]

Thanks. Still thinking it should be more than enough room for 162/166 atips and then maybe even the Berger 175 elite hunter.

I have a 168 loaded to lands. I will measire the COAL tomorrow. Spent themwdtee
Qq
A
Qqqqp

I’ll have to check

Berger 168 Classic Hunter to lands 2.886”

Berger 180 VLD Hunting to lands 3.065”

 

[Elite_KG]

I got 2886 fps with the 180 VLD Hunting before I saw a sign of pressure. Very slight ejector mark. It was the hottest load I had at 58.1 grains of N-555.

I was targeting 2900 fps by design.

(Update - I settled for 2850 fps balancing pressure and accuracy)

 

[Jackomason]

Took the 7-6.5 PRC out to 1507 yards yesterday. It shot really well considering the compromised positions I was shooting from. I think if I get a chance to shoot on good ground it'll really shine. Sadly I haven't done as much load development as I had hoped so I just ran the 162 eldm at 2950~ using imr4350.

Cold bore hit at 1379 and first round impact at 1507. It was a little scattered from there but I was on a bad slope laying on some weird rocks.

I'll be shooting some kind of ELR match this month with the same load. I'll update with how it preformed.

There's a good chance I'll start single feeding and be happy. I'm putting together a 300 Norma mag so this could become a budget alternative when I want a challenge.

 

[Good Boi]

Hoping to hear more on these builds. Curious about the PVA 7/6.5 barrel vs the Blue Mountain. I'm considering getting a Zermatt medium action and I don't know if PVA's would spec well with a MA or if it'll only do well on a SA. I love the idea of being able to use MDT MA 6.5 PRC mags for 10 rounds of 7/6.5 PRC where as 7 PRC would only have 5 in a CIP mag. I know that AI makes a 10 round magnum CIP mag so I could just go 7 PRC for 10 rounds, but that magazine looks insanely long (haven't been able to find a spec on the length yet). The MDT MA mag looks much more manageable. Additionally, I'm thinking the MDT MA 30.06 mags can likely run 308 and 6.5 CM without issues.

However, I wouldn't say 7 SAUM brass is unobtanium, yet. You'd likely be using ADG brass instead of Lapua. Will most shooters notice a difference in brass quality? I think 7 SAUM ADG brass may offer more grains vs 6.5 PRC brass necked up to 7mm. That should give extra velocity and ADG is still quality stuff.

I'm also wondering if it's even worth it for a 7mm... 156 gr 6.5 PRC factory Berger ammo has less drop and wind drift at 1000 yards and you're only giving up ~75 ft lb of energy. I know 7 PRCW, 7/6.5 PRC, 7 SAUM, and all the similar variants are very popular in F Class but I'm too ignorant to understand why they aren't shooting 6.5 PRC... Something must be going on in real life that the calculator isn't accounting for.

 

[4O6shootist]

@Good Boi the problem I see in the 7/65 prc is the large potential for Donuts at the neck. Since you're necking up, shoulder brass which is thicker will have to become neck brass. You'll either be inside or outside neck turning that off. The Saum holds 74gr, 7/65 prc is likely around 70. The non rebated prc case may feed better in some applications. The cases trim length are both 2.020 so coal with only be determined by freebore and bullet selection. Now that Peterson and ADG are both going to have 7saum brass, I see no reason to with a wildcat.

 

[Jackomason]

Yesterday I shot the 7-6.5 PRC in a match against a lot of 300 norma mags and other large magnums. There were a lot of small targets at some decent distance. My gun ran about as well as anyone else'.

I think if the match pushed out past 1 mile it would have been a different story but we were all struggling to hit the 9" targets at 1500 yards.

@Good Boi the problem I see in the 7/65 prc is the large potential for Donuts at the neck. Since you're necking up, shoulder brass which is thicker will have to become neck brass. You'll either be inside or outside neck turning that off. The Saum holds 74gr, 7/65 prc is likely around 70. The non rebated prc case may feed better in some applications. The cases trim length are both 2.020 so coal with only be determined by freebore and bullet selection. Now that Peterson and ADG are both going to have 7saum brass, I see no reason to with a wildcat.

ADG has been making SAUM brass for a while, but it's still hard to find.

I've only ridden the struggle bus with peterson brass.

Hoping to hear more on these builds. Curious about the PVA 7/6.5 barrel vs the Blue Mountain. I'm considering getting a Zermatt medium action and I don't know if PVA's would spec well with a MA or if it'll only do well on a SA. I love the idea of being able to use MDT MA 6.5 PRC mags for 10 rounds of 7/6.5 PRC where as 7 PRC would only have 5 in a CIP mag. I know that AI makes a 10 round magnum CIP mag so I could just go 7 PRC for 10 rounds, but that magazine looks insanely long (haven't been able to find a spec on the length yet). The MDT MA mag looks much more manageable. Additionally, I'm thinking the MDT MA 30.06 mags can likely run 308 and 6.5 CM without issues.

However, I wouldn't say 7 SAUM brass is unobtanium, yet. You'd likely be using ADG brass instead of Lapua. Will most shooters notice a difference in brass quality? I think 7 SAUM ADG brass may offer more grains vs 6.5 PRC brass necked up to 7mm. That should give extra velocity and ADG is still quality stuff.

I'm also wondering if it's even worth it for a 7mm... 156 gr 6.5 PRC factory Berger ammo has less drop and wind drift at 1000 yards and you're only giving up ~75 ft lb of energy. I know 7 PRCW, 7/6.5 PRC, 7 SAUM, and all the similar variants are very popular in F Class but I'm too ignorant to understand why they aren't shooting 6.5 PRC... Something must be going on in real life that the calculator isn't accounting for.

I'll find out my max CBTO and COAL today, I've never worried about it because ive been wanting to use a magazine. So far the only bullets that have liked the crazy jump are the 162 eld x/m. But josh/pva did tell me that their chamber is long for the 180's.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

7 SAUM brass is obtainable right here, right now... buy enough for a barrel or two and don't worry again....

ADG 7mm Short Action Ultra Magnum Brass

Product Information Cartridge: 7mm Short Action Ultra Magnum Brass (7mm SAUM) Finish: Brass (Standard) Condition: New Quantity: 50 Primed: No Primer Size: Large Primer Pocket *This is not loaded ammunition.

www.bluecollarreloading.com

 

[Good Boi]

@Good Boi the problem I see in the 7/65 prc is the large potential for Donuts at the neck. Since you're necking up, shoulder brass which is thicker will have to become neck brass. You'll either be inside or outside neck turning that off. The Saum holds 74gr, 7/65 prc is likely around 70. The non rebated prc case may feed better in some applications. The cases trim length are both 2.020 so coal with only be determined by freebore and bullet selection. Now that Peterson and ADG are both going to have 7saum brass, I see no reason to with a wildcat.

I want to say that Erik Cortina doesn't neck turn, if I remember correctly. It probably comes down to the reamer and if it's designed for no neck turn. As for the donuts, I'm not too knowledgeable on this but I'm wondering if it could be avoided by using a 6.5mm mandrel first on new brass (as it comes tight to begin with) and then using a 7mm mandrel OR buying something like 21stCentury's neck up mandrel that's extra long and designed specifically for necking up brass.

 

[4O6shootist]

I want to say that Erik Cortina doesn't neck turn, if I remember correctly. It probably comes down to the reamer and if it's designed for no neck turn. As for the donuts, I'm not too knowledgeable on this but I'm wondering if it could be avoided by using a 6.5mm mandrel first on new brass (as it comes tight to begin with) and then using a 7mm mandrel OR buying something like 21stCentury's neck up mandrel that's extra long and designed specifically for necking up brass.

Geometry, shoulder brass has to become neck brass at the base. Perhaps lapua has shoulder brass that's same thickness as the neck, it's possible. I know this is why typically it's easier to neck down than up, this phenomenon doesn't occur, but in some instances, neck thickening occurs as the extra neck brass in the neck down process has to go somewhere. I've necked 6mm to 25 cal, and perhaps it's such a small change there wasn't a lot brass to cause a donut and I was using a bushing die that doesn't fully size the base of the neck anyways. Reamers can be made to accommodate for the extra brass. You just have to ensure the extra brass is pushed to the outside, or you're not seating the bullet through the inside donut, if it hasn't been pushed out with a mandrel.

 

[Good Boi]

Erik just released his sizing dies and they take bushings similar to SAC where they can bump the shoulder back too. Would this type of bushing help?

I was wondering last night why 300 WSM isn't being necked down to 7mm... it appears its based on Lapua brass and availability of 6.5 PRC.

 

[4O6shootist]

Erik just released his sizing dies and they take bushings similar to SAC where they can bump the shoulder back too. Would this type of bushing help?

I was wondering last night why 300 WSM isn't being necked down to 7mm... it appears its based on Lapua brass and availability of 6.5 PRC.

Plenty have done the 7 300wsm, and it's more viable now than ever since there is quality adg brass. Norma and all other brands were soft. Just ensure you have adequate freebore to keep the bearing surface above the neck shoulder junction, because donuts will likely occur. A friend of mine shoots one, it's a great case, although it doesn't do a lot more than a 7saum, maybe a maximum of another 70-100fps with equal weight bullets. Idk if the neck/shoulder bushing design will help the brass flow from the necking up operation. I know using a FL die helps in neck down operation, usually forces the brass growth straight forward creating longer necks.

 

[Jackomason]

Guys like Eric and F-Class John don't need to neck turn because they seat the bullets far enough out to avoid the neck/shoulder junction. I ended up turning my necks down, it's a pain but not the end of the world.

Also didn't have any problems expanding once fired 6.5 PRC brass or virgin Lapua brass.

 

[Good Boi]

This may be a stupid question (I'm sure I'm full of them as I'm new to this stuff) but how close is 7-6.5 PRC brass to 7 SAUM? Could you trim and fireform it in a 7 SAUM chamber or something? 7 SAUM seems to be what people want but are doing the 7-6.5 PRC because they want Lapua brass. If it's possible to fireform it in the 7 SAUM chamber then you'd get a little more h2o capacity, I think.

 

[4O6shootist]

This may be a stupid question (I'm sure I'm full of them as I'm new to this stuff) but how close is 7-6.5 PRC brass to 7 SAUM? Could you trim and fireform it in a 7 SAUM chamber or something? 7 SAUM seems to be what people want but are doing the 7-6.5 PRC because they want Lapua brass. If it's possible to fireform it in the 7 SAUM chamber then you'd get a little more h2o capacity, I think.

7saum chamber is 552 at base, rebated rim cartridge. Prc is 533 non rebated rim, they DO NOT play well together.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

And you can get top notch ADG brass for 7 SAUM, made right here in the USA.

 

[Elite_KG]

What is a good average velocity for a 7 SAUM running 180 gr bullet from a 22” barrel? I’m curious about how my 28 TAC (7-6.5 PRC medium action length) compares. It is a chambering I worked up and had a reamer made to my print specifications.

Thanks!

 

[Jackomason]

Hoping to hear more on these builds. Curious about the PVA 7/6.5 barrel vs the Blue Mountain. I'm considering getting a Zermatt medium action and I don't know if PVA's would spec well with a MA or if it'll only do well on a SA. I love the idea of being able to use MDT MA 6.5 PRC mags for 10 rounds of 7/6.5 PRC where as 7 PRC would only have 5 in a CIP mag. I know that AI makes a 10 round magnum CIP mag so I could just go 7 PRC for 10 rounds, but that magazine looks insanely long (haven't been able to find a spec on the length yet). The MDT MA mag looks much more manageable. Additionally, I'm thinking the MDT MA 30.06 mags can likely run 308 and 6.5 CM without issues.

However, I wouldn't say 7 SAUM brass is unobtanium, yet. You'd likely be using ADG brass instead of Lapua. Will most shooters notice a difference in brass quality? I think 7 SAUM ADG brass may offer more grains vs 6.5 PRC brass necked up to 7mm. That should give extra velocity and ADG is still quality stuff.

I'm also wondering if it's even worth it for a 7mm... 156 gr 6.5 PRC factory Berger ammo has less drop and wind drift at 1000 yards and you're only giving up ~75 ft lb of energy. I know 7 PRCW, 7/6.5 PRC, 7 SAUM, and all the similar variants are very popular in F Class but I'm too ignorant to understand why they aren't shooting 6.5 PRC... Something must be going on in real life that the calculator isn't accounting for.

Sorry it's taken a little bit, made a point to find the lands.

COAL @ the lands with 180 ELDM was 3.100"

As best I can measure, the freebore is .265" +/- (from fired case mouth to ogive)

I'm not too worried about running .100"+ jump but the 180s seem to not like it as much as the 162's. Berger 180 hybrids seem to not like it either.

 

[Good Boi]

About how far out do you have to seat bullets to avoid the neck/shoulder junction?

I'm thinking about building a 7 SAUM, 7-6.5 PRC, or 7 MAX on a medium action so I'm not concerned about the COAL fitting in a SA mag, but I also don't know what to order and how to order it (amount of freebore, etc).

Did you have PVA add freebore to your your barrel? What was your COAL @ the lands with 180 Hybrid Bergers?

As a side question, if the 7 SAUM and its variants have such huge success because of the efficiency of going from a .470 bolt face to a .540 why aren't we seeing .585 bolt face cartridge that's between 7 SAUM and 7 PRC length?

 

[Jackomason]

At this point, I've just now "found the lands" with the 180 eldm. So not sure on the hybrids.

Im well into the neck shoulder junction even at 3.100" (maybe .075-.100 past) the base of the bullet is pretty close to the shoulder body junction.

I'm going to play some with h4831 and see if I can make the 180s shoot.

But really, the 162's are hammering. Was able to snag 2nd at the ELR match. That doesn't mean a whole lot considering the match but I was shooting next to much more capable rifles. So with that, I'm both impressed and happy with the preformance of this 7-6.5 PRC.

 

[Good Boi]

Hmm, Benjamin from PVA said he thinks their 7/6.5 PRC reamer is cutting a .160" FB. That's quite the difference from you measurement.

 

[Jackomason]

Hmm, Benjamin from PVA said he thinks their 7/6.5 PRC reamer is cutting a .160" FB. That's quite the difference from you measurement.

I could be wrong, I don't mess with freebore measurments much. I used the case neck to the marking of the lands on the bullet when seated to the lands.

 

[Good Boi]

Benjamin could also be mistaking their FB or their FB may also changed.

 

[Jackomason]

That would make sense to me. I'd change it. .100" past SA mag length is kinda useless.

 

[b6graham]

What is a good average velocity for a 7 SAUM running 180 gr bullet from a 22” barrel? I’m curious about how my 28 TAC (7-6.5 PRC medium action length) compares. It is a chambering I worked up and had a reamer made to my print specifications.

Thanks!

SCR had a recent post on an antelope kill. 21" with 180s at 2880 from a 7SAUM

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

The 6.5PRC with 7mm bullet has caught my eye.

I have read through the entire thread and I am still unsure of whether this cartridge is better suited to a short action of long action (or indeed medium which has limited options)? Does that depend on COAL? I would want to seat the bullet beyond the problematic doughnut area so does that mean short action is out?

Anyone know what the advantages disadvantages are between 7FCP vs 7PRCW? Or is it like coke & pepsi?

Everyone seems to mention the Berger 180 hybrids for this round, is that the best bet? I can get my hands on 184 hybrids - will they work?

Any lastly, does anyone have any idea on what barrel life a guy can expect with one of the 6.5PRC necked up to 7mm options?

 

[Jackomason]

The 6.5PRC with 7mm bullet has caught my eye.

I have read through the entire thread and I am still unsure of whether this cartridge is better suited to a short action of long action (or indeed medium which has limited options)? Does that depend on COAL? I would want to seat the bullet beyond the problematic doughnut area so does that mean short action is out?

Anyone know what the advantages disadvantages are between 7FCP vs 7PRCW? Or is it like coke & pepsi?

Everyone seems to mention the Berger 180 hybrids for this round, is that the best bet? I can get my hands on 184 hybrids - will they work?

Any lastly, does anyone have any idea on what barrel life a guy can expect with one of the 6.5PRC necked up to 7mm options?

If you want to avoid seating past doughnuts then you can't use a short action or just neck turn. (It sucks)

I'm not sure what or if wheeler did anything to the shoulders but I know he was pretty focused on clickers and having the web area large enough to get squeezed by the die. But Eric Cortina just released mandrel dies that will squeeze at the base too.

The FCP has the shoulder set forward to give some more capacity. Probably an angle change too. Someone here can probably give specifics if you can't find them elsewhere.

180's are the go to bullet for F-class, for steel I'm not convinced it matters all that much. Maybe in ELR but I've still gotta convince myself of that. I'd imagine 184's wouldn't be a stretch in the 2750-2800 range in the standard 7-6.5.

Barrel life should be 1500-2500. That's pretty broad but you have people ripping of 20 shots fairly quickly in F-class while others shoot like turtles... if turtles could shoot. I expect 2000+ out of mine.

 

[Frank Green]

F class type shooting your looking at a barrel life of 800 rounds.

We do have in process making an ammunition pressure test barrel for 7/6.5PRC. Barrel twist is 1-8 and the finish length will be 32". 5R rifling.

Why 32" finish length. Because 30" and 32" is the most common in F Class. I'll say 32" is more so.

Hornady, Sierra supplied bullets and Hornady supplied brass for the testing. I'll be loading all the ammo along with some bullets that I'm supplying as well.

Bullets that will be tested will be 166 and 190gr Atips, 183 and 197SMK's and 180gr Berger's.

Why Hornady supplied brass? It's 6.5PRC brass that I will neck up but the reason for Hornady supplied brass is because they will already have calibration numbers for that lot of brass. The closer everything is known the better the pressure and velocity numbers will be.

Besides recording the lot of brass, I will be recording bullet lot numbers, primer lot numbers, type of powder and powder lot numbers as well.

I just cut the test barrel order like 3 weeks ago. Not scheduled to be done until Feb. for the test barrel. Which I'm still waiting for my dies along with I have to scrounge up more powder and I'm waiting for brass to get here as well.

I've got ADG brass coming also and I'll load some for a reference check but the primary brass that will be used is again the Hornady brass due to calibration numbers.

We're doing the test barrel at n/c. Hornady will do all the pressure testing at n/c along with components supplied by Hornady and Sierra like I said and they did that at n/c as well.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Good Boi]

I believe the 7FCP has a 40 degree shoulder, so more case capacity and less case trimming. However, you’ll have to fire form your brass since no one makes this.

The cartridge shines with a medium action imo. You’re bottle necking yourself in a SA and a LA is overkill for the COAL. If you’re happy shooting 6.5 PRC and 7/6.5PRC and whatever similar thing there may come then get the MA. I’m about to test running 6.5 CM on a MA also using MDT 30.06 mags. Hoping it works because I can use that as a trainer and then go to 7/6.5 PRC. The extra space in the mag looks to what I’d imagine a 6.5 PRC would have in a CIP LA magazine. If you want an action that can also do 7 PRC and 300 PRC then you’ll want the LA but you’ll lose 5 round mag capacity running LA vs MA mags (unless you decide to get the ungodly long CIP LA 10 round mags). If you run it on a MA or LA you want to make sure your barrel is set up for it. Current PVA offering is set up for a SA so you’ll run into COAL limitations unless you send them dummy rounds so that they can add more room.

As for barrel life, it’s going to be better than 6.5 PRC but how much better also depends on your load.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

F class type shooting your looking at a barrel life of 800 rounds.

We do have in process making an ammunition pressure test barrel for 7/6.5PRC. Barrel twist is 1-8 and the finish length will be 32". 5R rifling.

Why 32" finish length. Because 30" and 32" is the most common in F Class. I'll say 32" is more so.

Hornady, Sierra supplied bullets and Hornady supplied brass for the testing. I'll be loading all the ammo along with some bullets that I'm supplying as well.

Bullets that will be tested will be 166 and 190gr Atips, 183 and 197SMK's and 180gr Berger's.

Why Hornady supplied brass? It's 6.5PRC brass that I will neck up but the reason for Hornady supplied brass is because they will already have calibration numbers for that lot of brass. The closer everything is known the better the pressure and velocity numbers will be.

Besides recording the lot of brass, I will be recording bullet lot numbers, primer lot numbers, type of powder and powder lot numbers as well.

I just cut the test barrel order like 3 weeks ago. Not scheduled to be done until Feb. for the test barrel. Which I'm still waiting for my dies along with I have to scrounge up more powder and I'm waiting for brass to get here as well.

I've got ADG brass coming also and I'll load some for a reference check but the primary brass that will be used is again the Hornady brass due to calibration numbers.

We're doing the test barrel at n/c. Hornady will do all the pressure testing at n/c along with components supplied by Hornady and Sierra like I said and they did that at n/c as well.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

800 is pretty low, but long strings of fire in a relatively short time at matches which generally happen is hot conditions is not conducive to long barrel life I guess.

Would your improved steel offer more life on this application (400MODBB)?

Looking forward to your test results - have you decided which version you are going with (6.5 PRCW / 6.5FCP etc etc)?

Forgot to say, 800 is pretty low when you factor is fire forming (for 7FCP or similar) - I have found that I need 300 for longer matches so thats 300 rounds just to fire form, then there is load development - half the barrel life could be chewed up before you ever get to a match!

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

I believe the 7FCP has a 40 degree shoulder, so more case capacity and less case trimming. However, you’ll have to fire form your brass since no one makes this.

The cartridge shines with a medium action imo. You’re bottle necking yourself in a SA and a LA is overkill for the COAL. If you’re happy shooting 6.5 PRC and 7/6.5PRC and whatever similar thing there may come then get the MA. I’m about to test running 6.5 CM on a MA also using MDT 30.06 mags. Hoping it works because I can use that as a trainer and then go to 7/6.5 PRC. The extra space in the mag looks to what I’d imagine a 6.5 PRC would have in a CIP LA magazine. If you want an action that can also do 7 PRC and 300 PRC then you’ll want the LA but you’ll lose 5 round mag capacity running LA vs MA mags (unless you decide to get the ungodly long CIP LA 10 round mags). If you run it on a MA or LA you want to make sure your barrel is set up for it. Current PVA offering is set up for a SA so you’ll run into COAL limitations unless you send them dummy rounds so that they can add more room.

As for barrel life, it’s going to be better than 6.5 PRC but how much better also depends on your load.

So if the medium action is the best fit who makes them? From memory I have only seen one in a Defiance, are there others?

A long action would give more options in the future providing it worked correctly for the 6.5 / 7mm hybrid. I have short actions I could use (Impact & Terminus Zeus QC) but if it limits me on cartridge length that is a problem (I feel like the bullet needs to stay above the donut area to avoid issues and I really want to avoid neck turning), but as this will be a dedicated F Class cartridge the rounds will be single fed anyways (no magazine length restrictions)

I notice 7FCP offers a no neck turn reamer, from what I have read to date they seem to be the best all round fit for what I want.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

If you want to avoid seating past doughnuts then you can't use a short action or just neck turn. (It sucks)

I'm not sure what or if wheeler did anything to the shoulders but I know he was pretty focused on clickers and having the web area large enough to get squeezed by the die. But Eric Cortina just released mandrel dies that will squeeze at the base too.

The FCP has the shoulder set forward to give some more capacity. Probably an angle change too. Someone here can probably give specifics if you can't find them elsewhere.

180's are the go to bullet for F-class, for steel I'm not convinced it matters all that much. Maybe in ELR but I've still gotta convince myself of that. I'd imagine 184's wouldn't be a stretch in the 2750-2800 range in the standard 7-6.5.

Barrel life should be 1500-2500. That's pretty broad but you have people ripping of 20 shots fairly quickly in F-class while others shoot like turtles... if turtles could shoot. I expect 2000+ out of mine.

What if single feeding (like in F Class)? In theory one could load beyond the doughnut and not have to deal with it.

I`m not sure what a clicker is? Sounds like something that happens when the brass isn't sized all the way to the base?

You are correct, from what I have read the FCP does get blown out for more case capacity and has a 40 degree shoulder. The extra case capacity takes into 7 SAUM territory.

This will be a dedicated F Class build, I have a 6BR rig that I use for PRS and currently F Class but it gets blown around too much in the windy 1000 yard matches.

I could live with 1500 - 2500 rounds for a barrel, guess these haven't been around long enough to know for sure.

 

[Frank Green]

800 is pretty low, but long strings of fire in a relatively short time at matches which generally happen is hot conditions is not conducive to long barrel life I guess.

Would your improved steel offer more life on this application (400MODBB)?

Looking forward to your test results - have you decided which version you are going with (6.5 PRCW / 6.5FCP etc etc)?

Forgot to say, 800 is pretty low when you factor is fire forming (for 7FCP or similar) - I have found that I need 300 for longer matches so thats 300 rounds just to fire form, then there is load development - half the barrel life could be chewed up before you ever get to a match!

Any version of a 7 Short mag in F class and about 800 rounds is it. Same as 7Rem. Short mag or the 270wsm/300wsm necked to 7mm. My buddy John's 7/270wsm he's running his 180gr bullets at 3170fps. Barrels are junk around 800 and change for him. Your not getting a 1k rounds out of this caliber on a F open gun normally. Now on a hunting rifle or a casual target rifle where your not getting it smoking hot.... you can easily get more life out of it.

We've got 3 new barrels we are putting on our own rifles.... All BB material. Yes it should help.

If it's taking you 300 rounds to settle on a load.... that seems like a lot? At least in my opinion.

My chamber of the 7/6.5PRC is pretty close to the Wheeler chamber. Throat is like .015" difference and the freebore diameter is slightly different but like I said.... they are pretty close.

 

[Jackomason]

I'm having a hard time seeing 800 as well but barrel life is pretty subjective, I'm also not shooting tiny groups like they do.

I've got both mag fed and single feed loads for mine, I just accept the long jump and mag load lighter bullets.

My single feed load seems pretty happy .035" off with 180 ELDms. I've got some 180 hybrids I'd like to try but we'll see if I get to it. The real bummer is that at .035" off the lands I'm only .100" too long to fit in a mag.

The word "clicker" comes from case being tight so the primary extraction is difficult and the bolt clicks pretty hard. Like you said, this is caused by cases not being sized enough for the chamber near the base of the case. The spec for chambers and dies coming from Hornady have caused this problem a few times.

 

[rymart]

The 6.5PRC with 7mm bullet has caught my eye.

I have read through the entire thread and I am still unsure of whether this cartridge is better suited to a short action of long action (or indeed medium which has limited options)? Does that depend on COAL? I would want to seat the bullet beyond the problematic doughnut area so does that mean short action is out?

Anyone know what the advantages disadvantages are between 7FCP vs 7PRCW? Or is it like coke & pepsi?

Everyone seems to mention the Berger 180 hybrids for this round, is that the best bet? I can get my hands on 184 hybrids - will they work?

Any lastly, does anyone have any idea on what barrel life a guy can expect with one of the 6.5PRC necked up to 7mm options?

I can answer a few of the above questions. My barrel is a 26” from PVA in 7/6.5 PRC, purchased new from the hide classifieds, not directly from PVA FWIW. Its on an American Rifle Company Nucleus short action, shooting magazine fed. Using ARC magazines with the feed lips slightly altered for the larger case diameter. Feeds reliably at up to ~ 2.950” COAL. Regular 10-rd ARC mag holds 6 rounds of 7/6.5 PRC, and one with a mag extension holds 8 rounds.

184 F-Open hybrids work great for me. My measurements on the 184’s were 3.154” to-the-lands, 0.204” jump to magazine feed at 2.950” COAL. Great accuracy in this rig with 200+ thousandths jump. Took 1st place in the Light/Hunter division of the 2023 Nightforce ELR match with this rifle, cartridge, and bullet.

 

[st1650]

I can answer a few of the above questions. My barrel is a 26” from PVA in 7/6.5 PRC, purchased new from the hide classifieds, not directly from PVA FWIW. Its on an American Rifle Company Nucleus short action, shooting magazine fed. Using ARC magazines with the feed lips slightly altered for the larger case diameter. Feeds reliably at up to ~ 2.950” COAL. Regular 10-rd ARC mag holds 6 rounds of 7/6.5 PRC, and one with a mag extension holds 8 rounds.

184 F-Open hybrids work great for me. My measurements on the 184’s were 3.154” to-the-lands, 0.204” jump to magazine feed at 2.950” COAL. Great accuracy in this rig with 200+ thousandths jump. Took 1st place in the Light/Hunter division of the 2023 Nightforce ELR match with this rifle, cartridge, and bullet.

Good to know, I'm also planning a build with a ARC Archmedes Short Action and was planning to use mostly the 162/166 but nice to see that the 180s are good with that jump.

 

[wind gypsy]

What is a good average velocity for a 7 SAUM running 180 gr bullet from a 22” barrel? I’m curious about how my 28 TAC (7-6.5 PRC medium action length) compares. It is a chambering I worked up and had a reamer made to my print specifications.

Thanks!

I've seen 2800-2850 in a couple 22" 7 SAUMs with 0.200" freebore to load long with H1000. Could have eeked out a little more with RL26 i'm sure. I assume this is a pretty warm load, didn't push it till i had bad pressure signs.

 

[rymart]

Continued...

Maxed out at slightly under 2800 fps with H4831 powder and at over 2860 fps with RL23. Went with 57.4 gr of RL23 at ~ 2830 fps. This load shoots incredibly tight vertical at 1000 - 2000 yards. Unknown yet what will happen as the throat erodes without being able to chase the lands due to magazine feed restraints. About 200 rounds in on this load and it’s still shooting awesome. FWIW, the 184 Hybrids out of this rig have performed well on elk also…

Can’t say for sure whether the 184’s will sit above or below the donut in a medium action, but as I took length-to-land measurements for various bullets it seemed that the PVA reamer (at least as-cut in my Nucleus Pre-fit barrel) would be optimal for a medium action.

FWIW, I neck turned my brass (Lapua) since I’m seating well into the neck-shoulder junction. If I recall correctly (written down somewhere) I turned the virgin 6.5 PRC brass with a 30* cutter, barely touching the necks (just trimming off a few high spots) and turned into the neck a bit more than you normally would. Then expanded the necks to 7mm with an expander mandrel, ran the expanded brass through a SAC FL sizing die with 0.310“ neck/shoulder bushing (to sharpen the neck/shoulder junction after expanding), then turned it again, this time skimming the necks a bit more (removing approximately 40% - 70% of the high-spots, forget the targeted neck thickness but goal was not to make the necks thinner, just more uniform and to remove potential donuts), this time barely turning into the shoulder as is customary.

 

[beetroot]

So if the medium action is the best fit who makes them? From memory I have only seen one in a Defiance, are there others?

A long action would give more options in the future providing it worked correctly for the 6.5 / 7mm hybrid. I have short actions I could use (Impact & Terminus Zeus QC) but if it limits me on cartridge length that is a problem (I feel like the bullet needs to stay above the donut area to avoid issues and I really want to avoid neck turning), but as this will be a dedicated F Class cartridge the rounds will be single fed anyways (no magazine length restrictions)

I notice 7FCP offers a no neck turn reamer, from what I have read to date they seem to be the best all round fit for what I want.

It sounds like you are searching for the holy grail like everyone else, 284win performance with 180s from a SA, without the need to a crazy amount of brass prep.

I cant offer any advice but I hope you find an answer, as I would also like to know what it is.

 

[Frank Green]

I'm having a hard time seeing 800 as well but barrel life is pretty subjective, I'm also not shooting tiny groups like they do.

I've got both mag fed and single feed loads for mine, I just accept the long jump and mag load lighter bullets.

My single feed load seems pretty happy .035" off with 180 ELDms. I've got some 180 hybrids I'd like to try but we'll see if I get to it. The real bummer is that at .035" off the lands I'm only .100" too long to fit in a mag.

The word "clicker" comes from case being tight so the primary extraction is difficult and the bolt clicks pretty hard. Like you said, this is caused by cases not being sized enough for the chamber near the base of the case. The spec for chambers and dies coming from Hornady have caused this problem a few times.

Yes in F class they are shooting at a .5moa target basically. When I say the barrel is toast at 800 or so rounds... that doesn't mean it might not still shoot good but it won't be good enough for F class.

My buddy Johns guns.... he has yet to have one of his 7/270wsm barrels make it to 900 rounds. Usually toast at 800ish. He can clean the barrel and it might hold accuracy for about 10-15 rounds but he won't get 60-80 rounds in a day out of it anymore due to the fouling and how rough the bore is.

The double click also can be from the load being to hot.

Also some guys are making the chambers too tight back at the base. This will also cause the clicking as well and it might not just be a sizing die issue.

This is why we are doing the ammunition pressure test barrel. Being as there is no actual load data with a baseline for what is going on pressure wise. Hornady, Sierra and us have a vested interest in the pressure. It will give us a solid foundation for what is max load. Like I said it's probably the most popular round in F class right now.