7mm SAW

[davethedog]

How much would I be neutering this cartridge if I tried to stuff it in a Model 7 action?

If it would work, what bullets are going to be best to keep me close to 2.8 OAL?

don’t. Even with the type 1 reamer you’re going to be pretty far off the lands unless you’re using hunting soft pointed bullets, in which case, why?

This SAW thrives with 162 ELDm/x and 166 a tips. You’re not going to get the advertised speeds stuffing the round that far down. I crunch powder at 2.975 COAL as it is.

 

[davethedog]

Thanks. That's what I was thinking. I was hoping to fit a 7mm, specifically the SAW, in this action for some longer range hunting.

I don’t know what your action is like but I milled my tenacity to fit long COAL from a DBM. Took .115” out from the magwell at 22.5 degrees so there was still a mild “ramp”. If your action will allow it I think that’s a viable path and a very easy job for any gunsmith with a carbide endmill. .195” may be cutting it close though.

 

[davethedog]

Anyone tried N540?

 

[Simia Dei]

Is anyone running any of the 7SAW wildcats? 25 SAW etc?

 

[fmillik]

Anyone have the proper case length to trim to?

 

[mustang-cars]

Anyone have the proper case length to trim to?

I believe it’s 1.920
I’m on a work trip and away from my notes but I believe min. Is 1.910 and max is 1.920

 

[fmillik]

I believe it’s 1.920
I’m on a work trip and away from my notes but I believe min. Is 1.910 and max is 1.920

Thanks, so it would be the same as a 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[mustang-cars]

Thanks, so it would be the same as a 6.5 Creedmoor.

Yes if my previous statement is correct. I don’t have my notes with me like I said. Maybe someone will be along shortly who has their notes to look at. If not I’ll be home next week and can confirm 100%

 

[fdkay]

So, how well does this work with the 162's in a Remington short action?
I get pretty good velocity with a standard 7-08 and 65 staball powder

 

[mustang-cars]

So, how well does this work with the 162's in a Remington short action?
I get pretty good velocity with a standard 7-08 and 65 staball powder

What’s pretty good velocity?

 

[fdkay]

What’s pretty good velocity?

close to 2800 fps

 

[mustang-cars]

That’s pretty good. I would probably just stick with that. I run mine at 2750. I could go higher but then I start getting pretty compressed. You might be able to get to 2850 but the extra 50fps probably isn’t worth ot

 

[b6graham]

That’s pretty good. I would probably just stick with that. I run mine at 2750. I could go higher but then I start getting pretty compressed. You might be able to get to 2850 but the extra 50fps probably isn’t worth ot

unless you want to get away from the inconsistency of staball

but you could do that with varget and a 7-08 anyways. you'd just be slower

 

[mpwolf]

I've read this whole thread a couple of times. The concept really intrigues me, not so much in terms of making top velocity, but more about better case design- like the 6.5 creed vs .260. All of my hunting rigs are built on R700's, fed from DBMs, so 2.900 is pretty much max COAL. I would probably be content with a 7 creedmoor, but there's certainly room for more with the sharper shoulder angle of the SAW or Ackley. What's the actual shoulder angle of the SAW? It seems to me the same thing could be achieved by running a 7-08AI reamer in a bit short?

 

[Simia Dei]

If trying StaBall, try MR2000, I had ridiculous results with heavier projectiles (2900fps with the 7SAW and a 175gr berger, 26" barrel). Temp sensitivity was a concern though.

 

[davethedog]

I have tried Varget, N540, N550, RL15.5, RL16, N555, and H4350 with 166 a tips. Seems like I can reliably get 2800fps with n550, a bit slower than that with varget, 2720-2750 with RL15.5 and N540. The rest seem to be too slow or fill too quickly. Anyone else have the same experience? This is in two barrels, a 1:8.7 bartlein m24 24" and a 1:9.25 proof carbon 25".

 

[mustang-cars]

I have tried Varget, N540, N550, RL15.5, RL16, N555, and H4350 with 166 a tips. Seems like I can reliably get 2800fps with n550, a bit slower than that with varget, 2720-2750 with RL15.5 and N540. The rest seem to be too slow or fill too quickly. Anyone else have the same experience? This is in two barrels, a 1:8.7 bartlein m24 24" and a 1:9.25 proof carbon 25".

I get 2750 with 162gr ELD-M’s and 45.0gns of H4350 pretty easily. Haven’t tried anything else. Could go higher if I wanted to be more compressed. But then I get varying seating depths.
Benchmarck 24” 1:8.5 twist

 

[davethedog]

I get 2750 with 162gr ELD-M’s and 45.0gns of H4350 pretty easily. Haven’t tried anything else. Could go higher if I wanted to be more compressed. But then I get varying seating depths.
Benchmarck 24” 1:8.5 twist

I’m running into compression even before then but then again I’m seating 166 a tips deeper to fit mag length. What’s your OAL?

 

[mustang-cars]

I’m running into compression even before then but then again I’m seating 166 a tips deeper to fit mag length. What’s your OAL?

I’m on a work trip and away from notes but I’ll check when I get home

 

[b6graham]

I’m running into compression even before then but then again I’m seating 166 a tips deeper to fit mag length. What’s your OAL?

define mag length?

drop tube?

 

[fmillik]

I have tried Varget, N540, N550, RL15.5, RL16, N555, and H4350 with 166 a tips. Seems like I can reliably get 2800fps with n550, a bit slower than that with varget, 2720-2750 with RL15.5 and N540. The rest seem to be too slow or fill too quickly. Anyone else have the same experience? This is in two barrels, a 1:8.7 bartlein m24 24" and a 1:9.25 proof carbon 25".

I’m thinking of trying N540. What grain weight did you start at? Did you have pressure issues?

 

[davethedog]

I’m thinking of trying N540. What grain weight did you start at? Did you have pressure issues?

I found that it yielded about the same speeds at slightly higher pressures compared to varget. 41.3 with a 166 a tip .150 off the lands got me 2730 in a 25” barrel. I’d start at 40 and work your way up.

IMO, the two best performing powders for the 160s are varget and n550.

 

[fmillik]

Bought my dies, some Alpha OCD 7mm-08 cases to convert, and ordered a 18.5" barrel. Hopefully I can get a rifle put together prior to the hunting season this fall.

 

[RonSwanson_ParkRanger]

I've a Tikka that is ready to be rebarreled - I'm reconsidering this cartridge.

I talked to Clayton last year about it, but I need to give him another call because I was trying to fit it in a extra Model 7 I had laying around.

Curious question: Has anyone loaded 140 class bullets like the Berger 140g VLD or the Sierra 140g TGK? Last time I called Clayton, he said he was liking the 150 ELD-X.

Toying the idea to use them for hunting with a shorter barrel.

 

[Simia Dei]

I've a Tikka that is ready to be rebarreled - I'm reconsidering this cartridge.

I talked to Claytom last year about it, but I need to give him another call because I was trying to fit it in a extra Model 7 I had laying around.

Curious question: Has anyone loaded 140 class bullets like the Berger 140g VLD or the Sierra 140g TGK? Last time I called Clayton, he said he was liking the 150 ELD-X.

Toying the idea to use them for hunting with a shorter barrel.

I'm going to do the same. I'm thinking between 18 - 22" (IBI 22" carbons are decently priced here) and running 150 ELDs, unsure on which powder yet, maybe 2206/H335 or 4895 or perhaps 2208/Varget.

 

[Anb618]

My 7mm SAW II has a 20” barrel. I’m running PVA 151gr Cayugas (copper solids, so not a direct comparison) at ~2760fps over Varget. Haven’t tried anything else in it. I need to find a cheaper bullet in the same weight class for some occasional plinking. As of right now I’ve only used it for hunting.
It worked well on mule deer this past fall, but I ended up not having to stretch it out much. Pretty much any caliber would have worked at the distance I took my shot.

 

[fmillik]

My 7mm SAW II has a 20” barrel. I’m running PVA 151gr Cayugas (copper solids, so not a direct comparison) at ~2760fps over Varget. Haven’t tried anything else in it. I need to find a cheaper bullet in the same weight class for some occasional plinking. As of right now I’ve only used it for hunting.
It worked well on mule deer this past fall, but I ended up not having to stretch it out much. Pretty much any caliber would have worked at the distance I took my shot.

If I can get Nosler 160 gr Accubond to 2600 FPS out of a 18.5" barrel, I'm going to be stoked. I plan on trying Nosler's 150 gr AB as well. I'm trying to make a suppressed mountain rifle that is well-suited for elk out to 400 yards, and I hope to have 1500 ft-lbs of pressure at that distance. (though ~1300 is looking more likely).

McMillan finished my stock last week, and I sent my sako 85 barreled action to LRI this afternoon.

 

[RonSwanson_ParkRanger]

I'm going to do the same. I'm thinking between 18 - 22" (IBI 22" carbons are decently priced here) and running 150 ELDs, unsure on which powder yet, maybe 2206/H335 or 4895 or perhaps 2208/Varget.

Yeah, I'm bookending Clayton's test powder range - I have a bunch of 8208 XBR and some Staball. The 8208 might work with 140s since I've seen 7-08 loads (I'm just not sure how fast I can get it moving) and Hodgdon's Staball data shows it moving pretty darn quick.

I want to get these moving pretty darn quick, so I'll try to steal a little velocity with a slightly longer barrel at 22".

 

[Anb618]

If I can get Nosler 160 gr Accubond to 2600 FPS out of a 18.5" barrel, I'm going to be stoked. I plan on trying Nosler's 150 gr AB as well. I'm trying to make a suppressed mountain rifle that is well-suited for elk out to 400 yards, and I hope to have 1500 ft-lbs of pressure at that distance. (though ~1300 is looking more likely).

McMillan finished my stock last week, and I sent my sako 85 barreled action to LRI this afternoon.

FWIW, my 151gr Cayuga load still shows ~1440ft/lb at 400yds when I reduce speed to 2600fps.
As my load actually is, I’m seeing 1645ft/lb at 400yds.

 

[st1650]

Mine is coming up
Defiane anTI, Manners LRH Stock, Bartlein 5R 9 twist #3 sporter contour, hawkins hunter dbm, not sure yet if I'll run the hawkins flush mags at 2.88in or the mdt/accurate 5 rounds binderless.

Got Alpha 7SAW SRP brass and the Redding bushing dies as well as the LE Wilson Mandrel die.

Planning to use varget with 150 scenar, 150 partition, 162 eldm/162eld-x and maybe 166 atips.
I do have varget, XBR and H4350 on hand but I feel like varget will probably work the best.

 

[st1650]

My smith just chambered it today. Will go out monday to test a few varget ladders and I have some RL17 on hand that I might try with the 162.

 

[st1650]

Just came back from the range.
Wow was an easy caliber to load for. So glad I went with it rather than straight 7mm-08
I did varget for PVA151, Lapua 150, 162 ELD-M and RL17 for 162 ELD-M. All loaded with Alpha SRP brass. Still waiting for my Manners LRH so I put the barreled action in the ARC Xylo which is a great chassis to shoot tiny groups.

I had to use my 7mm-08 seating die since I'm still waiting for my Redding kit.

I loaded the PVA 151 at 2.875 to make them fit the Hawkins 4rnd hunter flush magazine. Best was 1/2 moa at 42.5 ES 12 2815 FPS AVG. I will retest this load this week before I ship the barrel for cerakote.

Scenar 150 I did a varget ladder from 42.0 to 43 and it was pretty bad at 42->42.5 but started grouping at 43.0. So I might do another 42.8->43.5 ladder. They were also seated at 2.875 but I'll load them longer when I get the dies but it does seems like it wanted to tighten up at the end of the ladder.

Best ones of the day were the 162 ELD-M. Ran a ladder 41.5-> 43.0. Accuracy node was at 42.5 which gave 2760 FPS with a ES of 11. Pretty forgiving node as I was shooting 42.3-> 42.8 + a 5 shot group that were all 42.5 and they all had the same poi. That gave me a 2/3moa 10 shot group. Can't really complain out of a 22 3/4in 3B sporter barrel with a bipod and rear bag.

RL17 gave awesome speed and low pressure. It's not temp stable like varget and the POI is way off from the varget loads but could be a good backup if I run out of varget. 46.5 was the flat node and also did +/- 1/2 in group but gave 2820 fps, an extra 60 fps over the varget at about the same pressure.

42.9 started to get sticky bolt for varget and 47.0 for RL17 also getting there. 47gr gave me 2875 fps (!!!) which is crazy out of a short barrel like that, that's straight AI territory but obviously it's not something I would shoot in 100deg weather.

My smith who did the chambering also turned a brand new tikka 7mm-08 into a SAW but he had a scope issue but his first 10 rounds were very promising. His node was at 41.7in and speed at 2675 (Tikka barrels are notorious for being slower) but it showed better than 1/2 moa groups and considering that what he spent on the whole Tikka is less than what I spent on the Defiance action only, pretty good bargain for him.

 

[RonSwanson_ParkRanger]

Just came back from the range.
Wow was an easy caliber to load for. So glad I went with it rather than straight 7mm-08
I did varget for PVA151, Lapua 150, 162 ELD-M and RL17 for 162 ELD-M. All loaded with Alpha SRP brass. Still waiting for my Manners LRH so I put the barreled action in the ARC Xylo which is a great chassis to shoot tiny groups.

I had to use my 7mm-08 seating die since I'm still waiting for my Redding kit.

I loaded the PVA 151 at 2.875 to make them fit the Hawkins 4rnd hunter flush magazine. Best was 1/2 moa at 42.5 ES 12 2815 FPS AVG. I will retest this load this week before I ship the barrel for cerakote.

Scenar 150 I did a varget ladder from 42.0 to 43 and it was pretty bad at 42->42.5 but started grouping at 43.0. So I might do another 42.8->43.5 ladder. They were also seated at 2.875 but I'll load them longer when I get the dies but it does seems like it wanted to tighten up at the end of the ladder.

Best ones of the day were the 162 ELD-M. Ran a ladder 41.5-> 43.0. Accuracy node was at 42.5 which gave 2760 FPS with a ES of 11. Pretty forgiving node as I was shooting 42.3-> 42.8 + a 5 shot group that were all 42.5 and they all had the same poi. That gave me a 2/3moa 10 shot group. Can't really complain out of a 22 3/4in 3B sporter barrel with a bipod and rear bag.

RL17 gave awesome speed and low pressure. It's not temp stable like varget and the POI is way off from the varget loads but could be a good backup if I run out of varget. 46.5 was the flat node and also did +/- 1/2 in group but gave 2820 fps, an extra 60 fps over the varget at about the same pressure.

42.9 started to get sticky bolt for varget and 47.0 for RL17 also getting there. 47gr gave me 2875 fps (!!!) which is crazy out of a short barrel like that, that's straight AI territory but obviously it's not something I would shoot in 100deg weather.

My smith who did the chambering also turned a brand new tikka 7mm-08 into a SAW but he had a scope issue but his first 10 rounds were very promising. His node was at 41.7in and speed at 2675 (Tikka barrels are notorious for being slower) but it showed better than 1/2 moa groups and considering that what he spent on the whole Tikka is less than what I spent on the Defiance action only, pretty good bargain for him.

Did you try any with XBR?

 

[st1650]

Did you try any with XBR?

Unfortunately I was dumb and ran out of XBR and now I can't find it. That would probably work great for the 140-150s.

 

[RonSwanson_ParkRanger]

Unfortunately I was dumb and ran out of XBR and now I can't find it. That would probably work great for the 140-150s.

I just got my action back, so I need to start loading - but, I'm not sure what bullet I want. I've been thinking 140 Berger, 140/150 TGK, or 150 ELD-X.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

tagging in - still thinking about building a short barreled suppressed 7mm hunting rifle.

What is everyone getting for barrel life? 2,500? or more?

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Decided to go with 25 creed. So I have some Redding 7SAW dies going to the classifieds....

 

[Hill Top]

A mate and I recently had a 7mm SAW built each here in Australia, mine is on a Howa/Vanguard action his is on a Tikka with a switch lug both with the long throat, my rifle has a custom bottom metal to take the no binderplate mags

We are shooting 162 ELDM’s and I have tried 165 Sierra Game Changers

My velocities are a bit down on the advised load data from WTO by about 75fps but my barrel is still pretty fresh might speed up a bit yet, my accuracy is a little off what I was hoping, going to try another seating depth test, getting SD around 8 with 46.6gr of ADI 2209 getting an average of 0.5-0.4 MOA, Adam’s rifle seems to be shooting a bit better he has velocities that are closer to the advertised load data and his groups are a bit tighter

I am using a 0.308” neck bushing, and then running a undersize neck mandrel to set neck tension at 0.004”, I was using the 0.311” neck bushing and found the neck tension was to light and the compressed load was causing dramas with maintaining a consistent COAL

I would like to try out the Atip bullet as well

Fun cartridge to load and shoot, I had it built to give my big rifles a break, so I can shoot some volume with a bit of economy

 

[beetroot]

A mate and I recently had a 7mm SAW built each here in Australia, mine is on a Howa/Vanguard action his is on a Tikka with a switch lug both with the long throat, my rifle has a custom bottom metal to take the no binderplate mags

We are shooting 162 ELDM’s and I have tried 165 Sierra Game Changers

My velocities are a bit down on the advised load data from WTO by about 75fps but my barrel is still pretty fresh might speed up a bit yet, my accuracy is a little off what I was hoping, going to try another seating depth test, getting SD around 8 with 46.6gr of ADI 2209 getting an average of 0.5-0.4 MOA, Adam’s rifle seems to be shooting a bit better he has velocities that are closer to the advertised load data and his groups are a bit tighter

I am using a 0.308” neck bushing, and then running a undersize neck mandrel to set neck tension at 0.004”, I was using the 0.311” neck bushing and found the neck tension was to light and the compressed load was causing dramas with maintaining a consistent COAL

I would like to try out the Atip bullet as well

Fun cartridge to load and shoot, I had it built to give my big rifles a break, so I can shoot some volume with a bit of economy

Did your mate get a WTO switch lug for his Tikka?
I'm in NZ and ws quite intrigued by many of the WTO offerings but assumed it'd be too much hassle to get things out of the US.

Did you get your barrels from WTO or just a reamer?

 

[Hill Top]

Did your mate get a WTO switch lug for his Tikka?
I'm in NZ and ws quite intrigued by many of the WTO offerings but assumed it'd be too much hassle to get things out of the US.

Did you get your barrels from WTO or just a reamer?

He got the switch lug from WTO

we ordered brass, dies, reamer and gauges, and Adam got the switch lug as well

We got our barrels locally, mine is a Bartlein 26” #5 with a 8.25 twist

Adam’s is a I think JCE barrel 26” and is a lighter profile than mine

We ordered through Rob Gale, was a long wait for the dies none were on the shelf and the work orders everywhere were blowing out to like we might see dies in a year, WTO ended up doing a set of custom dies for us. Other than that it wasn’t a drama to order from the US

 

[Simia Dei]

Rob is a good bloke. He is also bloody reliable. I had my switchlug installed by Jeff Borg on my tempest. @beetroot, a mate just had a switchlug installed on his LA tikka by Jeff as well, they're obtainable. @Hill Top try some RL16 I'm getting good velocities with it. This is the tempest with switchlug and 2x 7mmSAW barrels (and a clapper 6.5CM)

 

[Hill Top]

Rob is a good bloke. He is also bloody reliable. I had my switchlug installed by Jeff Borg on my tempest. @beetroot, a mate just had a switchlug installed on his LA tikka by Jeff as well, they're obtainable. @Hill Top try some RL16 I'm getting good velocities with it. This is the tempest with switchlug and 2x 7mmSAW barrels (and a clapper 6.5CM)

View attachment 7894525

Jeff built our rifles as well
Both him and Rob are great fellas, they have done a few rifles for me now.

 

[Hill Top]

 

[Simia Dei]

View attachment 7894598

Which stock is that mate?

 

[st1650]

A mate and I recently had a 7mm SAW built each here in Australia, mine is on a Howa/Vanguard action his is on a Tikka with a switch lug both with the long throat, my rifle has a custom bottom metal to take the no binderplate mags

We are shooting 162 ELDM’s and I have tried 165 Sierra Game Changers

My velocities are a bit down on the advised load data from WTO by about 75fps but my barrel is still pretty fresh might speed up a bit yet, my accuracy is a little off what I was hoping, going to try another seating depth test, getting SD around 8 with 46.6gr of ADI 2209 getting an average of 0.5-0.4 MOA, Adam’s rifle seems to be shooting a bit better he has velocities that are closer to the advertised load data and his groups are a bit tighter

I am using a 0.308” neck bushing, and then running a undersize neck mandrel to set neck tension at 0.004”, I was using the 0.311” neck bushing and found the neck tension was to light and the compressed load was causing dramas with maintaining a consistent COAL

I would like to try out the Atip bullet as well

Fun cartridge to load and shoot, I had it built to give my big rifles a break, so I can shoot some volume with a bit of economy

You'll probably get more velocity if you can find some alpha brass with the small primers.

 

[Hill Top]

You'll probably get more velocity if you can find some alpha brass with the small primers.

I am using the Alpha small primer brass, with 46.6gr of ADI Ar2209 (your H4530) I am getting 2840 fps with a 26” barrel, that load had the smallest SD of 8, I can’t hit the advertised 2900 with out obvious pressure signs
My mates Tikka is getting there though, same reamer, same builder same length barrels, same load, my barrel must be a slow barrel

 

[fdkay]

Anyone tried the srp starline match brass?

 

[Hill Top]

Which stock is that mate?

It is from Precision Platforms, a small custom stock builder, buy them through Rob Gale not available in store or online

Heaps better quality and finish over most other carbon stocks

 

[st1650]

Another great lightweight stock that gets overlooked are the wildcat composite. And they’re also available for Tikka inlets.

 

[Simia Dei]

It is from Precision Platforms, a small custom stock builder, buy them through Rob Gale not available in store or online

Heaps better quality and finish over most other carbon stocks

I thought so, I had a chat with Rob about them, the mate with the switchlug tikka is probably going to get one.