8.6 Blk reloading info

[unclemoak]

I've been working on starting to reload for 8.6 blk and figure it would be good to start a thread and share information specific to reloading.

Q has some tech data posted on their website here - https://liveqordie.com/86-technical-data/

Cartridge Print - https://store-fwcq7xdl4a.mybigcommerce.com/content/8.6BLK CARTRIDGE.pdf

Chamber Print - https://store-fwcq7xdl4a.mybigcommerce.com/content/8.6BLK CHAMBER.pdf

The first hurdle was figuring out a way to resize brass since factory brass I'd imagine is a ways out. I did manage to get my hands on a set of prototype 8.6 blk reloading dies that I'll be using.

Left is a Q head stamped piece of 8.6 blk brass, the right is once fired Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor

I noticed at first I was getting some ripples in the neck when I did a full length resize and neck up from 6.5 to 8.6 all in one step.

Running the brass through an Annealeez proved to give much better results when pushing the shoulder back.

 

[unclemoak]

Faxon Released their 8.6 BLK barrels this morning.

https://faxonfirearms.com/rifle-barrels/8-6-blackout/

 

[huntnh]

Keep us posted on progress

 

[RLinNH]

Very interested in this cartridge. What's holding me back is that no dies are available yet. Ammo isn't even available yet. So, I'll keep waiting until at least dies are available. I have some sacrificial 6.5 CM pieces of brass that I can work over. I already have an AR10 builders set that I am anxious to build for this cartridge...

 

[Good12B1995]

I look forward to seeing you post more about this. I am looking at buying some Starline small primer 6.5CM brass so that I don't have to start trying to find and stock large primers. So I hope that this resizing process can be effective and practical.
Hopefully we see dies/brass and/or ammo real soon.

 

[D_Lamz]

Happen to know which powder to use?

 

[ZY100]

FWIW....looks interesting.

 

[RLinNH]

Has anyone heard about dies being available anytime soon?

 

[SkyScrapin]

3" Twist is wild.

Very tempted to call Bartlein for a custom 12" bolt gun barrel.

 

[ZY100]

Not sure what this means for availability....I will email Lee to see if I can get some insight. Is it a web page placeholder...or production planned. I know Lee Pacesetter is not the go to for precision rifle loading....but back in the day I loaded plenty of ammo on them and for $45, they get you up and running...

https://leeprecision.com/pacesetter-dies-8.6-blackout.html

 

[unclemoak]

Has anyone heard about dies being available anytime soon?

I'm about to have a die pre-order available. I have a couple hundred sets being made through Hornady.

 

[unclemoak]

Prototype trim die seems to be working great.

Did a few test cases on my Rockchucker. Need to get my RL1100 setup to start processing brass.

 

[rlsmith1]

FWIW....looks interesting.


View attachment 7879990

I’m surprised the 230 eld x isn’t on that list. Seems like a a bullet that checks a lot of boxes including velocity, BC and minimum expansion velocity. Maybe it doesn’t handle fast twist well which would be unfortunate

 

[unclemoak]

Barrel should be here tomorrow from Faxon.

Shipment of 300gr 338 gr projectiles came in from Mead.

 

[El_Porter]

Prototype trim die seems to be working great.

Did a few test cases on my Rockchucker. Need to get my RL1100 setup to start processing brass.

May I ask where the trim die came from?

 

[unclemoak]

May I ask where the trim die came from?

I had it made. This was one of the sample prototypes, more production units are in the pipeline.

 

[Good12B1995]

Faxon Released their 8.6 BLK barrels this morning.

https://faxonfirearms.com/rifle-barrels/8-6-blackout/

My barrel arrived yesterday and I got started on my build. My Aero handguard regrettably got back ordered because I wanted the enhanced upper for a truly free-floating hanguard. Then the PSA carbine lower I wanted to use wouldn't mate up properly with the Aero upper (front pin slid in fine but rear pin wouldn't go in by hand). So it isn't really close to done but I don't have ammo anyway.

 

[RLinNH]

Once the funds become available, I will be ordering my Faxon Barrel. I already have an Aero Precision AR-10 Builders kit that has been sitting in my safe for quite some time now. I've been waiting for a caliber that would light a fire under me. Well, this one is it. Now we just need some dies...

 

[unclemoak]

My barrel arrived yesterday and I got started on my build. My Aero handguard regrettably got back ordered because I wanted the enhanced upper for a truly free-floating hanguard. Then the PSA carbine lower I wanted to use wouldn't mate up properly with the Aero upper (front pin slid in fine but rear pin wouldn't go in by hand). So it isn't really close to done but I don't have ammo anyway.

Bummer that the upper and lower are having issues.

 

[unclemoak]

A few Faxon barrels arrived today. I got one converted to work in my Lewis Machine and Tool MWS upper. Just have to wait for my Dead Air Primal to come in next week as a place holder for the Thunderbeast 338 can that's coming in a few weeks.

 

[unclemoak]

Getting some cases sized, primed, and ready to load up some 300 gr SMK subs.

 

[unclemoak]

Got a handful of rounds loaded up yesterday.

300 gr SMKs, 16 grains of 1680, CCI 200 primers.

 

[SAUMuvabitch]

Barrel should be here end of week. Hoping to never buy factory ammo. Planning to Pre-order Hornady die set from d.wilson mfg. Only projos I have are Speer bonded 185s. Hopefully bonding keeps them together for fireforming or light subs. Waiting on Maker 350grn projos to come back in.

 

[806guns]

Can we use 308 brass ?

 

[unclemoak]

Can we use 308 brass ?

I’m looking into that over the next few days. I’m told from a source at Q its not correct and by the time you change the case taper, the volume is way off.

What I was planning to do would be to size and trim a handful of different cases in 7.62 lake city, 308 win, 6 and 6.5 Creedmore, and 338 federal if I can find some and then measure the internal volume. Running the data through quick load should be able to confirm the pressure differences.

I’d wager that the 308/7.62 cases are going to have a smaller volume, which would be fine for subs, but could cause pressure issues for supers if the volume difference isn’t accounted for.

 

[SAUMuvabitch]

I’m looking into that over the next few days. I’m told from a source at Q its not correct and by the time you change the case taper, the volume is way off.

What I was planning to do would be to size and trim a handful of different cases in 7.62 lake city, 308 win, 6 and 6.5 Creedmore, and 338 federal if I can find some and then measure the internal volume. Running the data through quick load should be able to confirm the pressure differences.

I’d wager that the 308/7.62 cases are going to have a smaller volume, which would be fine for subs, but could cause pressure issues for supers if the volume difference isn’t accounted for.

My understanding is similar. With the addition of incorrect neck thickness (similar to converting x51 brass to 6.5 Creed.) I am sitting on 240 pcs of Norma brass, so hopefully @unclmoak will do all of the conversion homework for me .

 

[806guns]

I have tons of LC brass. Looks like I might need some 6.5 brass

 

[Good12B1995]

The other question is, will all 6.5 CM brass reshape as well? I haven't done any reforming so I am curious if there is brass we should stay away from. I have a chunk of Sellier & Bellot 6.5 CM brass but some folks in my area don't like to reload it let alone reform it. But for 8.6 BLK I am looking for small primer brass, which means, Lapua, Starline, or Federal. It will be interesting to see if some brass reforms better or some won't at all.

 

[unclemoak]

The other question is, will all 6.5 CM brass reshape as well? I haven't done any reforming so I am curious if there is brass we should stay away from. I have a chunk of Sellier & Bellot 6.5 CM brass but some folks in my area don't like to reload it let alone reform it. But for 8.6 BLK I am looking for small primer brass, which means, Lapua, Starline, or Federal. It will be interesting to see if some brass reforms better or some won't at all.

I’ve converted mostly Hornady brass so far. The biggest impacts to how well it resized is the quality of the brass itself, wall thickness, and how well you anneal it prior to forming it from what I’ve seen.

 

[Good12B1995]

BTW Gorilla Ammunition now has limited quantities of ammo for people who purchased Faxon barrels and have thier codes. $45/box of 20 plus shipping etc. 5 box limit which should let you do a barrel break in, with more ammo to come.

 

[1ronsights]

Has anyone heard about dies being available anytime soon?

On midway, Redding has a full-length sizing die and seating die set that is estimated to be in stock at the end of June.

As ZY100 wrote, a set of dies is also listed on Lee's webpage as "out of stock." However, they do have their factory crimp dies in stock.

 

[ZY100]

Consider ordering from here---support a good guy!

Hornady 8.6

ZY

 

[unclemoak]

I've been busy dialing in brass processing on my RL1100



Aside from that, my large bore can came in today, so I got the rail chopped to fit the shorter barrel.

Got the rifle test fired at the shop, so now I have to drag it out to the range to shoot some groups.

 

[sneakypayload]

Dave, you literally create magic man. Holy shit.

 

[unclemoak]

Dave, you literally create magic man. Holy shit.

I'm fortunate enough to be part of some pretty wild projects. Having a machine shop and a love for guns allows us to create some cool stuff too.

 

[unclemoak]

Some more information on the volume differences between a resized 6.5 Creedmoor case and a 308 case.

I had a friend do some analysis in Quickload after measuring the case volumes.

6.5 Creedmoor Case - Max capacity is 46.60 grains

308 Case - Max capacity 43.30 grains

Results from shooting 300 gr SMKs from factory Q headstamped 8.6 cases loaded with 16 grains of 1680, loaded to 2.750 COAL

 

[RLinNH]

This thread has a lot of good information in it. Anxious to see some load data

 

[SAUMuvabitch]

This thread has a lot of good information in it. Anxious to see some load data

Load data in this thread and on the faxon site.

8.6 Blk reloading info

I've been working on starting to reload for 8.6 blk and figure it would be good to start a thread and share information specific to reloading. Q has some tech data posted on their website here - https://liveqordie.com/86-technical-data/ Cartridge Print -...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Good12B1995]

Some more information on the volume differences between a resized 6.5 Creedmoor case and a 308 case.

I had a friend do some analysis in Quickload after measuring the case volumes.

6.5 Creedmoor Case - Max capacity is 46.60 grains

308 Case - Max capacity 43.30 grains

Results from shooting 300 gr SMKs from factory Q headstamped 8.6 cases loaded with 16 grains of 1680, loaded to 2.750 COAL

lol.. THIS is why I don't reshape cases.. somehow the math of getting a different volume out of two different nearly identical parent cartridges AFTER they have been pretty radically altered, reshaped, renecked, and trimmed down.. I just can't grok it.. if I take a piece of raw steel and beat it into a shape and then take a piece of stainless and beat it into the same shape.. they ARE THE SAME SHAPE.. I am gonna stick with spinning wrenches, welding, and blacksmithing.. and let the smart adults deal with the big brain stuff... smh...
Because I look at the numbers on the load chart and see that the largest load is only 92% of the case volume.. then I math out 92% of the 46.60 6.5 CM case volume and get 42.87 which is less than the 308 case volume of 43.30 and I am like "Sweet I have an extra 0.43 of case volume I still don't even need"
lol.. yup.. the hammer swinging monkey is just gonna stick with smashing bullets down on powder and let the smart folks do the brain stuff, that is fo sho

 

[The King]

I've been busy dialing in brass processing on my RL1100



Aside from that, my large bore can came in today, so I got the rail chopped to fit the shorter barrel.

Got the rifle test fired at the shop, so now I have to drag it out to the range to shoot some groups.

Was wondering how you were gonna fit that on the LM8. lol. Considering doing the same on my LMT, or getting another upper altogether.

 

[SAUMuvabitch]

@unclemoak it seems I missed the Pre-order window...your site shows "out of stock" now and Insta shows you got the Pre-ordered dies in.

Any idea when a restock or another Pre-order will happen?

 

[Yondering]

lol.. THIS is why I don't reshape cases.. somehow the math of getting a different volume out of two different nearly identical parent cartridges AFTER they have been pretty radically altered, reshaped, renecked, and trimmed down.. I just can't grok it.. if I take a piece of raw steel and beat it into a shape and then take a piece of stainless and beat it into the same shape.. they ARE THE SAME SHAPE.. I am gonna stick with spinning wrenches, welding, and blacksmithing.. and let the smart adults deal with the big brain stuff... smh...
Because I look at the numbers on the load chart and see that the largest load is only 92% of the case volume.. then I math out 92% of the 46.60 6.5 CM case volume and get 42.87 which is less than the 308 case volume of 43.30 and I am like "Sweet I have an extra 0.43 of case volume I still don't even need"
lol.. yup.. the hammer swinging monkey is just gonna stick with smashing bullets down on powder and let the smart folks do the brain stuff, that is fo sho

It's a lot simpler than all that really. The capacity will change after the first firing, and then the difference in case volume will be directly correlated to case weight. Measured water volume sounds cool, but is not as accurate or useful due to case spring back (you know how stainless springs back - same idea) and the fact that volume when the case is expanded to the chamber walls is what's important, not volume as it sits on a bench.

I've formed a bunch of 308/7.62 down to 6.5 Creedmoor, back before Creed brass was plentiful. Once I figured out which brass and die worked best, it was very simple. I expect necking the 308 up to 8.6 to be even simpler. Either way they need to be fireformed to get the final body shape.

 

[archetypefirearms]

FWIW....looks interesting.


View attachment 7879990

I just got some of the 8.6 BLK ammo from Gorilla today and figured I would study the load data in the chart to see what I may want to cook up in the future. Having said that, I don't think there's any way the charge for load L0013 is correct. Guessing it should be 20.2 based on the fill% and MV. Am I the only one that noticed that?

 

[SAUMuvabitch]

I just got some of the 8.6 BLK ammo from Gorilla today and figured I would study the load data in the chart to see what I may want to cook up in the future. Having said that, I don't think there's any way the charge for load L0013 is correct. Guessing it should be 20.2 based on the fill% and MV. Am I the only one that noticed that?

Seems a bit low, but L0011 shows 1032 fps with 17.2 gr out of an 8" bbl...so it could be correct.

 

[archetypefirearms]

Seems a bit low, but L0011 shows 1032 fps with 17.2 gr out of an 8" bbl...so it could be correct.

I don't see how it's possible to go from 17.2 gr and a fill% of 62% to 10.2 gr and a fill% of 78% and have the velocity be less, but somehow still faster than L0009 at 14.7 gr.

 

[Yondering]

I don't see how it's possible to go from 17.2 gr and a fill% of 62% to 10.2 gr and a fill% of 78% and have the velocity be less, but somehow still faster than L0009 at 14.7 gr.

You are right; something is definitely off there, and it makes me question the rest of the data too.

I wonder if load 13 was actually VV N32C powder, and they either had a typo, or lost track of which powder was in that load. If it's N32C, that lines up well with load 10 at the very bottom.

Definitely some questionable data, regardless. Work up carefully, fellas. (Well, work up for the supers. Work down for subs. Don't want to stick a bullet in the bore.)

 

[Good12B1995]

You are right; something is definitely off there, and it makes me question the rest of the data too.

I wonder if load 13 was actually VV N32C powder, and they either had a typo, or lost track of which powder was in that load. If it's N32C, that lines up well with load 10 at the very bottom.

Definitely some questionable data, regardless. Work up carefully, fellas. (Well, work up for the supers. Work down for subs. Don't want to stick a bullet in the bore.)

Good plan. The cartridge still isn't SAAMI approved and since that load chart is the only one out there looks like we get to be the guinea pigs for loading these. I just hope my CFE BLK comes out real close.. the burn chart I found shows it down by 2 burn rates from 1680 but I am kinda stuck for now until some more dies come out. I think that everyone underestimated demand for this new round. I just hope that eventually supply will catch up with that demand.
Meanwhile we shoot what we have and reload as we are able and perhaps start some other threads on our builds and our experiences shooting so that this one doesn't get hijacked because we are going to need the information in here.

 

[archetypefirearms]

Good plan. The cartridge still isn't SAAMI approved and since that load chart is the only one out there looks like we get to be the guinea pigs for loading these. I just hope my CFE BLK comes out real close.. the burn chart I found shows it down by 2 burn rates from 1680 but I am kinda stuck for now until some more dies come out. I think that everyone underestimated demand for this new round. I just hope that eventually supply will catch up with that demand.
Meanwhile we shoot what we have and reload as we are able and perhaps start some other threads on our builds and our experiences shooting so that this one doesn't get hijacked because we are going to need the information in here.

I sent a message into Faxon yesterday, but no response as of yet. I'll be sure to post anything they come back with here.

Also agree on working on some loads with CFE BLK due to proximity in burn chart. I think I remember the charge weights being within a grain or so in 300 BLK, so could probably use those ratios as a starting point and ease into it is what I was thinking.

 

[AP2020]

Some more information on the volume differences between a resized 6.5 Creedmoor case and a 308 case.

I had a friend do some analysis in Quickload after measuring the case volumes.

6.5 Creedmoor Case - Max capacity is 46.60 grains

308 Case - Max capacity 43.30 grains

Results from shooting 300 gr SMKs from factory Q headstamped 8.6 cases loaded with 16 grains of 1680, loaded to 2.750 COAL

Great information right here.

I am excited to start this 8.6BLK journey.

 

[ZY100]

Anyone order these yet? About $125 US for 100....

Subsonic 338 Bullet

ZY